Mega Merged: REX Recruitment/Cadetship and Working for REX

[JHJORGEN]

I was looking at the new REX Cadetship and I have to ask myself is it worth it? You pay 40K upfront and then when you finish you have to pay them back another 40K on a wage which I am led to believe is only 40K. Who in there right mind would go for that? I know 18 year old kids who work for woolies and earn not much less than that and they didn't even finish year 12 and have no training.

[FlyingChipmunk]

With NIL progress to command within the 2 years, only those who have not done enough research will do it :ouch:........and then find out a year later that their peers are joining (after having paid way less that $80,000 for their training in the real world) and have got the 500 hours multi from GA to progress to Captaincy!! And of course, they were paid much more than $40/year gaining those precious hours.

But nuff' said, there wil be those who will make up the numbers.:sad:

[Lacma]

Has anyone got any info on what the story is with this all yet though? Other than what is on their site, have they got training organisations sorted or anything? Or are they essentially still looking for EOI's via an actual application now?

[bloggs2]

Just keep saying "No Thanks" and eventually even this raw deal will improve.

[pilotdude09]

The thing is 40K is a hell of alot cheaper than the QF cadet program and atleast REX will give you a job out it, Qantas may or may not. Big difference REX is actually putting something towards your training etc, where as QF may reduce some of the costs but its still a hell of alot of money plus doing the Uni degree you are going to have HECS/FEE HELP loan to repay to the government and ontop of that you have your flying debts.

REX may not be the best airline in the world or pay the best but at some stage they are going to have to improve the wages and condtions.

Will be interesting to find out more details, i have applied but would want to know a hell of alot more info before i was to do anything.

Wonder if they will do a 'roadshow' for info, or if they already have enough applications/suckers(as it could well be) not to have to do anything.

[Keg]

I thought the whole purpose of the new cadetship was to put the entire cost (including flying training) on HECS? If this is the case then it means very little outlaid to start off with- instantly making it more attractive than the REX deal.

Once finishing the QF cadet course you're off to a regional which means you're going to earn as much as a REX F/O. The difference is that after a couple of years (assuming you keep your standards up and nose clean) you're going to end up with a gig in Qantas as a S/O which will earn you far more than a REX captain earns. The pay from there goes up significantly.

By all means apply for both but you'd be insane to pick the REX cadetship over QF! :eek:

[KRUSTY 34]

All very true Keg.

I think the devil is in the detail with the REX deal.

Are REX putting up half the cost, or is it a loan to be repaid over 5 years of service?

HECS has been mentioned elsewhere, but is it a real possibility, or is this just more spin? Even if it comes to pass, it still has to be paid back.

Under current legislation, the prospects of a cadet upgrading to command are zero. Will this change? Who knows?, but my sources in CASA have mentioned something about "Hell freezing over!"

All these, I would I speculate, are vital questions to be answered before parting with any hard earned cash.

The detail appears to be thin on the ground at the moment, (bit like suitable airline applicants!) Maybe that's the way the Devil wants it.

pilotdude09,

I think it would be prudent to follow your own advice and get the answers to all these questions before sprouting the vitues of the REX scheme!

[pilotdude09]

You cannot put any flying costs associated with a degree on HECS, i emailed Swinbourne, QF and Edit Cowan in Perth and all 3 said the same.....however you can put flying on FEE-HELP as long as it is to do with the course.

HECS only covers your tuts, uni fees, text books etc, which is crap as well.

FEE-HELP lets you get 80k though which is pretty good but you have to pay it through your tax for x amount of years.

So you are still paying 100k+ for the uni course, fees (which are horrendous) and flying.

All im saying is atleast REX gives you something. Thing that would scare me doing the QF program is that at the end of phase 1 you may be told your not required anymore! not to say REX would do the same but if they put money towards you they arent going to let you go!

Anyway, thinking about it, would be easier and better to do your CPL then go joing the Qantas Cadet program? think that would be better experience. Didnt really know much about that part of it untill i read up on it. Sounds alot easier than going through all the uni crap etc.

[Keg]

You must be a manager with REX and trying to frighten people away from the QF program. My information suggests that the only people who haven't gotten a gig with QF after doing the cadetship only have to look in the mirror to see the reason. That number of people can be counted on one hand....out of about 250 or more over the last decade and a half.

[morno]

Pilotdude, Rex don't put anything towards you. You're still paying for the entire thing. Better get your facts right first bud.

The whole thing is the biggest scam I've ever seen. Stop trying to make it seem like a nice option to yourself, and face the facts. It is NOT worth it unless you're interested in being an F/O for the Rex Group for 6-7 years on sub-standard pay!

Notice they have said the Rex "Group". Anyone thought that maybe you won't even end up flying for Rex to start with, and maybe Pelair or one of their other subs??

morno

[locusthunter]

Does anyone know Airlink's position in the whole scheme?? They couldn't be happy...space-cadets instead of GA guys with experience.

[Toluene Diisocyanate]

Plus working for DM:yuk: the rudest most arrogant prick god ever put breath in.

[Ralph the Bong]

I heard an ex AN bloke worked there for about week post 'the collapse'. Apparently he told the guy to shove his job after witnessing some very, very bizarre behaviour...

[The Original Jetpipe]

Sorry to nick the thread!!

Just wondering if anyone has heard back from applying for the Rex cadetship? Application went in over 3/4 weeks ago and except for the auto reply I have heard nothing?? Has anyone?

Regards
TOJP.

[Jeps]

Yes got ask for Trial results yesterday.

[The PM]

Not wanting to sound a smartarse, but why would they be asking for HSC results? That was one of only TWO ( 2 ) criteria asked for in the ad in the Australian, as well as one of the items on the later application form on their website. With the greatest of respect, can people not read?
Incomplete or missing details provided on forms to me in a previous job was always a major PITA, and had I the authority to do so, would have binned said forms! :ugh::ugh:

[Jeps]

Having not physically seen the Ad in the paper I was not aware of this criteria however had registered my interest a while beforehand.
Secondly, get over it

[The PM]

Ah, attitude, I like it, you'll go far..... :ok:

How could you have registered your interest before the ad was in the paper? This pre dated the online application by about a week, and was the first opportunity provided by REX to express interest? A genuine question.

[whaet]

The PM,

it wasn't really made clear above... yes, i'm assuming all did send in their results on the app but they asked for a scanned copy of the actual results - for proof or what im not sure :confused:

[The PM]

Whaet...thanks for the clarification!

[Jeps]

PM,
From what i gathered there was numerous Ads in the paper asking different things. Sorry for the attitude, I'm nice...Honest:)

Jeps

[The PM]

No probs.

:ok:

[mr.tos]

Since they ask for HSC results what marks do you think would please them? Qantas only take the top few out of school do you think REX will be the same?

[Jeps]

One would hope not. Lets face it, you can't judge a persons flying ability by the HSC nor their aviation knowledge.

Jeps

[The PM]

I've not been asked as yet Dr Oakenfold, so that means I either gave them the info they needed in the first place ( :} ), or I am outside the age range they are interested in. I suspect the second is the case somehow.

[Paper Planes]

Same here The PM

I think REX did not like the fact that I already held a CPL (just the min hours) and I told them I was doing my ATPL subjects as well as having a IREX credit. Mind you according to the cadet program selection criteria a HSC is very important to REX so know doubt the brainless office girl/guy who was sorting out the applications threw out my application because I did not do the right HSC subjects regardless about the qualifications that count :ugh::ugh:

REX pulling of this pilot training in 8 months is not going to happen with fresh recruits unless they are planning on compromising safety or getting CASA to exempt them from certain training requirements.

[The PM]

Similiar story here Paper Planes: PPL with the NVFR, retractable and CSU bells and whistles, CPL theory pass (albeit around 8 years ago) and 180 odd hours when a family situation forced me to put flying on hold for a few years.That was more than a few years ago now sadly!
I'm guessing we aren't the only ones! Still, would be nice to at least get an email saying "Thanks for your interest, do not meet our profile, etc etc"!

[Jeps]

I have a feeling you and me PM, will have the same outcome from this cadet ship for completely different reasons and probably due to the stupidity of management...We will wait and see though:)

[Paper Planes]

I will be suprised if REX's cadet program is going to solve their pilot problems. They have been very quiet about how these cadets are going to progress to command with ATPL subjects not part of the training. The Qantas Cadet programs is looking much more appealing the more I hear about REX's questionable practices.

[kristy7781]

I didn't get anything back either - only have about 24hrs flying experience up my sleeve - but do have an honours degree in Aviation... maybe those that were over qualified were over looked, giving preference to newby HSC students....:confused: sigh.

The whole thing does seem a bit dodgy in some ways - it would be nice if they put out some decent information about it all, and let people know about their applications progress, instead of leaving them wondering.

A taste of things to come with the cadetship?

[wrongwayaround]

ahhh.... 24 hours of flying..

alot of "If I were you............." stories... spring to mind...

With over 20 years experience in this industry.. Kristy, I can strongly caution you against the REX cadetship. PM me for any more advice. WWA

[chief wiggum]

If I had an honours degree in aviation, and was SERIOUSLY thinking about joining the Rex cadet thingy, then I would be tempted to hand back the degree! you obviously didn't learn much

[Cap'n Arrr]

mr.tos, im fairly certain qantas only use the HSC results as an initial culling, to reduce number of applicants to a smaller number, then stage 1 assessment is another culling stage etc, you simply have to score higher than most others at each stage (including the initial application) to get through to the next.

[am765]

I know someone who was rung up to attend an interview and testing. Not sure how it went. About mid-oct.

The rex cadetship however seems strange to me. The absence of any real information about the program just doesn't seem right. How many icus hours could you expect to get in five years? I'm certainly not an expert but i don't think co-pilot hours will get you the min requirements for any decent airline - you need command hours. Can, or will, rex get you min command-hours in five years to apply to airlines?

Qantas scheme just seems a lot more credible - tells you in plain english what it entails. And if you don't get to stage 2 you'll still have a cpl, mecir, atpl sub'j, etc.

No matter what however it'll cost you at least $80k and a couple years making little money before you will be in any decent airline. the cadetships may make it easier in a planning sense (and initial $$$ for rex) to get their but GA certainly isn't a bad option - i'm sure it would be a better experience than flying rpt for your entire career.

It however does certainly come down to money. I'm lucky and have a loan from my parents which makes me very privileged to be able to pay to get my license. However the only other option has typically been the military, rex does offer people, who otherwise couldn't afford it, the opportunity to fly - which is a good thing.

You would think however that the government would allow a cpl course to be included on HECS - they pump out enough money for BA's which, by themselves, provides the country with no real job-oriented work (apart from the obvious 'do you want fries with that?'). Anyway just my grumblings.

[ABX]

REX Cadetship FAQ, from their website, read this one carefully (http://www.rex.com.au/cadetpilot/cadet_faq.pdf).

There are several things that bother me about this:

5) Being stuffed in a 'bungalow' with 7 other cadets and sharing a room.

6) "... the cadets are expected to spend the nights in self study and research. The cadets are not allowed to leave the academy during the week" I read that to mean that I can't go out to the shops or to have a beer after hours! Obviously not geared toward married people or people over 16 years of age!

10, 11 & 12) Stiff loan and scholarship conditions that seem designed to trap you. 10% compound interest rate - calculated from the start of the loan and on the full amount! Over 7 years that doubles the amount owing!

13) $2 000 penalty for failing probationary period.

17) Advertising that "A Rex Captain with 5-6 years flying experience usually is suitable for a First Officer position in a large commercial jet aircraft." - are they encouraging 'poaching'?

Lots to think about there people, makes me very suspicious.:mad:

[ABX]

Below is the contents of the above link.

REX CADET SCHEME – FAQs

1. Where will the training be conducted?
The training will be conducted at Mangalore Airport in Victoria, approximately 90 minutes drive from the Melbourne CBD and 70 minutes drive from Tullamarine Airport. It is a large airport with excellent facilities and provides the opportunity to conduct training in an
environment without air traffic congestion or airspace restrictions. It also boasts ideal weather for ab initio training.

2. Who will be doing the training?
The training will be carried out by a new flying Academy especially formed for the purpose called the Civil Aviation Training Academy (CATA). This school will be assisted in
the early stages by Moorabbin Flying Services. The syllabus will be tailored for airline procedures and will feature as far as possible Rex Standard Operating Procedures.

3. What type of aircraft will be used?
Brand new 4 seat Piper Warrior III aircraft will be acquired for the new training school. These will be state of the art and fitted with EFIS cockpits. Multi Engine training will be
carried out in Piper Seminole aircraft which will also be fitted with EFIS cockpits.

4. How long will the training take?
The training is scheduled to take 32 weeks but may vary with individual students.

5. Is accommodation available?
The course is designed as a live-in course and full food and board is provided as part of the course fee. Cadets will be housed in brand new 8 person bungalows with 2 cadets per room. Full kitchen facilities are provided for self catering as well as a canteen for lunch and evening meals.

