Qantas on track to become the worst airline...

[capt_akun]

Something of interest that came out two days ago. Haven't seen it appeared on the relevant threads, so I thought I'll post it up.

Australians reveal their worst airline | Travel News | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,28318,26002438-5014090,00.html)

Jetstar was the lowest-ranking airline for international satisfaction, with a 53 per cent satisfaction rating.

Qantas was second-lowest, with 59 per cent, and Virgin Blue third worst, with 65 per cent.



The usual suspect appears on the best list

Internationally, Singapore Airlines was rated number one for overall satisfaction, with a 78 per cent rating, followed by Emirates, Air New Zealand and Cathay Pacific.

[Aussie]

Clearly they havent taken into account many US airlines and European too.... Qantas has a long way to go to hit rock bottom yet.

[arkmark]

Sure, it's not the worst, but it looks like that is their aspiration...........

With NSW State Rail as their role model :8

[ditch handle]

Qantas has a long way to go to hit rock bottom yet

Ah, be assured however that cabin crew management are working on it.

[teresa green]

Thats a bit rich, whilst we all bitch and complain compared to some OS carriers QF an JQ are almost respectable. You would have to drag me screaming back on Emirites again, no luggage, some never to be seen again, the rest arrived a week later, my dog would have not eaten the food (and thats saying something, because he specializes in thongs) and the flight attendents seem to have trouble understanding english, especially "do you mind helping my wife (who is 48 ks ringing wet) get her bag into the overhead locker" nah, I will stick to the aussie airlines, at least I get abused and neglected in my own lingo.

[Sonny Hammond]

Bad luck with EK. That can happen on any airline really.

I just went on the A380 in business and that was by far the best pax experience i've had on any airline.
And, I'm a boeing man.

[Clipped]

And how come this poll doesn't tally with all those 'Qantas sponsored' surveys?

Why is it that AJ, very recently, said that customer satisfaction levels have been very high.

But ... we have a new (or another) Centre of Excellence. Saved.

Who's telling porkies here?

[snoop doggy dog]

QF is by far superior to other carries out of HK to OZ :ok:

The Cabin Crew are friendly and helpful. It is all too easy for them. Unlike another carrier, even when travelling in J Class, they are too busy running around doing F@ck all, to even notice you would like a drink! :mad:

It suprised as I have heard some much bad publicity about them. If it's a day flight, they are always my first preference back, then anyone except for CX, then CX.

Get my vote and I don't even work for 'em! ;)

[teresa green]

Arkmark, the missus all her life has tried to put weight ON, but her slight frame covers the fact she is a human dynamo, as any of her 6ft plus sons would testify, but to see her struggle with her bag whilst the flight attendents stood by idly ( I was late boarding) really annoyed me, perhaps because we were on staff travel, they thought "stuff em" I don't know, and had it not been for a male PAX who got up and helped her, she was in serious danger of dropping the whole box and dice on herself and yes we were travelling business. Would it not give you the sh$ts had it been your mum/wife?

[PA39]

:mad:Fly with AeroMexico or Mexicana Airways....really give them something to whinge about !!!

[mrpaxing]

when fair trading get 1560 or so complaints. How many punters fly domesticially/internationally in/out of OZ?
I call it is once again stupid journalism. those guys should be sacked for stupidity!!!:yuk::=

[parakeet]

but to see her struggle with her bag whilst the flight attendents stood by idly

???

It is not a flight attendants job to lift baggage. If you are unable to lift it yourself (sounds like it was too heavy to be on board in the first place), check it in, or put it under the seat in front. Don't cede responsibilty to someone else.
Flight attendants are there to assist. Perhaps they could have been more responsive in suggesting an alternative - like placing it under the seat in front.....
My question to you is - where were YOU when this was all going on? Why didn't YOU help?

As for being on staff travel... I would be surprised if any crew knew who was on subload at the boarding phase of the flight.
And did you consider that perhaps they were unable to leave the area of their door during that phase of boarding??? Was the aircraft still being refuelled? Were there other flight attendants in the vicinity?

