Southern B777F

[toonarmy]

Anyone have any ideas what Southern's plans for the B777F's are, any firm customers yet?

[cargo-dus]

Are you talking about US Southern Air ?
Would have thought they´d replace the 747-Classics with some converted -400s at some point.

[gtf]

No, China Southern. 6 777Fs on order. First two delivered straight to the desert.

[bpp]

Southern Air, a U.S. company, previously stated they were getting B777's. I believe that is what the original poster was referring to.
bpp

[gtf]

Gotcha. More Southern than I can handle, I guess.

[cpnkirk59]

Didn't feel they could make money with B747-400's; so, they sold the two -400 options to Kalitta and exercised the B777 ones they got with Cargo360. Will have a total of ten coming by 2012 (I seem to remember?). Anyway, they are going to fly cargo with them! I'm not a salesman; but, my "guess" is that the purchase price is less than the -400, so hourly ACMI and fuel costs will be substantially lower. With lighter loads going it out, it will be a more cost effective option (abeit, shorter legs). It won't go non-stop ICN to LAX; but, will still cost a lot less, with increased reliability.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/southern_air.html

[Caboclo]

US Southern's T7s will soon be in the sandpit, if they're not already. They undercut Kalitta's bid to supply food to the troops, UAE-Pakistan-Afghanistan.

I wonder when the last time was that Connie got underbid? :E

[cpnkirk59]

You may know more about the deal than I do; but, Kalitta gave up that contract to SAI. The initial operations out of Sharja were operationally restrictive and Kalitta pulled out. SAI is also flying Midex contracts (re: see Midex under Middle East forum - from what I've read on that thread, their pilots have done a lot of sitting recently). SAI is a low cost operator; but, as far as "I" know, they haven't been cornering the market by "under-bidding" their competitors. The B777 may go straight to desert, as you say; but, so far, they seem to be keeping their airplanes and crews, they didn't furlough, flying. Historically, I see no one financing a high operating costs new airplanes for SAI; unless there is a relative "certainty", they are going to be used. I could be wrong.

RP

[cargo-dus]

At the moment 77F only available fresh from factory. Even if they pick some frames deferred by others, 10 of them should still come at about $ 2bn. Wonder how SOO plan to recover that money with their kind of operation

[thedude1]

The B777 may go straight to desert, as you say; but, so far, they seem to be keeping their airplanes and crews, they didn't furlough, flying.


Try again there knucklehead. SAI furloughed somewhere between 20-25 crews.

[cpnkirk59]

Yeah, I know - I'm one of the fifty-two pilots furloughed. I guess the recalls that started last week don't mean anything. I'd better not plan on being recalled; since, you appear to know more about SAI than I do.

RP

[klipper11]

"The initial operations out of Sharja were operationally restrictive and Kalitta pulled out" Not true, the number of dollars per hour under bid was about $1000 per. As some else said "when was the last time Connie was under bid?" From what I have seen and heard Connie will not and has not bid anything at a loss. It my be break even, but not at a loss. As far a operational restrictive I can't answer that. They are still operating in and out of Sharja with 747-200's. I believe that is the same airframe SAI uses? abet PW vs GE's.

[Semu]

As to the original poster, Southern has, through their aquisition of Cargo 360, a good (supposedly) relationship with Korean. Its entirely possilble that a number of the 777s will do that run (say Southern shiney) while the 742s get shot at out of Sharjah (Southern shot?). They are rumored to have sent crewmembers to 777 school. Whether they can keep eight or so maintained and busy enough to make payments as a charter company will be informative to watch.

[Heilhaavir]

Southern has, through their aquisition of Cargo 360

Isn't it Oak Hill Capital Partners (who owned Cargo 360) that acquired Southern?

[SMT Member]

cpnkirk

The B777F has very long legs and will do ICN-LAX without any problems. It can carry it's max payload (around 106 tons) for up to 10.5 hours. You won't get that kind of performance out of anything else, including a -400ERF.

[klipper11]

Polar did ICN-LAX with the 400. A 400BCF should be able to fly 11.9 hrs with 125 ton which is well within the ICN-LAX route. The 777 should be able to do 106 ton and save many tons of fuel on the same route.

[CR2]

And I always thought SAI bought 360. :confused: I could very well be wrong though......

[klipper11]

Oakhill purchased 360 then 360 purchased SAI, then rolled the whole thing into SAH In Jan of 08. Oakhill then handed in 360's certificate on the 24th of Jan 08 to the Feds.

[Da Do Ron Ron]

Boeings Allocated Production shows N77SSA c/n 37986 due for delivery to Southern Air via Oak Hill Partners in 2010.

