IREX Q

[toolate]

Hi everyone! just trying to get some feedback on a few IREX question I can't seem to get my head around... if anyone can help it would be great!

Q1 : "ILS 21 Perth , VH-OZY - You will not be applying the Pressure Error Correction to your altimeter. What is the Decision Altitude and Visibility required for this approach?"

I've checked the AIP ENR1.5 (p12) 1.18.2 "All DA must be adjusted to determine an AOM which accounts for the aircraft pressure error. Operators may apply aircraft Pressure Error Correction (PEC) OR , alternatively, add at least 50ft to the published DA.
Compensation for aircraft pressure error is not required when determining AOM for non-precision approaches"

It's the wording of the question that leaves me puzzled!

If I AM doing an ILS, I should be applying the PEC or, if I don't have this value (or as in this case if I'm not doing so cos the question tells me so!) I should be adding 50 ft to my minima, right??

Or does the question just want to test my knowledge of last part of the AIP reference ("Compensation for aircraft pressure error is not required when determining AOM for non-precision approaches") , and just wants to check that if I don't use the PEC or apply the 50ft increase, I cannot fly the ILS and should revert to the LOC approach and minima??

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Q2 (from the IREX CASA sample questions):
And IFR category flight is approaching an aerodrome at night and is authorized to conduct a visual approach. Radar vector is not available. Aerodrome lighting is listed in ERSA as L1, L4 . The pilot shall not descend below the IFR LSALT or the DME steps until within - "

Could anyone please giude me to the reference for the definition of L1 and L4 lighting?

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Q3 : For an IFR flight landing at an airport in a general aviation control zone SAR watch is cancelled ? Automatically

Could someone provide me with a reference for this? I found Aip ENR 1.1 67.1

67. SARWATCH
67.1 Cancellation of SARWATCH other than SARTIME
67.1.1 Pilots wishing to cancel SARWATCH may do so by reporting to
ATS.
67.1.2 When cancelling SARWATCH, pilots must include:
a. the aircraft radio call‐sign;
b. place of arrival or point from which SARWATCH services are no
longer required;
c. the words “CANCEL SARWATCH”; and
d. when communicating with a unit other than that nominated, the
name of the ATS unit to which the report shall be relayed.

67.1.3 SARWATCH may be cancelled in combination with a pilot report of
changing to the CTAF, or in the circuit area, or after landing.

67.1.4 When the pilot of an IFR flight elects not to report in the circuit area
to cancel SARWATCH and has not reported within 10 minutes of
ETA, ATS will commence communications checks to obtain a landing
report or an extension of SARWATCH.

67.1.5 ATS will acknowledge “CANCEL SARWATCH” reports with a
read‐back of the place of arrival, if appropriate, and the words
“SARWATCH TERMINATED”.

The way I read it there are no exceptions for landing at airports in a general avation control zone... can anyone shed some light?

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Q4: The TAF service provided for a domestic aerodrome with more than 500 movemets per month is?

In AIP GEN 3.5 page 4 the table is based on passengers pa... ?? can anyone help?
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On the same subject Q5: You are planning a flight to Cowra, NSW . The TAF for this aerodrome is :
the answer says "issued every 6 hr and valid for 12hr", but if I look up the ERSA it is listed as a TAF CAT D aerodrome under the MET INFO PROVIDED, and TAF CAT D airports in the AIP are " Routime TAF Service - As determined by consultation with clients . Meteorological watch & amendments service during validity."

...anyone???

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Anyone have a quick fix solution for airframe icing in clouds??
What I'm interested in is on what temperature values the IREX exam is based on !

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Thank you very much for taking the time to read my very long post, and thanks to those who will try helping me out!


Cheers,

Puzzled Pilot

[training wheels]

Q1 : "ILS 21 Perth , VH-OZY - You will not be applying the Pressure Error Correction to your altimeter. What is the Decision Altitude and Visibility required for this approach?"

Or does the question just want to test my knowledge of last part of the AIP reference ("Compensation for aircraft pressure error is not required when determining AOM for non-precision approaches") , and just wants to check that if I don't use the PEC or apply the 50ft increase, I cannot fly the ILS and should revert to the LOC approach and minima??

Yes, that's what I would have answered for this question. Do you have the solutions to the questions? Out of curiosity, is the answer 550 ft and vis 1.9 km?

