Qantas S.I.T. Forced Transfers Ballot

[QF94]

So now it's official. S.I.T. are to lose 12 LAME's to Base. It is going to be interesting who will choose to go, or who will be chosen to go.

Last in the section, first to go; or
Last in QANTAS, first to goNow that Air New Zealand will officially depart QF at SIT on 17/09/09, and there are no other worthwhile contracts left, save for JAL and Korean, there will simply be too many LAME's at SIT surplus to requirements. Oh well, I guess when te brainiacs in management severed all the other contracts, there is no need for so many LAME's at SIT.

This could get quite ugly when the fingers start pointing and shoulders start getting tapped, and unfortunately, the ALAEA can do nothing, as they are the ones proposing the ballot for either of the above two points.

Once again, QF reigns supreme in dividing and conquering, all in the name of operational requirements.

[changeawhell]

You would have to think, the brothers will band together and vote out "last in section" prob most of the heavy crowd that come over post closure, but your right not a very nice situation and things will get messy i'm sure. There are 3 DMM's that come from SDO recently i'm sure they will be a bit worried. They cannot be excluded from the process as we are "all in union together".

[an3_bolt]

Any other airline contracts coming up that can be tendered for? What about labour hire out to the people who picked up all the work?

Not familiar with the situation - just trying think of other solutions.

[rudderless1]

crew rotations with base would resolve many issues, it would be a benefit for both the company and the Lame's.

[ampclamp]

Whilst it would be nice for those wanting VR qantas would be insane to offer VR when they really need troops.

alaea cant do much because jobs are being offered, not cut.
Same city same airport, you just can't fight it so they just have to leave the decision up to the troops.
if its not 'cushy' or suitable its tough on those affected but better than no job.
Its a nationwide ballot i think so the result will be interesting.

[1746]

Rudderless, that sounds a practical suggestion!

[GodDamSlacker]

With reference to the last in, first out, Can the ALAEA advise - Is this going to include everyone, ie DMM, LAMES,AME,T/A's, all trades Mechanical & Avionic?

Cant vote unless there is 100% clarification on this subject as the goal posts will move if after the vote its stated that only LAME Mechanical are the ones to be selected from!

This will set a precedent for any other changes that happen in any other section within Qantas Engineering, possibly even when redundancies happen.

Either way this is going to be a mess....

[changeawhell]

Rudderless and 1746 while the crew rotation idea may sound fair, it is impossible now tha the SIO is part of the LMO business and BASE is part of AMS (Heavy Maintenance). I agree it the DMM's should def be involved also there are the blue tow team who only came last year, maybe that will save some white shirt posy's for us.

[BigGun]

I doubt many avionics LAME's will depart, they are rare enough. Crews of 8+ mechanic's and a single Avionics LAME

[the rim]

this is going to happen in bne as they have lost the customer contracts as well and there are 20 lame's whose redundancy was cancelled,so the redundancy's should be offered first then maybe a combo of the two points offered up by the union,but which ever way it goes its going to get messy at SIT and base,maybe crew rotation would work as it did years ago

[Jet-A-One]

My prediction-

Single licence mech guys with 767 or 744 will be first in the firing line. The first on first off/seniority thing will only come into it if it comes down to two or more guys with the same licence.

I'm not saying it's fair but do you really believe they'll send someone with a 330 or 738 to the hangars or tell a newly appointed DMM to put his overalls on for that matter.

Like I said, just my prediction...

-JA1

[Ngineer]

The crux of the problem is team 380. If we let base do the 380 overniters, and SIT the transits the whole problem would be solved. Instead we have a heap of guys only focussing one aircraft type, creating a complete imbalance across Sydney engineering.

Lack of staff, not lic training our AME's, and Syd heavy closure has also compounded problems.

Sooner or later we may see a management regime, with half a brain, that will realise that we need A380 (and eventually 787 guys) at the SIT. But by this time they will be too under-staffed to handle the workload. Maybe if we trained A380 guys at the SIT and let them handle the transits the problem would be solved and no-one would have to move.

Once again we must clean up the mess made by poor management.

[QF94]

With reference to the last in, first out, Can the ALAEA advise - Is this going to include everyone, ie DMM, LAMES,AME,T/A's, all trades Mechanical & Avionic?

Cant vote unless there is 100% clarification on this subject as the goal posts will move if after the vote its stated that only LAME Mechanical are the ones to be selected from!

This will set a precedent for any other changes that happen in any other section within Qantas Engineering, possibly even when redundancies happen.

Either way this is going to be a mess....

As far as we are being told in SIT, it is only LAME's, and it appears the majority, if not all will be mechanical. I don't believe the 12 that will be sent to Base will include DMM's. Hell, they're practically management, and they'll be choosing the ones they don't want.

It may not necessarily be that the management will follow a recommendation that the ALAEA proposes of first in, last out. They may choose the "trouble makers" to go, irrespective of the licences they hold. We all know that logic and commonsense does not prevail when it comes to making a section run. Just look at 380. All the SIT guys that went over initially, took all the 744, 767, 737, 738 and 330 licences with them, leaving us short, and here we are getting rid of another 12, and possibly more when Domestics need there operations propped up.

Beats me, Base and Domestics weren't bringing in income, but SIT were when they had all the foreign operators, then some bright spark decided we don't need customers which included:


British
Air Canada
Thai
Singapore
Malaysian
Royal Brunei
Air New Zealand (soon to depart 17 September)
Aerolineas
Air Pacific
Philippines
Air China
China Airlines
China Southern
China Eastern
Viva Macau
Hawaiin
Vietnam
AsianaAll that is left is (apart from QANTAS group airlines including Jetconnect and Jet Star):

Korean
JAL
Atlas Freighter (QF flight number)Do the math. QANTAS will need to be looking at contracts down the track, and out of the 18 mentioned above, they will most probably actively seek about 3 or 4. And if/when they get the contracts back, they are going to need more guys back at the terminal

[company_spy]

Do the math. QANTAS will need to be looking at contracts down the track, and out of the 18 mentioned above, they will most probably actively seek about 3 or 4. And if/when they get the contracts back, they are going to need more guys back at the terminal

And when that happens, the 12 blokes who were dislocated from the SIT should have first dibs at going back (if they want) on a last out first back basis.

[QF94]

And when that happens, the 12 blokes who were dislocated from the SIT should have first dibs at going back (if they want) on a last out first back basis.



Spy, we both know that won't be the case. Once the "chosen 12" are gone, there is no going back (not for a long time). It seems that Base and Domestics have too much say in the goings on at S.I.T. We are just a kicking bag for the incompetence of our management and the arrogance of Base's management.

