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flyhighspeed300
12th Sep 2009, 21:33
I am looking at doing a flight instructor rating at the start of 2010!

is it the right time to do so!!!
will i get a job/work (paid or unpaid) to teach some students or not?

what is the flying levels like out there for flight instructors who are still FI(R)
what is the level of flying/ teaching students like at the moment?

should i do it?, i don't want to do the extra rating, if it is point less of not getting any work to teach anyone...


+ i have never flown a cessa aircraft, amazing !!! flown lots of other aircraft. PA28, PA28R, L-XL2, BE76 and currently the one i fly is the RAF Bulldog!!!
will it be a hard trainsition to do on the FI(R) course if i have never flown that aircraft?


any feed back would be helpfull!!
I am currently located down towards the south west of england!!!!
I fly every month at the moment, which i currently pay to do so!!!

redbar1
12th Sep 2009, 22:24
Hi FHS300,

I can only answer the Cessna bit of your question:

Almost any "C100-series" plane flies by itself (Not fully loaded 205/6/7's &210's)
The classic trng ac 152/172 will never hurt you unless you force them to do so. (Assuming normal flying skills/airmanship as an FI)

I do not know the market for FI's in the UK, but can only say that having a background as an FI would be a + when shortlisting applications... (Me, that is, I can not speak for others)
Cheers, and best of luck,
Redbar1

PD210
13th Sep 2009, 17:12
will i get a job/work (paid or unpaid) to teach some students or not?


Do not under any circumstances ever, ever offer your services as a Flight Instructor or accept a position with no income.:=:=:=

If you do, you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

flyhighspeed300
13th Sep 2009, 20:30
Its easy to work for free, when you have less than 250 hours and that i could have a licence without a job at the end of the course.

+ how do you get your first job, when so many people are now in the same position as me with a Frozen Atpl licence and i am a year on without any flying job and ratings to renew.

what can you do apart from offer to work for free, until i we unlock are FI(R) rating!!!

one of my main reasons to work for free is that the more hours i have the more an airline or bussiness jet company may take me on, in the further. otherwise i will be sitting around with less and less flying experince as someone else with an instructors job.

you have to do something!!! otherwise you will not get anywhere in the aviation world!!!

sherig
14th Sep 2009, 07:37
Working for free as an FI(R)? Not sure how viable this would be... I started work as an FI(R) in April this year. I instruct 7 days a week at two different clubs and average 40 hours flying a month. The average day is 10 hours long and may consist of 2-3 trips if I'm lucky. A lot of downtime between each trip and a lot of briefing/groundschool which you don't get paid for.

If all I could have got was unpaid instructing work to start with I probably would have done it. But you have to ask yourself this. What will it feel like working for free 2 months down the line?

I think you would very quickly come to resent instructing for free which would probably make you a worse instructor. You also have to consider the dis-service you would be doing to the instructing community who are trying to cut a living doing it.

On a positive note, it is a thoroughly enjoyable way to make a living albeit a hard one... Good luck finding a job in these difficult times if you decide to go for it.

vetflyer
14th Sep 2009, 13:05
No wonder T&C s are so poor:
Mol et al needs more chaps to under value themselves

Please don't work for nothing :mad:

PD210
14th Sep 2009, 15:46
flyhighspeed300,

+ how do you get your first job, when so many people are now in the same position as me with a Frozen Atpl licence and i am a year on without any flying job and ratings to renew

No Sir, it is very simple. You have what's called a little self respect and, equally important in this business, respect for others. They sort of go hand in hand don't they. If you were at my school I'd have zero respect for you I'm afraid. It is what I and countless others would think the same too. You will struggle to be taken seriously by anyone around you if you are teaching for nothing.

There are too many whores prostituting themselves in this industry. Your attitude doesn't really help I'm afraid. Personally speaking, I'm too proud to work for free. I am a current, busy flying instructor and wouldn't dream of doing it voluntarily. But then again, I have never been too desperate to contemplate what you may suggest doing. And if your CV landed on my desk offering your services for free, it would be recycled in a nanosecond.

one of my main reasons to work for free is that the more hours i have the more an airline or bussiness jet company may take me on, in the further.