6. What is the training regime like at the Academy?
The training is expected to be very intensive and rigorous. In addition to a full day of lectures and flying, the cadets are expected to spend the nights in self study and
research. The cadets are not allowed to leave the Academy during the week. Some weekends may also be used for additional lectures or participation in scheduled
flights on the jump seat.

7. What qualifications will be attained?
At the completion of training each cadet will qualify for an Australian Commercial Pilots Licence, Multi Engine Rating and a Command Instrument Rating. ATPL subjects are not
included as part of the cadetship, however a course will be available at the Academy for students that wish to make their own arrangements for these subjects. As part of the
training each cadet will receive a minimum of 142 hours single engine time, 20 hours multi engine time and 21 hours simulator time. There will also be opportunities to be in the jump seat of scheduled Rex flights.

8. What medical standard is required?
A Class 1 medical certificate issued by CASA is all that is required. There are no additional company requirements.

9. What is the cost?
The course fee is $80,000. This is all inclusive of CASA charges, exam fees, ground course fees, text books, class 1 medical, ASIC, flight and simulator training as well as food and board.

10. How does the cadet scheme work with regard to financial assistance?
The cadet scheme comprises 2 parts. The first part is a loan for 50% of the full course fees with interest payable. All cadets will qualify for the loan and those who take advantage of the loan are required to be committed to Rex for at least 5 years of employment. i.e.: They must not resign from Rex before completing the 5 years. The loan is repayable over 7 years and repayment commences with initial employment in the Rex Group. Repayments will be done by way of salary deduction and will be on a
sliding scale geared to salary so that the monthly repayment represents an affordable proportion of the estimated pilot’s salary as he/she progresses in Rex.
The second part of the scheme is a scholarship which will cover between 50% and 100% of the remaining course fees not covered by the loan. The granting of scholarships will be at the discretion of the Rex Board but will normally be determined after the course probationary period of the first 5 weeks. The actual amount granted will depend on the performance during the probationary period. However the Board may consider granting the scholarship at the beginning of training to exceptional cadets who would not be able to embark on the training without the certainty of the scholarship. About half of the cadets are expected to receive a scholarship.
Our heart is in the country
The scholarship will be in the form of a loan which will be forgiven if the cadet stays 6 years with Rex. i.e.: They must not resign from Rex before completing the 6 years. No repayment for the scholarship amounts will be required during the period of employment with Rex. Those cadets that do not qualify for a full scholarship loan will need to source their own funding for the balance of the course fee.

11. What happens to the loan if a cadet resigns before the 5 years commitment period is completed? What happens if he/she resigns after 5 years but before the loan is fully
repaid?
If resigning within the 5 years, the outstanding Principal plus interest will be due and payable immediately. The interest is calculated at 10% on a monthly rest basis.
If a cadet resigns after the 5 year commitment period but before the 7 year repayment period then the loan is recalculated as if the interest rate were 5% from the start of the loan and the cadet only has to pay the new outstanding amount. This amount will be due and payable immediately upon leaving Rex.

12. What happens if a cadet resigns before the 6 year qualifying period of the scholarship grant?

If a scholarship cadet leaves prior to the 6 year qualifying period the scholarship loan becomes due and payable upon resignation at a compounded interest rate of 10% from the date of first employment with Rex. This will be in addition to any loan repayment specified in Question 11.

13. What happens if the cadet fails the probationary period?

Every cadet is required to post a $2,000 bond upon being selected for the training. If he/she fails the probationary period, the bond will be forfeited. Otherwise the bond will
be applied towards payment of the part of the course fees at his charge unless he/she is on the full loan and full scholarship in which case the $2,000 will be refunded upon successful completion of the course.

14. Will I have a job with Rex upon completion of the training?
Each cadet automatically qualifies for a place in the Rex Group upon successful completion of the training. Commencement of employment with the Rex Group will be subject to ground course availability but is not expected to be more than 3 months from date of
graduation.
Our heart is in the country
15. What will a cadet be paid once he or she enters Rex employment?
Pay and conditions are in accordance with the relevant award conditions within the Rex Group. In the case of Rex itself, these are laid out in the Regional Express Pilots Agreement 2005. Full details can be obtained on www.airc.gov.au (http://www.airc.gov.au).

16. Where will I be based upon completion of training?
The Rex Group has pilot bases in all states except West Australia and NT. As a guide Rex itself has bases in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Brisbane, Wagga, Albury, Lismore, Dubbo and Orange. Most pilots are based in the 3 main Rex capital city hubs. Consideration is given as far as possible to personal preferences when allocating bases.

17. What career progression can I expect in Rex?
Cadets will be deployed within the Rex Group of airlines which comprise Rex, Pelair and Air Link to provide the cadets with a wide range of experience. Details of the Rex Group of airlines are available on www.rex.com.au (http://www.rex.com.au), www.pelair.com.au (http://www.pelair.com.au) and www.airlinkairlines.com.au (http://www.airlinkairlines.com.au). However, wherever the cadets are deployed they will
maintain their seniority. Career progression depends very much on the performance of the individual and on the opportunities within the company. Based on current conditions, good cadets can reasonably expect to attain their command between the thrid and fourth year of being a First Officer. A Rex Captain with 5-6 years flying experience usually is suitable for a First Officer position in a large commercial jet aircraft.

_______

Copied from http://www.rex.com.au/cadetpilot/cadet_faq.pdf on 12/11/2007

[morno]

What is "camand"???

Is that a way to think you're going to get a "Command" but very slyly cover their arses in that they "never said command", :hmm:.

morno

[pilotdude09]

Glad that they finally put some more info out there.

Id hate to share the same room with someone (unless a hot blonde :ooh:) for 32 weeks :eek: bugger that!

But doesnt sound too bad and good to see you are pretty much guarnteed a job unless you utterly fark up! or drop out.

Wonder what happens to those who drop out and what happens re their licences etc.

Also, for those of us that applied using the expression of interest email do we need to now use the 'Register' form and reapply?

Also have people already been called up etc?

Cheers

[Lodown]

Pilotdude, ask the hot blonde what she'd think of sharing the room with you.:O

[wesky]

hahaha good call!

Pilotdude, I had submitted both online form and email....

Steve

[The Kavorka]

Surely no kid with half a brain would sign up to this.....

Where are the instructors to train these kids coming from??...they haven't even started the flying school yet..

With qantas having their own growing cadet scheme I urge any wannabe considering this look at the Qantas one first!!

7 years at rex is 6 years too long!!

[cx587]

Anyone being invited to the first batch? Just want to say a hello to those who will be going on the 10th Dec. batch because we have to arrange our own transport to MEL.

[Aureus]

I wonder what the background of these cadets are, namely their age range.

[pilotdude09]

Pilotdude, ask the hot blonde what she'd think of sharing the room with you

hahahaha well thats a different story......:hmm:

Pilotdude, I had submitted both online form and email....

Cool, just submitted the online one as well.

6-7 years is a very long time in Aviation but i guess if its what you want to do you may be happy.

But when you look at the other side of the coin, it may be cheaper and better for you to go through somewhere like West Aussie Aviation College do your CPL then go north do your time and then go join REX, Skippers etc etc do your time then hit the Jets. You would be on jets well before 7 years!

Just on the side they dont ring from Adelaide do they? had a couple missed calls from an (08) 7xxxxxxx number i would assume it wasnt them.
:ok:

[bushy]

I think that is what they are trying to avoid, and if they have a choice they probably would not select "mobile" pilots.
That seems to be what is happening now.

[Like This - Do That]

I'm still shaking me noggin' in disbelief about not being able to "leave the academy during the week".

[UrlocalAZn]

Pilotdude, ask the hot blonde what she'd think of sharing the room with you.:O


Who said it had to be a girl?:hmm::E

[The Original Jetpipe]

I found out that i have been not called for inteview due to having.............................................to many hours!!!!!!!!!!!! :ugh:

TOJP

[TeleMaPhone]

How many hours is "too many?"

[Cap'n Arrr]

How many hours is "too many?"

Enough that you could afford to pay out the loan and leave whenever you wanted to:E

[flyer07]

I think that too many people are casting aspersions without full consideration or understanding of the facts. Until you have sat down with members of REX, voiced your concerns and received their response (face to face) you are ill informed.
I don't believe most people understand what REX currently has in place and/or the myriad of variations and options they are still considering, with a view to benefit the individuals selected for the program.
Like anything, it is not perfect, granted. However, at some point pilots with airline aspirations have to bite the bullet and invest time and money into their own future. Like most worthwhile causes or ambition, sacrifice from the individual is required; an airline career will not be handed to you on a silver platter.
What REX offers is a great deal more than many other airlines, and is a step in the right direction. It is an opportunity for young pilots that deserves more than just the flack it continues to cop.

[Gearupandorrf]

What REX offers is a great deal more than many other airlines, and is a step in the right direction. It is an opportunity for young pilots that deserves more than just the flack it continues to cop.

Flyer07 you sound like you're closer to the source than most of us.

Apart from the obvious concept that has been alluded to many times (that of looking after the existing, experienced crews to attempt to make them want to stay)- why would REX only be looking at offering places to young Pilots (as per your post)?

The people running this show obviously don't realise the value of guys like myself- in the 30+ age group. Blind freddy should be able to see that this demographic is more likely than not to give a longer return of service than those who are younger.

Maybe- just maybe- REX are only interested in the younger ones because they are generally going to be more financially dependent on their jobs than older guys with some money in the Bank? "Treat 'em mean keep em' keen".

Another odd aspect is placing such a huge emphasis on VCE/ HSC results. Don't they realise that the brighter students are going to be more appealing to Qantas Group Airlines when they are desperately short of experienced crew (which given the recent order for narrowbodies will most likely happen)?

I find it a bit of a joke. I'm not saying that I'm the perfect candidate, but with 250hrs TT, multi engine endorsement, UK CPL/ IR (easily converted to an Oz CPL/ IR) and ATPL subjects done and dusted, I would have thought that I'd at least be considered after having submitted their application form? Seems they're not interested, because I don't have fantastic VCE results, nor am I "young".

Oh well.....:ugh:

[morno]

flyer07,
I don't think you realise how much of a scam this scheme is. For $80,000 you get a job in a SAAB for 6-7 years unless you're willing to pay out a loan up front!

Why not get yourself an $80,000 loan (not that you need anywhere near that amount to do your CPL) and have the freedom to go where ever you want! And also the freedom to get a job that pays a lot more than Rex will ever pay you, well inside of those 6-7 years.

All I can say is anyone who takes this option up, deserves everything they get when they find they're stuck there!

morno

[ABX]

flyer07 = Rex PR dept., (Or Tintin reincarnated...) don't feed the troll.

[Launchpad McQuack]

freedom to get a job that pays a lot more than Rex will ever pay you, well inside of those 6-7 years


anyone who takes this option up, deserves everything they get when they find they're stuck there!


morno has hit the mark.

I'd suggest applicants take some time to really go through this and think about it...by the time 2 years has passed, you'll be sick of it and ready to move on. Now imagine realising that you're stuck for another 5 years, whilst those around you move on to bigger and better (much better) gigs.

Think hard about this one lads, and read what all the current/ex REX boys are saying before committing to this nonsense.

LP

[mavrik1]

true that!

[puma4319]

For these cadets, or anyone for that matter, what are the min requirments to be able to be a captain on a Saab or Metro? Do they differ with companies or is there a rule for everyone? I thought there would be something in the CAO's or CAR's but then again Qantas cadets can move onto Captain without any multi-command.

Will this just lock them in as FO's as never be able to move on?

I think i read somewhere on one of these Rex threads it was 250 command, but I was just wondering if anyone could fill us in...
Thanks in advance :ok:

["Littlebird"]

Right on the mark Gearupandorrf...totally agree with your comments regarding "young pilots".

I know of at least 5 guys in their mid 30's with CPL, MECIR with around 400 hrs TT (including military time), currently working in various industries bar aviation. Four of the five are married with a mortgage, and could not afford to remain in the industry.These guy's would be more than happy to retire doing a regional airline gig. The airlines need to wake up and take advantage of this age group before the overseas airlines do. Only a matter of time I assure you!

I too once recently came under this banner, and decided to join the military. Never looked back since! :ok:

[UrlocalAZn]

Hmm seems a bit weird that mil guys only having 400 TT. I would expect them to be in the thousands.....

[Bendo]

Ur Local,

You're obviously not a Mil pilot then?

The transport guys are doing heaps of hours, I believe, but the fast jet guys and maritime patrol guys barely do enough to remain current. My best man has 10 years in maritime patrol and has fewer hours than I had after 5 years GA. :sad:

[Captahab]

Military time does not count for much nowadays.

The Japanese airlines via Parc recruiting even specify that in their ads now.

Position:
2 Crew Turbo Prop Captains For Dash 8-Q400

Experience/ Skills:
ATPL Licence

Details:
W A N T E D : 2 CREW TURBO-PROP CAPTAINS TO FLY DASH 8-Q400

Parc Aviation on behalf of our client Air Nippon Network (A-net) are recruiting Rated and Non Rated Captains to be trained and type rated on to the Dash 8-Q400. This is a three year assignment commencing March 2007. Selection will commence November 2007. Excellent Terms and Conditions for this assignment apply.

