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wes_wall
22nd Feb 2002, 01:06
Soon to be released, and soon to spark another round of controversy.

EgyptAir crash "intentional". .Agence France-Presse. .21feb02

US federal investigators have concluded the 1999 crash of EgyptAir Flight 990 off the US Atlantic coast was the result of intentional human action, sources close to the probe said.

A report compiled by the investigators states the Boeing 767 crashed 100 kilometres south of Nantucket Island "as a result of the relief first officer's flight control inputs," said the sources familiar with the document.

All 217 people aboard died.

The five presidential appointees who head the NTSB are reviewing the report, which will not become final until a majority of those members vote to accept it.

Their votes are due next week.

At the time of the crash, the Cairo-bound plane was controlled by co-pilot Gamil El-Batouty, who according to on-board recording devices, uttered something resembling a prayer before sending the airliner toward the ocean.

That has led to speculations that Batouty could have been on a suicide mission and intentionally crashed the plane.

EgyptAir officials have vehemently rejected the allegations, saying Batouty was a well-balanced family man and an experienced pilot who could not have committed suicide.

But the sources said the investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) had found no evidence of a mechanical failure of the aircraft "that would have caused or contributed to" a dive at the speed of sound that preceded the jet's disintegration and crash.

According to the sources, the investigators argue in the report that Batouty was the only person in the cockpit when the Boeing went into a dive at about 1.50am (1750 AEDT) on October 31, 1999.

They argue that only Batouty could have pushed the aircraft into the dive and cut both engines back to their idle settings.

His voice, as captured on the cockpit voice recorder, expressed no surprise or symptoms of stress at the start of the dive or during the half minute of recording that followed it, the investigators found.

When the captain returned to the cockpit shortly after the beginning of the dive and asked what was happening, Batouty replied in Arabic: "I rely on God," a phrase he repeated before and after that more than a dozen times, the sources said.

The investigators noted that within seconds, the plane's two elevators, which normally move in unison to control its up-and-down motion, moved in opposite directions.

The elevator on the captain's side moved up, as it would to pull the airplane out of the dive. The elevator on the right, or Batouty's side, moved down.

The investigators cite this elevator "split" as evidence that the pilots were fighting for control of the airplane, the sources said.

They said that no mechanical failure could explain the behaviour of the elevators during and after the split.

After the cockpit and flight data recorders stopped at about 1.50am radar data showed the Boeing 767 climbing back up to 25,000 feet (7,500 metres), then breaking up.

Throughout the incident, the captain's actions "were consistent with an attempt to recover" from the dive, the investigators said in their report, while "the relief first officer's were not," according to the sources.

Shore Guy
22nd Feb 2002, 11:09
A fairly long read, but worth it. One of the best articles I have read on aviation in a mainline publication. But then again, look at the last name of the writer.....

<a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/11/langewiesche.htm" target="_blank">http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/11/langewiesche.htm</a>

TheDrop
22nd Feb 2002, 11:44
"EgyptAir officials have vehemently rejected the allegations, saying Batouty was a well-balanced family man and an experienced pilot who could not have committed suicide. "

Right ! Mohammad Atta was also well balanced, and according to his father, could never had done such a thing.

flapsforty
22nd Feb 2002, 13:03
Shore Guy, thank you for that link.. .Long & chilling read, but very informative.

Mago
22nd Feb 2002, 13:43
"The elevator on the captain's side moved up, as it would to pull the airplane out of the dive. The elevator on the right, or Batouty's side, moved down.

The investigators cite this elevator "split" as evidence that the pilots were fighting for control of the airplane, the sources said."

Do they mean control column, instead of "elevator"?

Every one that has ever done things such as that, are regarded later by their families as "very good and nice persons, you must be mistaken there is no way that he/she could have done it".....

Blacksheep
22nd Feb 2002, 13:53
I argued Batouty's corner against all the suppositions and speculation made on incomplete evidence on this site during the initial investigation. After Boeing were finally moved to conduct appropriate in-depth examinations of elevator control system wreckage and conducted proper and in-depth investigations of failure modes, the trail lead right back to Batouty. Once a proper empirical examination of the elevator control system was documented, I was finally convinced that he deliberately crashed the aircraft. An accident investigation must consider ALL possible alternatives then work through them, not rely on a single source or theory. Many people have been convicted of serious crimes on the basis of incomplete but apparently damning evidence, then subsequently found to have been innocent. You may recall that there were unresolved problems with the elevator power control units at the time.