We only have to ask why Heavy Maint. was initially shut down. To build Avalon, which was touted at the time as being only for "overflow" work from SYD. Now Avalon gives "overflow" work to Philippines, Singapore and HAECO. Rumour has it, that QF had to BUY a line in HAECO to fit its scheduled aircraft maintenance in. Avalon couldn't handle it, and the others told QF to get in line and wait their turn. Meanwhile, H245 and H271 sit idle and empty and $$$$$$$ are being wasted on having other 3rd party maintenance organisations doing the work that was once done in SYD, and only done once.

Again, the maths just don't add up. It seems an expensive way to systematically shut down engineering, and erode the "mighty and powerful" engineering force that brought the company to its knees with only a few 4-hour stop-work meetings nationwide. Not wildcat strikes as reported by the company that supposedly cost them $150 million (probably more), as opposed to just giving about $5-$6 million in wage increases as was reasonably requested during the GREAT WAR of 2008. This increase would have been a valuable acknowledgement of the work that not only engineers do, but the company as a whole. That $150 million could have pretty well covered most, if not all employees within QF, and the "Brand" would not have been tainted the way it was, and the workforce would have gotten on and done the job they were initially employed to do.

Anyway, fun times ahead after 17 September.

[Ngineer]

I seriously hope that we won't be entertaining the idea of "rotation" at the whim of a few members. For the majority of members this would not work, simply for commitments outside of work. (businesses, wive's that work, seperated parents sharing custody, etc etc...)

Crew structures and licence coverage would also make this difficult.

[Jet-A-One]

Have they started tapping people on the shoulder yet?

Did the company put a date on it?

Was there any volunteers?

[ampclamp]

To be honest I'm not comfortable that I'll be deciding the future of people I mostly don't know.
I can see problems with whatever is adopted.
I cant see how the alaea can enforce a method.it can negotiate and cajole but its hard to make it happen.

Should the option of letting all the SIO people vote on WHO they want to see go?

No worse than simply last in first out of some description.Those newish to the section prob good young fellows are then new to the next section and get punted around next time.
How many long termers are just serving time and doing nothing else? Rhetorical question for the sake of debate.Will base accept dead wood (assumng there is) or will they get to choose or reject?

No winners here., but at least jobs are not being lost.

[Jet-A-One]

I personally think the ballot results this time around should not apply to future forced transfers.

A distinction should be made between forced transfers to departments in the same port and transfers to another city. Imagine having worked in PER for ten years with your kids in school etc. only to be punted back to SYD over a bloke with more years of service that's been on station a month.

In the current situation I think the years of service policy should be applied. IN THIS CASE. But I'm concerned the precedent will be used to make blokes move to another port in the future.

[ampclamp]

agreed JA1 each situation should be treated separately.I don't want to see any standards/precedents set that will be used to anyone's detriment in the future.case by case.

[Jet-A-One]

There's nothing "fair" about the whole process...

At the end of the day it will be the younger, less experienced guys that are the targets. I know I'd rather go over to Servicing because I had the least years of service than go over as the guy that was voted out by my peers or from the bottom some performance based scale.

[Ngineer]

What happens to a LAME who has established themselves in a section and waited in line for promotion for years

He gets gazzumped by a Dom bloke.:ok:

[Jet-A-One]

It would suck being the LAME that "waited in line for promotion" but you'd probably find the guy that is new to the section may have "waited in line" in his previous section to get to the SIT. Or he may have "waited in line" to get the OS posting he recently returned from. Maybe he was "waiting in line" over in Major Maint before they closed it down.

[Ngineer]

JA1 agreed, in a perfect world mate it would be good to see guys getting positions they deserved due to "waiting in line", (amongst other things).

[GodDamSlacker]

The initial 12 will be followed by more, possible a grand total of 30 people to move from the SIT...this is just the beginning..

[another superlame]

GodDamSlacker tell us more about this revelation of their being more to go

[QF94]

The initial 12 will be followed by more, possible a grand total of 30 people to move from the SIT...this is just the beginning..

Once the chosen 12 are removed from S.I.T. to Base and the back-filling is complete there, Domestics will need to fill up their shortfall in staff. They appear to run a hefty overtime rate there. Once that shortfall is filled in, Team A380 are going to need more people when the other 2 aircraft arrive later this year.

It appears official that OJK, OJH, OED and another 744 are going to be retired from service, therfore diminishing S.I.T. operations further, because the A380 will be replacing those 4 aircraft. As A380 is not integrated with S.I.T. operations, there won't be the need for those "surplus" 744 engineers at the terminal, so they may be herded over to Base or even A380.

That is where the extra will go. The figure of 12 is n ot final, just the beginning.

[stuntcock]

I was down at my local shops today when I bumped into a guy I used to work with at EOC,He has it on good authority that the Engine Line guys
who want to be redeployed will go to Base so the guys at Base can go to the Team 380,not the original plan as the Engine Line guys were to go to
Team 380.He said the guys at Base had a whinge.Fair enough

I think 12 lames to Base from SIT is just the start with more to come as the 744 fleet deminishes.As well as Domestics short on staff as well.

I have been a lame at the SIT for some years,I guess party time at the SIT is coming to an end.

[changeawhell]

While the smart thing to do would be to train some guys up at the SIT on the 380 then, there would be no need to move people and not have a whole lot of guys sitting around H96 with multiple licenses that aren't being used. Simple fix would be wait till the next two elephants too arrive then there is no more deliveries for over a year and re-integrate it back to normal ops. i.e line ops handled by SIT and 'A' checks handled by base that way everyone learns the new aircraft technology and no-one gets put out of place. Funny thing is the first one is prob due for a 'C' check in the next 12 months and I don't think there is too many places out there to do it.

[empire4]

has anyone ever suggested a seniority based number for LAME's such as the pilots use? #1 is the longest serving as a LAME, followed right to the newest AME to come across. This sovles alot of problems; Its transperant, training to go down the line???? Then things such as this becomes totally according to your seniority, just like pilot training. just a thought....

[The Mr Fixit]

Empire it's been suggested many a time but is always disregarded by management as a discrimantory system (how laughable as the system they employ is precisely discrimantory - only the suckholes get promoted).

