Handling charges

[equine rotorhead]

Forgive me if this has already been done in the past, I'm sure it has, but very recently an aircraft was handled at a London Military Airport.The compulsary handling agent charged £30.00 administration fee for the catering, this consisted of walking out to the aircraft with a tray of catering (not provided by the handling agent I might add). A £12.00 charge was also made for the Newspaper selection, these were The Herald tribune £1.50, Wall Street Journal £1.50, FT £1.00 Times 65p, Metro free and the Telegraph 70p. That adds up to £5.35 leaving a mark up of £6.65 (maths class finished). I realise that you have to take into account delivery etc. but when you appear to have a closed shop with compulsary handling.....monopoly???.
Of course the answer is to get the papers elswhere, but if the schedule precludes this your stuck. I apologise if this seems a bit trivial but I get fed up with Biz Jets getting ripped off.
Rant over.

[x933]

Cry me a river. There's a catering company round these parts that charge you £50 for delivery - but then deliver to 3-4 aircraft at once. £200 up before you consider the margin on the food...i'm in the wrong business :}

[Flintstone]

Ooooh, good. A rant thread.

Olbia. Land of the 50 Euro lemon.

[dynamite dean]

how about ...£1725 for handling without catering and not including the £1100 parking fee at a certain london airport ..

sure glad im not paying!

[merlinxx]

Don't use Northolt ! Always check ahead what any charges to expect, to be sure this is good Flt Dept management is it not ? If you,or your Ops/Commercial folks hadn't checked, then deduct from their pay check (or yours if it was you):ugh:

[equine rotorhead]

Quite agree Merlin, we do know the charges and they get passed on accordingly and we always try and avoid Northolt at all costs but when the client wants it, our hands are tied. My point was that it's a shame to be 'ripped off' on our own soil by a handler who would appear to be abusing the mandatory handling rule when no other handler is available.

[His dudeness]

An old tradition, the ripping off.

Regarding the newspapers I have found out that a lot of handlers seem to have an agreement with the news stand owners, they like to deliver yesterdays papers at a premium. But then it seems to be my fault cause I did not say "TODAYS NEWSPAPERS" please... being fed up and walking to the news stand myself I sure enough find todays papers tucked under the old ones. Happend often to me in France, Italy or Spain...

At least one gets a bit of service at Northolt or the like. Looking East is where I get really angry - the worst imaginable service plus the highest fees.

Like Ust-Kamenogorsk, where the 'Handling' agent does not bother to translate at imigration, leaving it to me to explain the officers that crew does not need visas (thank god I have feet and hands to explain with!) and simply does nothing at all - except eat out at the Hotel at our expense.
Without our companies secretary in Alma Aty I´d probably be still there...

Then the bill arrives and adds up to sumthin around 3000 quid....probably a years wage at Ust-Kamenogorsk in Kasachstan...

Thats why I love all the guys in management that tell me my wage is to high.

What I also love is the introduction of the 'infrastructure fees' at certain airports like Cologne - they argued about having to have freight/baggage handlers belts, CatIII etcetc. When I told them that we don´t need all of that crap they simply did not bother to answer any more.


I want a monopoly too. Must be great to be NOT on the receiving end of one.

[equine rotorhead]

Apologies, but my last post was incorrect, according to the RAF, handling is not compulsary at Northolt. Passengers have to be screened by the Jet Centre at a cost of around £70.00 but if they are just wanting to go straight to the aircraft then NJC handling is not required so no other charges should apply. We shall see.

[Miles Magister]

That is so. I have been there many times without using handling.

Just be prepared not to receive any help from the staff by the door if you need it, but I never had any problems.

MM

[Kelly Hopper]

I have said for years that if I ever lose my medical I will start a handling agent. It has to be the easiest job in aviation for the best money.
In fact why am I waiting to lose my medical? I could do it now! :confused:
So where is the best place to have an agent that needs one and where there is either none or such a bad one I can put him out of business?
Nice? Yes obviously but with the French being French, not a chance!
Northolt? My hair is too long!
Biggin? Too political.

I have some ideas actually. Any suggestions?

[equine rotorhead]

Kelly Hopper, how about LCY? I've just been told by them that they also charge £30 to 'walk' the catering out and their charge for 4, yes 4 papers is £20.:bored:
Can I work for you??

[FL470]

Why don't you try Vnukovo? Its' about time that there is a decent handling agent...

[Call Sign Maverick]

Dont let the person who brings the papers and food out to the aircraft stand next to your craft to long. - as you will probley get charged peek time parking fees for that person to stand on the apron for a few mins.
London City = ££££££££££££££££££ god help us in 2012 , they will bend us right over

[merlinxx]

I have a long history of signing up FBOs/Handlers for my past company, I had a very large global network. A heck allot of vetting and auditing took place.

