'I can't check you in without your reference number'!

[Businesstraveller]

This is the frequent refrain at check-in desks, particularly with no-frills airlines. Once I politely enquired if it wasn't at all possible to check me in with just my passport for a domestic flight on a no-frills carrier, to which the answer was an emphatic no. Well a fortnight later there was a monster long queue at check-in and the staff were clearly trying to check people in as fast as possible. Did they ask for my reference number when I presented my passport? No - rather the lady was happy to confirm from presenting my passport that I had a pre-allocated seat and had booked for hold luggage.
I am more than happy to present my reference number at check-in, hence why I carry it every week. Yes, I appreciate it's probably easy to have a standard method of checking people in. Just don't see why the check-in staff had to tell a porkie-pie in the first instance.
Bit of a difference when travelling BA/BMI domestic and all I take is my FF card - no passport/drivers license/reference number required or asked for.

[Malone]

I am not too sure why it is essential to have the reference number, it is useful to have in case of problems.
In all the check-in systems that I have used you are able to pull up a passenger by name, no problem. If there are several passengers with the same name the reference number will speed up the process.
The reference number used to be preferable for the self-service machines, but in these days of APIS details being needed for nearly everywhere, your passport and flight number should be better.
Why the staff are so insistent on the number will either be because they have a system that doesn't work on names, or maybe you are encountering the few whose power-craze is giving the whole check-in community a bad name.

[racedo]

It depends on whether staff actually work for the airline or are contracted by ground service agents with a statement of requirements of what they are supposed to do.

[Final 3 Greens]

The slightly different variety of this scenario that irritates me goes as follows

F3G arrives at check in (for multiple flights), hands over passport with eticket recipt in it

Agent hands back eticket receipt without looking at it and keeps passport

Agent then asks "where are you flying to?"

F3G replies politely with destination, but feels like saying "why didn't you read the ticket, dork?"

This must happen 3-4 times every month.

[Scumbag O'Riley]

If you present to checkin in good time, with a confirmed reservation, and documents proving beyond a reasonable doubt your identity (passport), and they don't let you on because you don't know your reference, then surely that is "denied boarding". So airline gets to pay immediate compensation, give you your money back/transport you later after having looked after you until the later flight, plus any extra damages to cover losses and which you might claim in a court.

[angels]

Scumbag - Nice idea, but I bet there's something in the small print which will mean you haven't got a leg to stand on.

If this happened to me I would scream, "I am not a number, I am a free man!!" and be carted off to a secure place gibbering.....:}

[Final 3 Greens]

Scumbag

Interestingly enough, easyJet carriers regs say "Passengers must be able to quote their booking reference."

Ryanair now have online check in, so presumably if you turned up and said you had lost your BP, they would be quite happy to trace your reservation and reissue for 40€ or whatever they charge.

I know that secutiy and also immigration occasionally check tickets (it has happended to me a very few times), so personally I always print and carry a copy of the etkt receipt with me.

[Capetonian]

I prefer to have as few bits of paper as possible with me so I sometimes write reference numbers in my diary.

When I quoted one to an officious Servisair check in agent at LGW he said he needed to see it in writing, I just thought he'd misheard me, so I handed my diary across to him so he could read it. He thought I was trying to be funny, in fact I wasn't, and said he meant he needed to see the print out. When I told him I didn't have one he puffed himself up like a fat little toad and told me he 'had the right' (I think he actually said : "I am empowered") to deny me boarding.

"Go ahead, this will be interesting" I said and stood there. 'Just this once ....' he let me through. I took it up with the Servisair senior agent on duty who said that he was 'possibly being excessively rigorous.'

[nivsy]

Had the same "problem" at Malaga recently...

Thomas Cook flight...."where is your reference number and print out" barked out by some English woman - I assume being a Thomas Cook Rep standing beside the check in desk while the Spanish lovely behind the desk actually continued to process the boarding card while checking my passport.