Guys wake up this management is failing us and the business and making YOU BELIEVE it's your fault WAKE UP they cannot sack you if you say NO.
There are many reasons for this failing but here's a start

(A) All are wannabees, self promoting, veneer thin of content with little to offer but empty promises and veiled threats
(B) Despite their own self funded claims have very little real time experience ie doing the hard yards of shiftwork most weaseled their way out early taking manager or supervisiory jobs very early in their career then built their way up by undermining others.
(C) None have provided worth or valued input into any of the business areas they have fronted look at the degradation of Base, SIT, Maint Watch, the TEAM A380 debacle, Melbourne merger, Melbourne Heavy Maint, outbase erosion. HAVE YOU GUYS FORGOTTEN WHAT JV DID TO SYDNEY HEAVY ALREADY ? !!!! In fact all of those businesses have suffered not from the 'EBA' or union efforts but simply from management stupidity which is covered up by lies and more management stupidity
(D) They could not beat the men during the dispute so they seek to undermine members terms and conditions by removing external contracts and purporting the 'need' to rebuild the business "You guys need to embrace the future and change your shifts so we can get you more work, please help us plot your own demise"

Gavin stood before us and said that there would be 290 course placements and licence training by years end with less than 4 months to go hes got at least 200 people to train

How many have been trained in SYD ?
How many have been trained in MEL ?
How many have been trained in BNE ?
How many have been trained in ADL ?
How many have been trained in PER ?
How many have been trained in CNS ?
How many have been trained in AVV ?
How many have been trained in MEL HVY ?
How many have been trained in BNE HVY ?
How many have been trained in DRW ?

I say we say NO to any more change until they listen and provide us ALL with equal access to training (For ALL trades), a fair way to aportion it, increased manpower so we can actually take the hundreds of years of leave that is is owed to us..........................

Stand up, Stand up for your rights...................NOW

[The masked goatrider]

Were do you want me to stand bloke?

[QF94]

I say we say NO to any more change until they listen and provide us ALL with equal access to training (For ALL trades), a fair way to aportion it, increased manpower so we can actually take the hundreds of years of leave that is is owed to us..........................

Fixit, that would be the prudent and honourable way to run a business and treat your staff that actually contribute to the running of the business. Unfortunately, as has been said earlier in this thread, it is only the ones that frequent the DMM's and manager's office and carress their egos that actually get anywhere. It is also unfortunate, that it is these same guys that would sell their own mothers to further their aspirations and agendas. We all know that those in the upper echelons are only there because they have no morals, and will do whatever it takes to get there. And when they finally do get there, they end up getting shafted because they couldn't perform the way they said they were going to.

There is nothing fair about the way training is distributed. You only have to take a look around and see which people have gotten training over the years and which haven't. Then with all that training, they're now on A380 leaving their last section short of licences (S.I.T. comes to mind). How do our management address this issue? Diminish customer contracts to a point that we at S.I.T. are "overstaffed".

The bottom line is, aircraft will always need engineers on them. No matter how smart they are. In this case, the management doesn't really care who does it so long as it is done "cost effectively". Alan Joyce is no different to Dixon, only does it with a smile and an Irish accent.

Stand up, Stand up for your rights...................NOW

Most guys feel their rights have been knocked out of them and are too scared (understandably) to stand up to management again. If the ALAEA say they can't really challenge the company, because they are transferring engineers from place to another, then there doesn't appear to be too much to stand up for. As usual, the guys will cop it on the chin and keep soldiering on.

[The Mr Fixit]

Welcome back GR good to see your return to the pulpit after a long abscence ........ I want you to stand on your own two feet not live under the DMM/Managers desk as too many of our bretheren do these days.

QF94 we do not have to 'take it' we didn't during the 18 month fight for a reasonable payrise Is that struggle long forgotten so soon ?
The french created a new word during the war for those who 'assisted' the nazis 'Collaborator' during our war we coined an old word for these people 'Scab'. Today these pieces of dried skin infest Qantas Engineering management.
I may be old school, I may be set in my ways or I simply may be old but I will not forgive, I will not forget and I will certainly not assist them in running my brothers and I into extinction. If they are going to do it then they do it the hard way.

Sydney Heavy sank way too easily with JVs and KCs boots on their heads and all other sections turning a blind eye just praying the company did not turn it's eye upon them well it looks like SIT is next on the list, then MEL... will we again sit idly by ?

[QF94]

QF94 we do not have to 'take it' we didn't during the 18 month fight for a reasonable payrise Is that struggle long forgotten so soon ?
The french created a new word during the war for those who 'assisted' the nazis 'Collaborator' during our war we coined an old word for these people 'Scab'. Today these pieces of dried skin infest Qantas Engineering management.
I may be old school, I may be set in my ways or I simply may be old but I will not forgive, I will not forget and I will certainly not assist them in running my brothers and I into extinction. If they are going to do it then they do it the hard way.

Fixit, no one is saying we have to take it, but the reality is that a number of guys within S.I.T., especially the younger ones, are mostly concerned that:

They have least years within the company
They have least years within the sectionWith these two points supposedly against them, they feel they have no choice but to go to Base.

I have heard myself within S.I.T. some of the LAME's stating that everything else is based on years of service within the comapny, so should this compulsory transfer, and that is the way they are voting. As for myself, I have both years of service within the company and the section, and won't be affected by this move, but I do feel for the individuals who will be chosen.

I go back to my previous posting before yours. There are those that will sell their own mothers to save their own miserable hides, so selling a few LAME's means nothing to them so long as they can hold on to what they have at whatever cost, no matter the end result.

You can stand and fight all you wish, but when you have your own troops in the trenches with you letting off grenades, you're not only up against management firing at you, but some of your own colleagues. This is the sad but true reality.

[rudderless1]

Not the first time we've had scabs in the trenches along side us :yuk:.
Against all odds we came through last time with a bit of integrity and backbone WHILST THE FEW UNDERMINED.

I hope we learnt we achieved a better outcome for ALL for the LONG TERM term, which far exceeded the alternative that the scabs were willing to sellout for for 6 months and $100 000.:ugh: DUMB SCABS.

Why not make BASE a better place?

[GodDamSlacker]

Base and SIT are very different worlds, with heavier and probably more involved work at Base than SIT - which attempts to clearing as much hold/MEL items as possible in limited ground time....At the end of the day, the problem isnt the SIT or Domestic or even Base Environment - its the uselss idiots they have put in as DMM's Operations Managers and Upper Management....these areas all work well, but with the Suckholes they have promoted, the credibility of each area has suffered and will continue for many years....as sad state of affairs compared to years ago when each area was a Star within engineering...
What's the Fix?
Tough Decisions need to be made! but they wont happen with these people as they are to scared to make any decisions! Job capability doesn't rest on your interview technique that's showing thru especially at the SIT!
Base and A380 haven't escaped either with losers being promoted out of their depth!

