Belize 1990 [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

FFly

30th Aug 2009, 19:40

In the first three months of 1990, I was the Dental Officer attached to the Field Surgical Team at Airport Camp Belize.
The OC UK Forces Belize got fed up with the FST hanging round the swimming pool at APC ogling the wives, and “suggested” that we went out into the surrounding areas to provide what medical care we could. In my case this meant extracting teeth in jungle clearings, and in the surgeon’s case this meant giving aspirin to people with terminal cancer as there were no other options in a country with a very rudimentary health system
As Dental Officer I was “encouraged “to use my alleged anaesthetic skills while the surgeons used their surgical skills to treat the common problems like inguinal hernias and the like at the main hospital at Belmopan (The only hospital I have ever been to with no doctors except those provided by the Army)
I remember being involved in a case at the end of an operating list when a local turned up saying that he had been having problems with a neighbour who had stuffed a candle up his rectum (allegedly!!) The candle ended up pinned to the wall in the Hospital mess at APC!!
As part of being told to leave the swimming pool and go forth and do good medically I spent a lot of time in the left hand seat of a Puma adjacent to a Sqn Ldr whose name I have forgotten.. We went to many places, but the Sqn Ldr used to ignore the military net and use a CB radio to announce his presence to various hotels in the middle of the jungle where he would land for lunch.
20 years on and I an planning to return to Belize with my wife, and would like to revisit the places I visited as a young Officer.
Anyone have an idea where would be a hotel with a group of thatched huts with an HLS behind in the middle of Belize, frequented by a Sqn Ldr with a penchant for cheap lunch??

Hugh

Gravelbelly

30th Aug 2009, 20:53

In the early 1990s, as a young STAB infantry officer, I volunteered for a trawl that was looking for exercise umpires for the Belize battlegroup. Of course, the VC10 flights ran midweek, and the exercise was due to start at the weekend. And the flight before the exercise was full. So, we flew via Dulles (on Bill Clinton's inauguration day) and arrived a week and a half before anyone wanted us.

A bunch of us sorted out a sub-aqua course on an island called Ambergris Caye, and stayed in a town called San Pedro; we did the diving at a reasonably luxurious hotel (with thatched roofs, but then they all seemed to have them) a km or two north-east of the town. That first weekend, who should appear but a Puma load of the RAF's finest out of APC, including some female officers. The pilots removed growbags to reveal their swimming cossies, and to our eternal shame, beat us at volleyball before heading off to their lunch (our excuse was that as a random bunch of UK-based types, our skills could not match those honed on a diet of "Top Gun" and sunshine).

Needless to say, on hearing that they were going to do some flying into Guatemala (legally, as it was a disaster recovery gig) we suggested that they drop us off at one of the larger and more famous stone ziggurats in the area, and pick us up on the way back out. They wouldn't go for it, for some strange reason...

Sun Who

30th Aug 2009, 21:10

I did 6 months at Butcher Radar in 1990. 5 mornings - 9 days off, 5 afternoons - 9 days off. Scuba diving on the cayes and pretty much using the Puma det as personal taxis.
Raul's Rose Garden for a swift Belikin (and nothing else) on the way home from the city in the very early am. The Maple Leaf outside camp - the only pub I've ever been in that had walls but no roof.
Great place, great times.

Sun Who

Tiger_mate

30th Aug 2009, 22:28

The Sqn Ldr with the local contacts is now a civilian, though working indirectly for the military. Names on here is a no-no, but send a PM and all will be revealed. He was OC 1563 in the first 3 months of 1990, and at that time; my boss. I think that you will find that Belize has changed beyond all recognition since those days, and that a small hotel complex of a few mud huts is now a major leisure complex. The weekend retreat was Journeys End Hotel on Ambegris Caye. ..or an afternoon on Caye Chapel.

....if the jungle visit of doctor and dentist was Jalacte (Hal-act-aye) village, I was on board.

....I also flew to Guatemala (legally) but it had nothing to do with a disaster, nor were the reasons for the visit sinister in any way.

Flying Microphone

31st Aug 2009, 02:53

FFly

I'm currently back in Belize having first come here with BFBS in 1992.

As was mentioned above, the place has changed beyond all recognition from your time here, but is still great.

Journeys End and the Puma flights on a Sunday... happy days. Always packed a long sleeved shirt to try and blag a flight back to APC.

San Pedro is huge now and Belikin is drinkeable these days (thanks to a German Meister Brewer).

