USA transit

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Is this tolerable these days? - I know that actually wanting to visit the USA goes beyond my tolerance for police states, queuing, and having nasty men with guns stare at you just itching to be allowed to use them, so I don't actually visit the USA.

But what about just changing planes on the way to somewhere more civilised? I hear two stories:

(1) From the airline: it's no big deal, you only have to queue for a few minutes to get fingerprinted, and whilst you're waiting in the queue we'll be round with coffee and sandwiches every now and then. (I wonder if anyone else can spot the internal contradiction there?)

(2) From a frequent traveller: just don't even think about it, the hassle is completely intolerable.

So ... given that a route avoiding changing planes in the USA is going to cost me £300 extra, is it worth paying this to avoid the USA?

(I have to admit that I'm more used to parts of the world where changing planes consists of:

- get out of old plane
- walk to gate for new plane
- get straight on new plane

for a total of a couple of minutes, provided the connection isn't late.)

[L'aviateur]

My experience in travelling to South America via both Miami and Houston has always been to pass through immigration to enter the USA, collect my bags, go through customs, come out via arrivals, walk upto departures, checkin and go through security back into the terminal.
I believe this is mandatory, but others may also be able to advise.

[intortola]

I transit the USA at least every 6 weeks, some airports are certainly better and speedier than others but the whole experience is actually not that bad at all. Ensure you fill in the forms correctly, answer any questions and you will be fine. You reclaim and recheck your luggage at the first point of entry into the USA, this is usually well organised and the airlines take it from you as soon as you exit the arrivals hall(as long as it is tagged to final destination). Spent a month in Europe this summer which involved a lot of travel flying in and out of the UK. Passport control at LHR and check in at STN were probably more frustrating than arriving at a US airport, and i have a British passport! I usually like to allow 2 hours minimum between flights when transferring in the US if i have to clear immigration, but last week i arrived from London and had cleared in about 20 minutes, collected bags and was at gate for my next flight 45 minutes after gate arrival, it is not always that quick though.

[Donkey497]

Transit in the US, I have to admit from time to time is not entirely painless. However, I do recognise more out of the first description than the second.

So long as you have filled out the required forms, either en-route or on-line prior to flight in accordance with the fairly clear instructions on each, then the worst part is normally queueing up to pass through immigration. Just remember that all customs and immigration folks worldwide have a sense of humour bypass as soon as they get the job. However the yanks have done a fair bit of customer service work with their front line folks and they are probably about the most courteous border personnel you will meet outside of select Asian countries.

Once through, pick up your hold luggage, even if it has been booked through, pass through customs, handing over your customs form, head out to the transfer area & hand over your hold luggage again, assuming it has been tagged through to your final destination. Back to departure security & head airside.

This is the bit which really pisses me off, after having flown across the atlantic, I do think that it's a major "slap in the puss" [to use a fine old scottish phrase] to the traveller to have` to go landside & pass back through security. Fair enough if you're arriving from a country where security scanning is marginal then to send these passengers landside to re-scan them at security is probably fair enough, but sending passengers round from a location where scanning is fairly comprehensive round through security again just aggravates tired passengers leading to air rage unecessarily.

Apart from that gripe, my advice to you is to save your £300 as it'll pay for a whole lot more relaxation than you should accumulate by transiting the US.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

check in at STN
Know what you mean.

The point is, we've got to go through that to get on the plane in the first place, I'm not sure I can face doing it all over again half way through a 30 hour journey! Maybe I'll work a Saturday of Sunday to earn the £300, sounds like a better deal to me, and change planes in Singapore or somewhere instead.

Which always used to be very civilised. A 45 minute refuelling stop used to be plenty of time to get off the aircraft, go and have a look at the Koi, have a shower, and get back on board. Changing planes was the same except you got back on a different aircraft. This was, however, several years ago - is it still like that?