[Ngineer]

It appears official that OJK, OJH, OED and another 744 are going to be retired from service, therfore diminishing S.I.T. operations further, because the A380 will be replacing those 4 aircraft.

Looking at the bigger picture, where will this leave the base guys in the next few years?

Sure, SIT are immediately affected due to loss of contracts and the A380 taking on some routes, but as the 744's and 767's start retiring what about base maint? Will base have to start going through the same cr@p as the SIT?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Members were asked:-


"If a situation arises within Qantas where transfers from one section to another are unavoidable, I would prefer the ALAEA request the following method of selection"

Two responses were offered and members were asked to select one of those responses. The number of votes for each response were as follows:-

Last in section, first out ……………………………….... 46
Least years of service with Qantas, first out ……………. 119
Invalid vote ……………………………………………… 1
Total Votes ……………………………………………… 166

[changeawhell]

Well Fed Sec, I suppose you would say "the members have spoken". Small turnout for the vote really, shows that alot of people thought the issue is to sensitive to vote on. Let the fighting begin, not going to be pretty. I really feel for those young blokes at the SIT, who most of them were top of there class during there apprenticeship and earned there job there and now they get shot in the face, while other members who are cruising for a VR retirement package get to waddle around like penguins all day.

What is the union's perspective on operational issue's? Is it fair that guys with the A330 get to stay and those who don't get moved, is there a case for discrimination due to the circumstance i.e "why did he get that aeroplane over me"??.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Small turnout for the vote really, shows that alot of people thought the issue is to sensitive to vote on

No it doesn't. People wouldn't vote for many reasons such as, not thinking about work when they go home, not caring too much about what happens at SIT becasue they don't work there, not having a computer at home to log in and some may not have had an opinion either way.

I can recall 3 of these votes for ALAEA members by Election Australia. The turnout has been similar each time.

What is the union's perspective on operational issue's? Is it fair that guys with the A330 get to stay and those who don't get moved, is there a case for discrimination due to the circumstance i.e "why did he get that aeroplane over me"??.

Discrimination is illegal if you can prove you missed out because of -

age, race, sex, sexual preference, maritial status, political opinion etc.....

You wouldn't be successful if you based it on -

I missed out on a course, the boss doesn't like me, I don't cut corners like some or I don't play golf with the manager.

That's why Qantas proudly say that they abide by anti-discrimination laws and EEO policies. I wish they also had to abide by a moral code.

[another superlame]

I didn't realise that the vote was open to all LAMEs from all areas. I thought that because this was specific to SIT that it would have been their vote.

It isnt right for people to vote on something that ultimately wont affect them,but I guess this could affect more people in the near future

[Redstone]

I did not recieve the "how to vote" info, could be more in that boat. I know the guys in Base were quite reluctant to be the hang man, I realise the need for a unified position on this issue but given the turn out I'd say only the SIT blokes ended up voting in the end any way (plus a few more maybe).

As for training and perceved "positions on the ladder", forget it. The company have been making promises they have no intention of keeping, the endless 330 training will not eventuate, only the golden few will ever see it.

Maintain the rage, the war is far from over........

[tjc]

I really feel for those young blokes at the SIT, who most of them were top of there class during there apprenticeship

And what, the longer serving guys didnt do an apprenticeship or have a go back in their early years!

I believe that the area should decide their own fate in this particular situation, maybe the reason for the voter turn out.
I hope that this would be the same in the future.

Makes sense to me.

[ampclamp]

1/ fed sec, can set out clearly what qantas can and cannot do with these transfers please. Any precedents ?

It would mean a change in extended hours roster and a change of "employer "given line and the base are separate businesses.

2/ If qantas just picked people and said 'you' start in your new section in a months time (for example) and you didn't want to change, could it be fought credibly in an industrial / legal sense because of the above points (roster, place of employment) ???

3/ If the above points can be fought wth a chance of success would qantas be faced with offering redundancies if they truly want to reduce numbers at SIO?

thanks.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

G'day Clamp,

Good questions and ones I have been asked dozens of times over the last couple of weeks. I will answer them shortly but I can generally say that there are a lot of members out there thinking about what they consider fair, that redundancies should be offered first (calls predominantly coming from those around retirement age) and every single LAME has a personal reason why changes being brought in by the company will unfairly affect them.

The company you guys are working for is being run by a pack of fools. The changes they are seeking in many cases do not make sense. LAMEs will be hurt by poor decisions that the Engineering management appointees are making such as the dumping of all contracts, a separate 380 dept and a merger in Mel that is entirely unnecessary. They have neglected training, not replaced staff who have left and have convinced themselves that the better on time performance this year is due to their fine management skills (it is because our PIA and associated work to rule has stopped).

Unfortunately the law (even under a Labor Govt.) is heavily weighted against workers. Two weeks ago my 17 year old daughter complained in writing to her boss at Subway that she was being underpaid by 20% compared to the minimum wage rates set by the National wage case. She was sacked within a week. I helped her lodge with Fair Work Aust and we have been told that the first concilliation hearing will be 6 weeks away. What hope have you got with laws that work against fairness. Qantas are masters at using these laws and their law firm (Freehills) wrote most of them in the first place. They are designed to fk you over. Ok, time to stop telling stories and get these questions answered. Please accept what I say when I explain that there is nothing legal you can do about something. Please support me and yourselves when I put out a notice recommending you work to rule, not cut corners, refuse half ar$ed training or withdraw your goodwill. These are our tools, we need to work with them.

1/ fed sec, can set out clearly what qantas can and cannot do with these transfers please. Any precedents ?

It would mean a change in extended hours roster and a change of "employer "given line and the base are separate businesses.


Qantas can run their business however they like. They do have to "consult" us regarding changes but that is about it. Can they force staff from one section to another? Not at all. There is another door you can walk through if you don't like their offer. 12 blokes will only be given 2 options though.

Precedents? In 92 I was forced out of SIT to keep a job with Qantas. When SHM closed, staff were forced out of SHM to other depts. They are closing an engine line, if the staff want to remain employed, they must retrain and move to Base. In some cases, VR is offered but there are only a limited number on offer. Most staff faced with the situation prefer to move to the new section.

The argument that they are separate businesses is a bit of wishful thinking. It is a different business only when Qantas want it to be (to compete with each other in tendering processes, as an excuse not help each other to retain contracts, when they wish to not co-operate on training, when they just want to blame another dept). It is one company though, Qantas. The EBA covers all LAMEs in whatever they want to call their business units.

