Problems shipping live Pigs in lower deck

[42ongo]

Good day cargo colleagues

Has anyone carried any live pigs in the lower deck of a pax aircraft lately
on a long flt of 12 hours or so

My client does not have many main deck options available short of a long drive to some remote airfield in Europe which is bound to upset the EU types when he shows them the transportation plan

I m being told there were a few incidents of pax flights returning to orgin
due to the heat generated by the pigs setting off the fire alarms and such like

If anybody has any concrete examples of this happening could they kindly share the knowledge

Thanks in advance :ok:

[Fr8Dog]

Have them call Atlas, Kalitta, or Evergreen. If they have a big enough load to justify a 74.

FR8

[AAL]

Fly pigs onlyon dedicated DC-8 freighter, in double well ventilated crates/cases, main deck as cold as possible, fast load and immediate take-off, otherwise dont touch you are going to deliver dead pigs. Pigs dont sweat and build up heat like crazy.

Will also not load on lower deck of pax aircraft, you will never get rid of the stink.

[G&T ice n slice]

This is completely 100% from memory, so is probably utterly wrong

Pigs in the lowerdeck is a definite no-no as the temperature range for pigs is limited and the required ventilation flow is considerable. Given that there is a lot of air re-circulated means that the humans upstairs end up sharing the recirculated air with the pigs, who then write rude letters in to the airline to complain about the smell.

Sorry that doesn't quite read right

We used to carry lots of pigs on the 74M upstairs but I'm not sure if that is still permitted.

Wouldn't have thought that you would be that far from a major hub airport in Europe ???

[theloady]

Hola .. at first ..How many pigs are planned to be loaded?

... maindeck of course...
If you try with some pax airlines ..lower-deck..it will be an hazardous game..you know what i mean exactly?


rgds

[TurningFinals]

Not so sure about the smell part...

I've had to load prawns in the cargo hold of PAX a/c in the past, which smelled really bad.

Never any reports of the smell ending up in the PAX cabin.

TF

[superspotter]

I'm quite sure no scheduled airline will allow the carriage of swine in the lower bellies of any aircraft, period. Not discounting the nature of said beast, the smell alone would preclude such activity:uhoh:
Slightly OTT but at the moment we carry live crabs and live eel fish once a week on the main deck of our A306F from Dhaka to Guangzhou and the polystyrene boxes they pack the eelfish in have air holes punched in the tops. This also allows the sloshing water to escape......after the aircraft has been parked up for a number of hours all shut up in the desert after return to base, well, the smell.........:sad::(

[STN Ramp Rat]

Many years ago I loaded pigs onto a DC10 once that then went tech, we had to phone the caterers to buy some ice and we got 500Kgs in 5Kg bags which was almost the entire stock. The stockmen fed it to the pigs. Apparently they like eating ice when it’s hot. Fortunately the problem was rectified and the aircraft got away.

[42ongo]

My client only has enough for 3 lower deck units(30 head) for this movement so nowhere near enough for a charter sadly

My client did produce evidence of a major carrier who has loaded piggies in the lower deck of a pax aircraft

The aircraft used was a 777-200 and the forward hold was used and supposedly no complaints from anybody

I m was quite tempted to try loading the piggies on the passenger aircraft just to see the outcome

But I think I ll heed the warnings given

tks again

[goma]

:ok:well main deck of DC8 worked in the past,lost about 5% of them as handling agents didnt get them off quick at the final destination so they died,anyhow bacon sanies all around for the crew,remember pigs dont sweat!!!,good luck

[ZFT]

Many years ago an SAA B742/3/4? out of LHR managed to wipe out a consignment of rare pigs after their urine set off the smoke detectors and the halon was discharged. Must have been about 15 years ago IIRC.

[Trackmaster]

Then there was the famous pig incident at the cargo depot of a major Oz airline at Sydney, where a rather smelly prize stud boar bound for NZ was left out in the sun, and suffered a spot of sunburn.
Into the freezer to cool him down, but he was forgotten for a while.
Out into the sun to thaw him a little, followed by a phone call to the owner to come and pick up their unfortunate, departed pig.
The letter to the freight manager from the owner's vet asked for an explanation on how the autopsy turned up a sunburnt pig, with frozen intestines.

[Elliot1]

Sorry to be lecturing someone on my first Post in this Forum.
But Pigs, as any other AVI, are NOT CARGO, and shouldn't be called or considered as such!

