wanting to get into aircraft engineering!

[georgek2]

At 23 years old after having to close my own business i find myself wanting to get into aircraft engineering im not sure yet if i want to go into the electrical side or mechanical side yet bet working on aircrafts is the way i want to go.

i have as yet no qualifications but am thinking of starting a course on the 14th of september a betc National award in engineering the course takes one year to complete but im hoping that once i have this i can go on to learn in the industry but a half decent wage. ive looked at apprentiships but they just wont pay enough for me to consider them. (mortgage, 2 children)

can anybody advise me of any other courses i should take alongside the one above?

does anybody know of somewhere in norfolk england that i could go to maybe once a week whilst at collage to get some hands on experiance behind me?

[MartinCh]

GK2,
I don't want to sound negative, but you've just eliminated two main routes towards career in aircraft engineering.

Nat is going to start aerospace/aeronautical eng, it's more theory based. That's not aircraft maintenance, towards part-66 theory/exams etc. You could do that part-time at one of the Unis, many around. Not so with practical/part-66 training.

If you can't commit to full-time degree or apprenticeship due to wage levels, you could try to get there part time. It'd still require time and dedication.
I'm sure 'old salts' would know all the ins&outs, but frankly, studying towards part-66 theory without working in the industry, ahem, I guess it's possible, but..

Also, since you wouldn't be exempt from full 5 years of experience to have full licence, you'd still have to work for lower salary/wages even if you manage to do the theory exams. Which will expire 5 years after finishing them. Once full B1 or B2 engineer, salary should do.

Bit of Catch-22. This is one of the reasons I don't want to settle down, serious relationship, have kids (just yet). Flight training, studies, moving around. Oh. Best to be single without commitments.

Yes, you can do some modules part time with the likes of Air Service Training Perth UK aircraft maintenance training (http://www.airservicetraining.co.uk/) I don't think you could do initial AME course part time with college/Uni. Kingston do 'Year 0' for folks who don't have A-levels/access course/etc, which also gets you A licence. You probably can't do that either. Then, you probably still wouldn't have 'half decent wage'.

Hey Nat, I'm starting H402, BSc A.M.E. at Glam Uni. I may see you around.

[jim_lewis1]

If you are thinking about Engineering in general then the OU seems ideal.

They do not require any entrance qualifications, (but you would be advised to start with level 1 courses). And they are specifically designed for people who wish to continue work and balance the commitments of a family life.

Check out:

OU Engineering Web Site (http://engineering.open.ac.uk/index.htm)

[shocks]

I am starting a course through Kingston Uni. with KLM in Norwich:

Introductory course - Kingston University - Aircraft Engineering (http://www.kingston.ac.uk/~kuweb/aircraft_eng/courses/introductorycourse.htm)

You could talk to Steve Barnes at from the engineering faculty to discuss options. :)

[MartinCh]

shocks, he's probably aiming for part time course. quoting myself, ehm,
Kingston do 'Year 0' for folks who don't have A-levels/access course/etc, which also gets you A licence. You probably can't do that either. Then, you probably still wouldn't have 'half decent wage'.If I were around KU campus/local college doing Year Zero, with A lic theory, it'd make more sense than access course I finished couple months ago. Well..

The thing with initial aircraft eng courses is that one kinda has to learn in workshop/hangar, right? What's the point reading up tons of stuff without relating it to practical experience? Maybe for top-ups, MSc/MEng..

Still, I believe something 'tailored' to your situation could be achieved taken module by module, but eventually you have to take the jump, GK2.
Check out some of the threads about the hassle of Engineers in Forces taking the leap to civvy sector. They tend to do part-66 theory beforehand so that with their experience (current salary, too) they aren't on 'fitters' wages'.

[Jetset41]

Dear All,
The chap said he wanted to get into aircraft engineering, no-one has said that you don't need qualifications to start, yes it hepls in the long run, but why don't you go see some companys to see if you can start unlicenced, see if you like it before committing lots of time and money at college/uni.

In the old days that how we did it, get your experience then go for exams.

Jetset41

[Short_Circuit]

wanting to get into aircraft engineering!

Help, I want to get out!:{

[blackhand]

Help, I want to get out!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/boohoo.gif

GeorgeK2 There is a job in the industry for you ..... MINE:E

[hoodyski]

I know somewhere in Norfolk, England - its called RAF Marham!

Join the RAF as a engine/airframe or avionics engineer, do your mandatory 3 or 4 years service during which time you can get all your Part 66 modules done (the RAF will even pay some of your exam fees), leave with a good chance of getting a civil aviation job, get 1 year of civil maintenance experience under your belt and hey presto! your a fully licenced B1/B2 engineer. That way you will always be earning and have support for your family.

Thats roughly what I did and im now earning a fortune working on helicopters and have never looked back.

[planecrazy.eu]

Wondering what type of pay one calls a fortune.

I have heard, read and been told that B1/2'S get nice pay packets, but when looking on job boards they go to around 45k tops.

Is 45k a fortune or is there pay levels way above this? just wondering on pay levels for the career minded person. A teacher at my place recons 100k is reachable, and he was on more than that at a private charter maintenance place in the uk. hot air?

[boeing_eng]

100K!!:mad::mad:....Not in the UK on PAYE taxation!

A highly qualified Line supervisory Engineer with B1 & B2 and string of types might pull in around 70K with overtime working for a decent UK airline.