Different rosters? Didn't vote? There is something you can do about this. When you get to the new section, call for a vote. If 66% aren't in favour, it goes down and negotiations start for a new one. Careful you don't upset your new workmates though, they might like their roster.


2/ If qantas just picked people and said 'you' start in your new section in a months time (for example) and you didn't want to change, could it be fought credibly in an industrial / legal sense because of the above points (roster, place of employment) ???


No. Sorry, not at all on the above points. If we could use them, we would. If there was the smallest chance we could prevent changes for these reasons we would give it a go.

We do have some other ideas though unrelated to the points above that many members think are fair claims for decency for long serving loyal employees. Our ideas are a little outside the box, it may call on the members to stick together or it may not. I would rather not give Qantas a heads up on this forum though.

3/ If the above points can be fought wth a chance of success would qantas be faced with offering redundancies if they truly want to reduce numbers at SIO?


The redundancy thing comes up all the time. We know there are a large number who would love to escape right now. If they want to reduce SIT (SIO is a Murrayology. SIT is how we term it) LAMEs but need them elsewhere, we can't force them to offer VR. If I can term it a different way.

We don't need you in your job anymore but the great news is this. We have another job exactly the same as yours at the same rate of pay and classification (LAME) (suitable alternative employment) just across the street. Once they offer suitable alt. employment, they don't need to offer VR. Your choice is move or leave. Its harsh but thats the law. We can't force them to offer VR and won't waste our time trying.

Happy to answer any further questions.

ps. as I don't have the opportunity anymore, can each of you please raise 12 hold items this week on your aircraft, one for each LAME who they are trying to force into another dept against their wishes. Sorry, on second thoughts don't raise too many hold items, it may cost Kev his bonus.

[griffin one]

bring back rotation, then all the guys who got shafted to base in the late eighties, early ninety,s could have their turn at the sio and all the guys who have been at the sio staight out of their time could learn a little.No shots across the bow, But since the contracts have evaporated why not. have a vote on three groups one for fixed term sio,one for fixed term base and one for a rotation roster.the initial twelve might have to wear some pain short term, but a two year rotating scenario would benefit all concerned.
now to the night shift issue, did all lames in base and sio vote on extended hour rosters back in the 90,s ?

[StayStrong]

and all the guys who have been at the sio staight out of their time could learn a little.No shots across the bow

Nice comment. Great timing to try and create a greater divide between the sections. These people who "could learn a little" actually worked their butts off to get the choice of section.

The rotation theory might seem simple, but lives are shaped around the work shifts, and lets face it, some people just do not want to work night shifts, and some just can't.

Look at the company's track record. Do you think they could be organised / bothered to give people enough warning of their rotation.

"Oh look, my leave is approved for my family trip to Europe. My rental car is booked and so are hotels"

"Actually, ummm, sorry, but you're rotating in two weeks and will be on a different shift, so no leave...."

You know it will happen.

[changeawhell]

Don't think the rotation issue is not going to come to fruition, that would prob involve another vote and that vote would prob really be able to voted on by the SIT boys as it would affect there lives more. As you said with leave and all the rest it would just be to complicated. The other issue is that the crews are composite these days and it was only the mechanical guys that rotated in the past, so it would be pretty hard to split a crew and rotate it. Fed Sec is this an idea that is seriously being thrown around???

[heavyjetmech]

Just get over it...

If you're in base maint and happy, well good for you - you've found your niche! Well done :D

If you're in base maint and unhappy, because you can't get to line... perhaps it's just not your thing.

Accept it - why don't you!

There's way too much whinging going on.

Rotations are a load of B/S because as soon as the base guy gets up to speed and in a groove, he's done. Time for another guy to fill his shoes.

Swapping manpower adhoc between Sit and Base are a bad idea because Line Lames have different perceptions of what is a "go" condition for an aircraft as compared to a Base Lame's perspective.

And also, who needs another uninterested Lame being paid $130k in the hangers anyway?

Sending SIT guys to base will provide another 12 oxygen thiefs!!!


Ok, so it's my first post!

I'm wearing asbestos underwear. Ready to be flamed! :\

[another superlame]

Awesome post heavyjetmech, I am laughing my @rse off. I hope your skin is as thick as an elephants butt because you have no doubt upset some princesses. :D

[GodDamSlacker]

Interesting that Base seem to think SIT Lames are above them? Would have thought its the Domestic Boys who think they are above everyone else, including Base...
The Facts - SIT was profitably, offsetting its operational costs with between 15-17 million per year....Then Managements mismanagement meant they couldnt attract anymore people so the contracts had to go so more staff could be made available....Guys this isnt a Base versus the SIT, it wont be long before Base or domestics will be looking for support as management decide manpower can be reduced...
Time to stop the crap what people think and focus on the issue at hand...

[Ngineer]

Give it a rest guys. I think most of us are getting pretty sick of some of the w@nkers slagging off base guys, (except for you Heavyjet, I enjoyed that one), and the base guys slagging off SIT. I have worked in both and can say that most are a professional and smart bunch of fellas, regardless on whether they lube gears, rig flaps, or fix bleed defects in an hour flat.

To suggest otherwise is simply a display of ignorance and inexperience. Lets stay united and on topic.

[Short_Circuit]

^^^^^^^^ Ngineer, I second that. :D

[griffin one]

how about we engage the managers,bring out the tragedy map,sit by the fires at camp krusty,carry out a lap,have a clear and transparent forum,build a bridge of trust with some rope and sticks,empower the twelve and lets all stay where we are. see problem fixed

[Ngineer]

Sorry to hear about your daughter loosing her job. It's pretty hard not to take stuff like that personal when it happens to your own family. Makes me wonder what sort of Country we are living in.

Sounds like a few of those $ubw@y managers deserve a good footlong up em!

[1746]

Yet again our only strength is in Unity. We need to all stick together not slag each other!
Guys united we stand - we proved it last year - lets strengthen our resolve and do it again and again till it becomes second nature to look out for all LAMEs - if we don't we are doomed!
For far too long have we collectively let the Freeh*lls and *ldme*dows of this world pick us off a few at a time!
Changes have been forced on lots of us and they will continue to crop up and the only hope we have is from our combined single mindedness of purpose and unity!
All the best to those about to have their working worlds changed against their wishes - I know it is not pleasant!!!!!!