Naturally a few strong words was given to the "rep" and boarding card issued with a rather sympathetic smile from Spanish check in girl. Jobsworth Thomas Cook - and rubbish flight to!

Nivsy

[Scumbag O'Riley]

Airline small print is often, maybe even usually, worthless. If they won't let you on solely because you cannot give them your reference then I reckon compensation and everything that goes with it is due.

[frontcheck]

The reason you are asked to quote the reference number is for identification. The airport I work at has flights perated by bmi and flybe and you would be amazed how many people do not know the difference.
There are some routes that both airlines fly and there have been a number of occassions when passengers with the same name were booked to same destination and have gone to the wrong airline counter, therefore the only sure way is to ask for the booking reference to ensure the correct passenger travels with the airline they have paid their money to.
F3G
In the days of paper tickets the information was printed on the coupons in the same format no matter where the ticket was issued, you coild glance at the coupon and within seconds have the information needed to begin the check-in process. With the introduction of e-tkts every printout is in a different format and it is often easier & quicker to ask the passenger where they are flying to rather than wade through pages of hotel,carhire,weather forecast info etc,etc before you get to the flight details.

[strake]

F3G
In the days of paper tickets the information was printed on the coupons in the same format no matter where the ticket was issued, you coild glance at the coupon and within seconds have the information needed to begin the check-in process. With the introduction of e-tkts every printout is in a different format and it is often easier & quicker to ask the passenger where they are flying to rather than wade through pages of hotel,carhire,weather forecast info etc,etc before you get to the flight details.

frontcheck: A very informative (and polite) response.

[Final 3 Greens]

frontcheck

Whilst appreciating the tone of your mail, the irony of it is that the potential flaw in your para 1 is exactly what I am describing.

The check in agent is removing a layer of scrutiny, by using my name to check me in, not the PNR/locator.

As to para two, when I say e-ticket receipt, I mean the eticket receipt from the Amadeus or Sabre GDS, not some waffling 20 page print out from Expodobookers.

Sorry, from my perspective, it just looks someone working around the process.

At Paris, last year, the check in agent asked me whether I would like a window or aisle seat and I said I had 1F pre-reserved. "But that is in business class" she replied, looking rather surprised.

I refered her to the eticket receipt that she had not looked at, to confirm that it was a 'D' class ticket and then I got my seat - but it does make one wonder what reservation she was viewing.

Perhaps you are saying that you ask for the destination and then check the reference #, if so, that seems sensible.

[Capetonian]

As to para two, when I say e-ticket receipt, I mean the eticket receipt from the Amadeus or Sabre GDS, not some waffling 20 page print out from Expodobookers.

These "waffling 20 page print out from Expodobookers" things are a menace for a number of reasons, but some online travel agencies do not provide, or make it hard to access, the official ITR from the GDS. This can be for a multitude of reasons but is often simply to hide the fare details from the passengers. I know that IT/BT, nett remit fares, and so on, do not show the fare paid on the pax coupon, but the reality is that there are a number of things going on in the industry whereby the agent does not want the client to see the fare, or it is simply that the ticketing parameters have not been correctly set up.

Good point from F3G, and it should be obligatory for all OLTAs to provide the ITR from the GDS or CRS.

[Malone]

Frontcheck, you are absolutely right.
I suspect that some of the other posters have never been behind a check-in desk in their lives.
They should stick to flying the things where they can use as many acronyms as they like!!
"PNR"s, "Locators" etc, what a load of tosh. All I want to do is get you from A to B with the least possible hassle. It is much easier to ask you where you are flying to rather than plough through piles of paper to look for a reference number.
With regards to different airlines going to the same destination, one should surely know who one is flying with! Although, on second thoughts, that may be an assumption too far I suspect!!
:ugh:

[Avitor]

I always assume I am given a reference number for a reason. Therefore I am prepared to pruduce it, without complaint and readily for whichever *member of staff* who might wish to see it.
Then, I say to myself....'That didn't hurt, did it'! :ok:

[Final 3 Greens]

Malone

"PNR"s, "Locators" etc, what a load of tosh. All I want to do is get you from A to B with the least possible hassle. It is much easier to ask you where you are flying to rather than plough through piles of paper to look for a reference number.