[intortola]

Donkey497, i agree, it is a pain having to repeat security,however, i guess i do it so often that i have found the quickest routes in the airports i use. There has been a marked improvement in the attitude of immigration and customs officers in the last year, some are even quite friendly and chat whilst processing you, the officer at JFK did this just last week, but i am sure there are plenty left that have the old attitudes still.
In my opinion the original poster should save the money and not worry about the US transit, good luck and let us know what you decide.

[mutt]

Just remember that as an European you have to complete the visa waiver application online before traveling.
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov

AND you must also complete the I94W (Green Form) prior to landing...

Mutt

[gdiphil]

intortola I agree with your posts. I have found the US ok these days, there was a point when it was just not on but they have got with the humane programme and for the most part it is ok. But I must say I agree very much with Wombat that LHR is very unpleasant these days all round, I fortunately don't need transit there as it is my home base so to speak. I would save the £300, that is money worth using on another trip or the Mrs or other current squeeze.

Off to Nashville on Friday via Dallas as the entry point and transit to internal flight, that is a new one for me. Any helpful tips from anyone. I have the pleasure of BA thru T5 and then onward internally with AA. All in Y too.

[intortola]

gdiphil, from memory BA arrive at terminal D at DFW, i have always found immigration at DFW to be fast and painless, once you have rechecked your bag reenter security and take the transit train that connects all terminals to your next gate, i believe this is "airside". have a good trip.

[L'aviateur]

gdiphil, its the same procedure. Clear immigration at your first port of call (Dallas), collect your baggage and then go back through security.
I also agree that the treatment by US Officials is getting better and some can be quite pleasant and chatty.

[Pax Vobiscum]

Gertrude, I think there may be two categories of US airports for transit purposes. There are those in the SE for which a significant minority of passengers are in transit between Europe and other parts of the Americas - and are therefore tolerably well-equipped to handle them.

Then there are the others for whom transit passengers are only a tiny minority and that therefore don't deal with them quite so gracefully. I would place LAX in the second category and, reading between the lines (30hr flight, SIN as alternative transit point) I guess that's were you'll be.

So be prepared for some inefficiencies, but if it were me, I'd pocket the £300 saving and just grin and bear it. (What else are you going to do with your transit time, anyway?)

SIN is at the other end of the scale, with a very large minority if not an actual majority of PAX in transit (true for some ME airports as well) and I can't think of a more pleasant or efficient place for intercontinental transit. The big plus over the States is that you aren't dealt with as a potential immigrant!

[Gary Brown]

As others have said, it very much depends on the airport itself, indeed rather more so than the overall security regime of any given country... Some US airports have the physical space or layout to make transiting pretty painless (eg, both Dallas and Houston here in Texas usually have dedicated transit security passes right next to the transit bag drop, and you're often through both in the twinkling of an eye; and I've always found, eg, Atlanta, Cincinnati, and even Washington similarly easy). Older airports with layout problems often dump you full landside after bag drop, and then you have to crawl through the general security re-check (eg, JFK, Newark, Miami). Others are a mix, depending on terminal / airline mix (Chicago can be absolute hell, as can Boston). The overall pain is that it can be difficult to get get precise advance information as to exactly what to expect for which flights, which airlines, which terminals....... I've actually missed not-very-tight connections at Newark!

My experience in recent years of traveling several times a year between USA and Europe - from and to various destinations in both - in that the USA has improved overall in both efficiency and courtesy, whereas chunks of Europe have gone the other way: LHR and LGW are, in my opinion, total nightmares of slovenly overcrowding, manned by Little Hitlers (And I have both US and Brit passports..). CDG is a hell-hole too. I prefer, if I can make the routing work, Madrid or Amsterdam (though both involve a hell of a lot of walking....) or my personal favorite, little Geneva.

AGB

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I would place LAX in the second category and, reading between the lines (30hr flight, SIN as alternative transit point) I guess that's were you'll be.
Yes. I think we've now found an even cheaper fare via Singapore, so avoiding LAX is a no-brainer.