Was your jungle lodge HLS per chance at Chaa Creek? Small world if it was as I just spent a weekend there and the HLS was pointed out by a 25 Flight pilot friend. Chaa Creak has been a regular haunt of Belize based forces for years.

There was also JB's restaurant on the Western Highway beyond the zoo. The owners (and all the old military odds and sods) are now a short distance along the Western Highway at Cheers.

pm me if you're looking at coming over.

Cheers

Roger Sofarover

31st Aug 2009, 06:54

FFly

Huge, I remember you well. I also flew you and the surgeon you mention first name D wasnt it?. Send a PM. Ah those nights drinking 151 and coke and Pina Coladas in the swamp.

Gweedo

You must have a better picture of Journeys end than the horrible dirty field we used to land on at the back :)

Remember the trips out to Caracol the Aztec ruins, and all the others. Oh for a time machine!

sisemen

31st Aug 2009, 07:29

Did a very quick whizzy around MOD staff tour in Sep 89 to let the Treasury have a look at the guys' conditions regarding food and accommodation charges. Needless to say we were whizzed all over the place in a mixture of Gazelles and Pumas.

A couple of places we stopped off at were these:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c92/allan907/Belize_0001.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c92/allan907/Belize_0002.jpg

I'm sure that someone out there must be able to identify them. I need to put a caption on the pix (and also have a look on Google Earth!)

The Cryptkeeper

31st Aug 2009, 08:58

Hugh,
I spent a couple of years at 25 Flight recently (and on Gazelles a while back) and as Flying Microphone says it sounds like Chaa Creek although I wouldn't be surprised if the place you mentioned either no longer exists or is going under a new name and has been completely rebuilt!!
As you probably know Belize has, over the last 15 years, changed from what was a sleepy Caribbean back water to a real up and coming tourist destination - consequently there are a lot of jungle lodges springing up in the Mountain Pine Ridge area, many of these with HLS's. The current training done by BATSUB tends to happen in that area as well and up towards Gallon Jug which means that the majority of landing sites (and camps, OPs etc!) that people remember from British Forces Belize days have been out of use for some considerable time and the jungle doesn't take long to claim back a small clearing - we had a team of LECs whose only job was to keep our landing sites clear (and a full time job it is!).
When you get out to Belize and if you have time, I'd suggest popping into Price Barracks (what used to be Airport Camp) and speaking to the guys up at the Flight - I'm sure they'd be happy to help you find the place you're looking for!

And for all the Puma mates, you might like to know that every year the CO is flown down to Salamanca Camp (which has been a logging camp for 10 years) and the memorial is cleared and a wreath laid.

HugoFirst

31st Aug 2009, 09:17

There was also The Cove at Placencia. Placencia Village was used as an adverture training centre (windsurfing, sailing, canoeing, sub aqua, etc). The Cove was further around the bay, right on the beach. It had a small airstrip behind, used by the owner; an ex-USAF pilot called Bill something (my memory's not what it was).

In the mid-80s many a 25 Flt Gazelle trip would detour to visit Bill on the way to or from Punta Gorda.

Looking back now, I can't believe some of the stuff we got away with in Belize. Happy days, great flying.

gayford

31st Aug 2009, 09:55

I was at Butcher Radar in 1977-1978, pretty basic in those days. The camp generator stopped at 11pm each night and only the aircrew got the AC bedrooms!!! Nonetheless, with the Harrier, Puma and AAC Scout detachments we were always quite busy and played as hard as we worked.
Unfortunately "9 days off" was not the routine then but Butcher Radar BBQs on a friday were memorable. Great days, but so long ago !!

Python21

31st Aug 2009, 11:16

Enjoyable times in the late 80's.
Journey's End, Jalacte Village and the Mess at APC
P21

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k144/python21/010915-1404-54.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k144/python21/010915-1407-06.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k144/python21/010915-1417-36.jpg

Tiger_mate

31st Aug 2009, 11:40

Sisemens Gazelle pic is:

Cadenas (Top) OP in the most SW point of the country. Cadenas (Bottom) was a clearing at the bottom of the hill whose approach and departure was limited by the border and whose surrounding trees had evidence of how tight it was on the tail rotor. I think I am right in saying that this is the OP in which a AAC Bell 47 Sioux was written off, but others older than I may be able to clarify that.

FFly

31st Aug 2009, 16:33

I am sure that it was Chaa Creek that I was looking for, for my visit back to Belize, and their website looks faintly like the place we used to go for lunch, but now far far more luxurious. Mrs Ffly has now decided that if they have a spa there, it is going to be far more to her liking than she first supposed.