Surprised that someone travelling on staff travel is not aware of how things work......

Back on thread - every flight (every crew) can be different. I've had dodgy trips on QF and great trips on QF. I've even had dodgy trips on SQ and CX. If you fly often enough on a single carrier to be able to recognise a pattern then fair enough to be able to comment. Otherwise, it's all subjective and a fairly moot point.

[aseanaero]

The consistently worst airline for me was United (I was regularly commuting on BA, SQ, Cathay, United, Qantas, JAL and Garuda), one example in business class the passenger next to me was using her computer when her meal arrived , a large grumpy faced lady flight attendant said in a loud and very rude voice "move yer stuff !" and then half dropped the meal tray onto the table in front of the passenger, not on I'm afraid.

Qantas is a mid fielder now in terms of economy cabin crew service. 20 years ago they were one of the best. If I've purchased a discount economy ticket I don't expect to be treated like a king but Qantas service in business class is still very good.

[lamax]

If you are short there is no way you can stow overhead baggage , Teresa said he boarded later and couldn't assist , what is wrong with working outside your job description occasionally and remember pax pay your wages , not vice versa.

[Keg]

It is not a flight attendants job to lift baggage. If you are unable to lift it yourself (sounds like it was too heavy to be on board in the first place), check it in, or put it under the seat in front. Don't cede responsibilty to someone else.

At 48kg, I suspect that Mrs Green's problem wasn't that the bag was too heavy but that the overhead bin was too high. Certainly that's the impression I got from reading the comments. Let's be honest, some packages can meet the legal limit of 7kg and yet the type of package and the size of the person means that some assistance is required.

Still, that attitude of 'it's not my job' doesn't surprise me.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3686/image004bfi.jpg

[TugTellum]

A common theme amongst some these days Keg. Looks like parakeet is more interested in pointing the finger than lifting one.

[teresa green]

Parakeet, I was late boarding, and came in at the tail end. (2) It was a simply standard cabin bag she was trying to hoist into the overhead locker, normal weight. (3) Cabin Managers, and some staff know from the manafest know EXACTLY who are staff and who are not, (4) it did not seem to concern the male PAX, to help a rather slight middle aged lady to get her luggage stored away, (and he was not paid to do it) its called consideration, perhaps even manners. There is no way I could walk past some struggling female pax without helping, and I suggest most of the people posting on PPrune could not either, but perhaps the attitude of pilots are a little different to SOME cabin crew.:(

[toolowtoofast]

I don't agree with you saying the CC should have put your wife's bag away TG. CC have plenty of other things to do, and stowing pax bags is not one of them. What if 100 pax couldn't stow their overhead bag - should the CC be doing all of those? You then complain about other pax not helping - so what is your actual complaint? CC who's job is NOT stowing bags, other pax (who I wouldn't rely on at all), or the fact that you were late boarding and got grumped at by your wife?

I would have thought those on staff travel would take every step to make their co-worker's day that little bit easier, rather than whinge about them.

[teresa green]

Sigh, your mob just don't get it do you. Have you ever heard of helping, manners, decency, consideration? I will try to explain it this way, how would you like your mum/girlfriend/wife/nan, treated on a aircraft you were working on? I suspect with the above. No wonder there is so much complaints from pax if that is now the current C/C attitude, from SOME cabin crew. Nobody is asking you to heave bags into the overhead lockers, just to assist someone who is struggling, not to hard is it?:ugh:

[lowerlobe]

but to see her struggle with her bag whilst the flight attendents stood by idly ( I was late boarding) really annoyed me,
Teresa Green....So you saw her struggling but did not help her yourself...???

So you think that it is not your position to help your wife but the Cabin Crew instead?
Have you ever heard of helping, manners, decency, consideration?
If I was with my wife I would not be waiting for anyone else to help her....

[BrissySparkyCoit]

I will try to be unbiased, but here is my list from best to worst of the carriers I have traveled with over the last 24 months (Class traveled as marked)...