I guess you have just a little bit more to learn. Don't forget being an FI means you have to teach people how to fly. If you are so concerned about building hours then you may have to think of some other options. It's not all about hours. Sure it helps. Just tread carefully, keep your head held high and, please don't do yourself a disservice and work for free. Remember, you have a blue book now. It's a CPL and it allows you to earn revenue as a pilot...

I wish you all the best

maxdrypower
14th Sep 2009, 19:33
DO NOT WORK FOR NOTHING
DISGRACE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As posted go work for RYR if you have that little respect for yourself.
I for one work as an instructor because I love it and want to continue to do it PAID !! if eejits like you come into our school offering services for free You may disappear never to be seen again . you didnt do your atpls to be an instructor that much is clear and from your attitude here I for one do not think i would like you to instruct me . I had that sort of instructor during the BCPL days and some of them were shxt ,

Fiver says hes integrated

CAT3C AUTOLAND
14th Sep 2009, 19:45
I agree with what was said in the previous post.

You are a professional pilot, with a professional service to offer, have more respect for yourself.

ScamArtist
14th Sep 2009, 20:39
I'm sure the original post is just a wind up but anyway if you're willing to do that then maybe you'd like to buy my job from me.

I'm a PPL instructor earning what I would say is good money in the current climate so I think that 25000 would be a good price, giving you a 100% return on your money in about 12 months or so.

I'll even stay on for an extra few weeks to integrate you into the company.

If you're interested then just PM me!

flyhighspeed300
14th Sep 2009, 21:03
I am not a integrated student!!!

I was told by all my instructors when doing zero to a Frozen ATPL to do an instructor rating when i finish my cpl. however didn't do it. i went on to do my IR rating which i thought was the "big all", a because it costs the most money and you can fly in and above cloud.

however a year on and my view has changed. i want to work in aviation industry, as soon as poss. i work else where, which is in tele sales!!! great!!

if it means that i pay again for a rating to get a job then so be it!!!!
i understand some people think that its wrong because they try to make a living out of it.
but they are still flying, teaching and still learning everyday in there job, where as i am not...

what else can i do, if i am in the south/west of england where there is lots of flying instructors and no jobs!!!

brownbox
14th Sep 2009, 21:25
Hi there

I am just a newly rated FI(R), an older guy but wise. Please do not go into instructing just 'cos you want the hours - go into it because you WANT to TEACH student pilots how to fly and get pleasure in passing on what you know to others who might benefit. I now know that only now am I truly learning to fly by trying to teach and set an example to others. Like the instructors that taught me they set such good examples that I actually aspired to be like them! I would like a job on the flight deck but do not expect the FI rating to get me there just by the hours.

I am lucky to instruct one saturday a week at my flying club, it's busy but I'm starting to like it. I'm totally out of my comfort zone and have difficulty remembering the lesson content but I know I will get better. I used to hang around the club on saturdays, maybe went flying or just sat around. Now I'm flying sometimes 5 hours plus and it's hard work!!!

I know it sounds a bit rich but if I wasn't getting paid I wouldn't do it. After all if we all offered any skills we had for nothing we devalue those skills.

Have a think!!!!

Good luck

vetflyer
14th Sep 2009, 23:00
So do you work in telesales for nothing ?

No?

Well don't do FI work for nothing

There is no difference !!!

:mad:

Cows getting bigger
14th Sep 2009, 23:57
Do not think that you are being paid in kind by building hours. That's the classic "as far as I'm concerned I'm getting paid 150/hr" mentality. Madness. Aviation is a business - take off those rose tinted spectacles.

Brownbox has it absolutely right. Instructing is about bettering yourself and your students, not about putting a few more lines in your logbook.

Duchess_Driver
15th Sep 2009, 08:32
Slight pedant mode, but instructing is about developing the skills in your student and making him or her better. Pure and simple.

If you become a better pilot by doing so then that is an added (and often realised!) bonus. :ok:

People say don't teach for free - but what about all those people out there with FI ratings and no CPL's......????

GearDownFlaps
15th Sep 2009, 17:47
Definately a wind up

"I was told by all my instructors when doing zero to a Frozen ATPL to do an instructor rating when i finish my cpl. however didn't do it. i went on to do my IR rating"

why would you go on to do one if you have an fatpl you already have one??

then we have the clincher

"a because it costs the most money and you can fly in and above cloud."