Reading this and seeing all the photographs has brought it all back;the great times on Sundays at Journeys End , spending the day at a resort where the paying guests paid a lot of money to be there and we got in for free, and all the other trips we made; going off to treat children in Jalacte and Mennonite mission hospitals with Jonathan Hull as OC FST, flying onto a Caye where the Puma would land on the beach with its tail sticking outover the water, landing by an OP on a mountain top, a scuba course at the adventure training centre and a generally good time had by all. I have lots of photographs, but they are all on slides, but I have ordered one of those digital converter thingies so when it turns up I will post some to see if anyone recognizes themselves.

Hugh

Mushroom_2

31st Aug 2009, 19:43

http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy99/Mushroom_3/OfficersMessfire1.jpg

Officers Mess 1980

sisemen

1st Sep 2009, 06:22

flying onto a Caye where the Puma would land on the beach with its tail sticking outover the water,

Bit like this you mean??? Both pics taken at the Caye as seen in my previous post.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c92/allan907/Belize2-2_0001.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c92/allan907/Belize2-3_0002.jpg

ShyTorque

1st Sep 2009, 08:54

Hunting Key was one HLS where the tail stuck out over the sea because the beach was very narrow and the palm trees were almost to the water's edge.

We used to take some army plus a local policeman, IIRC, for some R&R (barbeque) most weekends (them, not us). After they overloaded my Puma and we almost went into the trees at Rideau camp, we reviewed just how much stuff they were taking. The "overload" was the pair of big black metal containers which were supposed to contain some ice, drinks and food but they had kept topping them up as the ice melted - they were almost full of water and weighed lots!

There was no bottom LS at Cadenas in my time there. Cadenas overlooked the main road up into N. Guatamala and also an engineers' camp so it was a very important place for an OP. If my memory is correct it was 13 mins from Rideau by Puma. Some of the terrain in between looked a bit rough in places so I once asked the SAS how long it would take to walk home. He reckoned up to three weeks in the wet season as it was mainly mangrove swamp.

Fareastdriver

1st Sep 2009, 09:13

In the mid seventies Cadenas had an LZ in front of the police post that could be described as quite snug. I had to spend a couple of days there surveying another projected LZ a few hundred yards to the east. A further LZ was on top of the hill and one day a Scout has a No 5 Seal failure and I had to lift it off and bring it back to Airport Camp.
I decribed that performance in a previous thread, not again.

sapper

1st Sep 2009, 11:33

Just to mix the pot.
In early 1977 whilst a serving Royal Engineer I ran the quarry which supplied the stone to help in the construction of Rideau Camp, Punta Gorda. Not a lot of time for fun and frolics, had to beat the hurricane season.

Spr

goudie

1st Sep 2009, 11:37

Officers Mess 1980

Another successful Dining in Night!:)

Deneb

1st Sep 2009, 15:38

Gweedo,

Your pictures bring back some memories!! Looks as though we were there at the same time. I'm pretty sure that group at the Mess was the RAF Officers' Lunch Club, with one or two AAC thrown in too! Seem to remember the lunch would go on until a Puma departed very low over the Mess!

I would definitely be interested in seeing more of your pics - either on here or by PM.

Best wishes

JH

Sun Who

1st Sep 2009, 15:52

The young chap 5 in from the left (with the slightly rakish mustache) is Bomber Brooks - really nice guy. A fighter controller with Butcher Radar at the time. IIRC, he got his soubriquet when he turned up at Neatishead in 1988 as a Plt Off and left his briefcase un-attended and un-marked in the car park. I believe the RAFP 'disposed of it' as if it was an IED.
Not sure what a first tourist Plt Off needed with a briefcase.
We both celebrated Xmas in Belize - not very festive in 90 deg heat.

Sun Who

jellycopter

3rd Sep 2009, 10:13

Daneb

The group photo was indeed an RAF lunch and it was 16th Dec 1989. I'm on the front row, 2nd from the left and look about 12 years old!

"Seem to remember the lunch would go on until a Puma departed very low over the Mess!"

I was flying that Puma. My crewman was Sgt DS at the time and we'd just had to abseil Santa into the middle of APC for the Xmas Fayre. As I'd not been able to have a beer at the lunch, I thought it best that I made a point by trying to take the roof off the mess! Afterwards, I got a right bollocking from OC Ops (M McG) who had a bit of a sense of humour failure and threatened to send me home on the next VC10. As it was approaching Xmas and I had a wife waiting for me at home, I considered doing it again! However, the 1563 Flt Cdr (IM) was a lot more understanding and gave me a fatherly chat.....I think he was quite pleased really. I left a few days later on my scheduled departure date, never to return.