[QF94]

As I'd stated earlier in this thread, this compulsory shift of a few engineers from S.I.T. to Base was not going to be pretty, and the management seem to be succeeding in what they set out to do. Destabilise the troops and have them slanging off at one another, and who's better than who, and which section is better than which. The old divide and conquer reigns supreme, and a precentage of blokes look for the first opportunity to have a dig at one another, while management carve up the company and pull the rug out from underneath us.

Unless I'm mistaken, don't we all work for QANTAS? Why is engineering at Base better or worse than S.I.T. or S.I.T. better or worse than Base and Domestics, and why is there a difference in the "quality" of engineers between the sections and the way things are done? We all are supposed to work by the same manuals and carry out the tasks as required. Unfortunately, a certain few have a certain way of doing things, and unless it's their way, it's not up to scratch.

I guess this perception is spread by a miserable few that felt they were above others that should have gone to the terminal and didn't get to go, or should have gone to Domestics and didn't get to go, so then slag off at those that went, and spread their own misery amongst those that stayed behind.

[heavyjetmech]

There's no innate difference between the Base - Line - Heavy engineer. :bored: They are the same animal. (did you see the full stop?)

Hopefully they all did apprenticeships, basics and type courses. :O

The only thing is that some excel in different aspects of our trade.

When you have a guy who relishes a flap change and loves getting the rig down to the closest 0.005" - why would you put him in a line situation.

Vice versa - If a guy is great at making operational decisions, knowing how much meat is in the system, so that he can let the flight get to it's destination, why would you put him in Base?

The 12 that go to Base will be like fish out of water, Tools? what tools? the DDG and a pen are his tools;)

I'm still wearing my Asbestos underpants:}

[Jet-A-One]

YOU ARE the tool!

[heavyjetmech]

JA1, Maaate....

I loved your eloquent prose! Such a well thought out post. not.

BTW....is there too much cold weather additive in your mix?

Not even warm :zzz:

[600ft-lb]

This is stupid bickering.

ANY engineer worth their weight in salt should be able to adapt to the situation or section they find themselves in.

Do you really need to fix that defect in the line situation ? Is it airworthy ? Can it be deferred until the next A check ? That is the question line guys ask themselves with all the support of the DDG, MM and maintenance watch. At the end of the day it is just a mindset.

Now if the line guys can't get out of that mindset if they get posted to base maintenance then yes they are useless from a company perspective and a drain on their crew mates who have to pick up their slack.

Its the same thing when an ex heavy guy goes to base maintenance and start getting all pedantic about scratches in the paint on an oil filler access panel. Unless the guys are totally incompetent and have no sense of commercial reality, maybe being a utility worker is a more suitable position.

It really does **** me when the more holier then thou gang get up on their high horses and proclaim that mr engineer from <insert section here> can't do this job because they're not here in the first place.

We all came from somewhere. Once people get off their high horses and show a bit of respect around the place who knows they might actually learn something.

[heavyjetmech]

600ftlb you hit the bullseye, In terms of mindset.

Unfortunately "Mindset" is the hardest thing to change in a person.

You have to ask whether it's worth all the heartache in changing someone outlook to do something they don't want to do.

The only case where it would work with any great ease would be a general call for volunteers.

Other than that, it's pi$$ing money, experience and morale/goodwill against the wall.:ugh:

[600ft-lb]

I agree there should be a call for volunteers.

Failing that, based upon a business decision, because in all reality, what can you expect a manager to base his decisions upon, why would you keep a 767 only licenced guy when you are turning around 747s, 737s, a330s and 767s when he could more suitably be used in base maintenance where depending on the crew 50% of the work is 767 related.

Theres no point sending the 330, 737 guy to base maintenance now is there.

The other thing that really does **** me in Qantas is that the squeaky wheels ALWAYS get the grease.. The guys who sit back and let the decision makers do their job always end up getting screwed.

The same thing will happen in this case, its just inherent with Qantas in general across the sections. The whingers have always gotten their way in regards to training, job applications etc.

At the end of the day, the guys who are redundant and who are made an offer of redeployment should just accept it and get involved in your new section. There is no point in looking back in what you think was YOUR deserved and owed personal job and making a 1/2 arsed attempt at the new position. Who knows you might enjoy it and it might even open up new career opportunities for you. Everything in life is what you make of it. Who cares if you aren't happy with the deal, your manager doesn't care, no one else in qf engineering cares, the union can't do anything, so just get on with it, adjust your mindset to suit and don't look back.

[Jet-A-One]

Well said 600ft-lb!

All the Servicing/Terminal rivalries and slaging aside. Those of us that get xfered need to cop it on the chin and get on with the job.

We're meant to be running an airline not an air hose...:}

[heavyjetmech]

One thing I'm sure of is that we'll be copping it on the chin.

I try not to play up the Base/Line bull$hit, but as said previously, mindset and ability should be taken into account.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

It's disappointing to read about the inter-section/trade rivalry. There is really no need for it. We're all LAMEs doing the best we can to feed our families.

The cat will be thrown in with the pidgeons shortly all, notice about to come out explaining the ALAEAs upcoming steps. If they want to lay leather on your chin, they will have to get past mine first.

[hadagutfull]

I wOnder how many emails are being deleted as we speak..... Nice gesture though by the ALAEA.
I'm sure some good intel will come to the union as the SIT guys have had the chance to hear the truth from various customer reps.
Can anyone be taken to task over the blatant sabotage of the customer handling contracts?? I will watch with interest.
If it takes forever for a course to happen then we could apply the company protocol and the 12 to go should be still in place by this time next year...

[GodDamSlacker]

There is only the one main person to be held to blame, Mr Greene please stand up! But in all honesty he is/was just a puppet for the management - flick all the contracts or price them to the ridiculous so they wouldnt even consider QF as an option.....
So it really is all of the management who should be looked at, SIT managers Mr Deck, who spinelessness should really earn him an Excellence Award, the manager for doing absolutely nothing....Why bother having him at the SIT....come to think of it, the Operations Manager isnt much better....my fellow DMM's blow sunshine up, where the sunshine doesnt shine and he hasnt done anything....
It will be interesting over the next few weeks....

[hewlett]

To be fair,it is unlikely any of the managers, that those on the floor have any contact with would have orchestrated the direction QE has headed in, after all they will be affected as much as any one else once the final nails are driven.It is dissappointing though to see them pursuing blindly the direction the major players are taking the airline,with no regard for history,tradition or quality.It would be nice if someone up the tree had the gutz to explain where they eventually want to end up so that all may get on with their lives and careers.Pack of TIRDS.

[Ngineer]

.It would be nice if someone up the tree had the gutz to explain where they eventually want to end up so that all may get on with their lives and careers.Pack of TIRDS.