The normal salary (before OT) can be anything between 40 - 50K for a B1/B2 Line Eng with company approvals on around three types (depending on shift pay and other variable elements such as service increments etc)

[MartinCh]

hoodyski, sounds like a plan. With 3/4yr commitment and salary higher than apprenticeship, could be workable for George. He'd get that 5 years of experience for full B1/2 'in no time' if leaving service after minimum period.
If RAF is for you, go for it.

[Alber Ratman]

A difficult one to judge what the best route is with a longish reccession biting the industry. The college route is expensive and while it reduces the minimum time requirement to two years 145 employment time, you will still be a beginner in the industry when you leave college and while some places will be willing to take you on, competition is very tight for jobs and some places will want people "who are proven that they can open the can!!" The RAF route is hoping that you will get aircraft employment (there are other facets of RAF engineering employment that you will not see an aircraft.. rare but possible), however they will pay a large percentage of the fees for doing the modules via a recognised ELCAS distance learning course. You would have to put the time in to self study, even with the distractions of service life that regulary inject into any spar time you have. You will also have to do a minimum of a years 145 time and fulfil all the practical tasks required for the respective licence. A degree means nothing in the business without ALL the CAA modules, unless management is going to be your ultimate objective. If you can get into an appenticeship scheme or any other set up that will get you the ticket, there are some companies that do such. Again the recession is affecting these schemes. Personally I did 25 years in the RAF and studied the modules in the last 2 years. Am still converting from mil speak to the industry (terminology and the difference in certain cultures is the biggest leap, the nuts and bolts are similar, of course) however I find it rewarding. I didn' get in with my preferred employer (although I managed to get important connie time with them) and my second interview got me a permie position. This however is not close to my settled home, an unfortunate side effect of the current climate and how this industry works as a whole anyway. This job however should allow me to jump the last hurdles..

[Alber Ratman]

You also need the type rating (level 3 course) plus the relevent practical tasks on that type.. and the company approval before large wads of cash are liable to come your way.

[boeing_eng]

get 1 year of civil maintenance experience under your belt and hey presto! your a fully licenced B1/B2 engineer.

And that's all there is to it!!:ugh::ugh:........In fact, I'm sure I saw "add water and stir" B1/B2 License kits in Tesco's the other day!!:}:}

To georgek2, planecrazy.eu and any other youngsters considering this career........Before your bank account is troubled by the kind of salaries discussed above, you'll be fed up with studying for and sitting CAA exams (and thats just the beginning as Alber alludes to above!)

The money may be decent in the end but its a slog!

[Alber Ratman]

The CAA runs a tight ship on licencing due to the fact that it requires competent people with sufficent experience to carry out the duties of a certifying technician. The type courses also have to be sat as a formal PART 147 course, that unless somebody (a company) is paying you to do it, is going to cost you in the region of 5 to 7 Grand (taking loss of earnings into consideration, if you are connie).

Lads, don't be taken in by a Kingston Uni statement that you will have a ticket in four years. You will have to prove to others post course, that you have the common sense and the handskills to go with any knowledge learned and pick up the specifics for that type that you will rated on. You will hate the CAP 741 as much as any uni assignment, because that will be the documentation that will have to be completed to get the ticket, regardless of having the modules. The number of mechs you see that haven't been filling that document up on a regular basis..:ugh::ugh:

[planecrazy.eu]

If i could pull in 50k a year, and work in an industry i love, i would be one happy guy.

Dont care about study and exams, wouldnt mind constant study if i get to a good level in a good time.

To go from 0 to B1/B2 on 40k+, what time scales you talking? 10 years, 15 years?

Whats the chances of seen a few european or work citys?

[Alber Ratman]

If you are good and lucky, 4 years is possible to get a ticket and rating, via a 147 basic course, a company taking you on and proving your worthy of the investment of the type courses and of a type approval. Wherever you are comfortable to do that in the timescale is another matter. That wouldn't get you a 40K + pay packet at a Base MRO (although overtime and connying can). A few types on the ticket and other things like shift pay will. That will take a little longer. However it depends on how good you are..

Good luck in whatever you do..

Waiting for the smartarse to retort anything different!!:E

[HAWK21M]

Unless you are willing to study for hours,work in odd climates outside & odd timings.....then consider this field.
If you have a passion for Mx it would help too.
regds
MEL.

[boeing_eng]

Waiting for the smartarse to retort anything different!!

Not a smart arse but with over 30 years in the industry hopefully a bit of experience.....;);)

Four years from zero to a type rating/company approval may have been possible but is very unlikely in the current climate unless you are extraordinarily switched-on and find the right employer!

A more realistic timescale for an Ab-Initio would be two years classroom work with "very limited" hands-on experience that these type of courses offer. Then, two years “suitable” maintenance experience (if you then can manage to find an employer!) Bear in mind that during the two years "on the tools" you will need to learn a massive amount that the books didn't teach you, build your confidence and knowledge of how complex modern transport aircraft are maintained.

Whilst you might then persuade the CAA into issuing you a License after four years from starting, most airline employers would expect far more "hands on" maintenance experience before issuing a full B1/B2 company approval (which is when you start to reap the rewards for all the hours of studying etc!) Apart from holding an appropriate type rating, you will need to show that you are experienced and capable of making important decisions affecting the airworthiness of an aircraft.

Be aware that the "A" License is now heavily used by many Airlines/MRO's to save money (particularly in Line Maintenance) You may be given the opportunity to start Certifying this way with limited & simple tasks and then gain a B1/B2 approval as vacancies open up and you prove your suitability.

Either way, in my experience (major UK Airline) I would say a realistic timescale from starting to a full type approval on an airliner is more likely to be in the region of 7 - 8 years.

Hope this helps:ok: