Question about electronic devices during take-off/landing

[rgbrock1]

Hi.

My question relates to electronic devices on board such as iPods, cell phones, etc.
How badly do they actually interfere with an aircraft's navigation, communications and other systems? The reason I ask is because on a recent flight my wife and I took, a passenger was talking on his cell phone/umbilical chord during take-off even though he had been repeatedly told by the FAs to turn it off. It was a bit disconcerting for me having witnessed the entire exchange between the moron and the flight crew. He only turned it off after I told him, in no uncertain words, that if he didn't turn it off I would embed it so far up his butt that it would require surgery to have it removed.
I'm just wondering how serious an issue this is as related to flight safety and operations.

Thanks.

[Bealzebub]

Who knows? The honest answer is, it is hard to tell.

Here at home, my cellphone interferes with my land line in close proximity. Portable electronic equipment sometimes interferes with hard wired appliances, and ariel reception appliances. My teenage children cannot hear my summonses and instructions, because their personal apparatus is plugged directly into their ears.

Therein lies most of the problem. Aircraft have their own electronic architecture, which is tested and designed to avoid interference from other onboard equipment. This design gives consideration to the location of external aerials and their proximity to transmission wiring of related and unrelated systems. Items brought on board become a variable. In some cases it is, in fact, or by precaution safer, not to have these items operating in any capacity during the more critical phases of a flight, normally take off and landing. Usually items that are otherwise permitted and deemed as very low risk, are required to be switched off during the initial and final phases of a flight.

From a safety aspect, it is also vital that passengers and crew are able to communicate effectively, quickly and unimpeded during these same important phases of flight. Personal equipment that might impede this requirement is also required to be switched off. Similarly, equipment that distracts other passengers would only aggrevate that situation. In addition, certain equipment might give rise to security concerns that are easily circumvented by the equipments prohibition of use.

Whilst there seems to be endless debate on various items of personal electronic equipment, and a lot of confusion surrounding what is and is not permitted, there is no doubt that some of this equipment does cause distraction and possible adverse effect. Most pilots (including myself) have had cellphone signal aquisition "blips" running through their headphones due to a nearby phone being switched on when it shouldn't be. Not all electronic interference is predictable or fully understood, and where any doubt or concern exists, the safest and simplest solution is to switch it off.

Captains and any of the crew (by virtue of the Commanders authority,) can require compliance with the published instructions, or any other instruction they decide is important for the safe and regular conduct of the flight. They also have the statutory right to enforce that instruction. That right is accepted and acknowledged by the passenger, by virtue of the conditions of carriage that they agree to when purchasing their ticket.

[rgbrock1]

@Bealzebub,

Interesting. So it is, in essence, an unknown. But I do agree. Better to err on the side of caution where passenger electronics are concerned. So as a pilot what would you recommend be done when someone refuses to turn off their electronic device even after being told to do so, repeatedly, by cabin crew?
Thanks for the detailed answer.

[BOAC]

I would hope rgb was sittng nearby firstly, as his solution was perfect:). Short of crew violence, the main remedy for crew is to ensure the pax is 'blacklisted' and is not allowed to fly with that airline again. Technically the pax has breached the law (in the UK, anyway) and so could be charged, but I don't think that would happen.

[Bealzebub]

If they refuse to comply with my instruction, the aircraft would return to the gate and they would be handed over to the police with a complaint that the offender had violated the relevant section of the air navigation order. The subsequent action would be a police/CPS matter. Any civil claim for breach of contract and resultant damages would be a matter for the company to pursue in its absolute discretion.

If the flight was en-route, then the same action would likely be initiated at the destination airport. If the situation was ever deemed to be serious enough a diversion might also be considered. In reality, the very few real offenders, do comply without testing these remedies to their ultimate conclusion.

As BOAC has pointed out, it is helpful that a fellow passenger also points out the transgression. Some years ago I used to fly to the Capital city of a certain mediterranean country, many of whose citizens seemed obsessed with switching on their cellphones as soon as they started to receive signals on the approach. Not only was this unlawful, but it was very distracting as the interference it caused to ATC reception in our headphones, was potentially dangerous. One thing I did find useful, was a polite reminder via the PA system prior to the descent, that cellphones should remain switched off, and that as I understood not everybody spoke English as a first language, I would be most appreciative if passengers would be kind enough to remind other passengers in their own language, if they noticed anybody failing to observe this requirement. That usually worked well!

[Intruder]

The applicable FAA regulation is 121.306.

Note that the FAA explicitly leaves it to the certificate holder (airline) to determine what portable electronic devices are allowed to be used, and the PIC cannot override that determination.