Please be advise we are not recruiting First Officers for this phase of screening.

Should you wish to apply you must satisfy the following minimum requirements:

- Totals flight time in excess of 3000 hours (including 1500hrs of PIC time. ½ (one half) of co-pilot time is calculated as PIC time) PLUS 500 PIC hours on 2 man commercial turboprop aircraft.

- No helicopter time, no military time to be included in total hours

- Valid Class 1 Medical

- Valid ICAO ATPL

- Licence must display current ‘2 man turboprop type rating’.

Please quote FC1196 on all correspondence

Location:
Japan
Type (perm/con):
Contract

Duration:
3 1/2 Year Contract (Renewable)

Start Date:
March 2008

Contact:
Jacquei Breslin
Ph: +353-1-8161747
Fax: +353-1-8161711
Email: [email protected]

["Littlebird"]

UrlocalAZn,
Weird? Not at all. Infact, I've averaged 300hrs per year on helo. By the way, who said the boys were still in the military? Joined up to fly with CPL in tow, things didn't work out on Pilot's course, and that was that.

Remember, it's quality not quantity.;)

[WannaBeBiggles]

Sorry to defer from the subject, but why wouldn't military time count??? Training is usually much more intense and more emphasis on stick and rudder as well as flying more complex types.

Could this maybe be just the asian airlines? As I know Korean and JAL had some cowboy pilots scare the :mad: out of passengers..

[bushy]

The military teach things other than flying, which are necessary for military life, and much of it is not compatible with civilian life.

[anon121]

Hey guys,
First ever blog, thought id throw my two bobs in about the rex cadetship.

I applied by filling out the application form about a month ago and got called up on Wednesday asking if i could come in for a interview in the next day or two.(It must be noted i never sent my HSC results in, only ever filled out their form)

Down I went, with a negative view of their cadetship (attitude formed from this site and other student pilots) but thinking the testing/interview would be a good experiance for other airlines/jobs etc.

Im 20, got gfpt and less then 30 hours, one cpl subject, studying full time, expect to complete cpl/atpl/irex and multi in the next year. i got the impression i was the type of demographic they are after.
(in 2005 i recieved UAI of 79, HR chick thought that was good, so that tells you what type of brains they are after)

I left believing what they are offering isnt as bad as some people without the full knowledge are making it out to be. I was interviewed for more then an hour by the senior pilot and a senior HR chick.

The 80k is a one off cost, includes everything such as lodgeing, food, casa and medical fees, text books and documents. Includes cpl and irex on brand new full glass cockpit warrior3s, and a multi. After the 32 odd weeks, right hand seat in a aircraft in the rex GROUP, if you want to know their wages look up the REX pilot agreement on google. Im currently studying full time and expect to pay around 65k including atpl- i believe the other 15grand isnt a major rip off (considering the average outlay is around 2K before a student start flying - medicals, license, headset, books/documents, plus ongoing living and eating and travel costs, and then start looking for work...)Also, cadets with some of the above (like myself) wont have to pay the full 80k.

The training is "acadamy style" similar to boarding school/military. The training will be a crash course, without much opportunity to kick back, which is logical, and you will be trained the way they want you to be, which also makes sense.

a few questions i asked is how do rex promote FO to Captains, and was told about the seniority system, and how currently it takes about "12 to 18"months to be offered captain. Im assuming those pilots had enough before the joined to make it to the 2000 hours in that time... Can anyone in the know vouch for that time frame?

Also not really mentioned is that Rex will be offering 20k scholarships (to 10 out of 20 cadets). the only catch is this will be repaid if leaving the company before serving 5 or 6 years, cant remember which.

And ATPL isnt being offered at the moment as its not a priority, however will be offered later.

This would be an awesome opportunity if a student had a lazy 80k lying around as it would be a quick training period and then gauranteed hours in twins. For me personally, if i was offered the cadetship(and after considering it VERY carefully), i may not be able to afford it as im paying for my training at the moment but will have to borrow, beg and perhaps steal to complete it all.

Something else i found out from one of their prospectus lying around their offices was that the rex group made a profit of 25 mil last year, up a lazy 54%... so maybe there is room to be paying pilots more????

Anyways, im sure ive left lots of stuff out, but will be interested to hear what you guys all think.

thanks

[apache]

I really hope that your phrase crash course is NOT accurate.

[cx587]

anon121:
The 20k scholarships will be offered to ALL 20 cadets accepted for the 1st batch.

[KRUSTY 34]

anon121.

The 8th paragraph in your post goes to the heart of the problem.

Flying training has always been expensive. Hideously expensive for that matter. Relatively speaking, it no worse today than it has always been. Why then is the industry in this situation, and why does an operator like REX need to go down this path?

What REX has offered is not unreasonable except for one undeniable fact. You will be shackled to them for a long period of time on what is essentially less than street sweepers wages, (certainly no offence to those hard working people as I used to do it myself!), with very dubious prospect of advancement within REX itself. The minimum qualification for command at REX is...

Class 1 ATPL
500 hours multi-engine command under the IFR of which 150 may be ICUSThese are the REGs and any changes to these are for CASA to make. I can assure you that although these requirements may be different under the proposed MPL course, it is still some time off, and is not what is being proposed here.

The mention of the REX seniority system is a furfi'. It is part of the industrial agreement and all REX pilots are covered by it. To even bring it up suggests to me that it may have been used to deflect attention. The reality is that at the moment commands at REX are running to less than 12 months! With the company losing captains virtually by the week, this short timeframe will continue into the future. As a graduated Cadet you will not be entitled to command untill you have satified the above legal requirements.

As a result, you will be bypassed.

The hours in your logbook whilst serving as a Saab F/O will not move you any closer to the legal requirement.

The major airlines also require at least a Class 1 ATPL and the minimum command time, nominally 500 hours for a first officers position. Not surprising as they are not interested in candidates that cannot be upgrade when the time comes.

The problem for REX and all it's employees is, what happens when the seniority list moves down to the next candidate, and they do not meet the legal min requirement for command? This will undoubtably leed to further contraction of the business. It will come to point that the viability of REX itself will come into question. Aother consideration before parting with large sums of cash!

the REX cadetship will, provided you pass the process, give you a garenteed path into the industry. But at what cost? You owe it to yourselves to ask the question. Where will this put me in the future?

[bushy]

Does this system put them in a position where they are compelled to take direct entry captains?
Is it the start of the erosion of the seniority system?

[Hugh Jarse]

Not yet, Bushy. We have just put an EBA through which retains seniority. I suspect that if the company wants to put that one through next time it would require a huge trade-off on its behalf. Hence the reason it never popped up on the table this time.

In fact, I think that no proposed trade-off would ever get up in my company. Sacrosanct springs to mind, regardless of IR laws.

[SIUYA]

bushy.............

Good question! Buggered if I know.

But, if you carefully 'digest' KRUSTY's last post, then I reckon the answer's got to be YES to DECs (provided that you're prepared to take all the supposed sh1t that the REX C&T system throws at its crews with respect to a simple turboprop aircraft). :ugh:

Particularly if you've got an ATPL, you're >60, you're looking for a nice little retirement job, you've got command time on high capacity aircraft (turboprop and/or jet), and you can put up with the crap.

Personally, I couldn't be bothered. :bored:

EDIT: Hugh...............we 'crossed' each other with our posts!

With (now) the benefit of hindsight having read your post re the EBA, I retract my statement re the 'YES' relating to DECs. :)

[KRUSTY 34]

The option of direct entry captains has always been available during periods of exceptional circumstances. These can range from the introduction of a new type, to the almost farsical situation that REX finds itself in today.

Under the current industrial agreement it would require the permission of the majority of the pilot group. Faced with the real threat of the business collapsing, the negotiations for such a move would be welcomed by the pilots.

Please note the term negotiation, because that is what it would be. The company will have no currency to try and impose any sort of "solution" without input from the wider pilot body.

Some issues will very quickly arise.

Type rated and experienced captains would be a pre-requesite
The remuneration package required to attract these rare birds will be somewhat higher than what current serving captains are being paid!
The remuneration package for DEC's will have to be incorporated into the existing package for current pilots. The notion of paying the higher rate to only the DEC's will fail in the IRC as these pilots are no more qualified, and perhaps less so, than existing current REX captains.So you see bushy, the seniority system is quite safe, although it can be relaxed in times of crisis. Notwithstanding that, once a cadet is bypassed it is quite acceptable to move onto the next "employed" pilot on the list that can be upgraded.

Wait a minute? Why didn't REX just pay their existing pilots more to begin with? The result would have been the same, and the company would not be facing all this heartache!

[The Original Jetpipe]

Hi,

Just wondering if any "Pprunes" have taken up the REX cadetship? I know there plans where to start on the 10th December. Best of luck for those that decided to take it!!

TOJP.

[Ultralights]

i was thinking about it, had the paperwork in front of me, but the $80K! nope. cant do it.

[ABX]

Exactly the same with me Ultralights, wouldn't do it.

[ABX]

No Doc, I sent in the E.O.I. then from that point on couldn't convince myself to commit to it, so I never pursued my application further.

I'm guessing (?) TOJ has applied, but I did not.

Cheers,

[anon121]

I have been offered a spo on the 10th dec course, waiting on the legal fineprint....

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

What, $80k!!! :yuk:

A little self-respect please.

[anon121]

80k, minus the 20k scholarship for the first 20, get a loan for 5% for 40k, which leaves me with a bill of 20k. To me, thats a lot more affordable then $60 - 70 to go through the GA route, and gauranteed FO spot come august september next year is pretty good!

So i may have to spend the next 5 to 7 years at REX. dont laugh, but im young, and i know where ill be sending my resumes when im 27 with 3000+ hours on turboprobs and hopefully 1000+ command.

whats five years in a (hopefully) 30+ year career? to me it beats doing a 4-5 year uni degree or apprenticeship, which is how im viewing it.

And if i get a job on a jet, get a loan, leave and pay off rex, and triple my salary.

Still waiting for the fineprint before signing though!

[anon121]

oops, that should have been get a loan for $40k at 5%...

[tcross]

had a brief look but get so much more out of sharp, 1 year training, then 10 months internship at 40k per year - a 10k sacrifice of pay, + turbo endorsments and guaranteed time of 300hr in the metro

[anon121]

Hi all,
Im new to the industry, and have been accepted into the REX cadetship, but have already heard a lot of negative talk about REX, in particular TandCs and the way management treat pilots etc. This seems to have been an ongoing problem for a number of years.

Can anyone that currently works for or has very recently left REX share what it is like?? Is it as bad as some make out, or just like most jobs where the good days are mixed in with a few rough ones??

Any info from the horses mouth would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[radaz]

Its simple

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RayMaswju1A


Sadly the goose that does the induction course on your first day will tell you that after 2 years you will be ready for the majors, "but for 2 years we have you by the balls."
It will be sad to hear on your first day...ignore it.
Lotta good people there
:sad:

[wethereyet]

Anon, it's not a bad job really. The SAAB is a great bit of equipment. But yes, the T&C's are not acceptable for proffesionals.

The main problem is the salary against the amount of work which you can do and are expected to do under the EBA - max hours with no real overtime incentive. To support a family on this money and pay off a house is just not a reality... so these days almost everyone will move on within 2 years of service.

As I understand it under the cadetship (correct me if I am wrong), REX wants YOU to find 40K of your own... then they back a loan of an additional 40K (TOTAL 80K), which you pay back whether you stay or leave? And if you leave before the 2 years your up for another 15K endorsement cost.

I would think in todays climate you could spend the money better - bypass REX and end up in a jet job on twice the money. :)

[tail wheel]

"...the horses mouth..."

Tried Randwick?

Why not obtain a copy of the REX pilot EBA and make your own decision? :confused:

[Howard Hughes]

Not much action at Randwick these days and Flemington is over...;)

[eFIFO]

THE AGREEMENT
See p.38. 39, etc…

http://www.airc.gov.au/awards/tracee/agreements/pdf/AG843610.pdf (http://www.airc.gov.au/awards/tracee/agreements/pdf/AG843610.pdf)

[eFIFO]

The way I undertsand the Cadetship is you have to pay the first $40K but Rex organises a deferred payment schedule with repayments increasing as your base increases. For that you have to give them 5yrs or pay it back immediately at market rates.

A scholarship for the next $40K means you have to give them a 6th year or pay it back in full with interest. If you don't get the scholarship awarded, you have to find the 2nd $40K yourself.

See http://www.rex.com.au/cadetpilot/Default.aspx

[boardpig]

..as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), after "graduation" rather than be given the keys to a shiny new SAAB, they cart you off to one of their subsid companies for a period of "what does that button do in real life". During this time you learn that you could have paid for CPL and ME/IR yourself and gotten a job there anyways, with real prespects of moving up in 2 years to a decent paying position rather than being shackled to Rex for a further 6. (all with 80k of debt if you try and tunnel out).
My advice, take the 40k you already have and get your CPL and ME/IR. Then apply to places "up norf" to do the same job they will place you in anyways. Then after 2 years or so, call up one of the more "major" players and sell your soul that way. You'll be free to choose, and have saved yourself 3 or more years at dismal pay.