[toolate]

don't have the solution, but I answered the minima plus 50 ft,and got it wrong!
So my guess (now ) is that I should have just reverted to the LOC minima as you say.

Thanks for the help...keem em coming guys... PLEASE!

[tmpffisch]

Add the 50ft to your DA. So it'd be 300ft, 1.2km vis.
Cant find what L1, L4 is. You'd be looking for an answer such as "until within the circling area or established on PAPI/VASI within 5nm"
GAAP is controlled airspace, with a tower...they know when you land... The reference you posted is for class G airspace.
Cant' help you there
Nor there
I think the BOM site should have some icing info. In general, between 0 and -15deg you're more likely to get clear ice, with rime -15 to -25. But it is also based on the type of cloud you're in. Thicker clouds, with updrafts holding that moisture in will produce bigger droplets and more likely clear ice. Just learn your cloud types.

[toolate]

thanks tmpffisch.

1)I did answer 300ft and 1.2, and got it wrong :o(
2) I'm guessing that the L1 and L4 thing is maybe something that has been removed? as the CASA IREX sample questions are still the same, it wouldn't surprise me
3)Thanks for the answer on the SARWATCH . I missed that part! Thanks a lot!

Really appreciate your help!

[toolate]

By the way training wheels, (http://www.pprune.org/members/25171-training-wheels) 550 and 1.9 km was one of the possible answers...

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Anyone have a quick fix solution for airframe icing in clouds??

Yup! If your aircraft is not certified for flight in known icing conditions then pick the best option of:

1) 180o turn and decend to below the freezing level if LSA allows!
2) Get out of cloud/freezing rain
3) Some combination of 1 and 2.

Dr :8

[tmpffisch]

1)I did answer 300ft and 1.2, and got it wrong :o(


Do you know what the correct answer is?

No reason why you should have to use the LOC approach, VH-OZY has two ILS systems so you should be able to use the special minima but with 1.2km vis.

[43Inches]

Q2 (from the IREX CASA sample questions):
And IFR category flight is approaching an aerodrome at night and is authorized to conduct a visual approach. Radar vector is not available. Aerodrome lighting is listed in ERSA as L1, L4 . The pilot shall not descend below the IFR LSALT or the DME steps until within - "



Lighting definitions used to be in the front of the ERSA.

[ksa5223]

To do the ILS you need to apply Pressure Error Correction PEC, therefore they would be testing your AIP ref. you mentioned and wanting you to use your head and revert to the LOC minima as the questions states we are not applying PEC, hence we can't even do the ILS anyway.

[tmpffisch]

To do the ILS you need to apply Pressure Error Correction PEC, therefore they would be testing your AIP ref. you mentioned and wanting you to use your head and revert to the LOC minima as the questions states we are not applying PEC, hence we can't even do the ILS anyway.


But the options with an ILS is to
A. Add PEC, or
B. add 50ft.

Question said you won't do A, so do B?

[toolate]

Training wheels (http://www.pprune.org/members/25171-training-wheels), 550 and 1.9 km was one of the possible answers to select from.

ForkTailedDrKiller,...yep... not keen on getting into icing conditions either :)

Hi tmpffisch, thanks for your answer, but I was of the impression that the special minima (special Alternate minima )was only for alternate planning purposes...

43Inches: Couldn't find those codes in the lighting definition in ERSA unfortunately

ksa5223, that's the conclusion I got to also, but if you read the AIP (and yes, now I might be reading it carefully) "Operators may apply aircraft Pressure Error Correction (PEC) OR , alternatively, add at least 50ft to the published DA.
The 50ft is NOT the PEC. Yes, ok, it's a value that covers us to get to the same end result, but as the question is telling us that we will not be applying PEC, according to the AIP (reading into it too much now!), we have to add the 50ft.

....?

[training wheels]

But the options with an ILS is to
A. Add PEC, or
B. add 50ft.

Question said you won't do A, so do B?

I'd argue that adding 50ft, is compensating for pressure error as well, albeit in-lieu of having a PEC from the aircraft's operating manual. My instructor has always referred to "adding 50ft" on the ILS DA as PEC. My guess is that this question presumes the same as well, and thus, without adding any sort of pressure error correction, the localiser minima would probably be the most correct answer.