[sponge92]

777F's will be owned by a separate aircraft leasing company owned by OHCP (OH Aircraft Acquisition LLC). They will then be leased to Southern Air. Good shell game and if another company is willing to pony up $$ for the aircraft I'd bet they'd lease them out in a heartbeat.

Personally (I'm a SAI vet) I don't see SAI ever maintaining an aircraft to ETOPS standards...

Sponge

[cpnkirk59]

cpnkirk

The B777F has very long legs and will do ICN-LAX without any problems. It can carry it's max payload (around 106 tons) for up to 10.5 hours. You won't get that kind of performance out of anything else, including a -400ERF.

My inaccurate post, was based on my "ego" driven research on the Boeing website - already had to admit I was wrong to one of my fellow furloughies! Thank you also for correcting me. :ooh:

For the comments regarding SAI and how they will park the planes in the desert/screw up the ETOPS/not have enough flying for the aircraft: you all may be correct; but, the company is about 3/4s of the way through recalling furloughed pilots, rumored to have moved up the initial delivery date of the 777s, rumored to be trying to move up the follow on deliveries and have more contracts on the way.

My "ego" was again driving my positive reply to negative ones above (always trying to be right in an argument!); but, now I understand how many of the Middle Eastern Expats feel, when someone bad mouths their company that doesn't even work there. During my initial SAI training, my check airman Instructor made two points (he'd been with Southern since the SAT/C130 days) - he always got paid and Southern has never liked to furlough. In my opinion, the SAI has done a good job keeping their non-furloughed pilots employed and flying. It's interesting to hear how many people know how SAI is operated, based on a friends negative comments, that works for Southern. I've got a number of fellow pilot friends that are out of work. I've told them how tough it can be to work at SAI, duty days and various HR issues and they still want to come here. Believe me when I say, you don't know how well you have it until you've lost it (i.e. you don't have any job).

Best to all of you and my condolences to those of you that may not be flying - I'd pretty much given up on flying (furloughed from AA also); so, now that I'm being recalled, I'm pretty excited!

RP

[Fr8Dog]

Isn't she beautiful?

Flickr: captainrick747's Photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/43334933@N03/)

[B-HKD]

I did not know Atlas is now part of Skyteam :}

[Sleeping Freight Dog]

So is this a photoshop, or did Atlas arrange to lease the 777Fs that AF
didn't take delivery of???

[B-HKD]

Plane is a -300ER...so photoshop.

Any chance of seeing some real 77Fs at Atlas in the future Fr8dog?

Zoni

[Fr8Dog]

Plane is a -300ER...so photoshop.

Any chance of seeing some real 77Fs at Atlas in the future Fr8dog?

Zoni


Got it sent to me from a buddy with to much time on his hands. Sorry my bad, just had to post it. One would hope that we would be getting some at Atlas, but there are only rumors about a two engine A/C after the first of the year. We will wait and see.

But doesn't it look great in Atlas colors?

FR8

[Po Boy]

One awesome looking aircraft, an Atlas 777F :ok:

[Charlie_Fox]

NORWALK, Conn., Oct. 16 /PRNewswire/ -- Thai Airways International Public Company Limited recently signed a Block Space Agreement to utilize two Boeing 777-200 Long Range Freighter Aircraft operated by Southern Air Inc. (SAI).
Mr. Pruet Boobphakam, THAI Executive Vice President Commercial and Acting Managing Director of Cargo & Mail Commercial Department, said that under the Aircraft Block Space Agreement, THAI acquired all of the capacity on SAI's brand new B777-200LR Freighter aircraft. The agreement makes THAI the first operator in the region to offer this capability to its cargo customers.
The B777-200LR Freighter is the most advanced freighter aircraft ever built in term of fuel efficiency and low carbon footprint and has more than 100 metric tons of cargo capacity. The two aircraft will arrive in early 2010 and are expected to be used initially for the route from Bangkok to Europe and eventually for additional routes such as Australia and the US.
At the signing ceremony, Mr. Brian R. Neff, President of SAI, said, "There is growing recognition in the cargo industry that the B777LRF will be the long-haul aircraft for the coming decade and beyond, and our new partnership with THAI Cargo only confirms this recognition. We welcome THAI Cargo into our blue-chip customer base and look forward to a successful cooperation."
Southern Air Inc. was founded in 1999 as a low-cost, high-quality cargo carrier specializing in the provision of block space and aircraft, crew, maintenance, and insurance ("ACMI") services through its fleet of 17 B747 freighter aircraft. It is the first ACMI operator in the world to operate the next generation of freighter aircraft, which includes the B777-200LRF and the B747-8F.

[shittykitty]

Where is southern getting these 777? out of the desert off of the line? when do they take delivery?

[Devil Man]

Straight from Boeing early 2010