You spent 55 hrs doing an IR and you think that is the priveliges it affords you ????? you can do that with an IMC you should have saved yourself ten grand .

TROLL !!!!!

philc1983
15th Sep 2009, 23:11
I'm a very mild tempered bloke and while i empathize with your situation i must add that if you were to instruct for free near where i work i would be forced to break your legs!! Seriously. It would be money out of my pocket.

Captain Stravaigin
16th Sep 2009, 01:40
In Economic terms this is the same argument that Unions use to preserve wage levels.

It is also the same argument that suggests Child Labour is corrupt and exploitative whilst taking employment from men with families to feed.

The problem for the unfortunate is what is the alternative ?

Having a Licence and a Job it is only natural to want to protect that hard earned wage. It is also the equivalent to "Pull the ladder up Jack - I am OK"

Society is not fair. Breaking someone's legs may not be the best solution.
:uhoh:

BubbaMc
16th Sep 2009, 07:20
Here's something to think about - get a day job and instruct on weekends. I think you'll find it much easier to get work if you only want to work during the busiest time of the week. A lot of schools here are under staffed on weekends.

flyhighspeed300
16th Sep 2009, 20:29
thanks for all the replys!!

i will make up my mind later towards january to do the FI(R). will also look and email any flying schools in 60 miles from me to find of if they need any intructors then i will do the rating.

what i don't want to do is have a FI(R) without a job, otherwise the rating is pointless if i cannot teach anyone!!! if i can get a job and get paid that sounds as a bonus.


one more question.
what do you think about doing an instructor rating in America.
but also with getting 200hrs of instruction time, teaching new jaa ppl student.

?

i am thinking of it in america, due to getting the extra hours, Yes they will be working for free again!!!

but it will give me some instructing time, something i could find hard here to get a Fight instructors job in the uk as a new instructor...

what do you think
otherwise i will be looking at doing the FLight instructors rating at BCFT at bournemouth airport..

brownbox
16th Sep 2009, 21:20
Why on earth would you want to go to uncle sam when you train to a v high standard with auntie carol at egsl in real brit weather. Puts you in good scenarios when you have to consider teaching students. IMHO you always get what you pay for on any training. Do not skimp at this stage!

Mickey Kaye
17th Sep 2009, 07:03
FlyHighSpeed300

I wouldn't do the instructor rating at the end of the summer season. What ever the state of the economy there will be less work over winter than the summer. Therefore I would aim to be up and running as an instructor for the start spring.

I would also shop around a bit FI course wise and try and find out which places offered there students jobs at the end of it.

As for getting a job well the best well is to network. It's not the best FI that gets the job its the one who is in the CFI face when a job becomes available.

So get into sitting around at aerodromes and chat to the boys at the bar. Find out who may be about to move on etc

My final tip would be to concentrate all your efforts at the place you would most like to work/is the busiest/pays the most.

There is nothing worse than getting you first job only to fly 24 hours in your first 6 months of employment

chrisbl
17th Sep 2009, 17:24
Dont email the schools either, it justs get treated as spam. Go and talk to people but saying things like if you give me a job I will get the FI rating wont work.

Travel around, listen to what real people have to say and then make your own mind up as to whether it is worthwhile making the effort to get the rating.

You never know, you might be assessed as an ideal instructor or someone might tell you you have no chance because your personality is against you.

Dont rely on the forum.

Capt Loop
17th Sep 2009, 18:19
Do your instructor rating if you are passionate about flying and want to give someone the gift of being able to fly an airplane. Dont do it if your looking just to build hours. :=

I work in a very busy flight school and there are two types of instructors. The mature instructor that wants to impart his knowledge and inspire student to fly.

The others are instructors waiting to get picked up by a airline and just do the minimum instructing.........

Its VERY VERY hard to get a job as a new instructor especially with NO instructor experience. It took me a year and a lot of networking. The school that taught me couldnt offer me a job, but they did help me in giving me contacts and suggesting schools to contact.

FlyingGasMain
2nd Oct 2009, 19:57
I think you can be both things ie. someone who enjoys teaching people to fly, and someone who is hoping to build their hours up with a view to flying bigger stuff. Lets face it, GA instructing is very poorly paid and that's one big reason a lot of people look to move on. My ideal scenario would be to have a job working for an airline or a bizjet operator and be able to do some instructing part-time. Best of both worlds !