Viking Airlines

[Tillymica]

Hi
I was supposed to be flying with Viking Airlines on Sunday 23rd August to Kefalonia (VIK337) @ 15:30. I have just received an email to advise that I am now flying with Thomas Cook (TCX29K) @ 06:00 on 23rd
Anyone have any info please?

[Facts R Us]

Viking don't operate to EFL on Sunday's.

VIK337 (if it existed) would be a Wednesday flight so guess its yet another case of the Tour Operator 'ghosting' flight numbers.

Who did you book with?

[Tillymica]

What does that mean? :uhoh:
I booked through Travel Republic but it then came back with something about Goldtrail Holidays - I am sooooo confused as they (Travel Republic) don't seem to know where I'm going, when, with whom etc etc. :mad: Thanks for your help tho x

[Tillymica]

Hi
Can anyone enlighten me what this means and why they would do it? (sorry if I sound a bit thick, but I am!) :ok:

[toledoashley]

Travel Republic are a travel agent, not a tour operator (they dont have an atol)

[Tillymica]

Oh S**T, are Goldtrail ATOL holders then?

[toledoashley]

Yes, Goldtrail are the tour op.

[Tillymica]

Do you happen to know what this Flight Ghosting is about?

[toledoashley]

Its to do with contracting.

If they cant contract one flight then they change, it was very similar to when excel was around as they had the biggest volume of seats for the small tour op market and if they couldnt charter the flight then they would buy seats on the big '3' (TOM/TCX/MON).

Usually they work on the assuption of VIK and then change if they need to.

[Tillymica]

So the flight with Viking never really existed then?

[toledoashley]

Maybe not.

[Tillymica]

OK, Thanks for your help x

[TSR2]

There has not been a Viking flight VIK337 on any Sunday this summer.

[Tillymica]

So is it in case they do fill it or just to make them look busier? :confused:

[sam1993]

This was indeed a Viking flight at that time but Viking Airlines now send the 737 out to Sweden to operate a flight to Iraq for a Swedish tour operator!

[WHBM]

To explain, tour operators only provisionally book capacity on holiday carriers. If they sell all the seats, that's fine and the arrangements can go ahead. If not then they do not operate, and "consolidate" on other operators. There is a fair amount of commercial discussion around this as you can imagine. It's normally finalised about 6 weeks in advance, 3 weeks is a bit short but probably reflects the time taken for the news to filter down through multiple hands. It's not just low demand either; high demand can mean they sell their own aircraft/seats out and then start shopping around the others.

Broadly speaking the major operators with their integral airlines are more likely to operate as planned, whereas the independent/untied airlines who come and go by the year are more likely to chop and change. It's one of those things where, the further in advance you book, the more likely things are to change. If you go and buy a holiday for next week you can pretty much be certain it will be as stated.

Holiday charter travellers will have noticed that all the different operators tend to go to the same place on the same day, from every departure airport in the UK; if you're say going to Fuerteventura most flights are Wednesday, a few on Saturday, and little on other days. In part this is so they can readily match different combinations of accommodation with different departure points if it all changes over on Wednesday. But it also facilitates fluidity of airline arrangements on the day, and "pushing everyone around".

"Ghost flights" can often be spotted at booking time by :

- Attractive departure times like 09.00 rather than 06.00.
- Departure times at "round" hours.
- Actual airline for the flight not mentioned, just a selection of names shown.

[scottcalvin]

All this is 100% spot on, and has been happening since the 1980's. Often the smaller operators will go to a flight broker who will offer them seats at a certain time throughout the season. This might be:

01 June: 20 Seats
07 June: 30 Seats
01 Sept: 20 Seats etc... etc...

Sometimes the operators will oversell these and other times have capacity and place them back into the market place for other operators to take them. If you read the small print with a tour operato they never guarantee the flight timings as they are charters, they guarantee you will fly on that day but not the timing, so they try and move things. It is ALWAYS a last resort I know thsi first hand, but in a way its naughty but airlines change regular with timings and slots and this is also connected to airports as well. They may be offered a flight time and aircraft then the airport changes its slot as its a charter and the airline may then need to change aircraft or can not supply it so the broker goes to another company.

Its just business, but life. The ONLY way to avoid it is to book with a company using a scheduled carrier, some do offer this but not a lot and its often higher in price, but schedule is that schedule, charter just hops into the available air space!

Hope that helps.

[Tillymica]

Thanks to you all for your help & advice!
I'd rather fly with Thomas Cook than Viking anyway... :D

[Facts R Us]

sam1993This was indeed a Viking flight at that time but Viking Airlines now send the 737 out to Sweden to operate a flight to Iraq for a Swedish tour operator!

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this flight NEVER existed in the Viking programme for this summer. The flight has been ghosted by the Tour Operator, making up flight numbers to suit their sales system.

[Captain Lampshade]

To explain, tour operators only provisionally book capacity on holiday carriers. If they sell all the seats, that's fine and the arrangements can go ahead. If not then they do not operate, and "consolidate" on other operators.

This can happen when an operator has a new programme and they do not know whether it will be successful. However, in the main this is how it works.

Tour operator x has a programme running this summer. They want/need to print brochures for next year in June /July/August. In many cases (Big 2 apart) Charter Airlines have only just started to think about their fleet size, bases and programme and more importantly sschedules are not confirmed until November at the slot conference.

The tour operator has to print flight details in their brochure and therefore bases this on the flights they are either operating this summer or they know have operated.
The flights may or may not operate next year or alternatively the operator may find another flight with more suitable timings / price (remember they have to take a view on what the flight costs will be for next year) and as a result place a disclaimer in their terms and conditions.

Itis not a deliberate attempt to mislead it is just how the market operates.