I am pleased to nominate you for the "oxymoron of the year award" :}:}:}:}:}

[Malone]

Thank-you kindly!!
I am afraid that my speech will not be long as I was not expecting such a prestigious award.
:)

[Final 3 Greens]

You haven't won it, yet.

I'm sure that someone else will be along to snatch it from your hands ;)

[west lakes]

With regards to different airlines going to the same destination, one should surely know who one is flying with! Although, on second thoughts, that may be an assumption too far I suspect!!


Some folk can't even manage to get to the correct terminal where an airline flies from two at the same airport.

Gatwick North last year, Easyjet fly from both North (Ex GB routes) & South
Couple checking in at north (after having been stood next to a large sign explaining which terminal to check in dependant upon flight number, and no doubt with South Terminal printed on their voucher) were rather shocked to find they were at the wrong terminal and had little time left to get to south to check in correctly!!!!!

As for the reference number some have asked for it, some want to see the voucher, some are happy with the passports only! Depends on the airline, the Airport (handling agent or airline staff) and I suspect the experience/helpfulness of the actual person on check in.

[strake]

F3G

You made a statement which inferred how tiresome you find check-in agents who don't perform exactly as you wish. You received one of the most polite and informative responses (from someone in the job) I've seen on here for a long time which, apparently, was not good enough for you. Is life so awful for you that it really is the final straw to have to say "Malta" or "London" when asked a simple question by someone trying to do their job?

[Final 3 Greens]

Strake

I did acknowledge the helpful tone of Frontcheck's reply.

Frontcheck's para 1 does say the reference number is required for identification, as it is not unknown for bookings with simliar or identical names to exist on multiple airlines.

So if that is true, then what I described, where the agents do not ask for the reference number at all and ignore the ITR, is taking a risk of putting me on the wrong flight (as flights flights from different airlines are often handled by banks of check in desks)

I then quote a real example of where the agent did not appear to be looking at my reservation, having studiously ignored the ITR with the PNR.

What is your problem?

[frontcheck]

Whilst I appreciate your last comment F3G, check-in agents do not actually look at the reservation when checking-in. Depending on the system being used they see an abreviated version with basically name/flight/destination/onto flights , most other information is added at the time of check-in. Not all airlines use the same "fare buckets" so a "D" class ticket on airline "A" might well be Business Class but not necessarily on airline "B". Most airport staff chop and change between systems 3 or 4 timer per shift so it is understandable that a certain amount of confusion arises. Not making any excuses just the reality of the job. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "hello ,where are you flying to today?" much beter than a transaction in complete silence:D

[Final 3 Greens]

frontcheck

You sound like a pretty decent person and I am sure that checking in with you would be a good experience.

FYI, when I reviewed the check in competencies at a major European airline, the reception at the desk were defined as

Threshold - smile at customer, greet them with 'good morning sir/madam'

Proficient - smile at customer, quickly read name on docs and greet with 'good morning mr/mrs/ms.....'

I guess my beef is that I arrive at a premium check in, I've prepared the ITR and passport at the right page so the agent can see all the details easily and then the agent does not even glance at the ITR, but mindlessly asks where I am flying to, often failing to return my good morning/good afternoon.

It reminds me of the complaints from cabin crew that pax haven't got their boarding passes ready for inspection on boarding; I have gone to the trouble of getting the right docs together and the agent doesnt even look (I quite undeerstand your point about long and confusing print outs, but I am presenting the Sabre or Amadeus ITR - I find it discourteous and not competent (by the major airline standards I mentioned.)

If I was checking in at a long queue on a loco, I would take a different view, but normally I'm business or occasionally first class, is it too much to expect a comensurate check in experience?