[boardpig]

..actually I think I might be getting mixed up with the QF cadet program...
:mad:

[crank1000]

Hi all,

As the titile implies, anyone outside NSW get called or interviewed? Know a couple of guys in Sydney who got calls but out of the 3 or 4 guys I know in Vic, none of us got a sniff.

Cheers

[eFIFO]

crank1000

Sorry, don't follow your point. Why should it matter which state you're from?
The cadetship is in VIC
Are you saying that Rex only have work available out of Sydney?

[anon121]

no one from outside NSW was interviewd for the first batch because the chief pilot and HR dept did not have time to get around to the interviews.
was told that non NSW applicants will be called for interviews in the next batches....

[43Inches]

Struggling to see how sharps cadet scheme is better than rex at $98k (published on website) and there is no living expense included for the training period.

[The Kavorka]

Anon,

You must be pretty good if your going to be the RHS of the saab by next sep/oct........maybe you should work on sep/oct 09...a little more probable!!

[THE ORACLE]

Anon 121,
If you are one of the new REX cadets you now have a very tall mountain to climb with undertaking your ab initio training through to a commercial licence, before you arrive at the foot of the next tall mountain where you get to apply the training in a commercial environment in order to actually get into this industry. If I were you I would start to focus entirely on the chosen task at hand and avoid completely other distractions such as the 'rumour milliing' here on PPRUNE!

[Ultralights]

whats the total cost? after interest? and all other ancillaries?

then to only earn $40k? for how many years?

the Uni option is certainly the more attractive, and financially rewarding...

dont forget Heks pays for most if not all of Uni.

[ABX]

Ultra, I looked into it just under 12 months ago and HECS only covered the university fees for the course - $18K over three years - not the flying component.

Has this changed?

[43Inches]

HECS is just a loan also, which has to be repaid once your salary reaches a certain level.

[ABX]

43":ok:,


HECS is just a loan also, which has to be repaid once your salary reaches a certain level.


True, although the federal government won't make you stay in the one job for 6 years to pay it back!

[Defenestrator]

If I were you I would start to focus entirely on the chosen task at hand and avoid completely other distractions such as the 'rumour milliing' here on PPRUNE!

And the floggins will continue until morale improves......

[thinking pilot]

Go for it, I did, and I am repin the benefits.

I decided to get back into aviation after a six year gap, have been offered a number of positions with many Legacy carriers.

Lowest wages offered $123,000. I can imagine REX would offer much more than this.

Please email me for further details.

The thinking mans pilot always ready to help.:D

PS REX would rank near the top for Terms and Conditions.:ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

thinking pilot, you naughty boy, (or girl?).

anon121, He's either winding you up, or is writing his post from Mars.

The ORACLE is 100% right. Some people who have been in this game for more years that you have probably been alive may have lost touch with just how multi-faceted the profession is. There are a many steps to go through before you sit in the right seat of the SAAB. In fact be prepared for a career of hoop jumping and scrutiny.

These mountains as the ORACLE refers to them, need to be tackeld sucessfully, one step at a time.

Best of luck,

KRUSTY

[cwc]

just to clear the "only NSW" was accepted..... I know of a good friend that lives in brissy and got in with the first batch.

[TeleMaPhone]

I know of at least one Victorian interviewed too.

[tcross]

43 inches, when it comes to my new contract of 94000 for training, -10000 salary sacrifice, and a payment of 39000 p/a a year first year out (during trainee ship) it does help alot, no lock in at all with the company after the first traineeship unless they accept you to continue with them. So 84000 for full training inc frozen. + 39000 - 10000 reclaimed as 8000 through tax so around 37k for the year

[ules]

i was looking into joining rex also but no way its a scam , biggest rip off and u get no command time sure u get to go in a turbo prop and if ur lucky get 3000 hours. but it wont be command hours

ive paid 48,00 for my cpl + instrument rating and atpl theory which im doing at the moment, then im just gonna move onto a small company to gain my hours , all i will need is 2 years roughly and then i can apply for an airline,
virgin have just dropped their entry requirments
to 1000hours total time

i was too realy keen and so commited to joinin rex, but yeah no way, 7 years to live on crap pay and not get any comand time , its gonna be hard to pay rent, pay ur bills eat buy clothes etc, on the sallary they offer for the 7years also u have to pay back your debt !!
another thing is their shares are rappily dropping in price, everyones selling , i got a feeling rex will not make that 7 years,

anyway good luck to you guys, ive already started my diploma course, its fantastic love it so much , but just be wary shop around like i did and get the best deal, there are plenty of pilot jobs out there, and if u really want to work for rex, just apply for dirrect entry do your training elsewhere

[crank1000]

Thats exactly what I meant. My belief is that if there is a big enough pool of people in NSW to pick from, so why would they bother going through the hassle of interviewing people from SA or WA etc?

My reckon they are only running one or two courses a year so all the 2007 and 2008 candidates have probably been selected already so even if they interview people from other states you might be waiting a long time to start. I would say that there are alot of dissapointed people out there because of it. But this is all hypothetical because I have nothing to back it up with.

My post had nothing to do about where they are going to be based.

[ASB]

My son is very interested in this scheme, its difficult to get the training to be a pilot in country area's so having accommodation and meals makes this a very attractive option. At 18 he has 70 hours flying most of which he got through Airforce Cadets.

He has sent his application and resume on line (we never saw the earlier adverts in the paper) so he hopes to hear soon, any suggestions on how he can maximise his chances.

[ules]

country is the best way to get training i rekon, i probably understand you dont have a school nearby.

the school im learning at is about an hours drive, but they have almost 30 -40 students from overseas. they provide a package for all students, which includes acomodation, transport, and bills

i think it was something like $150 a week. they live in a brand new flat, fully furnished, with beds , furniture tv's etc watever u can think off,, fridge microwave, electricity water and gas in included in the price per week, they also are provided with a vehicle, to drive to school and i supose use the cars for everyother day use,
so for the entire year wich the diploma course goes, for for a year acomodation would cost around 7000$ dollars ontop of the 48,000 . and not 80 grand
saving a lot of money
and also u get alot more expirience than the cadet scholarship, u get way more hours , and they are comand time hours, in both single and twin engine, but it depends which package you want to learn.

the instructors are great, well the ones i have had so far anyway, the planes are in good condition , i find that i have atleast 2 - 3 hours a day of flying, theorys are on monday and friday.
so if you have to send your son so far away like to melbourne, u might aswell send him to somewhere where its cheaper and better

this is the school im at ,, check them out give them a call if u have any questions before i did i had heaps and they really helped me out , staff are great there www.hva.com.au (http://www.hva.com.au)

check them out !

[43Inches]

tcross - I am still confused as to how you worked out your figures.

Sharps you pay up front lets say $94k so thats your starting debt. Then you also must cover food and lodging on top of that.

Rex you get a $40k loan and rex spots you the rest as a low interest loan and salary sacrifice. (assuming you don't get the scholarship)

After you complete the course at sharps there is no guarantee of continued employment.

After you complete the rex course you are an employee of the rex group.

If you wish to leave rex earlier than the 5-6 year 'lock in' you just pay back your debts with market rate interest. So you are then paying the total $80k back yourself. Where as sharps you are continually paying market rate interest on your $84k loan.

If you stay the term at rex you will finnish with at most $20k debt and if you got the scholarship plus the governments planned rebate for two years service you may be debt free.

After reading the rex EBA you will also note the FO salary starts at 42K and increases over the first 3 year of service to 49K and with allowances will be over 50K, not great but better than $39K.

The rex program may not be the best offer on the planet but I do think it out does some of the other options. This comparison is based on publicly available meterial. I think there are still many things with both programs you need to clarify by asking questions and reading fine print.

[The PM]

43 inches, one small point.You referred to the "planned government rebate".The coalition lost the election on Saturday.:rolleyes:
Do keep up.

AFAIK, Labor at this point have no equivalent policy.

[nos4r2]

:uhoh: Guys, what IS this REX thing? It just reeks of depression for a pilot. I too applied and got no response which I was pretty disappointed about. Then I read the further details. I have a wife and 2 kids and am 40 with most of my CPL finished, 15 years working for the same company. Give me a job at Rex flying out of Melbourne and I would be happy to work for them for years. I believe I am what Rex needs for a long term employee. But am I gonna work for their crappy sideline for a few years taking my family with me? No chance! And am I gonna reside in a bungalow in Mangalore not allowed to see my family during the week to get the opportunity to work for the salary they offer? Nope! Rex will be joining the T-Rex if they think this is the way to get pilots!
Good luck anyone who takes it up; hope it works out for you.

[ABX]

nos4r2,

Hear, hear!:ok:

I am 38 with my training ahead of me, if TRex offered me a decent job/wage/lifestyle I would stay with them for my remaining career, but to pay $80K to be stuck in a bungalow?

They are dreaming.

[The Original Jetpipe]

Removing all the good/bad points about the Rex Cadetship. Has anybody taken up there offer??? I believe that the start date was the 10th December?

Be good to hear from anyone that accepted the cadetship, as to what qualification/flight experience they have.

Regards

TOJP.

[KRUSTY 34]

Little bird told me yesterday that the start date for the cadet program, 10th December, has been delayed due to a shortage of instructors down in Mangalore!

Anyone else heard anything, care to comment?

[nos4r2]

A big thank you to T-Rex for showing the aviation industry how NOT to treat their biggest asset; pilots of the future. I doubt anyone will follow their lead in any cadet programs to come.
Why is it that not one single post here has been by someone accepted / taking up the T-Rex cadet scheme???

[MBVW]

Leave school, get a job and save for your license. Commence your aviation career debt free with no worries, no locked in contracts etc. Sounds hard but I can assure you it is the best way.

[dreamjob]

Because people who read here "know" what REX is really like??:ugh::=

[nos4r2]

Dreamjob - Maybe people read here what Rex is like to work for because they dont know what Rex is like to work for so they read what people who have worked for Rex think Rex is like to work for. Then they make a decision regarding if they want to work for Rex or not based on what they read, hear and feel for themselves.
Grow up "Dreamjob"

[Ozgrade3]

I've only seen 2 of their instructors, very junior G3's who have quite an attitude.....very unfriendly chaps. They just better understand they share the field with us........and we are the big fish.

[dreamjob]

Sorry, but your post made me laugh. Had to read it about 4 times to understand what you were getting at. :hmm:

Grow up? Naa, I like being young.

Personally, I would rather NOT spend $80k and give up 6 years of my life, ESPECIALLY after reading comments posted here in D&G.

But hey, that's just MY opinion. :ok:

[THE ORACLE]

nos4r2,
don't lose sight of the fact that PPRUNE is as the acronymn describes it...a 'rumour network' and nothing more and nothing less! Anyone making decisions based solely or largely on much of the banter that is contributed here has some serious 'situational awareness' deficiencies!! Don't lose sight of reality chum and PPRUNE is not reality!

[KRUSTY 34]

Ah yes ORACLE,

but many a true word said in jest.

Or mabye jest isn't the correct term, er... well, you know what I mean. Having said that, I receievd a PM by someone in the know that said the original contract for the cadet scheme awarded to MFS has now gone to MFTA due to a lack of instructors! No... surely not? Just shake a tree and 3 more will fall out. Also the aircraft that were touted so brightly in the REX press release aren't even in the country yet!

All unsubstantiated to be sure. But it seems to me this whole situation smacks of desperation rather than a rational process to address a critical situation.

[nos4r2]

Ok so now I see that we are flying in the same direction after all!
I was assuming that Dreamjob was defending Rex and attacking my interpretation of what others have written which I must admit suprised me.
So we are in agreeance; Rex are offering a pretty poor cadetship program...or so the rumours would suggest. I also wont be taking up any offer from them should I recieve one.
In regards to instructors, I would assume they would want the best they could gather. However instructing for them seems like it would be another path to oblivion.
Such a shame really; it could have been a great opportunity for pilots and Rex, but as usual arrogent fools are making the decisions.

Happy flying!

[dreamjob]

Exactly! :ok:

[ABX]

But it seems to me this whole situation smacks of desperation rather than a rational process to address a critical situation.

Krusty mate, you're no clown.:}:ok::E

That is my take on the situation too.

Actually it :mad: breaks my heart because if TRex had approached this like mature adults I possibly could have settled there and had a 20+ year career with them. I could have even applied for the Albury base and been home every night!

Oh well... such is life.:sad:

[KaelO]

Well its now the 10th of December - the date the first course was due to start. So, does anybody know if they managed to find some instructors and are they up and running up there in Mangalore?

[Trailertrash]

Yes, all starts as scheduled tomorrow. 18 Students

[Defenestrator]

........and we are the big fish

Lol......Statements like that don't help your cause Oz. I very much agree with the sentiment however.

D:ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

Trailertrash,

Sounds like you are in the know, but deliberately light on detail!

