PPL - How Long?

[Psims]

Hello all,

I'm planning to do a PPL (JAR 45) at either Wycombe Air Centre or Denham.

Can anybody give some lights with regards to their instructors and ground studies' quality?

I work every Mon-Fri from (9.00-17.00), so realistically I won't have much chances of flying apart from Sat and Sun. How long can it take me to finalise the PPL considering these limitations?

I look forward to hearing from you guys.

Chers

[AlphaMale]

Depends on the weather more than anything else.

I can assure you that we've not had 'flyable' X-Country weather for the last 3 Sundays on a trott in my area :ugh:

[PilotPieces]

From personal experience I would work on 50% of your booked lessons not happening. Or 50% happening if you are a glass half full person :}

[sprthompson]

I'm doing my PPL at Wycombe Air Centre.

I work mon-fri 9-6 in central london so have no chance to fly in the week, so have been flying on weekends. Although the weekends are busier it's not too hard to get lessons booked when you book in advance, though I've usually been fine booking just a few days before! The only difficulty with weekends is that the instructors usually have 1 weekend day off - to counter this I have 2 instructors one who is in on Saturdays the other is in on Sundays.

I had my first (trial) lesson in February of this year, since then I've done 14 hours (and just went solo =] ), usually doing an hour each fortnight. I've only ever had one lesson cancelled due to weather, they called me in advance to say I could fly if I was in an hour earlier, however I could not make it.
I presume that as I progress the more solo, and away-landings may mean it's harder to book slots and more likely that weather will interfere, but so far so good.

The instructors I fly with are both very good, and the others I have met are also very friendly people and I presume teach just as well. They are very professional and keep you on your toes but at the same time very easy to get on with and fun to fly with.

The airfield is very busy with gliders and helicopters - and has a tower so you have to learn the R/T from the start, also there is a mix of both grass and tarmac runways to keep things varied. (not sure how these points compare to Denham.)

The circuit on rway 27 takes about 10 mins due to noise abatement zones (and seems to be the rway in use 90% of the time!), 06 circuit is a lot quicker. I don't know if denham has a quicker circuit, which would mean you get more touch and goes in an hour lesson. (though the 10 min circuit is good when you start circuits as you get a chance to think things through..)

I have no experience with the ground school but it's timed so I would be able to attend if I leave work a bit early.

Obv. no experience with denham but those are my thoughts about WAC. I'm liking it and if you are in a rush to get your PPL you should be able to cram in more hours than I have done. (could probably have done 45 by now if I'd been doing sat & sun flying every weekend, or more than 1 hour per day)

[Psims]

Hello guys,

Thank you for the feedback.

I have total flexibility to do one or more hours ot the weekend so hopefully will be looking to finalise the PPL in 8-10 months.

I´ll be commuting from London (Chiswick) as well SPRTHOMSON, maybe we will share a couple of journeys as soon as I start.

Cheers

[foxmoth]

If you can do it I would try and book 3 x 1 hour lessons each day with a couple of hours between each, pretty much takes over your w/e if the wx is OK but makes for better progress and you could finish in about 3 months if you were lucky with wx - even quicker if you were REALLY lucky, but October/November are not usually the best months in the UK!!:\

[Nibbler]

Hiya Psims

Being realistic, 45 hours at 1 hour a weekend (assuming you book both days and loose 1 to weather) is going to take you almost a year. As 45 hours is a minimum requirement with most people requiring around 55 hours and the more limited availability of aircraft at the weekend (especially for the longer navigation and solo cross country flights), plus the probability of the whole weekend lost due to weather and getting good enough weather for your QXC and test - I'd suggest up to 2 years.

As foxmoth says trying to complete a few lessons in one day might speed things up but I doubt 3 lessons a day is wise given the learning work load. The school might not allow it or have the aircraft available to accommodate. Winter weather in the UK has been good for flying over the last 2 years with the worst months being at the start of the year.

One really good way to speed things up would be if your employer will allow you to take an extra day off each week as holiday over a protracted period - say 10-15 weeks? Week days are quieter so a better chance of the 2 lesson day. Taken with the weekend you could complete in a year.

Good luck!

[foxmoth]

Did mine (many moons ago now!) on a Cadet scholarship at 3-4 hours/day, 5 days/week, took 5 weeks with delays because of wx (very hot summer so very poor viz and no horizon with high pressure heat haze) - only a 35hour course in those days though, not a problem if you take the break I suggested between, most lessons build on the last until you get to circuits and then there is not a lot of new stuff until the post circuit lessons, once you get to Nav you may then need to cut down to 2 lessons/day because of the prep work/time, but by then you are near the end anyway. May also need some swotting for ground exams during the week.