Thanks all.

[Flightwatch]

Interestingly enough my wife traveled MEX-IAH-LHR with CO/BA in June and her baggage was labeled with a green "Transit" tag at Mexico and she didn't see it again until arrival at LHR. I can only guess this is a local arrangement between the TSA and Continental at Houston when transiting from Mexico only as I have never heard of it elsewhere in the States and when transiting IAH from the UK it is the same collect bags and re-check them procedure. She had done online check-in for both flights the previous day so had her onward boarding pass, maybe this made a difference.

[WHBM]

In countless trips worldwide I have never spent more than 2 minutes in a security check. It adds no significant time to the trip whether at point of origin or midway at a connecting point.

Where hours and hours of my time, and in some cases connecting flights, have been lost is in queueing to get to the security check point in the first place. This is what hacks everyone off about security checks. It is not the actual check, it is the queueing for it because inadequate resouces are provided for it. And that contributes nothing to security at all. It is straight pennypinching and poor management, and nothing whatsoever to do with security.

Why are airport managements so couldn't-care-less about their secirity provision. The actual setups normally look like they were assembled yesterday, with temporary tables, cramped areas, and the electrics installed with odd wires running loosely down from the roof, and stuck together with duct tape. Go and look at the business class lounge and all the fittings are installed properly. Why the difference ? Security has been with us for 40 years.

[clareprop]

I'm sure I will be castigated for this approach and it comes with no guarantees.

I fly to the US on business more than five times a year. If the visitor queues are too long in the arrivals hall, I just join a domestic line (which in MCO,JFK, BOS, PHI and LAX all have fingerprint machines) and "tactically" hide my passport and waiver form. When I arrive at the desk, I hand everything over and smile. It's worked perfectly for the last two years. Only once has a comment about being in the wrong lane been passed which I responded to with a very British "Oh am I?" "I'm so terribly, dreadfully sorry!" Faced with this apparent guilt and embarassment (neither of which is a recognised American trait), the officer quickly told me it really wasn't a problem and processed me on anyway.
There are variations of course: queue with the Domestic's but when released to the mini-lines for the desks, join an international one.
I know. It's not fair and it's not British.

[Big Harvey]

Five years ago I transited via Detroit. It was an awful experience and I vowed never to repeat it.

Unfortunately the demise of Zoom and domestic no-frills operators in Canada means that the likes of Air Canada now think they can charge what they like for their flights, so for that reason this Summer I found myself flying Northwest Airlines transiting via Minneapolis.

Yes, you still have to do a full customs and immigration clearance (including a biometric scan), yes you still have to pick up your luggage from the carousel and clear security again, but the difference was that this time it was handled quickly, politely, and efficiently. What's more, I didn't have to line up at a check-in desk, since there was a baggage drop and my boarding pass for the onward flight was issued at Heathrow, and my bag labelled accordingly. It was completely painless. The whole procedure from arriving at passport control to being in the departure lounge waiting for my onward flight took about 20 minutes! I wouldn't want to bank on this being the case all the time, and at every US airport though.

The only really unpleasant experience of the trip came at the hands of a particularly rude and obnoxious member of security staff at Heathrow, who was so nasty that I actually think he was trying to provoke some kind of hostile reaction from me.

In short, I would now consider doing it again, but unless there's a significant financial incentive as was the case this time, I would still go for the more convenient, less hassle-prone options.

[Seat 59A]

Some great posts here, and in general I agree with most of what has been said. The US has improved significantly in the past couple of years, so that most times, whether in transit or arriving/departing both immigration and security are a fairly painless experience. It still depends a little bit on which airport and which terminal you use. Ben Bradley Intl Terminal at LAX can still be pretty bad (slow lines, many non-English speakers), but T2 (which ANZ uses, is generally pretty civilized). Miami, which I use regularly, and was a hellhole for years, actually won Best Airport award last year and has really cleaned up its act. The last few times I've been through I really couldn't fault it. Nearly all US airports now have dedicated and efficient fast track lines for premium travellers, as well as special lines for families/babies/etc.etc. Many carriers (VS and BA for e.g.) have dedicated premium security channels - BA First at JFK is the best I have ever used.