Japan Airlines J (BNE-NRT-BNE)
Qantas J (BNE-HKG-BNE)
Eva Air J (BNE-TPE.... I haven't come home yet!)
Cathay Y (HKG-LHR, HKG-NGO)
Qantas Y (LHR-HKG)
Dragon Air Y (HKG-KHH-HKG)
Jetstar (BNE-AVV)
Virgin Blue (BNE-SYD)
British Airways Y (HKG-LHR)

I have friends and relatives who have traveled with Etihad who have said they will never travel with them again.

Qantas may not be Singapore airlines when it comes to service, but there is a loooong way to go before they hit the bottom.

It seems there are some Aussies who like to bash anything Australian.... Qantas, Holden etc.

[DEFCON4]

Qantas and its marketing machine create a customer expectation.
The reality is that the resources are not made available by Qantas to meet that expectation.
Therein lies the problem...an expectation gap.
As far as CC helping with stowage of luggage..if its too heavy for the customer its too heavy for the flight attendant.80% of QF LH CC are women who are not built like front row forwards.Many a flight attendant has had their career cut short by a back injury or rotor cuff damage by stowing baggage in over head lockers.
A 40kg underwater camera grounded a colleague with a back injury for six months.While off he was harassed by his CC TM .
Get the Cabin Service management team to change their attitude toward CC injuries and assistance with luggage stowage will improve.
CC are not lazy but are mindful of consequences.
Teresa Green are you too old and feeble to carry your wife's carry on luggage?

[parakeet]

The reality is that the resources are not made available by Qantas to meet that expectation.
Therein lies the problem...an expectation gap.

Bingo.

Tug, Keg, Lamax... I'm know this is a rumour network and sometimes facts and common sense tend to float to the bottom.

Did you know that CC are subject to OH&S requirements as well as Civil Aviation Regulations? Hard to believe isn't it!!!?

Lets take the emotion out of the argument for a moment and take a look at a fact;
Company OH&S states clearly that I am NOT ALLOWED to handle pax baggage. By doing so, I am breaching company protocol and therefore technically voiding any recourse to medical insurance etc etc....

Civil Aviation Regulations may have prevented the FA from leaving the vicinity of his/her door at the time? But, of course, we don't have all of the facts, so we'll just have to speculate until TG gives us some clarification.

The very fact that I still assist with pax baggage regardless suggests I'm either completely foolhardy or as is really the case, attempt to bridge the gap between reality and expectations as best I can with the time and resources available to me at the time.
Many/most FA's, at least at my airline, do their best to assist where possible.

TG, I find it terribly difficult to believe that this FA you speak of stood 'idly by' while all of this was going on.
I am really looking forward to hearing;
A) What you were doing while all of this was going on (I can only assume that you were present?)?
B) Why did you or your wife not politely request assistance (or at least ask politely why none could be offered?)?

Overall TG, what I find most disappointing about your post is that you were travelling on a staff ticket, yet instead of doing everything in your power to assist at the time, you seem to stew about the situation and then vent at the usual soft target (and a colleague at that) on an anonymous forum.
Why bother?

DEFCON4 has pretty much hit the nail on the head. Sadly, there will always be those people who choose not to see through the bull****.

[hadagutfull]

Overall.. If you cant lift it yourself above shoulder height.... then it should be in the cargo hold..... simple!!

Checkin staff should also be weighing carryon luggage to make sure these shrewd passengers are not pulling a fast one to escape paying excess luggage charges by putting their heavy crap in their hand luggage.

Ive been denied a boarding pass in the past because the aircaft was on its max brakes release weight..... so they say.

How many of these unweighed bags would have been over the load control calculated weight??

It does not take a lot to damage yourself picking up something that looks "light" to find its a 15kg piece of hand luggage

Im not an F/A.... just seen it many times before and its my 2 bob worth :ok:

[Jelly Shots]

There are a couple of points worth mentioning here.
The first is that technically f/a's are not supposed to leave their door during boarding.The number of cabin crew have been reduced over the last few years and if something happens how could you possibly get back to your door to carry out an evacuation?
The service department have a different idea of what is important to what our primary role really is.
The second thing is that if someone is that short that they cannot reach the overhead lockers why didn't they ask for help?
Doesn't take much to politely ask someone especially if they have flown before and know that they will have difficulty reaching the locker.
The lady in question must be very short because how do the f/a's on some of the Asian carriers manage?