Yes I agree location by location differs in cost and service delivery standards,
the largest purchasers of the services have the clout to verify reasonable costs etc.

Where there is a monopoly (normally by state or local airport edict), search for an alternative location. It takes time and research by either you as crew, or by your Flt Dept personnel.

All comments should be funneled back to a central person and acted upon.

It takes so little time to make an impact about over charging, slip shod service etc., if the industry media, and associations are involved. EBAA Airports and Handling Committee either direct or via BBGA in the UK, or NBAA Inl't Operators Committee or Schedulers & Dispatchers Committee, and of course your own national association if you have one.

Also folks, do throw your comments via the AIN & EBAN surveys.

Things sometimes seem "I'm getting shafted again" but if you don't make the effort to try and change, who the **** is gonna ?

Good luck chaps & ladies:ok:

PM if you want any further background, and no I'm not a provider:{

[themoonsaballoon]

Here is a little background to the fees at a 'certain London Airport' with a short runway, the only way to keep the Airport open to Business Aviation is to charge Airline fees for everything and justify the use of the space, if the handler were not profitable then the business case for building new stands over the dock at £30 million for the Airlines could not be made and the concrete used for BIZ AV would become Airline stands (agreed this would be post credit crunch)
And before you ask no I dont work for the AIrport!
Just think of the big picture a little.
TMAB

[FlyingGasMain]

Well, Northolt and London City handling are done by the same outfit, which partly explains why the costs are so steep at both. Next time we go to Northolt we're going to experiment with just using the RAF. The RAF fees for using the place are pretty extreme, so if you add on handling by the Northolt Jet Centre as well, you are talking one big bill ! Its not like the pax lounge is that nice anyway.

[hawker750]

Handling Charges

Most operators get pretty annoyed by high charges for poor service but are happy to pay reasonable prices for good service. This is a point to watchout for: when the airport landing and parking fees are included on your handling bill check that the airport charges are as published by the Airport Authority. Some handling agents charge more than published but do not tell you and there is no indication of this on the bill. When one goes into London's main airport and has to pay £1,500 for landing and parking, to pay an extra 15% for the priviledge of just paying it to the handling agent is pretty galling. Just say you will pay direct to the Airport Authority, they will eventually send you a bill. Although the handling agent will probably say you HAVE to pay the airport charges to them this is NOT the case.
Other places (like Munich) show a 10% disbursement of landing fees on their bill, but the landing fee office is just next door so just take an extra few minutes to pay the airport direct.
Let's have some feed back on this thread about other airports and ways to keep the charges down. Let's face it we are the customers and I feel that some organisations use us as cash cows.
The one thing we can all help each other with is tips and pointers about using certain airports WITHOUT the use of a handling agent. We go to Africa a lot and apart from the obvious exceptions (Lagos!) we do not use a handling agent, I cannot see the point of being presented with a bill for $2,000 when all he has done is write out a bill for $2,000!

[READY MESSAGE]

Last time I used Northolt was at a weekend. I'll not make that mistake again. Landing/handling bill added up by the extremely pleasant young RAF lady only to find a 50% surcharge for coming in on a saturday! No warning....just there it is on the bill.....:eek:

[hawker750]

Weekend/night time surcharges.

Why? and why do we put up with it? Because we do not make enough fuss, our trade organisations do nothing, but the main reason is that they can get away with it. I do not think the travelling public would accept a 50% surcharge on his air ticket for flying on a Saturday so why do we accept it. What is the reason for a surcharge, we are in a 24/7 industry?

[AircraftOperations]

65p for a Times? Bargain.

[dynamite dean]

Yep I see the bigger picture alright, some are coining it in big time. Just the like a lot of the African airports were no different in reality same dynamic at work - charge what you can when you can . Thats all it is. That why were pilots not aircraft owners who can afford all of this. Carry on best of luck to all that foster the spirit of business!:E

[PrivateFly]

On the surface the handling charges at RAF Northolt do seem very high, however if an accountant was to look into this, the picture could look very different...

The rent charges (to become the only handler) at RAF Northolt cannot be cheap... The MoD insist on a large number of handling and security staff to be on duty at any one time to fullfill the contract. No catering vehicles are allowed airside due to new MoD regulations and all catering must be stored in approved fridges then security screened before being delivered to the aircraft.

All in all any military airport is an expensive location to run a business from. Add in the recession and the vastly reduced number of slots being taken at Northolt (no slot requests are being refused at the moment, the uptake is that low!) Actually with all that in mind a £30 handling fee for catering doesn't sound like enough to break even!