How are the facilities, aircraft, instructors, etc.....

[Tankengine]

Sounds like a pretty small pond!;)

[Trailertrash]

Not being light on detail for any other reason than that is all I know. Do know 1 of the cadets so should know more later.

[Lasiorhinus]

Rumour has it that the cadets starting today are in for a long time on the ground. Four of the five aircraft brought in to the country for this purpose are reportedly full of corrosion - the fifth has not been inspected yet.

The training organisation apparently does not have an AOC yet, either, which could present problems if true.

[ABX]

Rumour has it that the cadets starting today are in for a long time on the ground. Four of the five aircraft brought in to the country for this purpose are reportedly full of corrosion - the fifth has not been inspected yet.

The training organisation apparently does not have an AOC yet, either, which could present problems if true.


Bloody hell Lasior, I know you said it is a rumour, I would love to know if there is fact in it.

As for the AOC, maybe they can sub the flying out 'til they get it... Perhaps OzG3 might be training the new troops!:}:}:}

Either way, I think the 'management' at TRex will be starting to get embarrassed to talk about where they work at social functions.

[Lasiorhinus]

ABX, me too. THe only thing I know for sure is that I heard the above on the grapevine.

[AirBumps]

Keep us up to date TrailerTrash, I'm very interested to see what happens up there over the next month or so...

[runway16]

I think that you will find that the five Warriors are new aircraft and are only now in the process of being shipped from the USA.

It is ground school for the students until CATA gets an AOC as it is no longer reported as working under someone elses AOC.

There is still a staffing problem as the Friday Decemebr 7 Australian advert for grade 1 & 2 ME with TA and ME IFR instructors indicated.

Altogether it indicates that someone at Rex plucked a date of of the air then said to the minions 'make it work'.

The biggest problem is going to be to get suitably qualified instructors prepared to work at Mangalore and who will stay for a reasonable period of time.

There would appear to be a decreasing pool of potential instructors to take up positions at CATA/Rex.
No doubt the best Grade 1 & 2 instructors have been poached by airlines.

This sage has not finished yet.

[ABX]

This sage has not finished yet.

Judging by the number of Rex threads on PPRuNe, I have no doubt the above statement is highly accurate!:}

[Ozgrade3]

The aircraft are new build airframes said to be delivered to a US operator who then decided not to take them. I would doubt the corrosion rumour is correct but will know when they arrive. I know the bloke who will put them together.
They are doing each lesson on lap top simulator with joystick at their desks, a little dubious about that as I think it will create a group of instrument watchers rather then ones that lookout for traffic and attitude.

17 ME hours only allocated for ME intial and CIR ME. Thats gonna be real tight.

I had a chat with a couple of the cadets today, they seem to be pretty decent young(ish) chaps and quite bright to at first impression. they like the airport and think the accomodation is tops, and no they are not banned from leaving the airport during the week, just no partying mid week, thats fair enough. Yes they have all read the Rex threads on pprune.

Its going to be very tough recruiting grade2's and moreso grade 1's. It seems that no one wants to drive MEL to MNG (200km a day). Living in the local area, Seymour is a bit of a dive but not tooo bad. We have had little reponse to several adds, and we offer progression to turbine time and loads of ME time. Even a couple of junior grade 3's chucked it in in after 2 days, too far to drive the whinged.

But, do (some) of their instructors HAVE to be so rude....a simple hello in the carpark is greeted with a.... bugger off. We have gone out of our way to be welcoming and friendly.

Ah, dont you love Grade3's wih attitude.

[ASB]

Any updates on the Scheme

[KRUSTY 34]

No updates on the scheme I'm afraid. No more jump seat rides for the boys and girls either. Can't have them spreading dissent can we. It seems that Mangalore is locked down tighter than a drum. Bit like the war in Laos. "Blank out the media and guess what?....We can't lose!"

However an interesting sideshow is the latest REX seniority list. The 3 junior instructors at MNG were, as part of the deal, given a place on the REX seniority list. Since they started in November last year they have moved up nearly 50 places! The most junior Command candidate awarded this week is only 17 places more senior. So based on that, these 3 guys should be eligible for command in approx 2-3 months! And they haven't even flown the SAAB!!

But before we get all excited, I have been told that they have to serve 5 years in Shangrila before they can be inducted into the airline. Great deal guys!

[PyroTek]

its alright, after this bunch of cadets finish, the sh*tstorm will start (provided that there are really this many issues).:ok:

[wesky]

I have been in regular contact with one of the Cadets.

According to them, it is all going well. They also seem to believe that they "are on track to for completing on time". As for what progress they have made; all I got was PPL theory completed and flying has started - this was about 4 weeks ago.

In saying all of that though, their were a couple of other comments made that has got me worried :{. It DOES support an earlier post re management visiting the Cadets @ MNG and giving them a talking to - especially in the manner as depicted in the earlier post.

I fully supported this program (as you can see in earlier posts) but now I am a little conerned about it; especially the conduct of the management. All in all, they (Cadets) are motivated and looking forward to what is to come - whatever that may be or whatever they believe in. I do wish them luck and will be very jealous if it works out for them in the long run.

[Muff Hunter]

None with a GFPT yet hear.....

They were supposed to be finished by now were'nt they??

Oh, sorry, that was July 2010...my mistake!!

[KRUSTY 34]

Now let me see?

39 Cadets + more to come
3 junior instructors
1 Senior instructor
4 aircraft
None have as yet passed GFPT!Chr!st Muff! July 2010 seems a tad optimistic.

[ABC LOVER]

It's got to be viewed as outrageous that these very junior (if that what you could call them) pilot's are set to go into the right seats of airliners in any sort of hurry. This must be a big flag to CASA to keep a very close eye on what's going on here.

[KRUSTY 34]

Why?

They do it in Asia and the Sub-Continent all the time, err....

Just kidding! World's best practice, just ask JD from REX. Surely CASA would not be so presumptious as to question that sort of wisdom.

[Muff Hunter]

Still see they are advertising for a CFI/CP and a truck load of instrcutors......

Wonder how things are really going down there??

[wesky]

I hate to say this but I am really worried that there is some trouble up there in the form of cult gagging & bullying...

No doubt we'll hear more soon.

[apache]

see that they are advertising for an operations manager too... has the little witch finally been sacked?

[R555C]

bit harsh!

[apache]

one mans HARSH, is another mans FAIR

[PlankBlender]

Six months or so and not even a GFPT to show for it? I'd be pi:mad:ed..

Any word from the inside, or have they bullied everyone into secrecy?

[wesky]

There is some sort of gagging going on but to what extent, it's hard to say.

[KRUSTY 34]

"ZIP" from the cadets for some time.

I'd say the extent of the gagging is pretty obvious!

[Pilotette]

If its not gagging doing it..im sure its the embarrassment of being sucked into the whole scheme..

cant blame them really though..i almost was..:eek:

[Karze]

Is there any more info on what is happening down there?
Rex have contacted me for the next intake.

[PlankBlender]

Karze, are you seriously considering it?

[nomorecatering]

The rex lads and ladettes are flying their tailplanes off, lots of hrs being done, their warriors are allways in the air and seem to be quite reliable now that a few teething problems with them have been sorted out. Much more so than the junk I;m trying to keep servicable.............hope my boss is reading this.

Both ours and their operations seem to be working well together now, hasnt been any real conflict..even the instructors seem to have mellowed out and are starting to be allright blokes.....just remember to join on crosswind when the circuit is busy. Nada straight in approaches.

Oh, if anyone is doing a nav on weekdays and feels a bit peckish, drop in to YMNG. They have opened the canteen to the public and hot food can me bought. They do a pretty decent hamburgerfor about 5 bucks.

Dont do your engine runups on the apron, the surface is deteriorating badly and you will pick up enough stones to file your props down to toothpicks. Do them on the taxiway.

Some new parking arangements on the apron too, there are now tiedowns in the middle of the apron with a taxilane going counter clockwise around. think its about 18m wide (dont quite me though). So stay on the yellow line and watch your wingtips.

Jets should enter the apron off the taxiways fom 05/23.

Cheers all

[Aussie_Aviator]

What would you expect ? Of course REX Management are going to bully and intimdate their cadets. It's easy to do when they're all 'kids' and you're dangling a carrot in one hand & a stick in the other !!

Seems this might be one of the reasons why REX is recruiting "kids" for their cadetships and not older applicants (above 32). Shame on you Mr. REX. It's much harder to bully an older person who has been around the traps - isn't it ? :cool:

Good luck to the "kids" already there ... I guess this is an introduction into the 'real World' for them and how management (in any organisation) conducts their business.

Not my cuppa tea ... but I hope they all pass and are trained to high standards. I also assume these cadets are aware that not all of them will transition directly onto SAAB 340B's ? :E

It's all fun and games until there's an oil crisis !

[ASB]

Its interesting, my son has been trying to get through the RAAF hoops for nearly two years now, through to the Pilots selection section now, he would love to do the REX thing because it provides him with a base and residential option.

Its difficult for a young person to crack it into flying so I am not supprised there is so much interest in REX.

Me I just fly with them a lot, good airline.

[apache]

What would you expect ? Of course REX Management are going to bully and intimdate their cadets

why should the cadets be treated any different to the rest of the employees ?

[KRUSTY 34]

Radar..,

By "robots", do you mean Cadets? And by "arrive", do you mean induction into the airline?

[KRUSTY 34]

ASB,

It's always been difficult, and expensive, to break into this game. The determination required to suceed sometimes verged on the fanatical! Is it any wonder now, with the diminishing returns at the endgame, that a fraction of young Aussies compared to the past are learning to fly.

Ironically with the current state of the industry there has never been a better time to have a go. But you still have to appreciate the risks. You still have to be prepared to see it through. And you still have to be determined. Very Determined!

I sincerely wish your son all the best, but please make sure that both of you are fully aware of what you are getting into.

[KRUSTY 34]

Radar..,

Phew!! I thought for a moment they had finally found a way to replace us all! (much as they would like). As far as the "arrival" is concerned, I haven't heard anything (very little coming out of MNG), but my guess, (and it is a guess) would be April 09 at the earliest.

Anyone else like to take a punt?

[wesky]

When they start line training, who knows?

What we do know is that 32 weeks was a little ambitious - this now has been proven. Some (cadets) would be capable but as they are trained as a group, if a substantial amount of 'robots' lag behind, then so do the rest of them by the looks of things.

I believe the objective of the course was to train a group all of the way through and then single out individual training for those that require further attention during the line training.

All in all, I hope that we start seeing a few on the right hand seat very soon. I really feel for these guys - especially with the evident communist ethic.

As a side note, it is becoming apparent that those involved with the cadetship (read: HR) are proactively viewing these forums and in particular monitoring this thread. For those employed by REX, choose your words wisely.

[KRUSTY 34]

Quote:

"As a side note, it is becoming apparent that those involved with the cadetship (read: HR) are proactively viewing these forums and in particular monitoring this thread. For those employed by REX, choose your words wisely."

Sage advice wesky. I think it would be a cold day in hell before REX management actually gave much positive thought to what is said on these threads. More the pity.

As for thoughts of retribution? That wouldn't surprise me in the least!

[Muff Hunter]

Let'm read the posts...what are they going to do..9 lashings with the cane..(although LKH does think he is in SING)

The latest on the cadets I have heard is that they are still miles off a PPL, although a bit of theory is completed.

I do believe they still don't have a CFI/CP....

Mu guess is that the won't see the SAAB until the latter part of next year at the earliest!!

[PlankBlender]

That'll be one hell of a cost benefit analysis if anyone at Rex actually ever dares to do one :eek: I would suspect if one added up a couple of years down the line how much money they will have spent on getting a few batches of beginners on line, they will find it was a very bad & expensive decision as they could have improved their skill base much quicker and cheaper by attracting and retaining experienced pilots with industry standard T's & C's! ..not to mention saving themselves a bundle in cost from planes sitting on the ground due to "poached" crews, and a massive headache from constantly trying to fight the windmills of supply and demand..

It'll be interesting to see whether they'll try to save face by hiding the losses in a "training division", or whether they'll just quietly shut the thing down in a couple of years..

I guess it's a question of mindset, and that is, as most will appreciate, the hardest to change, in this case it's probably a non-starter given the attitude of the top brass :{

[KRUSTY 34]

If ever there was a post here that management should read it's yours Plank. Tragically, they are either unwilling, or more to the point incapable of assimilating it!

Re: the future of the Cadet program. It will be interesting indeed to see just how pragmatic a businessman LKH really is. The program was initially sold to the board as either a cost neutral or even a profitable excercise, with the total exposure being tendered out to the lowest bidder. Well, we've all seen how sucessful that little escapade was. Blind freddy could see, that considering the state of the industry (G/A in particular), it was unlikely that the over optomistic low bidders would ever be able to make a go of it. Now it's up to REX to make a go of it. The only way that will be done is to abandon all hope of it being profitable in it's own right. One thing on the boss's mind I might suggest, would have been the REX Chief of staff's assertion that the Cadets would be trained from Go to "Whoe" in 32 weeks!! The costing of their lodgings and the requirements for space to be made for subsequent courses would have been factored into the $80K fee. If the true time frame does, and probably will extend to at least 18 months (78weeks!), then the $80K is going to be stretched mighty thin.

