Bringing home the crew of KL654.

[Al R]

Volunteers forced to launch private mission to recover RAF crew's bodies - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6067385/Volunteers-forced-to-launch-private-mission-to-recover-RAF-crews-bodies.html)

DONATIONS (http://www.nesa.org.uk/rtf/page8.htm)

[Clockwork Mouse]

This country's complete lack of respect and compassion for its service personnel and their families is beyond belief. These young men died on active service for their country. The Government and the MoD have a duty to support the recovery of their bodies. Absolutely shameful that it is having to be done privately.
Steady CWM. Your blood pressure is rising again!

[Icanseeclearly]

I have just checked the Commenwealth graves commision web site, the names of the crew appear on the Singapore Memorial, so there is at least some record of the accident and so for the past 60 years somewhere for the families to visit.

As for whether or not the remains should be returned to the UK, it was policy to bury the dead in the country where they fell so how about the remains are taken to the Commenwealth cemetry in KL or Singapore and each crew member given their own headstone.

Just a thought..... the main thing is that they are remembered and never forgotten.

ICSC

[Al R]

The Australians recovered a Canberra crew recently and the UK g'ment has worked with the Aussies to the tune of millions to dig up WW1 vets and rebury them half a mile away. But there is a difference between being buried and remembered with respect, and left lying about the jungle and remembered with respect.

Typical MoD. If its not in the public eye and being dragged kicking and screaming to the cheque book in the harsh glare of public condemnation, it does f#ck all for those it relies on.

[cockney steve]

It never fails to amaze me that people will sign -up voluntarily to serve such a despicable, morally-bankrupt organisation as the MOD.

These "leaders " (who, no doubt, have their snouts firmly in the trough of Public largesse) should hanng their heads in shame.....except they have none.

Perhaps they need a return to dragging-out, tarring and feathering.:\

Come the revolution, we'll hang them from the lampposts.

[Sospan]

These men should be treated no less than the fallen of today, the MOD should send our recovery teams to repatriate them and drive them through Wooten Basset to give them the send off they deserve.

[Cows getting bigger]

The Americans have the right approach with such things.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

To see how the Americans do it check out the film "Taking Chance" starring Kevin Bacon, (based on a true story). If it doesn't bring a tear to your eye, nothing will. It is an absolute gem!

[Winco]

How utterly ashamed I am to see that this once great nation is now no longer able to even help repatriate a fallen RAF crew.

Shame on the MOD and the government. If ever there was confirmation needed as to how the armed forces are regarded by this government and 'their' own in the MOD, then surely people need look no further than this despicable act of disgust and shame.

Only a couple of weeks ago, we read on PPrune how the Americans had finally recovered the remains of the US Navy chap, shot down on the first night of GW1. More recently we see the Aussies bringing home a lost Canberra crew. The Americans I understand have a team in Cambodia and Vietnam permanently looking for their lost POWs etc.

And this lousy, stinking, good-for-nothing bunch in incompetant arseholes at the MOD and in government can't do likewise for one of our own. What have we become that this kind of thing can happen? Just how low can things get? What greater saccrifice could these guys have made for our nation?

Can't talk anymore, just too bl00dy angry. Infact I think I will write to my MP now about this and see what happens. God help us.

Winco

[Wader2]

In today's uncertain world, were I to die in action, I would expect my remains to be recovered and returned to UK. Of times past I would have wanted to be buried with others in theatre that had also given the ultimate sacrifice.

Having visited a number of war and other graves in foreign parts these graves really bring a lump to the throat and have far more impact than a scattering of war graves at home.

To see the sweeping fields of grave markers in France or in Singapore brings home very forcefully the futility of war. To see the graves atop a hill on a Caribbean island, or the dead from Trafalgar laid to rest in Gibraltar, so far from home in some forgotten corner of some foreign land, is most moving.

[Warmtoast]

I was stationed at RAF China Bay in Ceylon (Sri Lanka) in 1957 and didn't know until a visit in 2002 that a war graves cemetary existed in Trincomalee, just across the bay from China Bay where I was stationed - read on.