Cargolux Airlines for instance, amongst other Airlines, do actually have a check-list for Live Animals. ;)

[Fr8Dog]

Atlas, Kalitta, Evergreen etc. are ALL CARGO AIRLINES. So no matter what is on the main deck it is considered CARGO. Race cars or Race horses. I do not think that the pigs feelings will be hurt if you refer to them as freight or cargo, but next time I have a live animal charter I will ask one of them.

:p

FR8

[theloady]

Eliot1 what kind of problem do you have for the carriage of live animals AVI on all-cargo a/c..oh my god..easy my friend.. Horse,Pig,Cow,elephant,Rhino...no matters...follow the manuals and the procedures and nothing it seems to be so difficoult...or complicated.



peace

[superspotter]

Sorry Elliot, wouldnt want to hurt the little piggies feelings:}

[CargoMatatu]

Jeez, Elliot! :rolleyes:

Anything carrying a fare-paying ticket is a Passenger - i.e. PEOPLE.

Anything else, travelling under an Air Waybil is FREIGHT. Albeit AVI is "Special Cargo", but cargo nonetheless.

:ugh:

[muduckace]

I have carnal (no ****) knowlede of flying pigs. WOA picked up a charter stopping in Caracas for KMIA and the scholars decided that they could maximize revinue by stacking the pigs on top of each other to take advantage of the volume of the aircraft.

The result was about a 50% loss of pig life, the temperature in the cockpit was high enough to where the crew had concidered diversion.

Flying pigs is not good business, loading them in the lower cargo pits may result in a overheat condition depending on equiptment further resulting in a diversion.

Bottom Line....


PIGS DON'T FLY

[oceancrosser]

I believe it mudukace, we flew loads of pigs from Denmark to Calgary with a fuel stop in Iceland, in wintertime, and had temperature problems on the ground on the main deck even in these climates, let a lone in Venezuela.

[AAL]

The average consensus is that pigs are problematic animals to fly and unless you want complications at your destination, are better to avoid.

Also remember that it is often a problem, or not allowed at all, to offload dead animals at most international destinations/airports.

Muduckace is honest enough to share his experience and recommend to avoid. That has been mine also. When the effort goes tits-up nobody, not the shipper, receiving client, insurance believe or realises this peril, and all will blame the airline for negligence.

It is simply just not worth the risk to take the chance. Remember also - "The Swine Flew!"

[MartinCh]

The letter to the freight manager from the owner's vet asked for an explanation on how the autopsy turned up a sunburnt pig, with frozen intestines. Just a visitor to this forum, the topic caught my eye. Truly a gem, this one.

[AAL]

Simple in Africa: "Angaz Bwana!!!" - I dont know Chief !.

[ma11achy]

Pigs in the lowerdeck is a definite no-no as the temperature range for pigs is limited and the required ventilation flow is considerable. Given that there is a lot of air re-circulated means that the humans upstairs end up sharing the recirculated air with the pigs, who then write rude letters in to the airline to complain about the smell.

Who gave the pigs the address?
Student PPL who loved reading this thread and read the above post a little differently.....:}

[airwaygill]

Hi all, can't tell if it's a good idea to fly pigs in lower deck but depending on origin and destination of the consignment u may check with any cargo agent who will offer you a rate for 3 main deck positions with any cargo airline.

Flying pigs on cargo aircraft is no problem, CV recently had a few intercontinental charters full of pigs and the operation was carried out hands down. IATA AVI regulations determin how many pigs can be loaded in a container depending on the shoulder height of the animal. If that rule is followed there will be no problem at all. On modern aircraft such as the 744F the cargo hold carrying the animals can be kept at around 18°C in order to prevent the animals from catching a cold. Just keep in mind that pigs are easily subject to heart attacks and must therefore be handled & transported smoothly and carefully.

cheers

[AAL]

Yeah, keep the sows calm by showing them movies of the studs in the country they going to, and enough leg and shoulder room so that they are not so crowded and squashed up like the SLF.

At their destination they going to will work out the most expensive cost p/kg rate in the world and probably most expensive bacon or ham you've ever eaten.

[altayaara]

an extra problem is that a lot of smaller airfields in the EU , are not certified by the European Union for handling pigs at their airfields.

so even if the carrier wants to take it, it still can give a problem.

also pigs produce a huge amount of methane gas, which is flammable when getting too concentrated.

I agree with most of the guys that most probably only cargo a/c might be a correct solution ( even costing more money)

[42ongo]

We had pretty much decided to kick this into touch based on the opinions and advise provided by fellow pruners but our ramp transportation company or drayage providers to our US colleagues gave us chapter and verse on why they could not transport the pigs from our warehouse to shipside

So the pigs are finally off the menu for us at least in our lower deck of our pax 777s

Keep moving the boxes
cheers for now