BBJ/ACJ with ETOPS 180...

[AussieAndy]

Good morning...

Are you aware of a BBJ/ACJ Operator with ETOPS 180 approval?

OR...

Has anyone ever planned a flight from Auckland to Hawaii then to west-coast USA within 120 ETOPS.

Any help/advice is greatly appreciated!

AA.

[drifter3]

Hi AA,

Privatair's BBJ's has 180 min ETOPS. When they had ACJ's it was only 120min.

Cheers
Drifter3

[singpilot]

Steve Wynn's BBJ routinely does Macau-LAS at LRC. It is 'privately' operated, and was at one time on a FAR125 cert.

It seems to me I heard that it may have 'migrated' to a Macau Reg. To make things 'easier' regulatorily-wise.

I have also departed Macau within 5 minutes of this flight in a G4, ran at M.80 to PANC, refuelled, and continued to LAS arriving within 5 minutes of same nonstop flight. Sometimes earlier, sometimes later. We were at FL410 and above, they were at FL310 and sorta above.

[Spooky 2]

Generally speaking corporate operators are not candidates for ETOPS. There really is no reason for this authoriztion in the first place and unless you were to carry two (not one, but two mechanics), with you so as to comply with two man maintenance issues I do not see how you could be in compliance. Nothing to keep you from complying with any number of ETOPS requirements but the actual certification and compliance would be very onerous if not impossible for the traditional BBJ operator.

ETOPS is pretty much designed for an airline with known maintenance facilities, routes and aircraft specific training programs. Take a look at Advisory Circular AC120-42B to see some of the issues at hand.

[4HolerPoler]

Great response Spooky - pretty much sums it up in a nutshell.

4HP

[specialbrew]

Believe GlobalJet Lux just been granted 180 min for BBJ/Airbus/Global fleet

[Spooky 2]

Not familiar with this operator but I assume they are a scheduled or charter operator and not a traditional corporate operator?

[AircraftOperations]

Corporate operator who manage and operate all kinds of jets for private and charter usage. Anything from private 767s down to light jets.
Whether the 180mins applies to public charters is another matter.

[compressor stall]

There is an ACJ / 319 in Australia operated under 180 minute ETOPS (EDTO under Australian rules) under charter operations.

Spooky - I beg to differ that ETOPS is designed for airlines only. There is nothing to stop a charter operator achieving same. A couple of difficulties, but not impossible.

[Buzzz]

I think when Spooky refers to 'airlines' that also encompasses the charter side, be it airliners or charter operators of business jets. Operators of purely corporate nature do not have to adhere to ETOPS regulations, although that does not stop them from adopting 'best practise' operations.

If just talking about US based operators then ETOPS is more restrictive for the 'airlines', i.e. 121 operators as the starting point is the 60 minutes, whereas for the the 135 operators its 180 minutes.

Buzzz

[BizJetJock]

Under EU-OPS the rules are different for aircraft with less than 19 pax. The starting point is 120 mins, with a possibility of extension to 180 mins. There is nothing actually laid down about requirements for the 180 mins approval, you just have to satisfy your local CAA that yuo can operate safely. I think this is what GJL have got.
For private ops there is no laid down distance from alternate. A lot of operators out there who haven't even thought about what is or is not sensible - they only look at distance to destination as if there were alternates every few miles..:eek:

[Celestar]

Under EU-OPS, aircraft of more than 45.3T are limited to 60min (1.245)without ETOPS approval (1.246).
If you operate commercialy any BBJ/ACJ, ETOPS is a must.
As said above, it's up to local CAA to give an approval, that can start as low as ETOPS90.

[monkey_wrench]

I believe Comlux are 180 ETOPS Approved on their A319 and are getting 180 Minutes approval for their A318 Elites.