How is all this done? In one word: consistency. The rules are clear, everyone follows them, and it is done efficiently and courteously.

As someone else pointed out in this thread, compare the US with the abysmal situation at BAA airports. Ferocious, nasty, undereducated pre-screeners who got the job because they failed the traffic warden exam., totally inconsistent and arbitrary application of rules, thuggish lack of courtesy and general chippiness throughout.

[Wannabe Flyer]

A billion people travelling a year, tempers are bound to fray and people have to wait in line. Live and learn. No big deal. Law of the land needs to be followed. Next time if you feel low about transiting via the US give Sudan or somalia a try. Might make you feel better

[WHBM]

...... people have to wait in line. Live and learn. No big deal......
That really is not an acceptable approach for a customer facing industry.

As described above, queues are nothing to do with the actual security, but the mismanaged implementation of it. There are plenty of major airports around the world who carry it out efficiently and promptly - actually at those places I find the actual security check is carred out more competently than at those places like Gatwick or LAX where the only emphasis seems to be minimising the staff employed.

[Wannabe Flyer]

That really is not an acceptable approach for a customer facing industry.

The airline business is a customer facing industry, the concessions at the airport are a customer facing industry, I doubt the INS or DEA, or US customs view themselves as a customer facing industry. They have got more to do with Homeland Security.

I think with the current mentality out there across the world i would wait patiently in line to ensure no zealot or despot is in front of me that makes it thru. That's a customer service of a different level! After all since 9/11 how many more deadly incidents have thre been in the US?

I know that actually wanting to visit the USA goes beyond my tolerance for police states, queuing, and having nasty men with guns stare at you just itching to be allowed to use them, so I don't actually visit the USA.

My definition of itching to use them and police state is when one has an AK 47/uzi/M 16 with the safety off and finger on the trigger with 3 barking dogs by his feet yelling and screaming at you to lie prone on the floor.

Best of my knowledge officers with Hand Guns in holsters seated behind counters using sir and ma'am in a firm voice does not constitute a police state. Last I remember was a uniformed unarmed lady guiding us by the ropes to the next available person and the customs officer collecting my slip was also unarmed. (i beleive the INS official was armed, but it was holstered and she was seated so there was no gun in my face).

Just an opinion as I travel in and out of the US frequently for both business and pleasure and for some apparent reason have not been made to feel that way (except the lines seem to be longer now as processing time has increased and so has number of travellers). :*

[ExXB]

Seeing as all 'customers' queueing up for their welcome to the 'excited states' have been security screened hours before the chances of anyone having a lethal weapon is so remote.

I avoid transiting the US, unless it is impossible to do otherwise, not only because it's an unnecessary hassle but because;

1. History of transit passengers being intercepted and 'renditioned' to third countries with unacceptable results.
2. Fact that US Border Control has the right to seize indefinitely your laptop, and other electronic devices, without having a reason. I've got nothing to hide, but I certainly need my tools while on a business trip.
3. Having been sent to secondary by an officer at IAD who wanted to know why, as a Canadian, I didn't have a visa. After spending two hours waiting in secondary I was told that Canadians don't need a visa (I did know that) and was sent on my way.

US 'welcome' may have been a factor of Chicago's loss for the 2016 Olympics - highlighted by a question from the Pakistan IOC member which wasn't handled well at all by Mr. Obama.


I'm encouraged by the posts above that comment that things have improved and will see for myself when I transit Seattle after Christmas.