:ok:

I am sure this has been well orchestrated, and a long time coming. Very strange though that not one of the managers has had any b@lls to stand infront of the fellas and tell them.

[Oh Me Oh My]

The only ones with balls in QF management are the women...............
gutless g, kare-less k, dumb d, teflon t, rome burns whilst Nero fiddles........

[QF94]

To be fair,it is unlikely any of the managers, that those on the floor have any contact with would have orchestrated the direction QE has headed in, after all they will be affected as much as any one else once the final nails are driven.It is dissappointing though to see them pursuing blindly the direction the major players are taking the airline,with no regard for history,tradition or quality.It would be nice if someone up the tree had the gutz to explain where they eventually want to end up so that all may get on with their lives and careers.Pack of TIRDS.

Once one decides to take up the position of DMM and up, they no longer have a say in which direction the company goes in, let alone the direction within the company they go (if they want to remain in that position). It is basically accepted, that if you want a position of "authority", and I use that term very loosley, you will do as you are commanded, rightly or wrongly, and you will sing the company tune until you are blue in the face, and that you begin to believe what you are telling others to believe.

Otherwise, you can say goodbye to your temporary overseas relief posting, temporary relief manager position, or "progression" over to some other managerial position in the future at some point. Just look at the DMM's that have come over from SDT to SIT. Look at some of the acting DMM's (they should be up for nomination at the upcoming Emmy awards, as that is all they can do, act!).

This whole situation of "overstaffing" at S.I.T. has been "engineered" over a number of years, and it has been helped along by some of the LAME's who helped to devise and implement the 4 pillar system, literally splitting S.I.T. in half back in 2006, where 2 pillars do not ever see the other 2 pillars, leaving the DMM's to run their own little business empire. Where are those LAME's that pushed for the 4 pillar system? A380 and DMM at base. Not mentioning any names.

Then one by one, the customer contracts have been taken away so that we are at the position we are now (bent over a barrel with the vaseline jar in our hands, but not being used by management).

[The Mr Fixit]

The vas jar is just to make it look like it'll be smooth sailing from what I'm hearing it's the tip of the iceberg and not just for SIT

[UPPERLOBE]

QF94, not some of the LAME's just the two you mentioned. They had it all cut and dried before the committee stages even started. Any objections were ploughed over and several meetings ended in argument. Believe me alternate plans were put up by some committee members and never made it the vote, the guy's in the smoko room never saw them.

So in reality it was all "bollocks" wasn't it.

[The Trumpet]

Just wonder if anyone has heard how the ALAEA's "goodwill" visit to the Jetbase went yesterday?? Would have loved to been there to see it happen - would have even come in on my day off!!
(Hopefully this is just the begining of a campaign to make the managment "accountable"........funny, haven't heard that term used as much lately!!!)

[QF94]

(Hopefully this is just the begining of a campaign to make the managment "accountable"........funny, haven't heard that term used as much lately!!!)

Management will never put themselves in a position that they will ever admit accountability or liability. They have too many spin doctors to turn things around and make themselves look like the poor innocent party who tried everything in their power to be reasonable with its workforce and the various unions.

The term accountability only comes out of the closet when an employee makes a GENUINE mistake in their duties, and the manager is there in the office with the QPPM Vol 2 in hand and asking questions as to whether every letter in the document has been followed in the order set out. If not, then that employee is accountable for their actions and counselled accordingly.

If a manager makes a poor decision against advice given to them (because they knew better) and it all goes pear-shaped, it again falls on the subordinates for not following procedures, or for not coming up with one that would pull the manager's backside out of the fire.

[BrissySparkyCoit]

My guess is Mr Purvinas and Mr Norris were told "you want access? See you in court". I don't think Qantas would let them in so easily, especially when they have something to hide.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Just quickly guys. We did get limited access and were shuffled off to an office near the credo. We were given a powerpoint presentation regarding the NZ pricing. We have a tonne of follow up questions because some things in it just didn't add up and we need similar info on TG, BA and others.

Qantas have committed to work with us so we can do our own calculations and presentation showing that these contracts were lucrative and should return.

We have also agreed with them that info they pass on will remain confidental. So long as the flow of info doesn't stop we will not need to enforce our ROE.

[QF94]

We have a tonne of follow up questions because some things in it just didn't add up and we need similar info on TG, BA and others.


Things don't ad up due to the fact that QANTAS systematically "retrenched" each of the customer airlines telling them their business was unwanted and unwelcome, and that they needed all hands on deck to maintain QF aircraft as first priority.

The classic example was SQ when 20 positions from S.I.T. alone were made redundant due to the "loss" of that lucrative contract.

Now that we have let go of all the other contracts, we're now "overstaffed" and have to transfer people out of S.I.T. to rectify management's ongoing stuff-ups and incompetence.

It just goes to show, artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity!

[KING GEORGE II]

To the Fed Sec, although we here in club pineapple cairns did not lose kiwi, we were certainly threatened that it if we did lose the contract it would be because of the LAME's 'behaviour' and not mismanagement.
must of been them darn cones.
If you want to look at contracts, have a squiz at the one sniggi proposed to jet* with the training costs upfront. He wasn't trying to discourage the work, he just made a genuine %^&* up. :ugh:
His little subordinate was performing miracles at the time....:hmm:

[The Trumpet]

Regarding customer contracts - I've heard from a reliable source , that SQ have again approached QF in recent months for line maint support and even offered to throw in A380 training as well. QF must be the only airline in the world that is turning away work/training during the midst of a "recession". I wonder if the shareholders will be informed of these sorts of facts - obviously the company cannot use the extra revenue!

[QF94]

QF must be the only airline in the world that is turning away work/training during the midst of a "recession".

QF have been doing this for years. You only have to ask about the Air Canada contract. Air Canada were going to pay for the 777 training, and they were flatly refused when the times were good and there were plenty of people around to do the job.

[Big Unit]

So what is the outcome of the SIT xfers. Has it happened yet?

[Black Hands]

Just a quick question for those in the know.. If the membership were to withdraw from their extended hours roster agreement and return to an 8 hour shift, would there still be a requirement to transfer 12 blokes to the shed??

[AtALoss]

Regardless, the 8 hour shift should be re-introduce at all work locations.
Let's have quality time with our families instead of the relentless fight for the holy dollar.
When forced onto the 8 hr shift, I relearned the pleasure of being with my children as they grew up. I was less fatigued and cranky.
The money doesn't matter!
Since our big EBA win, and the loss of a huge amount of my salary due to workload / customer payments, I have learned to live on what I earn. Others I know lost more than I. They are still alive, and they also have learned to appreciate life.
Stop being greedy you lot.