[Interestingly, despite considerable research and in depth analysis of failed components, Boeing has still not discovered the reason for the B767 elevator input bellcrank shear rivet failures and the only action available is to continue the 400 hour "single source" inspections. Which continue to find sheared rivets, but I digress]

But this article isn't a balanced and reasoned account at all. It contains misreading of the time line and the order of events, supposition about events that were not recorded and all the other things that alarmed me at the time. These inaccuracies are embedded into what superficially appears to be an impartial assessment, making me wonder what the writers motives were. Why change the order of events to fit the theory? Did he read the same NTSB charts and print outs that are published for the rest of us to see? The article includes most of the original suppositions and goes further in attacking the Egyptian delegation for their dogged insistance on keeping the investigation going. The cost to the American taxpayer is immaterial, the US Government were asked to carry out the investigation and voluntarily agreed to do so. Any Americans who are bothered by the cost can take it up with their Congressional Representative.

I'm still astonished that someone within the investigation leaked an inaccurate version of the words spoken by Batouty and that no inquiry into who did this has ever been reported. The case was 'solved' and blame apportioned almost as soon as the CVR had been read. There is still no explanation of the reason for the NTSB's violation of their own rules about the composition of investigating teams.

It wasn't just the Egyptian delegation that were disturbed by the way things were done. I have no connection whatsoever with EgyptAir but I was alarmed too. The fact is that this investigation was not in the best traditions of the NTSB. The leaks and the supposition that arose from them were inexcusable and we can only hope that they never indulge in such a disgraceful performance again. It will be a long time before the NTSB recovers their reputation for impartial and thorough investigation.

**********************************. .Through difficulties to the cinema

[ 23 February 2002: Message edited by: Blacksheep ]</p>

alapt
22nd Feb 2002, 13:53
No they actually mean "elevator" split. In case of control system malfunction (IE. cable or Hyd. problems), some flight controls can and will split when differential forces are applied to control columm. Greater pressures than normal are required to split a system, in the area of 65 to 100 Ft/Lbs.

GlueBall
22nd Feb 2002, 18:11
Blacksheep:

To be sure, the investigation "took so long" and at U.S. taxpayer cost of $17 Million Dollars, not because F/O Batouty's actions were in doubt, but because of bilateral politics.

Upon recovery of the FDR and its data, it was immediately established that both fuel ignition switches had been turned off.

Obviously there is no imaginable inflight emergency or probability, at night over water, which would call for such a suicidal measure.. .It takes two human fingers to pull and position those two spring loaded lever locked switches! <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Belgique
22nd Feb 2002, 19:09
You can read more about Blacksheep's dogged quest for the truth on the original 9 page thread here:

<a href="http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum1/HTML/009329.html" target="_blank">http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum1/HTML/009329.html</a>

Airbubba
22nd Feb 2002, 21:56
&gt;&gt;EgyptAir officials have vehemently rejected the allegations, saying Batouty was a well-balanced family man and an experienced pilot who could not have committed suicide.&lt;&lt;

Yep, as I said in the thread referenced above:

"The FBI interviews attached to the NTSB release cited above indicate multiple reports of behaviour not considered politically correct in America, i.e. masturbating in the window in front of young women, offering the maid $100 to come to his room on the night of the crash etc. While it may be argued that this is nothing unusual for Arab airline crewmembers (if you've flown in the Middle East, you'll know this sort of thing does happen fairly often), it would at least bring into question the prime suspect's mental stability."

I think the argument that Muslims wouldn't commit suicide and murder has lost its popular appeal in recent months.

jakowalsky
25th Feb 2002, 08:27
If you want an interesting read look at an addition to the NTSB's EA990 public docket that was added on 5/15/01 (9 months after the release of the docket). They FBI transcripts of interviews of EgyptAir pilots that new Batouti. You can find them in exhibit 14 addendum 5, dated feb 12, 2001.

<a href="http://www.ntsb.gov/events/EA990/docket/EAContents.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ntsb.gov/events/EA990/docket/ EAContents.htm</a>

[ 25 February 2002: Message edited by: photojeff ]</p>

Blacksheep
26th Feb 2002, 13:22
I'm glad to see that someone else is reading the docket. Most of the people who post on this subject have never done so or have only read small parts of it.

**********************************. .Through difficulties to the cinema

Basil
26th Feb 2002, 15:19
The Atlantic article by William Langewiesche - probably the most comprehensive and sensible newspaper aviation article I've ever read.. .Thank you for the URL.

FFFlyer
27th Feb 2002, 23:19
This isn't my idea of a well balanced family man:

<a href="http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/egyptair1.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/egyptair1.shtml</a>

Sounds to me like he was off his head.