[VS-LHRCSA]

Some systems I have used, in the check-in process, go straight to destination, with the destination of your last check in as a default. If an agent check in say 6 JKFs then a passenger presents for BOS, the first thing the agent does is override JKF. This has to be done before anything else.

Using a PNR to retrieve a booking actually slows down the process and brings you to a screen that you can't use to check in. It is quicker to have the destination and then go straight to the name. It also gives you a chance to engage the passenger in a conversation by asking where they're off to.

I would hate think that any of the passengers I have checked thought I was a 'dork' because I asked them where they were going?

[Final 3 Greens]

VS-LHRCSA

The question is, if a pax presented you with the ITR as well as their passport, which has all the info you need, would you simply set it to one side, ignore it and then ask for the destination?

If so, I would think you a dork, because in my opinion, it is discourteous behaviour to ignore a document handed to you by a customer - if you quickly scan it and can't easily see the destination, then fair enough.

Of course I wouldn't say what I thought, I would politely answer your question. Two discourtesies do not a courtesy make.

And then, if you started to show surprise that I was expecting a business class seat, when the ignored ITR clearly shows 30K allowance and a seat allocation of 1F (yes, not guranteed, but a pretty good clue to the class of travel), I would think you were a double dork, but I still wouldn't say anything.

But I'm also sure, from your many comments over the years on the forum that you are not a dork and don't act like one, I imagine that you are courteous and a credit to your company, as frontcheck is to his/hers.

The majority of check in personnel are a pleasure to deal with, a minority are not.

Sadly, as a very frequent traveller, I do encounter the minority frequently.

[Malone]

F3G,
I see your point.
It seems to me that the real problem is sheer ignorance of the staff concerned, no idea of how to be civil. As you say, there a few around!!
During my time I would generally have asked where you were flying to while you were passing your docs to me. That would generally mean that your flight would be up in front of me as I looked at your passport. It is all down to speed of transaction really.
With regards to the Business Class issue. One should NEVER act as that person did, never make assumptions about someone, it will usually come back to bite you in the ***!!!!
Hope that this was fairly oxymoron-free!
:)

[Final 3 Greens]

Malone

You are right, its the lack of civility.

Asking whilst handing documents across is courteous and if it speeds up the prcess, then so much the better.

I was only joking about the oxymoron yesterday, as I hope you realised from the :} and ;) icons.

[Malone]

F3G
No offence taken, it is good to have a smile now and then!!!
:ok:

[frontcheck]

Another reason for asking the "final" destination is to work out if the baggage can be through checked. This may seem like a very silly question but not all airlines will through check if on seperate tickets. Some travel companies have the habit of adding all the onward sectors into the booking to try and fool the system into thinking the customer has a through ticket, depending on the system being used it is sometimes quite difficult to work out what is actually going on, so please guys give us a break there is more to check-in than just smiling and looking good ! :p:p:p

[Final 3 Greens]

frontcheck

I can understand your comment about separate tickets and interlining, but most of my flights are point to point on a single ticket.

Occasionally I have been asked about my final destination, but always after the agent has looked at the paperwork and normally in the context of whether I wish to check through or pick up my bags partway (if there is a long connection.) Thsi tlc is appreciated, for reasons that will become evident in a min.

I did once have some helpful git at Alitalia check my baggage through to final destination without asking, when I had a 23 hour connection (from 8pm to 7pm) and was intending to do a day's business enroute, as well as staying at a hotel.

Worse, he didnt ask me if I wished him to do this or tell me he'd done it and only issued me a BP to the intermediate stop. I didn't realise until my bag didn't appear and then I looked at the stub and realised what had happened!

It took ages to find the bag in the holding area in Rome and the local AZ guys went bananas (fortunately not at me, they were very helpful)

[lexxity]

I hate our system, hi Frontcheck, for not allowing you to drop a last sector if it's with an interline partner. In the old days we could just drop a portion of a passengers journey in a second. These days it's a matter of offloading a pax (if they've already checked in at the self service before coming to the desk) and rechecking them in and telling the system to drop a portion. Time consuming and frustrating for the passenger and check in agent alike.

