Is this wrong?

[VadeR102]

Hi, first post here, so excuse me if i put it in the wrong forum.

About 10-15 years ago, i always saw F-15's every thursday's and Friday's in the RAF Valley Tactical area over Gwynedd N.Wales. Still see them from time to time, but not as much, only passing through, so to speak.

I remember hearing the very distinctive sound of the engines the F-15 makes, so i went out side, which was my routine whenever i heard these jets fly around, which always used to put on a good show.

I remember one time, at the back of my house, i saw a Hawk, been hunted by an F-15, obviously doing simulated dog fight's, the F-15 dwarfing the Hawk as the F-15 was in close trail of the Hawk. Possibly 50-75 metres behind. I estimated the height of these 2 were 300ft AGL. What i saw was unbelievable, and i was gobsmacked. The Hawk pulled up at a very high pitch angle, and the F-15 followed, with its engines roaring. You could clearly see that the F-15 had a HUGE amount of AoA, as it tried to maneuver like the nimble Hawk. As this maneuver was taking place, the 2 aircraft, especailly the F-15 (because of its larger size) appeared to be travelling so slooowwwww. The Hawk even appeared to be flying slow, so you can imagine how slow the F-15 looked.

All this took place, over a Village not directly above, more on the outskirts, so my question is this..

Is this type of flying even legal over a built up area, where such a big aircraft/high AoA/high pitch/low speed, where anything could of happened? Im certain a stall was not to far away, i've never seen a F-15 fly so slow before, let alone with 70-80 degrees pitch and such a high AoA. If it did stall, it would of crushed a few houses for sure.

If you saw what i saw, you would say the Maverick flying was totally irresponsible of the pilots, maybe not the Hawk pilot, but of the F-15's who should of disengaged IMO.

I think this type of flying would be more acceptable during a real war, where its a kill, or be killed situation, but during a training excersise? sheesh.

Thought, saying that, it was a bloody good show, and i wished i could of snapped a few pics!! :ugh:

[diddy1234]

I would have thought that the military could fly where ever they want and do what every they want as long as it does not interfere with any other air traffic.

I have a friend out Newmarket way and he says that there are training exercises near him with lots of Chinook's hovering at tree top heights.
He also has a complaints phone number of the local airbase (posted through his door) but he has never used this.

Apparently his local airbase are quite friendly and will curb their training or even move training exercises when a complaint is made.

[Rainboe]

VadeR102, F15 or Tornados? Also, you 'would have' or 'should have' comes from 'would've' or 'should've'. This 'would of thought' or 'should of broken off' are grammatical howlers that we have to stamp out before they become 'official'!

As to the training...these are the guys that are going to go into harms way and lay their lives on the line for us. If that's how they need to train: low altitude, formation flying, aerobatics.....then fill your boots, guys! Train up as well as you can, and pay no attention to gripers trying to put limits on you for the sake of it! You don't need people who don't know anything of what you have to do trying to set their own idea of limits on you!

We send these guys up into harms way to represent us and our interests, very often with substandard equipment, to do their best. They should be able to train as needed without rubber-necking observers trying to spot any 'transgressions'.

[VadeR102]

I did say F-15's, didn't I? I know this is my third post, but that has nothing to do with my knowledge.

In this area, i have maybe seen a Tornado 10 times, sure if i went to the mach loop, i would see them more. Ive seen F-15's 40-50 times, maybe more, so i definetly know which plane is which when i see one. I love aviation, especially military. have done for over 20 years.

Yes, these people put themselves in harms way for us, yes, they would fight to their deaths if need be, and i do respect them for that, who can't?

What i'm saying is, high attitude/high AoA/slow speed/low attitude is a dangerous situation, oh, did i mention it was gusty weather too? If the F15 had windshear(which was possible), what you think would/could of happened?

I dont think people would be too happy if an F15 dropped out of the sky, squashing several houses killing several people, possibly more, especially if they learnt that their was no mechanical/hydraulic/system/avionics failiures.

Their is a complaints department for a reason, just because they are fighter pilots, and they protect the entire UK, does not mean they can do what the hell they want.