[indamiddle]

things are going downhill quickly now. i was wondering why the bars on board 747's weren't chilled when boarding the flight in SIN (the flight originated in LHR). my manager informed me yesterday that QF no longer pay for dry ice to be loaded in bar cart tops. now these bar carts are loaded in LHR, they are not attached to chilled air, dry ice is not loaded so 15 or 16 hours after QF10 leaves SIN to MEL you have lovely warm beer, white wine and soft drinks. i imagine that the same thing is happening on flights via BKK and HKG as well. next time you get a warm, not chilled, beer or whatever just remember that someone who made this decision has increased their bonus! don't blame the crew

[Orangputi]

Atleast with Qantas you will always get a second cup of coffee as there are plently of boilers in the galley!

[DEFCON4]

The remark about boilers is a cliche made a poster who is himself a cliche.
Qantas Executive Group Manager Cabin Services is convinced QF is the worlds best airline.In her world it might be but in reality...the real world...it definitely is not.Underesourced and expensive Qantas continually falls short of customer expectations.Wake up Lesley the customers are voting with their feet and flying with other carriers who spend sufficiently to ensure a superior product

[teresa green]

Perhaps because I was stuck behind a mother trying to board with 3 little kids, I assisted her as she struggled with kids, hand luggage, etc. As I turned into J class my wife was struggling to get a perfectly legal cabin bag into the overhead locker, as stated before she is of small statue, and two female cabin crew members simply stood and watched. I don't care what your union says or what you think is to hard, I will repeat for the last time , its called, manners, consideration, grace, the cabin crew of my era from the 60s to the 90s would have thought nothing of assisting, but the "all about me" has permeated the airlines bigtime and it shows, it is simply the way of the world and you people and your thinking are the way of the future. "its not my job" charming.:ugh:

[midway7081]

Well thats what happens when a Qantas guts their maintenance crews here in Australia then work is done overseas by second rate companies.

I use to fly Qantas. I now catch the train.

[404 Titan]

DEFCON4 & hadagutfull

How old are you both? I bet you wouldn’t be mouthing off such rubbish when you are in your 70’s or 80’s, riddled with arthritis and had several broken collar bones.

I work for an Asian carrier and I would be embarrassed if our girls didn’t help some passengers put their carry-on luggage in the overhead locker. It’s just plain manners. Something that is becoming noticeably absent in this increasingly selfish nanny state called Australia. :yuk:

If overweight cabbin baggage is a problem and we know it sometimes is, pressure should be place on the airlines and the regulators to have all carry on baggage weighed at check in.

[DEFCON4]

My last word on this.
Company OH and S policy determines what I can and cant do regarding carry on luggage and its stowage.
That has already been made clear to you
I have a family that I support through my income.Injuring myself at work means time off from work and a reduced income.Others have been "managed out of the business"through enduring rotor cuff or back injury.I do not intend to join their ranks and jeopardise my family's financial security.
Customers load up their carry on baggage to avoid paying an excess.I am very attentive to women with children and the elderly when it comes to baggage assistance.
Injury to personnel is also part of my KPIs.Part of my responsibilty is to limit potential injury to my crew and therefore assist in minimizing lost time through injury.
Passenger carry on is their responsiblity.Crew will assist so long as it is not to their own physical detriment.
Next time when of his girls injures herself lifting heavy in cabin baggage it would be hoped Titan 404 contibrutes 10% of his salary while she is off work.

[aulglarse]

Where in the hell did TG's say that his wife's bag was overweight? She's short for goodness sake and needed help!

[packrat]

Under the seat in front of her would have been the best place for Mrs G's baggage.

[lowerlobe]

This has got slightly out of hand and the basics forgotten...