[tmpffisch]

Yeah...could be right there.

Operators may apply aircraft Pressure Error Correction (PEC) OR , alternatively, add at least 50ft to the published DA.

The way I see it (which must be wrong....) is PEC is the actual calculation you'd do, 50ft is the other option (which isn't considered the PEC).

Interpretation of the question could be the problem, but also note that it asks for a DA...not a MDA.

[43Inches]

RE Q1 - I think the poorly worded question is simply asking you to read the chart and apply no correction. The question asks for the decision altitude (DA). The LLZ minima is a minimum descent altitude, MDA not DA as a LLZ is a non-precision approach. Do not get confused with using a LLZ minima after a failed glideslope check as the ILS procedure continuing, it is not, you discontinue the ILS and continue with the LLZ procedure not below the relevent steps.

[toolate]

thanks to everyone so far!
I don't know why but the website wouldn't let me reply to any of your comments!

I really don't like Q1, it's driving me nutz!
...any suggestions for the other questions?

[ZappBrannigan]

Another vote for a poorly worded question, which I hate in exams such as the IREX where all it takes is a slightly mis-worded question to throw you into a world of ambiguity.

The question must refer to the ILS as it asks for a DA, not MDA as would be required for all other approches including a LLZ approach. To take the question absolutely literally, it's the DA and visibility printed on the approach plate - you're choosing not not apply any PEC, regardless of the illegality of this.

Another overly technical question is - is adding the standard 50' adding PEC, or adding 50' in lieu of PEC? This would also affect the question. Edit: seen this has been brought up already...

Unfortunately, it's quite obvious you know what to do with PEC on the ILS - but this won't necessarily stop you getting a question like this wrong on the IREX.

[FGD135]

toolate,

I find Q1 very easy to answer but I have been flying IFR for many years.

The rule regarding the application of PEC (can't give a reference as I don't have the book handy) is:

Thou shalt apply a PEC of 50' for precision approaches unless an alternative figure is published for the aircraft.

So the PEC value that you apply could be anywhere between 0 and 50' and is dependent on the circumstances. Did the exam paper provide all the circumstances? Probably not, as that is why they are EXPLICITLY TELLING YOU TO APPLY 0 (ZERO).

Not a trick question. Poorly worded? Not necessarily.

The real challenge of the question is not the DA but the visibility. The DA you obviously get straight off the plate, but the vis required depends on the circumstances (e.g HIALS available, flight director, autopilot, failure warning system for primary instruments, etc).

Q2: Can't find what L1 and L4 mean. Perhaps these are superceded codes. The correct answer depends on whether there is PAPI/T-VASIS and whether the runway is ILS equipped.

Q3: You must cancel SAR yourself - the tower won't do it for you.

[Tmbstory]

FTDK:

I agree with your comments, in addition, if pilots took more notice of the relationship of lowest safe altitude and outside air temperature, it may give more options as to a level change to a lower one with less or no icing.

Tmb

[grip-pipe]

Too Late - Your AFM or Operations Manual will specify the aircraft altimeter is required to be adjusted for pressure correction, if it is not then what is on the plate is the minima. In the case of this question it is what the minima on the PH plate for that ILS approach is.

L1 and L4 is the level of lighting, irrelevant to the question asked as it you have to have lights they level is not a factor, so you need to be within the circling or area or within 5 nm.

[bentleg]

FGD135 and minger

I think we are getting mixed up here. SARWATCH and SARTIME are different. My understanding and experience is -

Tower automatically cancels a SARWATCH on an IFR flight after landing. (If the Tower is not active of course you have to get onto the area frequency to cancel).

Tower does not like to (will not?) cancel a SARTIME on a VFR flight. You ring CENSAR after landing.

[tmpffisch]

SARTIME - kept with CENSAR, cancelled by you or on your behalf (such as asking another aircraft or ATC to cancel it) after arriving at your airport (or departing IFR without contact with ATC on the ground).
SARWATCH - kept internally with ATC, if they lose radio comms with you and can't find your blip on their radar (if it was even there in the first place) they get panicky.

You can have both SARWATCH and SARTIME at the same time, cancelling one will not cancel the other.

[FGD135]

bentleg, you are correct re the SARTIME/SARWATCH. I was indeed failing to distinguish between the two.