The only arguement for it's continuation (and a lobsided one at that) is that of the "future" crewing needs of the company. With the boss's almost pathalogical approach to costs, it will be facinating to see how long it is before he decides to cut his loses.

[Muff Hunter]

Any QF cadets reading this post it would be interesting to see how long you guys take to get into the left seat of the dash (or the like)?? doing more credible QF cadet scheme!!

[Aviator500]

Landof4x - I believe the answer to your question is a resounding YES!

[KRUSTY 34]

Hot off the grapevine.

It seems the CFI at the Mangalore reservation has run foul of men who speak with forked tounge!

Plucked from the ranks of eager REX First Officers, this motivated but misguided soul has effectively had his career stopped dead in it's tracks for no other reason than the Company have been unable to replace him. Whilst his motives were noble, the outcome of dealing with the Devil has now become apparent.

Grow a backbone son, and tell them, don't ask them. By relinquishing your rights to progression, you only assist those who would throw you to the wolves at the first opportunity.

[wickednoel]

I apologize in advance, if this question has already been answered. I was wondering what the entry requirments were for the cadetship? I have British high school qualifications with little/no maths or science background. By the end of the year I should also have a foundation studies certificate in commerce. Any ideas on what REX want in terms of qualifications? Any infro from current cadets/applicants would be helpful. I'm asking because the REX website doesn't actually say....

Thanks,
Noel

[KRUSTY 34]

Essential Requirements:

Young (preferably under 23)
Have little or no previous flying experience.
Motivated
intelligent
resilient
Obedient without question
Uninterested in home ownership
uninterestd in a secure future for your children
unintersted in future advancementYou really need to look closely at this scheme. For the candidate, the lure of a position with a regional straight out of flight school may seem like a dream come true. The reality is it's the Gamble of the century.

Cadetships in one form or another have their place. In fact the damage done to the profession over the years has made them more popular than ever. However be warned, this scheme was born out of a desperate attempt to mitigate a problem which was of the industry's own making. It was originally tendered out to third parties and the contracts awarded to the lowest bidder. Only when it's collapse was imminent did the company step in and actually take ownership.

As a cadet, you have no rights under the pilot industrial agreement. You will be required to devote a large sum of money, and commit to what amounts to 6 years service with the airline. Once you have completed your training you will then have to attain the standards expected of a REX first officer. Whether or not your training will prepare you for this still remains to be seen. It should be noted that even some experienced candidates fail to make it through the REX induction program. The endorsement and training process for first officer on the SAAB is, and will remain, tailored to the 2000 hour candidate who has already attained a fair measure of industry experience!

My advice: Look at the alternatives.

QF, although competitive, does offer a well founded career path.

General flying training, go down to your local flying school and see what it will cost for an intergrated program. The money you save may give you the means to climb the experience ladder, that will prove invaluable in the coming years. There are no garentees with this course however, but you will have the advantage of seeing if the game is truely for you, and within a couple of years you may have the aeronautical experience required for future advancement. (the REX cadetship will not provide you with this)

Good luck with whatever you decide, but remember, when gambleing the odds are always tilted in favour of the house!

[wickednoel]

Krusty,

Thanks for your input. I'm curious, are you speaking from personal experience? I've come across your anti REX posts before and was curious as to why your view point is the way it is. You're right the prospect of getting a job with an airline as soon as I finish training does sound like a dream come true. Especially if they accept my qualifications. I've looked at local flying schools as well as the diploma of aviation, whereby i'd get the atpl on top of th commercial license amongst a few other things, but it doesn't cost much less than the REX scheme, only i'd need to pay for my training over 15 months. Anyway, thanks again...

Noel

[KRUSTY 34]

Thats OK noel, but I must make one thing clear.

I am Not Anti-REX!

Have a close read of my posts and you will see that. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Krusty.

[Muff Hunter]

Noel,

steer clear of the rex cadet scheme, it's nothing more than a scam to get and keep fo's for a long period of time.

if you have the academic quals/ability for the qf cadet course jump at it.

if not, ga is the way to go, and a great chance to really gain experience that will hold you in good stead for the rest of your career.

remember, cadets will not make a decision in anger for a long time, and when your time comes all the experience you have gained in ga along the way could save your bacon.. (this is not a direct dig at cadets, just stating a fact)

[wickednoel]

Training is conducted at mangalore airport. Home Page (http://www.mangaloreairport.com.au/) I don't think the flying school REX use has a website. That's all I know so far, i'll post more after i've sent off my CV.

[Altimeters]

Looks like the first batch will be finished by the end of the year. Having obtained their PPLs now.

[Muff Hunter]

ppl to ifr-cpl-s340 endo in four months.....

tell'm there dreamn'

[KRUSTY 34]

Listen to Muff' Altimeters. A dose of reality may be in order.

A direct entry REX F/O, ATPL/IFR, started in April, Checked to line 2 weeks ago. Time from induction to Checked, 4 months. And he was one of the lucky ones! At the moment REX are flat out keeping their current pilots qualified. A chronic shortage of simulator time, Check and Trainers, and an ongoing crewing crisis, have ensured that the existing REX line pilots be given priority in all these regards.

Also, now that the first batch of Cadets have exceeded (and continue to do so by a large margin) the originally planned 8 month program, who's picking up the tab for the extra acommodation, meals, class space etc..? Methinks the board wont be happy about that!

Must be getting pretty crowded down there?

[Hugh Jarse]

and an ongoing crewing crisis

So, are you blokes still working days off, Krusty? If so, you are white-anting yourselves, particularly during an EBA period.

Just say "no".

[KRUSTY 34]

Not as simple as it sounds Hugh.

John Howard's workplace laws are still in place. If everyone unilaterally chose not to work on their days off, then that would be OK. The problem is that even though overtime is not compulsory, anyone, or any organisation that in any way requests, directs or otherwise, any employee not to do overtime, then that is deemed illegal indistrial action! Big fines, lots of hassel!

I'm convinced that if people were asked in the proper manner, they would probably all pull together. In the absence of such a process, most REX pilots who are inclined to work on their days off more than likely feel that "If I don't do it, someone else will". This is especially relevant when you consider the appallingly low salaries of the most junior F/O's. And frankly it's difficult to blame them.

For the record, I do not work on my days off. Mainly because I have come to realise that time with my family is far and away more important than the small financial gain (especially after tax) that I may get.

It's starting to bite however. More REX pilots are now refusing, especially on the weekends. When you consider they only recieve one off every roster, then it becomes all the more important to them. REX are now seriously undercrewed on most weekends. The average number of uncrewed sectors during these days is around 40!

I have heard that the REXPC will be initiating legal industrial action because the company has not acted in good faith during the now failed EBA process. I can only assume that some sort of ban on overtime may result from this process.

Whatever happens though, the company is only manageing to avoid substantial cancellations due to the work by pilots on their RDO's. This situation will only get worse as more REX crews see the light. With luck it may just focus the board's attention to just how valuable their pilots are.

Although, I won't be holding my breath!

[the odyssey]

Krusty, I find it hard to believe that a Rex pilot would waste their time monitoring a cadet forum. Who are you and why do you insist on scaring people away from the program and over to Qantas? Perhaps you yourself are tasting the bitter feeling of an unsuccesful application?

Lets set the record straight -

For all of you hopefulls out there looking for answers, I assure you, this is not the place to be finding those answers. Most of the people posting here have absolutely no relationship to the company or program and are therefore only speculating and stirring.

I urge you, if you are interested in the Rex cadet program, speak to someone in the company or even the cadets themselves. Why not even get yourself out to Mangalore and arrange to look around? See and hear for yourselves, straight from the horses mouths.

Yes, do your research, but do it in the right places!

Consider this:

A) How much money would you pay as a private student to get to the level of theory and flying training that a Rex cadet will at the end of their training? Add to that, the cost of rent, food, utility bills etc. Now remember, after all your hard work, you have no guarenteed job, so start looking at air charter companies up northfor potential work (ferrying frieght, tourists or the "locals" around) - because you'll need to bust your gut there for at least a few years until you even reach the minimums for direct entry FO for a highly regarded RPT operation such as Rex.

Or;
B) for $80,000 (which is salary sacrificed over a 5 year term), spend 8 months training at Mangalore and then you're in the right hand seat of a SAAB340 (that $80,000 includes food, rent, bills, books, flying training etc).

Also, one thing that older posts have failed to include is that, you can leave the company before the 5 year term is up, you just have to pay up front the remainder of your "loan".

I know which option I'd prefer...

In a nutshell, every start up program has a few teething problems. They are now sorted. Cadets are hitting the milestones, studying hard, flying often - on track to be the future of the airline. Those of you who speculate and sit back and judge, you are the fools missing out on this opportunity.

[the odyssey]

Aussie Aviator - I wonder what the 6 (of the 38 in total) cadets above the age of 32 think of you calling them "kids"?

These guys and girls are not only 'of age', but an even greater number are married and a few even have children!

Lastly; there is no 'gagging' of cadets, they are just all too busy getting on with the job.

Get your facts straight

[PlankBlender]

popcorn: check

beer: check

armchair: check

refresh button: check

Let's see how hard and fast you get flamed, odyssey :E

Have you bothered checking who the posters are that you are so liberally rubbishing here?

If, as your few postings here suggest, you are one of the Rex cadets, the naivety of your posts is a match for the obvious denial you're in about the program you paid to join..

Live and learn, let's see how you think about your career move in a few years..

[QF2]

Now, first of all, I would like to see the Rex Cadetship become successful. However Odyssey, what you say is a bit misleading for people not in the know. I have spoken to cadets and they describe a program that has not been well run or managed so far. You can blame this simply on "teething problems" but I wouldn't say that is the explanation, there have been many mistakes made since the course began that should never have happened. In addition, I'm sure job security is something weighing on the cadets' minds due to the poor management of the company which is pulling it down, and while management are not giving the pilots and cadets the respect they deserve, I don't see things getting better in the short term. Also, if the program or airline was to fall apart, would the cadets not still have to pay back the amount they owe? And if they did leave before the 5 years that you state is up and they are required to pay back the remaining portion of the loan, wouldn't that outstanding amount be payable immediately? It's not at amount that would be easy to pay back suddenly when you're making approximately $45000 a year. And say these cadets do become first officers, as some will over the next six months or so, they are working for a company that has no respect for its pilots and I can't say that that would be the nicest feeling to work for such a company.

This post has focussed on the negatives so far to provide some balance against what Odyssey has said, but there are many positives coming out of the cadetship, and I think the cadetship would be a great opportunity for young pilots if things were coming along a bit better with the company. However, it is important for any prospective cadets reading this that you do take the time to research the company and weigh up all the positives and negatives so that you can make the best decision. On the whole I think that in theory the cadetship is a good idea and a great opportunity for many, however it would be quite stressful being a cadet or pilot for this company when you just don't know how it is going to go over the next few years.

Fingers crossed that there are some improvements in the near future and good luck to all involved with the company!

[Track Direct]

Hey Odyssey where can I get a pair of your rose coloured glasses from ? Krusty is in the know on all things REX, you would do well to listen to someone who knows the culture of REX and it's mis-managers.
If you are one of the cadets, for 80K you are being taken for a ride mate...talk about naive :rolleyes:

[FlyingChipmunk]

Hey Spaceman Odyssey,

"the cadets are the future of REX".........I fully agree with you, they are going to be the BLEAK future of REX. The next 6 months or so will see the loss of more high tenured Captains that we are now very, very short of. (please don't leave Krusty, the next EBA will be fantastic) The employment of foreigners is not enough to fill these gaps, especially seeing that NONE of the cadets are upgradeable during their contract.

Yes, being in the right seat of anything >5700kg is nice early in your career, ONLY if you are rightly renumerated, respected and know that the company has a career plan for their pilots.......but then again, you will leave in a few years to fly a jet, and another cadet will come and fill your place, thus, "REX Has Solved Its Pilot Shortage":ugh:

I've run out of popcorn....so maybe you can tell me where to but some of those Happy Pills you are being fed?

[wesky]

Someone has just shot themselves in the foot.

I can see that this would make a great cabin convo...

Odyssey: "Yeah, like I posted something on that PPRune forum. There is this guy called 'Krusty' and he is always flamming Rex etc etc, it's like he has no idea how good Rex is. He thinks he's a know all etc etc but I think he is a w%%%%r. "

Meanwhile, to the left of Odyssey sits the PIC. PIC = Krusty

bahaha

I think this person needs to read the entire thread and re-evaluate his/hers comments.

"32 weeks" to CPLism (new word) - we're almost a year in to the first group induction and still nothing to show. I don't know about you guys, but that is one big flaw (Att: Odyssey - read). But hey, they got a shared roof over their heads and food to eat... all for $80k!