[liam548]

Im not in your situation as work shifts and have at least 4 days free per week when I can fly, these can be during the week but even with this it has taken me just over 12 months. Ive had about 1/3 of my lessons cancelled due to weather and Ive tried to fly at least once per week.
Just completed my PPL a couple of weeks ago at 49 hours.

Obviously if I had the time and funding I could have done it much sooner.

:)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Couple of years sounds about right for most weekend fliers. Possibly faster than that if your school lets you book, and you can pay for, several lessons each weekend.

Otherwise with an optimistic 50% cancellation rate and one lesson per weekend it's two years for 52 hours, and you'll most likely need more than that. (IME WRT cancellation, with a PPL which is less weather sensitive than some of the training, the summer cancellation rate is around 50%, with the winter rate being around 67%, and this summer is much more like a normal winter.)

[vkw91]

Must admit, this is something which concerns me. I am planning on being a weekend flyer (@ LPL), but from what i've heard, the written exams only last for 18/24 months...meaning 2 years would be scraping it!

[Zulu Mike]

Whilst I'm sure LPL has very good FTOs, and the advantage of full ATC it has the disadvantage for the student pilot of having only one runway. Although some years ago (January 1983 to be precise) I started my PPL training at Keenair, the majority of lesson cancelations were due to crosswinds which were beyond my personal capabilites and delaying my first solo to a point which I was at the time finding frustrating (the arrogance of youth perhaps). After many such cancellations and 17 hours dual instruction, I went to Blackpool with its 3 runway configuration and soloed first day there, 26 years later I still fly from Blackpool but am a little more confident in crosswinds. My point being of course that you should expect more cancellations if flying from Liverpool than from (for example) Sleap or Blackpool with multiple runways. Grass fields also would probably result in more cancellations due to state of the runway in the winter months. It is however not how quick you can attain a PPL it's how good a pilot are you once you've got one that really matters. Whatever the trials and tribulations dont give up if it takes the rest of your life its worth it.

[foxmoth]

You will not need to do the writtens right at the start of the course, many schools will want Air Law out of the way before first solo so you may need to retake this if things go on too long but the rest can be left until later on.:ok:

[dont overfil]

Psims,
There are some pretty pessimistic estimates out there. I can only remember about four cancellations during my training. However it was back in the days when we thought the world was still cooling down!
I started in February and completed the course in September. One lesson each Sunday and sometimes one midweek in the summer. Total 43 hours. I did have only one instructor and he was happy to vary the lesson to suit the weather. I probably did more than the required 3 hours instrument appreciation and some lessons were VMC on top. Dundee was a great place to learn and I never once had a cancellation due to an aircraft going tech or instructor being unavailable.
There are guys here who have frozen ATPLs and an instructor ratings gained within two years acheived at weekends.
You need a bit of luck, a professionally run school but mostly determination.
DO.

[Lister Noble]

The instructors where I learned would not do more than two lessons a day as they reckoned with briefing ,hour's flight,then debrief with a break in between lessons was enough.
I think that was correct,for me anyway:)
I flew Friday,Saturday and Sunday weather permitting,so some weeks got in 6 hours and it took me from August 2005 to May 2006.
total 53 hours,but it isn't a race:)
Lister

[1800ed]

It took me about 12-13 months in total to gain my licence. I even took a nice break in the middle for winter and I seem to recall last summer being pretty rubbish for flying (well, for learning at least). If you can, try to fly during the week, because the weekends tend to be very busy; it's easier to get longer slots with your instructor in the week, meaning you can hopefully spend a bit more time on the ground before and after the lesson. This proves to be quite valuable :)

[Redbird72]

I could only have lessons on a Saturday, due to a combination of work and home commitments, and it took me about 18 months.

The weather very rarely cancelled a lesson outright, but frequently delayed solo circuits/XC flights by being outside of the club's minima for student solo (or my/my instructor's comfort zone for solo work). On more than one occasion my instructor used the privileges of his IR to get us away from the weather at base to some clearer weather elsewhere for a dual lesson.

I would say that the weather probably added about 3 months to my training time, but that said, I'm glad I experienced a variety of weather conditions before qualification!

[jez d]

Average is 12-16 months for weekend-only flyers, judging by my old flying school. Caveat is that you stay on top of your ground exams, revise thoroughly between lessons and use at least a portion of your summer hols to do some intensive training. It also helps if you become a 'regular' at your flying club - you'll be surprised at the extra knowledge (and even free flying on occasion) you'll pick up by just being a known face. Do take any advice given to you by the non-instructor, club stalwarts with a large pinch of salt however. Beware the club know-it-all who says he's forgotten more about flying than the CFI has ever learnt - they can do more damage than good when it comes to giving you advice. And one last thing, it's not a good idea to train at a school that will give you a different instructor for every lesson. There's nothing wrong with swapping between a couple of instructors, but much more than that and your training will become muddled.

Regards, jez