Its the same with law enforcment officers, just because 'they are the law' they think that they can go as fast as they like, just because they want to. We go fast, we get fined, they go fast, oh its ok then.:ok:

Like i said, I do respect pilots, and what they do. All i'm saying is, if you want to fly slow, and do high AoA manuvers, at least do it over open areas, so that if something does happen, they only at leas kill themselves. No need to get the general public involved in the 'excersise'. After all, the public pay for these aircraft.

As far as my grammer goes, does not bother me.

[Bushfiva]

Nimby posts on PPRuNe, awaits accolades for spotting dangerous flying and knowing what 300 feet AGL looks like. Good luck.

[saman]

Vade,

Clearly with misused apostrophes, lower case "i", "their" in place of "there", commas next to "and", never mind the content of your text - as best as I understand it - your "gammEr" clearly does not bother you. Well done for not writing "bovver"!

Might I suggest that a certain level of written English helps make one's point clearly and helps others understand about what one is talking?

[Topslide6]

As far as my grammer goes, does not bother me.

How about your spelling then? It's 'grammar' by the way.

[11Fan]

P: WHAT DO YOU WANT?
V: Well, I was told outside that...
P: Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!
V: What?
P: Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!
V: Look, I CAME HERE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT A LOW FLYING AIRCRAFT, I'm not going to just stand...!!
P: OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.
V: Oh, I see, well, that explains it.
P: Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.
V: Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.
P: Not at all.
V: Thank You.
P: (Under his breath) Stupid git!!

[VadeR102]

seems to me like everybody just wants to fight. Not like i said anything bad in my posts is it? Or, is this a welcoming all new chaps get when they come here?

Only person that answered in a respectful manner was diddy.

People also got to rememember that not everybody has the same skills, for all you lot know (or dont) i may have fu:mad:ing learning disabilities, but what the fcuk do you lot care?

[11Fan]

OK Lads, he's passed the initiation. He finally used a http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif in his post.

Now, back to your original question. What was it again?

[Davidsoffice]

Military aircraft do have a need to practice flying to the edge of their limitations and some of it may be near or over hamlets or small villages, perhaps these aren't considered 'built up areas'. All flying, though, in peace time is performed under strict rules with regard to height/altitude and location. Some of it may look hairy to the bystander as you don't normally see aircraft in that situation.
In my opinion, the best aircraft to watch flying around the hills is the A-10, unfortunately there aren't the same numbers around these days.

[Rainboe]

Vade, for someone new, you are posting up an extraordinary amount of total garbage. Pilots get 20,000 Xrays/year worth of radiation? Do you know what you are talking about rather than yapping what 'you heard on a Discovery program' (or think you did). What sort of Xrays? Dental? Chest Xrays for pilots were abandoned years ago as it was decided we got enough radiation without unnecessary chest Xrays every year or so that produced no tangible benefit. And you ask why you get bitten when you 'have said nothing wrong'? Read your invective against military training above! These guys will go face an enemy so critical individuals like you can sleep safe in your bed. I want them to go fight with the best training of whatever sort they want to do. Military aeroplanes rarely drop out of the sky, and if they do it is usually on some Welsh or Scottish hillside. Just let them go prepare themselves as they see fit and you keep plane spotting, but stop meddling where you have no understanding or expertise in assessing danger! Far better people than you can handle this who know what they are looking at!

[VadeR102]

As for the x-rays post, that is not something i put together, it is what was in the documentary about chernobyl. And i do not think. Im sure it just said x-rays, and not a particular type.

This was meant to be a question "Is this wrong?" looks like a question to me.

Sure i went into details of what i saw, and i gave my opinion. I am allowed to give my opinion, wether im right or wrong. You gave your's i gave mine, someone else gave theirs. Most people that replied just gave garbage back. It was all intended to be a question, i wanted to find out if this type of flying is legal or not. Jets fly around here all day every day, but, what happened that day, was the first, and last time it happened. To my knowledge.

Dont bovver insulting my grammer, as its almost 100% certain to be wrong :p

[west lakes]

From another place posted early July

2xharriers and 2xhawks dogfighting over and around Egremont at 4.15 today absolutley awesome!

saw two C130s head along Bass Lake towards Keswick between 23:30 and 23:45

Well you don't want to live up here then! Biggest problem - I missed them


and if they do it is usually on some Welsh or Scottish hillside.
And naughty Rainboe. forgetting Cumbrian Hillsides

[PPRuNe Pop]

A few good posts, the rest of little consequence the latter WIN!

The thread is closed.