One of the far-flung Commonwealth War Graves Commission Cemeteries is the Trincomalee Commonwealth War Graves Commission Cemetery in north eastern Sri Lanka which is one of six commonwealth war cemeteries in Sri Lanka.

The Trincomalee cemetery was originally the Combined Services Cemetery, but was taken over by the Admiralty from the military in April 1948 for use as a permanent naval cemetery. On the withdrawal of UK Forces from Ceylon (Sri Lanka) in 1957 it became the property of the Sri Lanka Government who granted the Commonwealth War Graves Commission security of tenure in perpetuity. Save for a few post-war and non-war graves it is purely a war cemetery. The non-war graves are those of men of the Merchant Navy whose death was not due to war service and of civilians, of whom some were employees of the Admiralty; while the post-war graves were dependents of servicemen, civilian employees of the Admiralty and dependents of such employees. The cemetery contains 360 named graves and 4 unknown.

As expected most graves contain the remains of naval servicemen who died when the Japanese bombed the Royal Naval Eastern Fleet base at Trincomalee in April 1942. (Photo taken in May 2002 shows the caretaker responsible for the upkeep of the cemetery holding the cemetery visitors book and very proud to show visitors the entry signed by Princess Ann that she made on a visit to Trinco, date unknown).

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20China%20Bay/TrincomaleeWarGraveCemetery.jpg

[Chugalug2]

Warmtoast, my Dad is buried in the CWGC Cemetery at Yokohama having died as a POW in Japan. I have visited his grave in what is, like Trincomalee, an immaculate cemetery. As has been said, if these remains had been recovered shortly after the accident they would surely have been buried in the nearest CWGC Cemetery and hence amongst their contemporaries. It is now part of my family heritage that my dad is buried where he is and why, which one day I hope to explain to my grandchildren when they are old enough to understand. The sadness of these places is palpable, far more so than a UK civil cemetery or even a war memorial. They serve to remind us of the terrible price that war exacts. If I were the NoK I might hope that the crew of KL654 could contribute to that message for future generations, by carrying out a last duty "on parade" in those unmistakably military serried rows, just as my father does.
Cockney Steve:
It never fails to amaze me that people will sign -up voluntarily to serve such a despicable, morally-bankrupt organisation as the MOD.
They don't. They serve their Queen and Country, not a Government Department!

[PPRuNe Pop]

TIEW, have been trying to find the film you refer to - 'Taking Chance.' But searching for either KB or Taking Chance hasn't produced a result. Any further ideas?

[Ten West]

This country's complete lack of respect and compassion for its service personnel and their families is beyond belief.

With respect Sir, I think you may be confusing "The Country" with "The Government".

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

PPruNe Pop
Try Internet Movie Database (Imdb)
Taking Chance (2009) (TV) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1019454/)
and Amazon
Amazon.com: Taking Chance: Kevin Bacon, Michael Strobl: Movies & TV (http://www.amazon.com/Taking-Chance-Kevin-Bacon/dp/B001TOD6N4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1253621858&sr=8-1)

Hope you can get a copy from somewhere.
Cheers

[PPRuNe Pop]

Thanks for that. I have just now ordered it from Amazon. I normally get films from a huge library in the UK but this one is Region 1 only, which I have.

Thanks again.

PPP

[Ed Macy]

Al R and all those that have contributed.

Thanks for bringing this to the attention of PPRuNers.

We begged the Daily Telegraph not to publish that report as it jeopardises the aims of the expedition. They were more interested in a story they could publish than the outcome to the crew.
Needless to say I can’t go into it too much detail about the expedition and the outcome but I will spell out a few points.

