What does it take to set up a landing site?

[Simonta]

Hi rotorheads.

A friend has some land adjacent to a riding school within the M25 and is thinking about 2 options:

1. To simply offer a service, kind of "park and ride" for their customers to fly in, do some riding and fly out. Assuming that no money changes hands and that movements take place on no more than 28 days in any 365, I believe that no authority from the CAA or planning permission is required and that pilots need only adhere to the ANO. I have already advised them to talk to the local planning authority regardless.

2. To offer a paid service to anyone who wants landing within the M25 and easy access to London (i.e. to charge handling fees), I have no idea even where to begin looking.

Advice, pointers, corrections all welcome.

Cheers

Simon

[JimBall]

British Helicopter Association here (http://www.bhab.flyer.co.uk/index2.htm)

[minigundiplomat]

Riding schools and helicopters do not mix well. There have been several fatalities following riders being thrown from horses after helicopters have passed by.

You may want to think very carefully about this idea, and get a crapload of indemnity insurance.

[Two's in]

As MGD said, any scheme involving helicopters within visual and aural range of horses is (a) dangerous, and (b) sheer lunacy. Don't even go there, unless civil litigation holds a particular fascination for your friend.

[VeeAny]

JimBall

The BHA have had a new site for a while British Helicopter Association | Home (http://www.britishhelicopterassociation.org)



Gary

[Bertie Thruster]

any scheme involving helicopters within visual and aural range of horses is (a) dangerous, and (b) sheer lunacy.

Not always the case....we operate an air ambulance in a rural area of UK and average about a 100 horse riding incidents a year (approx 10% of our call-outs).

Many of these involve landings at riding schools or cross country riding events.

We have even been sent to incidents caused by horses spooked by aircraft.

Good comms with those on the ground and a favourable wind always helps but extreme caution is always required.

It also helps operating a relatively quiet helicopter (902)

[61 Lafite]

I have to hover from my hangar over to a paddock which I use for departure/approach, and there are generally horses in it. After about 3 years of it going on - they still move away - sometimes at a canter - when they see the helicopter coming, but I have seen them then continuing to graze with me in a high hover less than 50 yards away.

They get used to it.

Lafite

[MightyGem]

They get used to it.
True, but it's the "getting used to it" bit that can be a problem.

[heli1]

Who are these loonies who go riding horses anyway...all that stable cleaning and sweaty odours....blocking country roads...eating valuable grass when we have food shortages ....now the French have the right idea !!

[ShyTorque]

I recently watched a lady struggle to control a very skittish horse on a road, causing a minor traffic hold up.

It got me thinking. (Firstly, nice jodphurs)!

Secondly, and more importantly, if I were to drive a wheeled vehicle with faulty steering or brakes on the road, or any other fault which gave it "a mind of its own", especially with no MOT, tax or insurance, I would soon be in deep trouble with the authorities.

How come some horse riders think it's quite acceptable to take an unroadworthy or untrustworthy horse on the public highway?

Back on thread, I would hate to think of an accident being caused by a helicopter - be very, very careful about mixing the two in close proximity.

[FloaterNorthWest]

My two pence worth,

We operate a S76 daily out of two stud farms with up to 80 racehorses in each. When they are in the fields they form a large herd with an alpha (male or female) who controls their behaviour. If he/she likes helicopters he/she will be calm and so will the rest of the herd and quite often they will stand there and just look at us.

It also helps having a noisy helicopter (I am told by our racing manager) as if they can hear it coming they look for it, assess the threat and reactive accordingly. The problem comes if the threat pops up from nowhere and they have no time to assess so flight or fight kicks in and they are spooked. We have horses that throw the jockeys if a piece of paper blows in front of them, then do it again 10 minutes later when the same piece of paper blows past again but will stand and look at us landing 10 metres away.

If you are setting up a HLS at a riding school you are going to have a real mix of horses, all with different characters. Most of the time they are not going to form herds so will do there own thing or react to what everyone else is doing. Add to the mix inexperienced handlers and riders and you can have a real bag of potential problems.

You also have to look at the helicopters and pilots that are going to be using the HLS. Most will be professional and considerate but this industry is blighted with people that know best and like to show people what they have achieved in life and how good they are. They are generally arrogant and don't take advice readily. It's these few who will cause the problem. As they say "You can't make things idiotproof because idiots are very ingenius."

Personally I wouldn't set up a HLS at a riding school for the above reasons.

If you are, don't site the HLS adjacent to the school put it in a field away from the school where the horses are in fields so have room to see you coming and have room to move away from the threat or react a little. Site it downwind from school for the prevailing wind direction.

I would vet the pilots and have a strict set of operating procedures and get lots of insurance!!

Remember what you do will affect the whole industry.

Good Luck.

[Bertie Thruster]

Tried a new way with a horse incident yesterday; leave the rider behind and fly the horse!

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i97/nmhsu/heavyload.jpg?t=1251736939

[ShyTorque]

Bertie, you really should stop pulling so much collective, You're doing that Exploder no good at all.

[TeeS]

Be honest Bertie! That wasn't a horse, just too much tiffin. ;)

TeeS

[Bertie Thruster]

I beleive that photo demos a classic case of either 'Flapping to Double D' or VRS (Very Rubbery State). :8

Same day we had a slightly smaller casualty to deal with (rear seat passenger from overturned car.):

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i97/nmhsu/aug09late004.jpg

(Apologies for thread drift)

[topendtorque]

What does it take to set up a landing site?


Incredibly simple, NO NOISE OUT THE BACK.



It got me thinking. (Firstly, nice jodphurs)!

LOL, another proper bastard.
maybe this story is closer to the truth.

Man saddled with drink-riding conviction - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://search.abc.net.au/search/click.cgi?url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/29/2670472.htm&rank=3)

He was caught again very soon after 400 kilometres away, drink driving, a motor car this time.

Another bloke a few years ago, down in the back of woop woop, got lumbered for riding a camel under the influence. I knew his brother well, the story is true.


Not always the case....we operate an air ambulance in a rural area of UK and average about a 100 horse riding incidents a year (approx 10% of our call-outs).



Amazing statistics. about the same % as workers compensation payouts in the Territory for a recent three year period. one would think that the NT would be higher than rural English, but people there have found electric cut-off saws, butchers knives, flailing pump rods, motor cars on dusty roads, etc.

I would have thought the English horse community much more genteel and careful.
cheere tet