JJ

Deneb

3rd Sep 2009, 10:24

JJ,

I'm standing behind you, in combats. I can't believe how young we all look!!

We must have flown together as I seem to remember spending almost as much time in the front of a Puma as Gazelle!

Funny how all Puma night flights always began and ended over the Mess too!

Best wishes

J

bluesilk

3rd Sep 2009, 17:14

Thanks for all these memories chaps. I was at Butcher Radar 1983 ,long long time ago. It was all very basic but great fun. The dentist's story reminded me that our dentist at the time was a lady half Colonel who was absolutely brilliant and joined in all the wind ups of which there were many. Had to call a halt to them after I had sent a signal to Strike asking what they were playing at, then to be told it was another wind up. The reply I got back was "colourful". They were fantastic days and as you say the Pumas and Gazelles did us proud.

ShyTorque

3rd Sep 2009, 19:21

JJ, Wazzing, eh? Can't think where you got that habit from.

Night flying, Belize: Myself and a colleague were ordered to night fly one sunday by a certain S/L BB (by name and by nature). We appealed as there was a film on at the O. Mess that we really wanted to watch. "Appeal disallowed, get on with it!"

The O. Mess cinema screen was a white painted canvas sheet on a couple of steel poles stuck in the grass outside. Annoyingly, we could see it from the circuit. I was slightly less annoyed when I discovered that the Puma steerable searchlight could illuminate it from downwind, apparently just enough to wash out the film...... :E

After a few circuits, we got a message via ATC from S/L BB, who was watching the film - "Oi, pack it in!"

FFly

5th Sep 2009, 22:18

As promised some 1990 photographs

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/hughtyrrell/9-5-2009_004.jpg

I am one in from the right. Jonathan Hull is on the left with the moustache and para wings.

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/hughtyrrell/9-5-2009_012.jpg

Open air dentistry with an audience maybe Jalacte, but the slide is marked San Benito

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/hughtyrrell/9-5-2009_025.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/hughtyrrell/9-5-2009_034.jpg

Confined area beach landing!!

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/hughtyrrell/9-5-2009_061.jpg

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/hughtyrrell/9-5-2009_037.jpg

See having your teeth taken out wasn't so bad was it?

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss151/hughtyrrell/9-5-2009_031.jpg

Padre and young friend

PEGASUS673

15th Jun 2010, 22:02

Hi
I am new to this forum and was browsing the web for pics of Belize.
I served there in 1984 Royal Engineers and the Inf Battalion was 3 Para

The second picture is of Cadenas Mountain top Op overlooking the guatamalien border.

If you have any more pics would be great to see them

I now live in Bavaria not far from the Czech border

Best wishes

Tom

oldbeefer

16th Jun 2010, 08:08

Daneb

Afterwards, I got a right bollocking from OC Ops (M McG) who had a bit of a sense of humour failure
JJ

No change there then - all stems from him having to jump out of a Canberra in his early days!

I was OC the Flight in '85 - probably the best 6mths of my (lengthy) time in the RAF. Never forget first visit to Caye Chapel - entertained by an ex Wg Cdr who gace me a couple of pints of Pina Colada - never had it before, and had no idea how much Appletons Rum was in them. Next thing I remember is waking up in my room the next morning; in the meantime, I'd been to the reef, swum, LHS in the Puma back to APC. Never again (and I haven't had a PC since, and probably never will!). Great days and fantastic flying (who can forget setting the radalt to 50 ft for the run down to the south, and trying not to let the light go out).

ShyTorque

16th Jun 2010, 17:01

Oldbeefer, you mean McG, Officer i/c Gliding, RAF Aktrotiri? :E

And those notorious Pina Coladas were probably mixed by a chap named Price on Caye Chapel, IIRC.

I gave up the low level all the way to Punta Gorda when a huge brown pelican nearly took me out about half way down route.... served it right for standing up! :eek:

lsh

16th Jun 2010, 21:48

Mmmm

On my first night in Belize I too sampled the rum with my new "mates".
Spent the rest of the night alternately sleeping with my head on the toilet seat and "saying hello to God on the porcelain telephone"!!
Never drank rum again, the smell still makes me feel ill now, 30 years on!

lsh
:E

Could be the last?