I'm also in the camp of asking the destination before the docs have come over the desk, to get things moving quicker. :ok:

My current pet hate is pax who pretend to have no documents whilst arguing over their baggage allowance. :ugh: :hmm: :mad:

[frontcheck]

I hear what you are saying lexxity, for those who have not worked on a check-in desk the process and the questions you have to consider when checking-in for a legacy carrier goes something like this:-
1/hello, good morning or whatever
2/What is your final destination today?
3/have you checked-in online already but been unable to print the b/pass?
4/can I find the name in the system (not always obvious believe me)
5/are you on a through ticket?
6/ is the passport valid?
7/do you need a visa?
8/do you need a document check?
9/what is your baggage allowance?
10/do you have a frequent traveller card?
11/does the card entitle you to extra allowance?
12/does the card entitle you to lounge access?
13/is your baggage over the allowance?
14/is any single item over 23kg, if so a heavy charge may apply
15/are you checking any sports or oversize items,if so a charge may apply
16/if through checking, can I access the onto flight to print b/pass
17/add a transfer tag (if needed)
18/add a heavy tag (if applicable)
19/add a priority tag (if required)
20/is there any special assistance required?
21/ask the standard security questions
21/explain how to get to gates and time of boarding
During the above process the printer sticks or the bag tag roll needs replaced,the system freezes,the bag belt stops because a bag has got stuck going round one of the many corners on the conveyor system ,the dispatch office are on your back to close the flight on time and get the next one opened,the phone constantly rings,the radio never stops AND we do it all with a smile (well sometimes) then just as you finish this the next family in the queue turn up with a dog, firearms, a buggy, a bouble bass,a microwave, a cuddly toy , and granny in a wheelchair :hmm:
You know you are not going to get a break because there should be 17 agents on duty but due to sickness etc there are only 12 ,we dont have the luxury to call staff from standby (like crew) and we dont have minimum staff levels (like crew) we just have to get on with it.

My airline has calculated that the average time to process the above is 4 minutes, so to anyone who would like to try it,,,,,you are welcome to have a go.

Anyone want a job ! :D

[Haven't a clue]

Frontcheck I sympathise.

We pax are now used to checking on line - one click and here's the bp. So when we have to deal with a human at the airport we are mystified as to why there are so many keypresses required. Your post explains why - thank you.

There's a real need for the industry who have spent a lot on their web interfaces to now concentrate their efforts on the systems at the airport. Surely it must be possible to make this process easier for both the checkin staff and the pax?

[beamender99]

There's a real need for the industry who have spent a lot on their web interfaces to now concentrate their efforts on the systems at the airport. Surely it must be possible to make this process easier for both the checkin staff and the pax?


Certainly BA, over a decade ago spent a lot of effort making things as quick as possible for the C/I agent to process the pax in the computer.
This involved assumptions about the most likely parameters for the next customer.
This reduced the number of keystrokes to an absolute minimum.
( it should be quicker now as the smoker / non smoker option has gone)
Quite a bit of the development was done by front line check in staff.

[Final 3 Greens]

frontcheck

I understand your frustrations (systems and processes) and often wonder why airlines invest so much money in projecting their brands, focusing on the airbonre experience, when the first and last contact the passenger will have are with ground personnel and systems.

Some of the questions I get asked on check in make me seriously wonder about the agent's awareness - here are some gems from the past few years, shared for a laugh, not as a dig :eek:

Have you checked in online? Yes (you are holding my boarding pass)

Have you checked in online? No (you are holding my boarding pass from the self service kiosk)

I can't find your visa to enter India, do you have one? No, because I am flying to New York and not to India. (and you are holding my ticket)

Would you like an emergency exit row? (trying to be helpful) No thanks (I was rather hoping to get one in the front since it says F on my ticket, but you didn't look at it)

Do you realise that Lufthansa have issued your Swiss ticket incorrectly? (Strangely enough, I never did the IATA ticketing course, so it looks like a string of gibberish to me)

Have you any skis to check in? No thanks (the snow is lousy in Malta this year - I wasn't travelling from a snow resort, either.)