[UPPERLOBE]

Can you explain how going in to work more often gives you more time at home?

The main benefit of extended shifts apart from more hours on penalty rates is less visits to work.

Have you forgotten single days off, working three weekends in a row, day shift at single time and 8 different start times?

[AtALoss]

Hi UPPERLOBE,
I think if you re-read my post, I said "quality time" with family.
Just because the company had you on anti-social rosters previously, don't believe this cannot be avoided if sufficient effort is put into designing a better way.
The company wants extended rosters. It suits them. They will make any other rosters as unpalatable as possible to achieve this.

[OlAME]

sooner or later thr chickens will cone home , then we will see who rules the roost.

[Jet-A-One]

Word is, the list comes out tomorrow (6th Nov).

And the 12 is now only 11...

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

The ALAEA are presenting some better ideas to them at 1400 tomorrow. I hope genuine consideration is given to our presentation. If they brush us aside, we will have to go to plan B.

[changeawhell]

So steve what was the outcome today? Did the 12 get notified or were you able to negotiate a better outcome? Not the nicest situation for those involved.

[company_spy]

I reckon the guys may as well have been talking to a brick wall, that's what management are like at QF.

They still haven't released the engagement survey results because they would have been smashed. Useless.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Hey guys,

I wasn't at the meeting last week but can sum up the report I had back from the Reps involved.

Our guys presented a number of ideas that delivered a more efficient operation to the tune of around 25 heads. The company said thank you, we will implement as many of them as possible and then announced that they were going to move the 12 LAMEs anyway.

That's what you get when you co-operate with this pack of *****S.

[company_spy]

lesson learnt then I guess, you can't co-operate with them. To them it's still a one way street of buggary.
Not to worry, we have long memories.

[Ngineer]

I think it is becoming obvious the writing is on the wall for the SIT guys. With flexibilities like "flexible rostering" within these newgen teams, why would the company even bother.

What goes around comes around.:cool:

[QF94]

Hey guys,

I wasn't at the meeting last week but can sum up the report I had back from the Reps involved.

Our guys presented a number of ideas that delivered a more efficient operation to the tune of around 25 heads. The company said thank you, we will implement as many of them as possible and then announced that they were going to move the 12 LAMEs anyway.

That's what you get when you co-operate with this pack of *****S.

And you were expecting??? Isn't that why you left them in the first place FedSec?

The move of the 12 LAME's from S.I.T. to Base was always happening. It was quiet for a while, but that didn't mean it wasn't happening. The management certainly wasn't waiting for you to come along and try and stop it. Who knows, they may use some of your ideas presented to them at the last meeting, and use them against us at a time of their choosing.

This is not to say you're not doing your job. You're doing all you can, but as you stated, "That's what you get when you co-operate with a pack of *****S."

In summary, it's the same game, just with different players, or different crap, but same stink!

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

We're not too pleased with the new managers. Every single change they force against our members wishes now becomes a new EA (EBA) claim for the next round in the second half of 2010.

We have very limited tools to fight them today but when our day comes, they will regret that they haven't accepted the hand of friendship we have offered them.

[Jethro Gibbs]

I would bet they won,t regret anything there are all on big money they could not careless management never changes no matter who they are.
Being flexible is a one way street there way or no way.

[sky rocket]

Bring on EBA IX.

[QF94]

We're not too pleased with the new managers. Every single change they force against our members wishes now becomes a new EA (EBA) claim for the next round in the second half of 2010.

We have very limited tools to fight them today but when our day comes, they will regret that they haven't accepted the hand of friendship we have offered them.

These managers only understand one thing, and friendship isn't it. If we recall the battle of 2008, none of the managers of the day are around now. We have a new team in play and pushing the same agenda. Then when the dust is settled, there will be a new team. Over the last 12 years or so there have been over 4 managers at S.I.T. By the time the next EBA is due, we'll be due another manager.

When the new EBA comes into play, this new team will be better positioned than the last. They're actually LAME's or former LAME's. They are building their allegiances in antcipation of a showdown and are dividing even further what is left of S.I.T. I guess that's why they have the new guy from Air NZ. He supposedly sorted them out, and has crossed the pond to sort us out. Best of luck to him and his team.

When all is said and done, managers come and go, policies come and go, but it is the LAME's and AME's that are still needed to bring in, service, and dispatch aeroplanes, pilots to fly them, flight attendants to serve the flying public, cleaners to make the cabin look presentable, catering to feed the flying public, baggage handlers to load and unload the flying public's luggage, honey cart guy to dump the flying public's crap, water guy to give the flying public drinking water, check-in staff to issue boarding passes to the flying public, etc etc, and all this is done without a manager in sight.

What is the REAL purpose of a manager? Can someone honestly tell me?

[Jethro Gibbs]

What is the REAL purpose of a manager? Can someone honestly tell me?

Answer

To screw as many people over as they can and leave with a huge cheque after doing next to nothing.

[Ngineer]

Bring on EBA IX.


They come round pretty quick.:ok:

[division1]

things do seem to be getting better, managers being forced to make
descisions, compliance levels increasing, maintenance comming home
to roost, and another 3% around the corner.

[QF94]

things do seem to be getting better, managers being forced to make descisions, compliance levels increasing, maintenance comming home
to roost, and another 3% around the corner.

The decisions being forced to be made. Hmmmm!! Don't know if they're the correct ones, but yes, decisions are being made.

Compliance levels increasing. Are they the online EQ Corporate compliance laws, and environmental awareness compliance courses you talk about. Yes, complaince levels are increasing.

Maintenance coming home. Yes, but other maintenance also being sent outside.

Another 3% around the corner. YES!!

[Jet-A-One]

I wouldn't like to have outstanding credits or redundant licences only at the moment.

[BigGun]

You ask why we need managers.

The real question is why would anyone be so silly to take the job! :}

[Short_Circuit]

Because Base have little multi licences left.
Desperate for acting senior lames with multi licence...
We have actors with as little as part of a single type licence running crews!!! :ugh::ugh:

[Jet-A-One]

Inductions 9th December.

[Ngineer]

SDT guys to SIT, SIT guys to Base, Base guys to Team 380.

And we all work the SDT aircraft. What a shamozzle, and a kick in the guts to those involved. Best of luck guys.

[Jet-A-One]

At least everyone's still got a job in their home port...

[ampclamp]

Anyone post the email/ news release if possible pls?