18th Jun 2010, 14:58

I've heard that 25 Flt are pulling out and going North to BATUS; does this mean all Mil will be leaving Belize?

Dunhovrin

21st Jun 2010, 17:22

On behalf of all of us SHNFI mates who never got further west than Belleek can I just say:

"Blah Blah Belize Blah Blah"

(I'm only jealous)

ShyTorque

21st Jun 2010, 23:03

C'mon, at least one of you got as far south as Dundalk before almost running out of fuel.... :E

oldbeefer

22nd Jun 2010, 10:20

Oh Shy, you are awful!

Price - yeah, Nigel - partner a Guatemalan lady. Their daughter (at uni in Oxford at the time) was totally stunning!

surfsidetoo

10th Sep 2017, 21:45

My name is Steve Perry. Letting you know that the radar that was in Belize is now on display at the Cornwall at War Museum near Camelford in North Cornwall.
I was posted to Belize when it was still British Honduras flying out in a Bristol Britannia in September 74, refueling at Gander and the Bahamas. The 'International Airport' was a runway in the middle of a swamp with a shed, I mean terminal building at one end. I think the only aircraft that used it were the Britannias changing the army units every 6 months and the weekly 'milk run' by the Hercules. While we were there Hurricane Fifi devastated Honduras to the south and we were flown down by Hercules on relief operations. While we were there we were required to get the garrison into 'good order' and the stores and equipment up to strength. Our recce platoon went down to the Southern border area to cut clearings in the jungle which seemed a waste of time. How wrong we were!! We returned to the UK in March 75. In Sept 75 we became Spearhead battalion and were sent to Northern Ireland. A Commando of Royal Marines then became Spearhead and were sent to Belize as Guatemala were preparing to invade. That's what our preparations had been for. The clearings were possibly for aircraft?? perhaps Harriers or helicopters? Not sure but they were definitely for something

gayford

11th Sep 2017, 10:43

Doesn't seem like that long ago that I was enjoying the sunshine at Butcher Radar in 1977-78.

Crromwellman

11th Sep 2017, 10:51

ShyTorque

11th Sep 2017, 10:58

My last visit was thirty five years ago - where did those years go?

Time I went back, methinks.

But this time I'll go at a time of my own choosing and certainly won't be spending three days eating awful meals from bacofoil containers over Christmas at the "Gateway House", BZN, waiting for a VC-10 flight.

Vortex_Generator

11th Sep 2017, 11:25

Went twice, '76 & '84. Quite a lot changed in that time, particularly on Ambergris Caye, so I can't begin to imagine it now.

charliegolf

11th Sep 2017, 11:46

ShyTorque

11th Sep 2017, 12:05

You had meals? WTF!

CG

I think they were meals.... ;)

Bing

11th Sep 2017, 12:32

I wonder how sorry some people are that we left Belize, probably to satisfy the bean counters, despite still having interests in that area. The French and Dutch kept garrisons in the area and consequently they had the wherewithall to respond to the recent hurricane disaster. Not us though. We rely on deploying from UK which all takes time and gives the media the excuse, not that they need one, to describe our response as "pathetic" and "too little, too late." If we had kept a small presence in Belize with some pre-positioned stores, we could have responded as quickly as the French and Dutch. Short term thinking rules - OK

RFA Mounts Bay was at Anguilla 12 hours after the hurricane hit with stores and personnel. I doubt anyone stationed in Belize could have got as much there as quickly. The French and Dutch garrisons are on the islands that got hit, which does give you something of an advantage in the response time, but you have to dig yourself out from under the rubble first.

The press coverage has mostly been uninformed b******s.

sycamore

11th Sep 2017, 13:55

CROMWELLMAN,perhaps you should look at `google earth`,and measure the distances involved from Belize to the Islands,;shortest direct is 1600nm,pretty route via SAmerica is 2600nm.Fine if there happens to be a C130/Voyager/A400 in the area,but then you are jeopardising the aircraft flying into/around a hurricane.Not only that,but you have to clear with many countries to overfly,diplomatically,several of whom are not necessarily friendly having foreign military on their doorstep.

Could be the last?

11th Sep 2017, 23:28

Could the HLS be Banana Bank?

The Pumas returned with a couple of dets in 2005 and explored the country ISO 3 Yorks - there were a few hotels and a horse riding ranch surrounding this HLS deep in the jungle.

Crromwellman

12th Sep 2017, 16:51