The Malaysians found a crashed aircraft in the mountains and reported it as KL654. The location of the crash site had been contested by the MoD and the government as KL654 was reported lost at sea! Despite the Malaysians bringing back proof, the UK constantly denied it was KL654. They utterly refused to investigate. Eventually the evidence was overwhelming and they conceded that it was KL654.
They sent out the Defence Attaché and his Warrant officer to investigate – neither were aviation trained and both unqualified to make an assessment. They scraped down 6 inches of soil and covered an area 2 metres x 2 metres. They found personal items of the crew including a dog tag and a bone fragment. A consultant anthropologist said the bone was proven not to be animal and was consistent with the only other option – human. It couldn’t be DNA tested due to its size and state. The MoD and government refused to accept it as human and stated that the bones should have decayed by now, or would have been eaten by the wild animals? They closed the case.
Visit after visit by the Malaysians (when they could find it) proved that items of the aircraft were being stolen and the ground where the men were believed to be was being repeatedly dug up by treasure hunters. The men could not rest and the relatives of the crew asked in the Houses of Parliament if the MoD would recover them. The MoD answer was simple: we have done a thorough investigation of the site and there is nothing left. (They dug 2m x 2m and the aircraft was 110 feet wide, 66 feet long and 17 feet tall!) This closed the door on the relatives.

Clayton and I were asked by NESA if we would do the job for the relatives ourselves and pay our own way.

I dug into the government and MoD to see if what I was being presented was the truth and to see if I could get any assistance. I was both shocked and stunned by what I was told. British Forces left behind after in foreign countries are no longer the responsibility of the British Government.
I asked what their position was on the fact that a bone had been found and I got the same fobbing off. They would not actively look for any of our men even if one was reported. They would only act if the host nation could prove that it was one of ours. I was told by one Malaysian official that they were told by the Brits “if you don’t find a whole skeleton don’t call us. If you do and you can prove it’s ours we’ll assist in the burial.”

They said there would be no funding, no manpower and no equipment but wished us luck.

It cost us a bob or two but we’ve been and we’ve done it. The men are now safe and awaiting the next step. We’re just waiting for a few final reports to come through.

We will be publishing our report to the relatives very soon. If they are in agreement, it will be delivered to all of the UK newspapers at the same as it’s sent to the Defence Minister and the MoD. It will highlight what our country’s policy is on those that are left behind in conflicts. It will shock and upset you. It will show the fibs that were told to our government by the MoD to save money. It will pose some very straight-forward questions to our government on what the relatives want the government to do with the 8 man crew.
Finally it will highlight what other nations do for their fallen and what we don’t.
Food for thought: Your child is asked to go to Afghanistan and fight for our country’s security. They do it bravely and suddenly disappear in firefight never be seen again. One day, the war will be over. What is our government’s policy on researching, studying and searching for him?
It’s up to the host nation to do it because they’re no longer our responsibility…

Please support us when it all comes out and assist us getting it into the public eye. Only public outrage can sway a government that worries more about being in power than they do for the troops that allow them the freedom to make policy.

Link this to whatever you can.

Ed Macy
Author and former Attack Pilot

Clayton Ford
British Police Detective

[Al R]

Well, good luck and well done.

I would like to agree with you when you say that we might be shocked. However, nothing that our supposed lords and masters would do in a matter such as this would shock me any longer.

[Out Of Trim]

I am a bit shocked and quite disgusted at the Official reaction to this search to lay to rest this crew.

Please advise us of the Official contacts names so that we can Name & Shame the individuals involved.

My god, what sort of so-called leadership to we have to endure now?

W@nkers everyone of them it would appear!

[Topsy Turvey]

Ed Well done.

Have you actually recovered the bodies?

Whilst we expect little from the Govt / MoD, what I dont understand is why the RAF / CAS have not deployed a recovery team to look for / recover the crew once the wreckage was found?

TT

[Ed Macy]

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission will only investigate and exhume if there is planned disturbance to a crash site (building work, motorways, etc) It doesn’t matter to them that the bodies were being plundered and disturbed regularly. Making the crash site a Heritage Site or having any sort of protection simply won’t work because it can’t be enforced.