[radeng]

I go to the US when I visit there. if I'm going somewhere else, I avoid transiting the US. Cplin Powell said some years ago that increased security and the limitations were putting of visitors to the US to the tune of billions of dollars a year, and it's their loss, not mine. If they want to play it that way, it's their country, and they are more than free to do so. But I don't have to transit that country, even if at times I have to go there.

[Seat 59A]

As if to prove a point, I got through MIA today in record time en route from the Caribbean to New York City. Less than 5 minutes in immigration, where I was processed most politely and efficiently. Up the stairs and around the concourse to the priority lane for security screening. No “gate lice” in evidence, just a quick boarding pass check. Dealt with very efficiently, with a minimum of personal contact, and everyone screened in exactly the same, consistent, non-intrusive manner. Everyone doing their job quickly, politely and efficiently, with an absolute minimum (i.e. none) of unnecessary asking of the same infantile question five times over. Carried same 56cm rollaboard bag that was aggressively denied entry at LGW two weeks ago (see Gatwick North thread) – no problem. Into the lounge with over an hour to spare (would have been insufficient two years ago) and time to sit down over a coffee and write this. Sorry BAA – you’re just not fit for purpose!

[obgraham]

I'm encouraged by the posts above that comment that things have improved and will see for myself when I transit Seattle after Christmas.Unfortunately, Ex, you've chosen to transit through an airport where the term "efficiency" has not yet been translated. Good luck.

[ArthurBorges]

Quote:
I know that actually wanting to visit the USA goes beyond my tolerance for police states, queuing, and having nasty men with guns stare at you just itching to be allowed to use them, so I don't actually visit the USA.
My definition of itching to use them and police state is when one has an AK 47/uzi/M 16 with the safety off and finger on the trigger with 3 barking dogs by his feet yelling and screaming at you to lie prone on the floor.



My definition of a police state is Myanmar. I was first off the flight from BKK at something like 2330LT and hit this desk with three middle-aged female officers knitting and chatting behind this desk. They all look at me and smile like I was walking into their living. They take my passport and get back to their knitting and chatting.

Anyhow, so after standing there all alone like a leftover movie extra, and despite decades of passport & custom clearance experience, I suddenly imagine that Myanmar is different: they keep your passport and only give it back to you afer Customs decides you're okay. Why some folks on this planet will imagine such nonsense, go figure, but that's what hit me.

So I just wander past the trio towards Customs.

But after about 15 yards, I hear group giggling and anyone who knows Asia also knows that group giggling means only one thing: you've just done something really, REALLY stupid. You get a chill up and down your spine, stop dead in your tracks and turn around.

I do that. Then I see the three girls waving me back to their desk. So I do that.

We all wait till more folks turn up, they put down their knitting, man (so to speak) their individual counters and processing begins.

Dunno why, but I'd never dream of trying such a walk-by anywhere West.

---

On another note, if you use the visa waiver thingie for the USA, you have to know that you, on your part, are also waiving your right to appeal before a judge in case some little hitler decides he thinks any presence of yours in the USA would somehow lower the general standard of quality of life for the natives there.

My (thoroughly respectable, honest, dedicated and hardworking) Colombian
friends in teaching and medicine got these lifetime multiple entry visas for the USA even though they had no intention of EVER setting foot in that country.

They did that because, if you have that visa (which outlives expiry of your passport -- you just present old & new passports simultaneously at INS), then it is MUCH easier to get visas for anywhere else you DO want to go to.
Happy Skies!

[WHBM]

Treatment of those from overseas presenting themselves at US Immigration, and the zealous visa procedures beforehand, is widely felt to be a significant reason why Chicago lost the 2016 Olympics to Rio recently. It will be interesting to see if this analysis reaches up to the US President, who devoted time to the bid, and what in turn comes down from this.

Any nation is justified in appropriate measures at their border. This does not include widespread arrogance, rudeness, xenophobia and ego tripping by the staff, and acceptance of same by their management.

Do I understand that US border control positions are a job of choice for ex-US military personnel, enlisted rather than officers, and they bring their US military attitudes with them.