It has been asked how did TG know his wife was struggling when he wasn't there?

If TG's wife is short and has problem reaching the overhead locker why did she not ask someone for help?

Surely she must have flown before if she is married to a pilot and would have known that she would have problems.It's not as if this was her first flight.TG must have also known that she would have problems and did he say wait till I get there and I will help or ask someone for help.

The OH&S aspect has been mentioned but conveniently ignored by some here as well....how can cabin crew walk up to a pax and say.."before I help you can you prove to me that your bag weighs no more than the allowable limit"....

C'Mon guys how many pax would admit their bag is over the limit?

The next thing you know is that you've injured yourself and the job is at risk because you have trued to help someone else...it has happened to so many cabin crew.

For years the pilots have used cabin crew to get everything from better allowances to the new legislation regarding cockpit access.AIPA president Barry Jackson said the Senate had disallowed a flawed piece of legislation about which pilots were not consulted.

He said the strict liability meant that a captain would be responsible if a flight attendant inadvertently left a cockpit door unlocked.
I agree with the challenge to the legislation and it's overturning but why did he suggest it would only be a F/A who might leave the door opened inadvertently?......it wouldn't be one of the tech crew would it...no.....tech crew never make mistakes do they?

TG's example sounds more to me as just another example of anti cabin crew attitude...

If TG's wife cannot reach the overhead locker then do the obvious..

Ask for help instead of bagging cabin crew yet again....

[twiggs]

What a tragic thread drift.
Mrs Green can not be expected to lift her own bag into the locker on her own, that's true.
She should know just to wait with her bag on or near her seat until her husband arrives or until she has a chance to approach the cabin staff for assistance if they have not noticed her situation already.
That assistance could be to stow the bag somewhere where she can reach.
There is no hurry, after all there were still passengers boarding which was perhaps a reason why the cabin staff were waiting before assisting Mrs Green.
Mrs Green put other people in a difficult position by trying to do something that she knew she would not be capable of.
I'm sure the staff would have assisted if approached, like you say it is common decency.(not to mention Emirates business class service!)

[bulstrode]

Lack of resources.ie crew in the cabin
Fear of injury and consequent harrassment from CCTM
Loss of employment through injury.
Qantas OH and S corporate policy.
These and other reasons are why qantas is ontrack to become the worlds worst legacy carrier

[twiggs]

The incident that Teresa is referring to happened on Emirates.
An airline with plenty of cabin crew and very few OH&S regs.
Keep up will ya.

[404 Titan]

DEFCON4

OH&S issues in Aus give me the sh**s. Blood sucking leaches on society that are an industry in themselves that are dragging Aus down the toilet. If only government got off peoples backs and would allow them to use common sense and got the regulator to mandate the weighing of checked bags at check in or at the boarding gate we wouldn’t be talking about this rubbish. The sooner people opened their eyes and started to realise that Australia has become a nanny state because of over governance the better. Common sense is what should be expected, common sense.

Why should I have to contribute one cent to someone that injures themself at work. They have only injured themself because the cheap skate company doesn't enforce their own regs regarding carry on bags. Your union should be fighting this by taking legal action against the company for negligence. It’s amazing what a little legal action will do to focus your manager’s attention.

[Jelly Shots]

I remember a CSM who took some initiative and brought a small spring loaded device normally used to weight fish.
If a bag looked heavy as it was carried on during boarding he would ask to weigh it.He did this out of frustration with ground staff not enforcing the regs.
Over 90% of the bags he weighed were over the max allowable weight.
This was going fine until a FF in J/C took exception to being shown that his bag was vastly over weight.

The result as you might have guessed was the CSM being called into the office and told not to do that again.They were not interested in the slightest that the bags were overweight.I would have thought they would issue all CSM's with the same device but that would upset our precious FF's.

Then some pilots here wonder why we are reluctant to lift passengers bags.You can have your career cut short by trying to help and all teresa green can talk about is manners, consideration, grace

I remember talking to an American airlines F/A in a customs queue and asked what their policy was with carry on baggage.