Naming and shaming will happen in the report but it's not really a finger pointing session.
Those in the JCCC that responded did so explaining that their hands were tied when it came to their own jurisdiction. There was a fair bit of fobbing off but they really are powerless due to government legislation on the subject.
Questions were asked and the MoD reply was not at all anywhere near truthful.
I’m pretty sure that the government and MoD will have an internal battle about who is at fault but the answers will be clearly presented and easily understood by anyone that reads the evidence in the report.
I couldn’t possibly say more at this moment because these forums are monitored by hacks and we can’t afford to blow it open just yet.

We have recovered an inordinate amount of information and personal effects of the crew. Unfortunately we won’t be drawn on making a statement about the crew until we have the medical reports from the hospital. It would be unprofessional and uncompassionate to mention it on a forum before the evidence we are waiting on has been presented to the relatives.

Thanks for all of your support

Clayton and Ed

[Al R]

These men are our professional ancestors, they subscribed to the same club that we did and we share much with them. They may not be the high profile glorious dead that we are usually minded to think about each November, but they are still our dead.

We spend millions reburying the WW1 dead from Belgium but it strikes me (at the absolute best and at my most charitable) as maladministration – and maladministration of a particularly self-regarding and suspect kind – for the MoD to acknowledge that the dead in one particular area are worthy of its attention when the spotlight is on that particular matter, but to completely ignore the dead when the spotlight is absent, in another.

[Ed Macy]

We concur fully with your words Al R.

Thanks

Clayton and Ed

[family1]

I am all with you on the fact that the relatives where not informed of the crash site and that it is despicable. It seems that others are taking the outcome out of the familys hands. Is it not best after so many years that the remains should NOT be DNA identified. They where all on the plane, they all died, some remains may not been present due to circumstances on board the aircraft then what happens? That family doesn't see thier boy rest in peace. Lay them to rest together in a suitable military site. It is nice to know what happened but maybe making it a heritage site would have been suitable. It really is in the middle of a vast jungle. But it was too late to ask the familys what they wanted once the site had been disturbed.

Also some complete idiot has written an article about what was being said on the aircraft before it crashed. I found it on line..bang out of order, nobody new and the writer did not know the men on board so it is poor taste and very distressing to read when it is totally fabricated.
Perhaps the MOD will learn from their errors and deal with things in a more streamlined way from now on..we shouldn't NEED to have these men home after 60 plus years but we do need them laid to rest and left in peace in a suitable militery fashion. Just my view.

[lauriebe]

Spotted this article in today's New Straits Times:

RAF crew (http://www.nst.com.my/nation/general/raf-crew-s-final-journey-begins-1.155964)

Finally, some form of closure for the families of this crew.

[November4]

The Americans have the right approach with such things.

Paid a visit to the Cambridge American Cemetery (http://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries/cemeteries/ca.php) a couple of weeks ago. Although it was a Sunday, there were 2 members of staff greeting visitors. I got talking to one and when he found out I was ex-RAF he started to tell me the way that bodies were handled and buried. He told me about a recently discovered set of remains and how they were treated in exactly the same way as those from 70 years ago. I won't go into details in public as he doesn't let everyone know but it was very moving and a totally different story to this case.

Finally this crew can rest in peace.

[Lukeafb1]

My family have recently served in the British and U.S. Military and it never ceases to amaze me that we treat (or don't treat) our military dead with the care and consideration which the U.S. military do.

The same attitude applies to our veterans and U.S. veterans. In many respects, U.S. veterans, are still regarded as 'serving' (e.g. may use base BXs wherever they live, may avail themselves of 'A Dollar Down' mortgage etc.). What do we have? Damn all, unless we are a recovering casualty, and how long will medical care be available before recovering casualties are shunted off to the NHS?

As more than one person has said, watch the HBO movie "Taking Chance" if you can. It had me in tears and I don't admit to that very often.

[Halton Brat]

I very much hope that the RAF will send some representation to this burial?

Many thanks to the brown jobs who received the remains tho'.

HB

[lauriebe]

The crew of KL654 were finally laid to rest in the CWGC Cemetery at Cheras Road, Kuala Lumpur this morning.

Final farewell (http://my.news.yahoo.com/photos/final-farewell-67-years-later-photo-041429080.html)

Main - Malaysia - Burial for WW2 air crash victims after 67 years @ Thu Oct 18 2012 (http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/burial-for-ww2-air-crash-victims-after-67-years/)

[glojo]

To see how the Americans do it check out the film "Taking Chance" starring Kevin Bacon, (based on a true story). If it doesn't bring a tear to your eye, nothing will. It is an absolute gem! You cannot beat Hollywood when it comes to talking a good fight but please forgive me if I don't take the bait.

Talk is cheap and this 'We never leave anyone behind' rubbish is a great sound bite but the reality is excreta happens and yes the Americans have previous for leaving behind American soldiers, some alive, some dead.

Regarding our own proud nation then I salute those involved in this repatriation but I will not hold my breath regarding any 'Naming and shaming' as to me government officials make teflon look abrasive. No one will ever be held accountable or be disciplined for this cold blooded, unbelievable denial of what appear to be facts relating to the identity of that aircraft.

But what about the missing Royal Navy sailor, (http://www.defencemanagement.com/news_story.asp?id=20614) he might not have been shot down, or gone missing in action but the bottom line is this serviceman is missing whilst deployed abroad and surely this recovery deserves better?

[ozbiggles]

Beyond belief that a countries government would be so eager to send their people to war, yet years later have a policy to do nothing to pay them proper respect. I didn't think there was much that could make me dispise politicians more.
The reverse of that is the pride the people who achieved giving these men the honour they deserved should feel. You are more than the politicians who made the decisions that bought this situation will ever be.
To the crew , Rest In Peace gentleman knowing people you fought for bought you to a place of peace..

[Topsy Turvey]

"Beyond belief that a countries government would be so eager to send their people to war, yet years later have a policy to do nothing to pay them proper respect."

Lets give the RAF & JCCC and the Govt that funds them some credit. Whilst many believe we should still be looking for our fallen, the defence budget is limited and has many other demands upon it. Extensive efforts were made at the end of both WW1 and WW11 to find the bodies of missing and MBK British personnel.

The fact is now that these brave men have been recovered they have been given a full military funeral overseas and laid to rest in a service conducted by an RAF Padre and the QCS, with a senior diplomat and relatives in attendance. I assume the MoD will have paid for the relatives to attend (They have certainly done so in the past). Given current commitments that is no small undertaking. TT

[ozbiggles]

My beef is not with that part.
Who did the hard work and paid the money to get it to that stage?
There was good evidence once the aircraft wreck was found of who was there. It shouldn't be up to volunteers to retrieve the brave airmen.
I'm sure if we could stamp out the corrupt behaviour of a number of pollies, there would be enough money for this.
I think we both agree the ceremony was worthy.

[bob shayler]

The team of volunteers who recovered the remains of the crew of KL 654 were also instrumental in the recovery of the crew of R.A.F. Dakota KN 630 which crashed in the Malaysian jungle on August 25th 1950 with the loss of 12 passengers and crew. One of these was a local soldier, Air Despatcher Cpl. Phillip Bryant from Lee-on-the-Solent who has now been remembered on the local War Memorial.

The remains of these brave men were finally laid to rest at the Commonwealth Graves at Cheras Cemetery on 15th March 2012. (See link below)

RAF Dakota KN630 (http://www.mhg.mymalaya.com/dakota_kn630.htm)




Cpl. Bryant remembered in this article in the The Evening News, 18th September 2011








http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w421/bobshayler/CplPhillipBryant_zpsb79f40ef.jpg

[West Coast]

Glojo

I suggest you take the bait and watch Taking Chance. It in no way glamorizes war, nor does it lend itself to one side or the other in the debate of should we be there. It's the recollections of the Marine officer who escorts the remains of a young Marine home to rest.
I don't know you so I cant say you wouldn't be disappointed but I've yet to meet anyone who didn't appreciate the movie. Yet to meet someone who didn't come away emotional after it either.