So, if the PIC is made aware of such use, he is obligated to take action. If I were the PIC, I would agree with Bealzebub and have the offender removed and charged with violation of 121.306 and 121.586(a)(2)(i) (compliance with notice requirements). I can ONLY assume that such a passenger will continue to refuse to obey Crewmembers' instructions.

[rgbrock1]

@intruder:

That is exactly what happened on the flight the wife and I were on. The PA repeatedly asked the "offender" (moron is more descriptive) to "please turn off your cell phone sir". in the last exchange between the two he uttered a few unpleasant profanities at her and did his best to intimidate her. She then went back to her seat. (Why she did this and did not request assistance remains an enigma. But she did return to her seat immediately after the "flight attendants please take your seats...." announcement from up front.) This is when I decided to inform
Mr. Butthole where his cell phone was going to wind up if he didn't shut it off. Nothing further was said to him about the issue for the remainder of the flight by the cabin crew. (Mysteriously, though, I received several bottles of Red Wine "on the house" for the remainder of the flight!)

[radiosutch]

I suppose one should ask what execatly is deemed to be electronic equipment? Clearly cabin crew think noise cancelling ear plugs are illegal as they ask you to remove them but what about a camera? or a video camera? If the number of You Tube videos are anything to go by cameras are widely used on take off and landing.

[spannersatcx]

You take out earphones on takeoff and landing, so you are able to hear the instructions to evacuate etc.....

[marlowe]

As Spanner says the most important reason for removing and switching off equipment is so that in an evacuation everybody hears the commands , I would not want to be sat in a window seat with someone outside of me with a set of noise canceling headphones on. But of course in this self centered world who cares about fellow passengers?

[raffele]

If you ask a captain this question, he/she will tell you that they are able to tell when someone's left their mobile phone switched on as it does cause interference, particularly when the offending item is near one of the antenna on the top of the fuselage (around row 8-10 I believe was mentioned once)

[G SXTY]

We had one character a while back who simply had to use his laptop while we taxied out. In row 1 of all places, directly opposite the SCCM. On being asked to turn it off, he then argued the toss about it "not transmitting", "it's perfectly safe", etc etc.

He was then told that if it was not switched off immediately, the captain would be advised, we would be returning to the gate and he would be offloaded. He turned it off.

Bealzebub is quite right, the safest best is just to have everything turned off - transmitting or not. At the very least, headsets, game boys, ipods etc are a distraction during take off and landing, when the cabin crew really should have everyone's full attention.

Occasionally I've forgotten to switch off my mobile phone, but have never noticed any effect on the aircraft systems, other than interference in my headset or an intimate buzzing in my trouser pocket as it acquires a signal at about 1,000' on final. Which is kind of distracting, but in a nice way. ;)

[Intruder]

I suppose one should ask what execatly is deemed to be electronic equipment? Clearly cabin crew think noise cancelling ear plugs are illegal as they ask you to remove them but what about a camera? or a video camera? If the number of You Tube videos are anything to go by cameras are widely used on take off and landing.
The description given on several airlines in the briefing is perfectly simple and applicable: If it has an On/Off switch, turn it Off!

I don't want to be the one with a video camera embedded in the back of my head during a rejected takeoff... If someone wants Youtube fame, he can have it as the subject of someone else filming him being escorted off by the police.

[NSEU]

I don't want to be the one with a video camera embedded in the back of my head during a rejected takeoff...

Good point. Rejected takeoffs usually don't include any kind of announcement and the deceleration can be so severe as to cause pain (because of the increased body weight on seatbelts).
How can you assume the brace position when you have a weighty camera in your hand? If you let it go, it becomes a lethal weapon or a trip hazard during an evacuation.

[al446]

In my case I usually carry my own IFE and produce it ASAP when seated, it is not turned off at any point and only returned to hand luggage on arrival, I may occasionally glance away eg to observe safety demo. I have no need to unplug headphones but can still hear voices clearly. I hope I do not disturb any other pax by the gentle turning of pages.

[Nicholas49]

Just to pick up on the point made above about blips being audible in pilots' headsets...

It must be fair to assume that on most flights there are a handful of mobile phones not switched off. I am always mindful to turn mine off, but there have been ocassions when I have only just remembered in time. I imagine, therefore, that some people forget and there are a few mobiles 'on' in the overhead lockers.

My question is what do you (flight crew) do if you experience interference through your headset? I have never heard a PA asking for passengers to double-check their phones.

PS Bealzebub, the technique used by a BA captain on a flight last year when a 'VIP' just had to call his wife to say we'd landed at LHR while still exiting the runway was to stop the aircraft on the taxiway and explain to everyone on board what we were waiting for. The guy turned it off after that PA!