Have you got a visa to enter the Schengen area? (earnestly looking at a Saudi visa in UK passport and confusing it with the details page .....)

Finally and a classic conversational question 'what country is Malta in?'

Once again, I stress that the majority of agents are professional and courteous and do a great job :ok:

[Capetonian]

Some of the questions I get asked on check in make me seriously wonder about the agent's awareness :

This was at Frankfurt, question directed at my travelling companion who has a Spanish passport :

"Ver ist your visa to South Africa".

"I don't need one"

"Ja, you do, only ze EU passport holders can go without one"

"Spain is part of the EU"

"Nein"

So we hold up the passport where it says : 'Comunidad Europea' on the cover page.

"Und vat does zis mean".

[alcockell]

"So we hold up the passport where it says : 'Comunidad Europea' on the cover page. "Und vat does zis mean"."

:ugh::{:D

Whoops!

[lexxity]

My airline has calculated that the average time to process the above is 4 minutes, so to anyone who would like to try it,,,,,you are welcome to have a go.

Anyone want a job !

We work for the same outfit if your username is any guide, so you forgot the part where the system just closes down for no apparent reason or decides it no longer likes the onto and just won't run the bagtags. You also forgot the cheap nasty bagtags we use now that jam all the time!

F3G, :ugh::ugh:. If I have a problem I always explain why this is going to take a while.
Wednesday morning for instance, I had a really lovely couple arrive at check in at 0600, the flight closes at 0605, they hadn't had their alarm call at all or their pickup ontime. Checked her ticket in, including all the bags to SFO via LHR with no problems. Entered the Gentlemans name (our wonderful system will allow group check in on line and at the self service machines but not at the desk :mad:). I couldn't even find the Gentleman listed.
So I ran it through the codeshare flight number as that sometimes works. Nope.
Checked ticket numbers either side of the Wifes number. Nope.
Time is ticking on and the dispatcher has called to close out.
Find the Gentleman in the not accepted list with no ticket details.
Call the ticket desk to see if they can see the ticket number. They say too busy and put me on hold!
I then run (well sort of fast walk, no running in uniform now :=) across the check in hall after issuing a brief explanation of what is going on viz. no ticket details and none on itinerary either and believe me we checked every bit of paper they had.
Ticket agent calls LHR, onward carrier not in yet so no answer. Can't find the Gentlemans reservation AT ALL! Can see the Lady but not him.
Only option is buy new ticket to LHR, we will then call onward when they open and see if we can get all details from them and then refund the ticket to LHR.
Me:back to pax, hurry him to ticket desk, he buys ticket. Me back to check in and print boarding card. Rush back to pax and escort both through security and down to gate.
It is 0615 by the time we take their boarding cards at the gate.
Just another quiet morning at work. :ok:
(secretly we love it, but don't tell anyone.)

[Final 3 Greens]

Lexx

Once again, I stress that the majority of agents are professional and courteous and do a great job

And some go above and beyond a great job, well done for taking the responsibilty of looking after the couple. :ok:

[nicolai]

So we hold up the passport where it says : 'Comunidad Europea' on the cover page.

"Und vat does zis mean".

... zis means zat you should look inside ze passport where it [probably] says ze same thing in all the languages of ze European Union including German [and very likely English]. Zen you should take your overly-Teutonic head and put it in ze toilet and press ze flush lever until you cool down and think better.

(Such people exist in Britain too; I was once asked, at Gatwick, to fill in the non-EU landing card when I arrived with a passport from a country which joined the EU at the same time as Britain!)