Travel Republic etc do act in an agents capacity, they do not operate the packages themselves which is why in the above case it turns out that Goldtrail is the operator. The most important thing to remember is that you have to hold an ATOL licence if you sell two or more travel components, one of which is a charter flight.

Whether you would want to fly with Thomas Cook rather than Viking is a personal choice, however passenger feedback regarding Viking's onboard service is very complimentary.

[cloak&dagger]

passenger feedback regarding Viking's onboard service is very complimentary

whilst admittedly not an entirely objective source, a quick straw poll of respondents on the Airline Quality website shows that more than average number of passengers would disagree with this

since there doesn't appear to be any other information/feedback about the Viking onboard service in the 'public domain' that would strongly support your statement; whether true or not, I guess we can assume that it is not coming from an entirely unbiased position either

[wouldhave]

well i can say i am completely unbiased and I flew on Viking for the first time in July.

I would have no hesitation in flying with them again - I do know they have suffered a few delays this year but onboard I was pleased with the service despite the crew being hounded by foreign ground handlers.

In fact I would go as far as to say that the crew were amongst some of the friendliest I have encountered in my many years of flying. The inflight meal was certainly edible and the legroom more than adequate.

Many negative reviews on Viking Airlines were based on their old fleet of McDonnell Douglas aircraft and as these are being phased out rapidly (I believe they only have one or two left) the service level has increased significantly.

I would have no hesitation in booking Viking for any of my clients travelling out on holiday.

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

"well i can say i am completely unbiased and I flew on Viking for the first time in July"

and then ruin it with........

"I would have no hesitation in booking Viking for any of my clients travelling out on holiday"

[wouldhave]

yes i am a travel agent - why should that make me biased towards one airline or another?

It was the first time I flew with them and I was impressed - I have also flown Monarch, Thomson Airways, TCX and many others. At the end of the day if their price is right then I wouldnt hesitate selling them. If they were not good however, then I wouldnt recommend them. This does not make me biased.

Some people on this forum need to get a grip and get off their soap box - everyone has an opinion and are entitled to it whether you like it or not.

[leisurelad]

Well said,

As an agent we have sold them since their main launch this summer and feedback has been very good. Yes they have had a few hiccups along the way but nothing different than Thomson / Monarch etc.

We have a very good relationship with them, they are allways helpful to us and to be honest, if i could book them all day i would be happy as they don't have the red tape you get with the big boys. never have a problem getting hold of them, responses are quick and are a pleasure to deal with. If one of our agents make a slight error, a quick call and 9/10 it is sorted instantly and they dont punish us like Thomas Cook do (who i hate having to deal with).

Looking forward to their expanded flying schedule next year, more new routes for me to sell. Just wish these others were as flexible as they are.

[ReadyToGo]

Viking.. well where do I start.

Having dealt with them at NCL las year, they were a nightmare that made national news. (unscheduled fuel stops, offloading bags by the hundred, 11hr delays). However....

It seems that they have now got their act together, the MD83 is no longer scheduled for a totally unsuitable NCL-HER run. Reports from people who have flown them say that their service is not bad, and comments on their crews are complimentary... however.

They suffer from the same problems of any small-ish carrier. WHen things go wrong, lack of spare aircraft hits them hard. While TCX, MON, etc can adjust schedules to spread the delay/minimise the problem,... VIK just don't have the flexibility, so the knock-on effect is pretty harsh.

In short, their attitude and service is comparable (superior?) to the bigger airlines, their contingency plans in a delay, are bound to be inferior.

Don't believe all reports you read. The travelling public will be quick to rant and criticise, but very slow to compliment. Online reviews are rarely written by people who were satisified. They tend to be written by the exceptionally pleased, and anyone who had even the slightest grievance. Needless to say its pretty obvious which is the bigger group at ANY airline!

RTG!

[Facts R Us]

"They suffer from the same problems of any small-ish carrier. WHen things go wrong, lack of spare aircraft hits them hard. While TCX, MON, etc can adjust schedules to spread the delay/minimise the problem,... VIK just don't have the flexibility, so the knock-on effect is pretty harsh."

RTG - sorry mate, dont know where you get your facts from but Viking have had a standby B737-800 in the fleet since 10 July, so 50% of what you've written above is tripe...

[fjencl]

Does anybody who works for viking know if they are going to have cabin crew based at Bristol for next summer.

Also, what aircraft are they going to have based there ??????

Thanks in advance for any replies
:):):)

[Facts R Us]

BRS = B733 and as its supposed to be based would guess 100% that there will be BRS based CC.

[donkey16v]

:ok:

Just a quick message regarding the poor reviews on Viking. It always seems that people are very fast to post negative reviews but never post good reviews. Up until 2007 i spent 4 years working in the travel industry overseas, most of my time was spent with Mytravel but have also worked for other member of what was then "the big 4" thomas cook and thomson.

I have recently travelled to Sharm with Viking, we were delayed 40 mins outbound and returned just 15 mins behind schedule. The aircraft was clean, staff friendly and ouboard service probably better than most i have came accross before.

Whilst working for Mytravel we were always faced with poor reviews on timings, seat pitch etc and whilst i worked with them i firmly believed we were probably one of the most timely airlines in the business and won several punctuality rewards as well as rewards for outstanding in flight meals.

I had never came accross Viking before this holiday as they were not gracing the britsh skies when i worked in the industry however, people who have booked to travel with them i would say dont panic. They seem a good airline wanting to make a business and also wanting to give the good old british public a choice of who to fly with rather than just the "big 2". If you ask me it simply puts some competition back into a struggling market.

My flight with Viking was less than 2/3 of the price with the big 2 and i firmly believe i got better service than both tcx and tom would ever deliver.

I will certainly be booking Viking again and hopefully this puts some peoples minds at rest.

Well done Viking

:D:D:D:D