[KRUSTY 34]

Crikey guys,

Not much point me saying anything else! But you know me. I appreciate the support, but you must be aware odyssey, their support is bourne out of a true knowledge of the situation. I, like others simply choose to make comment on it.

The reason I monitor the cadet forum is because of the implications it will have not just for REX and the current pilot group, but for the Cadets themselves. Follow the advice of the others and have a good read through this and other threads. You will see that I am not anti-REX, but I do care for the long term future of our profession. That future may include cadets, but it should be for the right reasons.

REX pilots are, remuneration wise and relatively speaking, 17-20% worse off today to what they were 10 years ago! That is a fact. The incentive payments for pilots to work on their days off is only 80% of what it was 13 years ago, and that's in real terms! Fact. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The inexorable reduction in professional pilots terms and conditions (aided and abeted by inept company management, Ansett and Hazelton) has led us to where we are today. If you are a cadet odyssey, but somehow I feel you are not, then you are being sold a wages and conditions package that is more than a decade out of date. REX management are pitching this to young and impressionable people, because the pilots they really need are not buying it. In fact, GA has been so decimated by the advantage taken of subsequent pilot groups over the years that there are few left out there with the required experience at all. Those left are not willing to settle for it. And who can blame them.

And don't think REX won't cast you adrift if it suits them. I have it on good authority that REX will simply reduce services further if they are unable to source future Captains. REX has an enviable, if not outstanding debt equity ratio. They could literally cut the company services in half and still survive. Instead of 240 pilots they very well may have to do the job with 120! These will consist of the last remaining 70 or so captains. The rest will be made up of the 50+ F/O's who cannot be upgraded, or maybe the only remaining F/O's that can be. As for the rest, retrenchment. Ever heard that word? So REX makes 10 million a year instead of 20 million, at least untill things bounce back, and that may take years. The real casualties will be the junior non upgradeble pilots at the bottom of the seniority list, and of course the flying public.

But what do they care!

[gamma69]

Is this an Anti-Rex disscusion is it;)

[Hugh Jarse]

REX pilots are, remuneration wise and relatively speaking, 17-20% worse off today to what they were 10 years ago! That is a fact. The incentive payments for pilots to work on their days off is only 80% of what it was 13 years ago, and that's in real terms! Fact. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Krusty, as I metioned in a previous response - all you guys have to do is state a unified "NO". Not a matter of organised action through your union (as I think you mentioned), but on an individual basis. If the remuneration isn't up to scratch, then don't do it! :ugh:

Sure, it's easy to say "if I don't do it somebody else will", but when it all boils down you have to make a stand against the soft cocks. I didn't work a single day off (by choice) in the last 5 years I was at Eastern. Yes, some flights were still cancelled, but time with one's family is more important. Plus, effectively I was taking a command from somebody by working days off. Some companies count on that by keeping their establishment of captains deliberately low and depending on captains' goodwill to take up the slack. Pity the poor guys hanging out for their commands being gazumped by guys too greedy to think of those junior to them.....

If you're not prepared to collectively take a stand, then it's not much use whinging about it.;)

[Kev9]

YouTube - So You Want to be a Regional Airline Pilot? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RayMaswju1A)


Has this been seen before by the cadets?


:mad::mad::mad::mad:

[KRUSTY 34]

Gidday Hugh.

I couldn't agree more!

[KRUSTY 34]

2 more Command upgrades made permanent F/O's!

Notwithstanding the fact that REX have been reduced to recruiting pilots with much less experience than that required for command, but now many of those with the minimum experience are failing the upgrade process. This is despite the fact that candidates are being given 3 three attempts instead of the previous 2!

What a sorry situation. I really feel for these people, but I'm afraid there's more to come. Not all fail, and those who get through are to be truely commended. The ratio of failure to sucess however is starting to swing towards the negative. Where once a new pilot had the benefit of several years in the right seat, and a substantial amount of Sim experience to draw upon, they are now litteraly being thrown in at the deep end. Commands at REX are now running at 6 (yes that's right) 6 months from time of joining. This is insufficient time to become fully accustomed to the position of F/O, let alone tackle the demands of command upgrade. The standards of the checks are every bit as rigorous, and in any event CASA are reportedly quite determined that this level be maintained.

The last command to be awarded saw a jump of no less than 17 places on the seniority list. The next lot (due out this week) will see the three instructors at the Mangalore training centre become eligible! And none of them have even flown a SAAB!!!

We are now seeing the results of REX's inability to grasp the true nature of the pilot shortage. There is only one way to describe what this has become.

FARCE!

[go_soaring]

Interesting, I think I'll be asking to repeat a phase or two (10 sectors at a minimum) to ensure I've got the goods to pass the CTL line and sim days first crack! Dont need or want the stress of mucking up and having the Px on the following sim in order to get the 4th bar on my shoulder.

I think the 6 months you talk about is from Day 1 of CTL FO to begining of the ground school for Captain upgrade training. But then again, nothing would surprise me in this game :)

I still haven't even officially finished my probationay period yet - haha!


go_soaring! instead

[Muff Hunter]

go soaring, just confirm you are doing a command upgrade at REX?

[KRUSTY 34]

go_soaring.

Don't get me wrong, the last thing I want to do is scare good people like you. If you apply yourself in the same manner as you have so far, then frankly you should be fine. needless to say, I'm more than happy to offer advice.

The main thing I was getting at, is the standards are the same as they have always been. They were originally applied to 4-5 thousand hour applicants with around 2000 hours total time on the SAAB. That was about the experience level of candidates not too many years ago. Some still failed, but the majority however got through. I also don't believe that this high level of experience is necessarily a minimum, but there comes a point where this lack of experience can, and does make the difference for a growing number of candidates.

It is this growing number of failures that REX can ill afford. So what does REX need to do? The answer is obvious.:ugh:

[wickednoel]

Btw guys i've just applied for the cadetship....Awaiting a response. Wish me luck!

[KRUSTY 34]

Good luck!

No, seriously, GOOD LUCK!!!

[Sydney2006]

Hey Wickednoel,

I also just applied, about a week ago, looking forward to hearing back from them.

Good luck

Aaron

[MajorLemond]

It ain`t all bad, as Krusty stated, the checks and training have a high standard, and this is recognised by many airlines. The pay may not be crash hot, but it`s a company that is full of great people and will be the most fun flying you will ever do in your career as an airline pilot.

Take from the experience what you can.

good luck :)

[bushy]

It's good to see some positive and encouraging words on Prune.

[MajorLemond]

FMC, yeah i`m pretty sure QF do min wx circling approaches into LAX when the weather is bad, without the AP engaged to keep up the hand skills in the 747-400. :p

I stated "airline flying" because thats what it is. It wasn`t taking anything from G.A. of course that in itself is a whole different (fun) experience so don`t take offence. When it comes to operating multi-crew airline type ops, hammering around in a 340 or a Dash 8 is about the most fun you`ll have and i`m sure many will agree :)

[MerlinV8]

Does anyone know if the REX cadets have finished their course?

I was led to believe that they were to finish this month? if they have I was curious to know what the outcome was after all of the discussion recently.

If so how many qualified? and whats the general feeling out there on how it all went? are the cadets happy with the way they were/are dealt with at the end of it all? Does this mean REX will stop recruiting outside direct entry pilots?

Anyone out there in the know?

[KRUSTY 34]

I have heard (via the grapevine) that the first course is about to start the SAAB Groundschool shortly. Rumour has it that of the original class only half will be in attendance!

Any Cadets care to comment on that?

[MerlinV8]

Yeah I would like to hear from a cadet how it went?

And what were reasons for the others dropping out?

So how many is half? wern't there 40 to begin with?

[Chadzat]

:ugh::ugh:

Mate, come back to this thread in 2 years and you will laugh at your naivety. I'll give you a 1% chance you will be happy earning less than pretty much EVERY other worker in town and putting up with a helluva lot more **** day to day than them.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you will find a lot of other guys in this "profession" will not share your view.

[Muff Hunter]

Dom,

This is why these shonky airlines treat their pilots the way they do.

We/You should not just be content with a job in the aviation sector, but strive to earn/gain a decent income and respect.

REX do neither and will continue down this path until their pilots make a stand.

We have all invested too much blood, sweat and tears to be getting less than a truck driver or someone labouring on a building site (no offence to these professions)

[GrantC83]

Hi all,

Without getting into the debate of whether or not this cadetship is a worthwhile initiative, I would like some advice from everyone about the competitiveness of the program.

I am a professionally employed 25 year old with about 11 hours flying experience in a Cessna 152 (currently learning circuits - pre solo). Other than that my resume contains nothing relevant to flying, a postgrad degree in business and 5 years as a manager etc.

I have put in an application for the REX cadetship and was wondering if anyone knows anything about how they will screen my application intially? Do I have a chance?

I would greatly appreciate any feedback anyone can offer here.

Thanks,
Grant

[KRUSTY 34]

I'd tell you if I knew GrantC83.

All things Cadet have been locked up pretty tightly. Last thing they want is anything to corrupt JD's baby.

One thing I do know however is that pilots with any usefull experience need not apply. The term captive workforce comes to mind!

So mate, you just may be in with a chance. One word of advice though, at the interview ask them where you will be in 5 years? No scratch that. They'll probably say you'd be a Shuttle Commander!

Better to have a read of the threads .

Krusty.

[GrantC83]

Thanks Krusty. Do you happen to know the dates of their next two intakes?

[granth]

Hey Guys - just curious or absolutely mad not sure quiet which one, however, I wrote to REX about the cadetship (which yeah is a bit of a raw deal) in saying this I have a CPL, NVFR, ME CIR blah, blah, blah and am about 150hours shy of applying as a first officer they want minimum 800 hours 200 or 250 IF.

What I don't understand is they are prepared to loan money to an unknown quantity who more than likely has no idea how to operate an aircraft or what it takes to fly one in the crap - yes, with a pay back, but there is no real guarentee that would happen in reality if you quit, there could be an at large wait for the cash if you physically don't have it or can not get it - so here is where I become dumb founded - someone in my situation they will not touch nor make any concession for - seems dumb, doesn't it.?

A trained, Australian guy - knows the drill, been there done it, spent the bucks, already been involved with operations, knows the country - I can speak English, can someone tell me why or explain to me why they would not cultivate not just little old me, but there are others in my position looking for a start, surely they could place people like me in Pelair or something for a few months, or is it easier to import pilots than to make a small investment in training.

Maybe we will see REX home loans soon..?? I am confused, I just don't get it..! Maybe I should go back out bush - seem easier out there..!!

FIK

[pylet]

Granth, just get the 150hrs buddy! That's 2 months work in a good GA job. REX, just like QF, has introduced two avenues for pilot employment - direct entry and cadets, and a line has to be drawn to separate the two. In this case, it's no/little experience vs 800hrs with 300 MEIF (or whatever it is now).

"A trained, Australian guy - knows the drill, been there done it, spent the bucks, already been involved with operations, knows the country - I can speak English...."

You sound like every other Australian pilot.

The cadetship is there to teach the cadets how to fly the way REX (or any airline) wants them to. These guys will be trained how to "operate an aircraft" and "fly one in the crap" just like any other IFR pilot, so lets not bag them out because of their current experience, that will be built upon as their training progresses.

Most would argue that 150hrs shy of REX's mins is far from being experienced! I would agree with you and say go back to the bush, meet the mins, get the job.

[KRUSTY 34]

Well said pylet.

granth with all due respect, the direct entry F/O training and checking program at REX has for many years been tailored around the 2-3000 hour candidate with at least 1000 hours multi-IFR under his/her belt. Necessity has dictated that REX now employ pilots with significantly less experience, although the standards remain unchanged. As a result the failure rate at REX has soared, and it seems that this is something the company is willing to accept!

The Cadet program is entirely different (as pylet said). Whether or not it is sucessful still remains to be seen. And even though you have more hours than the average cadet, the notion that you have been there and done that is probably a little premature.

[The PM]

A bit of REX related news just spotted on the local tv news service.Air Link has effectively been shut.All RPT services have been cancelled as of late December, with charter to remain for now.Quoted reason being because removal of a government subsidy makes the routes concerned unviable.Posting from memory (was burning food at the time and heard from a distance) so I will confirm and amend details as required.

Edit: media release on the REX website:

Media Release Archive (http://www.rex.com.au/MediaAndPressClippings/MediaReleaseList.aspx?Site=MC)

[the odyssey]

The first bunch of cadets are now being processed through ground school, a few at a time (apparently to ensure that some guys with more experience will be in the mix, ie: upgradable sooner).

Hope that answers your question Krusty, as none of those cadets have failed or dropped out - it is a staggered entry for reasons mentioned above.

Rumour has it, the performance of this first group (of cadets) has been greater than the direct entry guys.

Sim training to start shortly.

So the "remain to be seen" success of the cadets, is now becoming more of a reality than a mirage.

I have my popcorn in hand...

ps - May I point out, I in no way am interested in giving/having an opinion on conditions etc at Rex, rather, want to point out that these guys and gals deserve a chance no matter what the relevance of the two have to one another.