And here is another angle. One of our clients recently left a bag behind in the lounge at Northolt. The Jet Centre took full responsibility for their staff not checking the room after the pax left and flew the bag to Nice on the next BA flight (together with a member of their staff). Quite exceptional customer service and I doubt that other FBOs in London would do the same?

[READY MESSAGE]

And another thing.....

Why should anyone have to pay 'out of hour charges' for handling at a 24/7 airport where they have made handling mandatory.... I don't mind paying for a service but hate being ripped off!:mad:

[FBOman]

The FBO probably doesnt want to handle you out of hours but is made to by the airport? That means that they will have to pay overtime/stand by allowances to their staff and all that stuff. If they are made to pay this surely it is reasonable to pass it on?

FBO's generally are not huge earners. Focus on the landing fees, thats where the money goes. :ok:

[cambioso]

"Focus on the landing fees, thats where the money goes".

You are bloody joking.........................

Since when have the airport landing fees EVER represented more than 20% of the total bill for "handling", and other "services"???!!!

Paphos Total bill 2,494 Euros - Landing fee 86 Euros
Madrid Torejon 668 Euros - Landing fee 127 Euros
Olbia 499 Euros - landing fee 66 Euros
Bremen 435 Euros - landing fee 85 Euros

That's just in the last 3 weeks!

Most handling agents are a law unto themselves and can charge all manner of hidden (un-communicated to the crew) charges that only appear on the bill at the end when you have 3 minutes to settle up before the Boss arrives (early of course) and you have no option but to pay and try and claim back (yeh right!) later.
Handling Agents do have their uses, BUT, their charges are (in many cases) both fictional, and criminal in our opinion.

[beachman]

Spot on, Jez. FBOman's username says it all.

[hawker750]

FBOman
You totally miss the point. Why in a 24/7 industry do handling staff expect to be payed overtime to work after 8 PM? I'll bet no airline surcharges it's passengers for night flights and I know not of any airlines who pay their aircrew 50% extra for working after 8. There again, I have been known to be wrong. I recently wanted to go into Gatwick at 11pm on a Saturday evening and leave 11 am next morning. CREW ONLY. The only task asked for was to pick up the crew in a bus and drop them off the next morning. Quoted £600 for handling. Declined the kind offer.

[READY MESSAGE]

FBOman -
You missed my point, or I didn't make it clear. Why should there be out of hours charges for being handled at a 24 hour airport where handling is mandatory? As for landing fees outweighing handling fees....have you seen many landing/handling receipts recently?
I even had a 2.5% credit card surcharge from one UK FBO recently.
:ugh:

[hawker750]

I even had a 2.5% credit card surcharge from one UK FBO recently.
You do not have to name them, but which Airport?

[Tmbstory]

In the past I used to operate a Corporate Jet into and out of Narita. The total cost for a landing and a departure and the agent, was three thousand US. dollars. Good service though.

Tmb

[bizjetbus]

£130 parking fee, per hour (that's £3120 per 24 hours for those of us who are not so good with numbers). On a ramp that now days is mostly deserted. $10.000 + for parking and handling for a couple of days or so at an airport far far away.

If you need to ask for the price then.....etc etc.

[FBOman]

Im not sure that I missed the point, I think that we are looking at the same point from different perspectives.

Of course airlines do not surcharge passengers for night flights because a large bulk of their business is night flights, the pax have all bought a ticket and crew have been rostered. No problems here.

FBO's that reside on 24/7 airfields generally have nil business between about 2200-0600 and therefore do not roster staff as it is not cost effective. The airport make handling mandatory, not the FBO. I promise you that FBO's do not want the problem of staffing during the night. The HSE now insist on nobody working alone and all that nonsense so you need a minimum of a couple of staff. They have to be paid overtime as they generally wont work for free and have not been rostered. On top of the overtime you have to actually ask someone to be on call and not drink etc so standby payments kick in.

All I am saying is that from a business perspective an out of hours fee at an FBO can actually be explained. I agree that some FBO's charge nonsensical fee's for all manner of things and that is wrong. Personally, I have always published my fee's and charges each year via website, sent them out to each operator by way of letter and emailed them also to regular customers. Nothing hidden, all very transparent. Did you enquire about the fees before you went to any of the places commented on above? Did you look at their Acu-Kwik entry or similar?

Some of the comments on here are valid and some are not. My view is simply that if I provide a good service then people are generally happy to pay the bill. If I dont then they should not be asked to pay and the FBO deserves all the criticism in the world.

[500 above]

G'day Jez

Can you e-mail or pm me that Paphos invoice? That sounds way off the mark... At least you got away with the bus fees. I will take the issue up for you here with Skylink if you want. Hope all is well otherwise mate.

Looking forwards to our next kebab and beer together here (if the boss can afford the handling!)


Regards