She replied "If they pack it they stack it?

[Jelly Shots]

Your union should be fighting this by taking legal action against the company for negligence.
404 Titan,well said but that would not happen with this union.pity

[teresa green]

My wife does not like to ask for help, she understands that travelling on staff travel, one should not ask for help unless absolutely neccessary as the paying pax come first. On the other hand on a trip to NRT last month on JQ, may I say the cabin crew were ab fab. Help with cabin luggage no problem, no mention of unions, sore backs, or boredom, just a happy crew, who were cheerful, caring and good fun, so thankyou Cabin Manager Stephanie and your great crew from OOL to NRT you made our trip delightful. (It does still happen)!:D

[lowerlobe]

teresa green...

With all respect if your wife is of such a height that she cannot reach the overhead locker and if her bag was not overweight she should have asked for help whether she is staff or not.

[packrat]

The greatest thread drift in PPruNe history

[teresa green]

Lowerlobe/packrat give us a break. Your attitude to pax regardless if staffers or paying pax says it all. If the drivers had the same attitude (its not our job/ its to hard) then there would be smoking black holes all over the place, if you don't like your job, go elsewhere, and leave flying and the airlines to the cabin crew who care like the above mentioned JQ Cabin Crew and Cabin Manager, or even better become union reps (if you arn't already) they need people like you, you are well suited, don't waste your time flogging the isles, get into the nitty gritty of it all, stir up some REAL trouble, become a voice for the downtrodden, and show the airlines who is REALLY the boss, off you go like good chaps, and the rest of us can breathe a sigh of relief...............:ugh:

[lowerlobe]

Teresa Green...

I prefaced my last post with the words 'With all respect' and have tried to deal with this topic unemotionally and diplomatically...

What do we get in return with your reply...a personal attack and sarcasm.

Your resorting to this sort of reply shows the reality of your mythical scenario for what it is and instead displays your real attitude to Cabin Crew....

By the way did you mean flogging the aisles...not
don't waste your time flogging the isles
Although what flogging the isles or aisles is supposed to mean is anyone's guess but I think your flogging a dead horse with this story....:oh:

[Orangputi]

Whilst this is a major thread drift it actually highlights the fundemental problem with Qantas's in flight service i.e Attiitude.

Why do you think the punters are voting with their feet when you have people who are supposed to serve with an over-inflated sense of self importance. Just look at how this full fare paying passenger was treated in this forum! He doesnt have to explain himself you as frontline staff have to do much better. An overhaul is needed here and not just cabin crew management as has been opined, each one of the serving staff needs a little perspective.

I will stick with SQ no attitude good service and no lip from staff when I ask a simple request without an OH&S excuse or for another beer!

Sometimes the Truth is a bitter pill to swallow

[bulstrode]

Which passenger are you talking about?
Where is the evidence of self importance?
Serving Staff?
You mean "safety" staff dont you?
Stick with SQ and make every other airline Safety staff happy.

[lowerlobe]

You will never please someone who is ex-staff and who by their own admission prefers a certain type of female F/A.....

If you read his location and his previous posts you will get my drift....

[Orangputi]

No problem,

I will take my full fare business class money elsewhere as most of the expats where I live do, wake up people! QF is not even a shadow of its former self.

I know I would rather be served ( and understand the word serve which is what you are supposed to do like a waitress or waiter) by someone who appreciates my custom and not treat me like a annoyance and who is not a middle age boiler or would be the front dancer at the next priscilla queen of the desert musical.

As I have said previously I have total respect for the tech staff (world class) but the inflight product is just crap.

[HANOI]

Lowerlobe

"Although what flogging the isles or aisles is supposed to mean is anyone's guess but I think your flogging a dead horse with this story...."

Did you mean you're

[twiggs]

I can just see the look on the SIA stewardess's face as she walks away from orangputi after it has just asked her for a beer, mistaking her smile for sexual interest.
As she get's to the galley, if not before, she exclaims "ang moh bodoh nak mampus"