[CTOT340]

Good luck to them I say. I wish I had the opportunity of a cadetship when I was starting out.

It's no surprise to me that these guys are doing well, they're young, keen and haven't had GA operators crush their sole. They've just been through all the 7 subjects and IREX, so they're fresh, and bound to be more up to speed than many others.

Welcome aboard I say. The only thing I'm not happy about is there seems to be an attitude that they all walk on water, whereas the direct entry guys are all a bunch of slack idiots. It's a shame. Surely there's benefit of having both groups in the pot...

[KRUSTY 34]

The first Cadets in Groundschool consisted of the first 6 to graduate. They were the first to graduate because they had previous experience (most had at least a ppl). As far as the remaining 4 dozen or so, well they may take somewhat longer. Most will eventually graduate, but the initial timeline of 8 months has proven to be a wild exageration. Onya' Jim!

Initial reports of their performance in the class room have however been excellent. CTOT340 has correctly identified why. The Sim is next, and provided they maintain their grasp of procedures, and they possess sufficient manipulative skills, then they should do well there also.

Will they solve REX's crewing difficulties. Definitely not, and most here know the reason why. I also wish them the best, but the shortcut to the right seat of a regional turboprop will come at a price. Whether the Cadets are ultimately comfortable with that price will also remain to be seen.

[Muff Hunter]

Lets see how they go flying into places like King Is and Wynard on dark stormy night with a captain who doesnt want to be there...in a bucket A model....after pulling 10 peoples bags off and being abused as they hop onbaord the a/c.....

welcome to rex........

and lets no forget, getting paid less than a full time check out chick!!

[FlyingChipmunk]

Don't forget, out of that disgraceful wage, the cadets have to salary sacrifice to repay the training 'loan' back to REX.
They will very soon realise that not only are they : 1) bonded for a very, very long time as an FO with NIL upgrade prospect, but 2) they are taking home less than all the other lowly paid FOs due to their training loan repayments.
The shine wears off all too quick. I, like all others, wish them well.

[LambOfGod]

Are there any current or 'use to be' REX pilot's that could give me some info. The reason im asking is because I obviously aspire to be a commercial pilot and love REX...
So;
What is it like working for Rex, do you enjoy it?
What is the training, recruitment and testing process? e.g, simulator.
How many hours were you hired on?
How often do you fly (hours), your rank and days on days off?
What aircraft do you fly?
and if you dont mind, How much money p.aIf you think your answers are to private for public use, you can always PM me...:)

Thanks guys for any info, if I'v missed anything (I have a million Q's) let me know.:ok:

[Mach E Avelli]

If you really are age 16, I understand where you are coming from - even if it was nearly half a century ago that I was your age!

However, do a search in these forums on Rex and any other company you may be interested in. You will soon learn that Rex pilots in particular are not a happy group of campers. Do not part with any money for so-called 'cadetships' with ANY operator until you really do your homework.

But when you trawl through the forums and read lots of negative stuff, don't be disheartened. Despite the whingers and whiners out there, flying still beats working for a living. Just be careful to pick the right path.

[Happy Lapper]

this is going to get ugly...

[Mudflat]

Lamb of God,
There are other forums that are covering this topic pretty well at the moment, but I'm happy to answer your Q's here.

Working for Rex is fantastic!! Morale is at all time highs, with the pilot group expecially sticking together through the current EBA negotiations. The FO's are over the moon that they get to give a large portion of their profit share to the Capts, and recieve alot less than the companies valued FA's.

The training process is second to none. You are almost trained to the very high standards the company hold. If your really lucky you will be trained well enough to pass a check, but this is rare and there are no guarente's. If you are in the majority and require extra training, you may be lucky enough to receive that training within about a month of failing the check, which is obviously awesome.

The recuitment process is pretty well straight forward. Turning up usually clinches the deal. The guys getting in at the moment have a wide range of experience....anywhere between 350 to 500 hours. The guys at the lower end of the scale usually get in cause they have 10-20 hours ICUS in a seminole or something similar....it's amazing how a bit of twin time makes all the difference.

Rex pilots currently get to fly 6 days a week!! which explains the chipper mood amongst the crew. Sometimes you get to fly with a Capt that has just come off his/her RDO, so he/she is really fresh and dosen't need a quick nap during the cruise....talk about fun times!! Most of the Capts have over 1500 hours and have been in the company for at least 6 months, which is just what you want when your a new FO thats a bit light on the hours. It's just such a good set up.

Rex fly Saab 340 aircraft. They are a great regional airliner however the company does like to think it's as complicated as a space shuttle to fly...but there is no need to worry, the extra training you receive after you fail your checks sorts that out!...How cool is that!!!!

The topic of pay is a sensitive one, but lets just say that the pilots are remunerated in such a way that they can comfortably maintain the life style they enjoyed in GA for the 3 or 6 months that they did it.

So all in all lifes pretty good at Rex. Just keep an eye out for the head of check and training. He's the dude that has his shirt perfectly ironed and doesn't have a hair out of place, infact he often looks like a card board cut out of himself!! His personal skills are second to none and if your really lucky after you fail your check he'll ring you up with a motivational speech that will take your breath away....truely amazing stuff.

Gee, and to think Rex lost over half it's pilots over the past 12 months....makes you wonder doesn't!

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Wow, and I thought that somebody would have something negative to say.

FRQ CB

[Wing Root]

why have guys who hate REX stayed?
Care to suggest where they should go? I would guess 95% of rex F/Os and plenty of captains have an application with every airline in the country. Trouble is no one is hiring now... So just watch the exodus start when the big boys are "poaching" again.

As for confronting certain people... Well for those who do want to get out I suggest trying that. It will be entertaining! :D

[hoss]

Mudflat, if had to work for REX I want you to be my mentor!

Top work mate and look forward to meeting you in DJ oneday;).

[aviator23]

I have seen a few posts in regard to the cadets and them being unable to be upgraded to captains at some stage in there careers?

My understanding is you require 250 hours PIC of which 150 can be ICUS to be upgraded. This taken into consideration why wouldn't the cadets be able to upgrade at some stage down the track?

[KRUSTY 34]

It's all back in previous posts aviator23, but here goes...


Minimum req's for ATPL (amongst other things of course) 250 hours command of which 150 may be ICUS. Ergo.. 100 hours must be "Real" command. No dual, no ICUS. REX Cadets finish their course with approx 70 hours "Real" command. 30 hours short of the minimum. No ATPL, no command on the SAAB
REX have a "LOW" capacity AOC. Do not confuse the command requirements for the ATPL with the requirements of the AOC. Two completely different things. However under the provisions of the AOC, pilots must have at least 500 hours multi command under Instrument Flight Rules to qualify. This may be ICUS, but at present the only way a candidate can log such is by sitting in the LHS under the supervision of a qualified Check &/or Training Captain in the RHS. Many will try to tell you otherwise, but the logging of ICUS without a structured syllabis is only permitted from the RHS for the purpose of hours towards the ATPL! CASA have come to realise this to their embarresment.These are just 2 barriers to Cadets ever holding a command at REX. Whether or not these issues are ever resolved, only time will tell. One thing is for sure, if a certain REX senior pilot tells you it's all been taken care of, make sure you count your fingers after you shake his hand :E

[aviator23]

I suppose the only thing to do would be to obtain the additional 30 hours command, get out of Rex and try to obtain a position with another airline??

[wesky]

If only it was that easy...

[StrathmoreDave]

hey krust.......just letting you guys know that the solo rate the are charging at mangalore is 115 an hour......so they have offered us to finish an additional 30 hours vfr or ifr if we so desire......this means for 4000 extra you have the required hours to gain captaincy

also atpl's are encouraged......one of the boys did all his atpls prior to gradutaing in the first group.....

its all about how committed you are.......

anyways

its not as bad as people say:ok:

[Pretzal]

what the?
Doing an extra 30 hours to be able to gain captaincy...are you on drugs? You cannot possibly leave the flying school with the required hours to hold a command on the Saab 340. (full stop - let me emphasize that). There is a large gap between the hours cadets will have and the hours cadets will need to hold a command and they can't be filled just from sitting in right hand seat alone. There needs to be a formal training process in place which is not in existence now...

[Muff Hunter]

strathmore dave,

i've got a 1976 Datsun 120y for sale, it's only got 450000km's and is in ripper condition....(only a little rust around the chasis)

and i only want $4000 grand for her.....interested?

[FlyingChipmunk]

.....what is another $4000 on top of $80,000? Sounds like a bloody good deal. On top of that, you get command of a Saab in no time!

Once you're told a myth enough times, you start believing it. And by the way, CASA has approved ICUS from the right seat today, all you have to do is turn up for work and keep the hopes alive.......and if all else fails, you can pay a little more to buy hours from the REX cadet school.

And if you ever fly with Capt Krusty, please don't tell him that you're logging ICUS from the right seat, just do it quietly with alot of discretion. And that's because you're not starting/shutting down the engines, steering the aircraft, completed/ing a structured CASA approved Command training program,etc......and most of all, he isn't paid a single cent more to be supervising you in any shape or form.

Good luck with it.

[KRUSTY 34]

Crikey Chipmunk, I'm not that much of an ogre! I do however agree with what you said.

Pretzal, the extra 30 hours will only give the candidate the minimum command time (exclusive of ICUS) required to hold an ATPL. Lots more to get re: the requirements for the AOC and all the other ATPL requirements.

My estimate, 4-5 years at best. That of course depends on CASA agreeing to water down the existing regs! :rolleyes:

[Blue Carpet]

Hi all, there is not that much information on the Rex website, but when do Rex normally have an intake of new students for their Cadetship?

:O

[apache]

about six months after the damage has been done by all the experienced pilots leaving.

Give another 12 months, and they will be cadetting like crazy.

[KRUSTY 34]

From what I gather old mate they already are! If you look at the REX seniority list (Approx 250+), REX have more "pilots" on the books now than ever before. However, they have not reinstated any of their cancelled runs (all because of lack of crew), and are still cancelling flights due to the lack of available Captains, although the reduced January schedule has mitigated this significantly.

So what happens when demand starts to pick up in a couple weeks? Just more of the same I suppose!

The only thing the Cadet program, and the employment of low-timers has done to date is artificially fatten up the numbers. Oh, and eliminate the regular casual day payments for F/O's. Sorry guys, time to try and really survive on $15K P/A less than the average wage! :ouch:

[Muff Hunter]

JQ about to ramp up recruiting again.....and also vb by the look of it...

better upgrade the cadets fast to fill all the leaving cptns positions, seeing lkh is only willing to give 2% in the new eba..

[KRUSTY 34]

Probably the subject of another thread, but keep an eye on a certain struggling QLD operator. Perhaps more breathing space for REX, and the only way they will move back to QLD after the late 2007 debacle.

Mind you, it will all be dependent on them grabbing the drivers before the opposition gets them. Otherwise it could be a very short lived revival! :bored:

[Chadzat]

Just an update for anyone who is interested on what Rex DE applicants are going through at the moment.

A lot are on 'active' hold. Have been told during early November to expect and be ready for a start in Dec or Jan, and no further correspondence has been received since then. Further to this.....messages left and emails sent with the applicable person....have not been replied to. :ugh:

Most that i know would potentially be upgradable in 6-12 months as they have ATPL and multi requirements met.

People are starting to look (and get in) elseware. :ugh:

[KRUSTY 34]

Typical behaviour Chadzat, and not just from REX management, but nonetheless typical.

The assertion by the REX Chief of staff (or whatever his title is these days) that by the middle of 09' REX will have a "surplus of pilots" has apparently been swallowed by more than one REX manager. As such they probably feel there is no need to respond to messages and emails!

By the middle of 09', it will be interesting indeed to see what the reality will become. :{

[Snatch]

JQ about to ramp up recruiting again.....and also vb by the look of it...


...got a source? :sad:

[VH-XXX]

Please forgive my resurection of this thread, however when are Rex moving from Mangalore to Wagga and who is moving into Mangalore from Melbourne?

[KRUSTY 34]

I smell a rat here VH-XXX.

The move out of Mangalore is definitely on the cards. Whether the Cadet program actually arrives in Wagga Wagga, well...?

Rex are bottom heavy with pilots. The reduced January schedule has resulted in a true "surplus" of pilots including Captains!!! As virtually all of REX A/C are fully owned, then having them in the air less, and with a solid load factor (as has been the case in recent weeks) means that the imperative to return to an expanded (normal) schedule just may not be there. See where we are going here?

I reckon LKH is about to lower the boom on the Cadet program. He already has too many drivers, and with the major airlines defering their recruitment, he can afford the luxury of not having to compete for labour.

As the vast majority of REX routes are monopolies, with absolutely no-one in a position to compete, it will mean that most ports will now be offered say 4 even 2 flights a day instead of 6. If you want to fly, then you had better line up early to grab what seats are available. No more crewing issues (in the short term at least) and load factors that are a been counters dream.

As for the bottom 20 or so on the seniority list, well that's life boys and girls. Rex will not hesitate to cut you loose as soon as it suits them! :sad: