Vote for the Greatest RAF fighter Jet/ see the new RAF Benevolent Fund microsite

[Park82]

Here at the RAF Benevolent Fund (RAFBF) we have produced a special new microsite to celebrate our 90th anniversary. The site is called "90 Faces of the RAFBF" and can be viewed at:

www.rafbf90.org.uk (http://www.rafbf90.org.uk)

To celebrate our 90 years of work since being established by Lord Trenchard in 1919, our new site features 90 stories about our beneficiaries, history, fundraisers and supporters. If you visit you can listen to Winston Churchill's famous 1951 radio broadcast on behalf of the RAFBF, watch videos of beneficiaries and serving personnel describe how we help, learn about the enormous support we enjoy among the RAF family and vote in our poll:

Vote for the greatest RAF Jet

We are running a poll to decide what was the greatest post-WW2 fighter jet - at the moment the English Electric Lightning is pulling way ahead, so cast your vote and let us know what you think!

[chiglet]

Surprises me that the Harrier is so close to the Lightning....as a Fighter, when the Hunter lags behind.....:confused:

[MightyGem]

The Hunter's now in second place. You must have got a few voters voting, Chiglet.

[harrier]

The Lightning was a beast of an aircraft to work on. Brute power and nothing lovely about it. Now the Hunter was/is a mose graceful looking aircraft. We still see them both over the skys in Cape Town.

[syncro_single]

Who made up that list, yet again the Buccaneer has been overlooked, thats where my vote would have gone.

[BOAC]

....er - on my screen it says 'Fighter Jet'. not 'Bomber'

[Wholigan]

Well said BOAC - - put those damned bomber folks back in their box mate!! ;)

[Wader2]

And they missed some out. Swift, Sabre, Javelin, Spitfire, Hornet, Brigand

[muppetofthenorth]

what was the greatest post-WW2 fighter jet


And they missed some out. Swift, Sabre, Javelin, Spitfire, Hornet, Brigand


Er...?:confused:

Are there some little known variants of these aircraft that nobody talks about...?

[goudie]

In it's day, despite it's limitations the Hunter looked the part as a fighter aircraft. I always thought the Lightning role was more interceptor than fighter.
Assuming there's a difference.
Anyway the Hunter gets my vote.

[Squirrel 41]

And the F3 is more capable than any of the above.... gets my (not entirely unbiased!) vote!

S41

[Wader2]

Muppet,

Clearly the answer is yes. The period was POST-WW2, it didn't say built after WW2.

The Spitfire was active in Palestine and indeed got shot down.

The Hornet was in Malaya in the 50s but the glue tended to melt.

The Swift was built as a fighter.

The Brigand was a radar trainer so may not really be classed as a fighter.

I am reminded about the Tempest.

Of course the Javelin was our main night fighter up to 1968.

and the F86 to 1956.

[Wholigan]

Wader2

I believe the point that Muppet is making with his italicised words is that the Spitfire, Hornet and Brigand ain't jets!!!

[muppetofthenorth]

Wader :rolleyes:

Wholigan, thanks:D

[MAINJAFAD]

Wader has a point though, yes the Harrier and the Hawk have been used as 'Fighters' by the RAF, However, they were not procured for that role. As for the jet-powered aircraft that Wader listed, the Sabre, Swift and Javelin were bought and used as pure fighters (and you could add the Venom NF's) to that list. I think you will find that the aircraft listed are those that are in the museum at Hendon (with the exception of the Hawk).

[Lightning Mate]

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/56_Loop640.jpg

[LateArmLive]

I take it the aircraft doesn't have to have done anything Operationally useful in it's service life? :ok:

[labrador pup]

Hunter now in front :ok:

[Lightning Mate]

LateArmLive

"I take it the aircraft doesn't have to have done anything Operationally useful in it's service life?"

labrador pup

"Hunter now in front"

I have flown both, so may I kindly ask you how many hours you both have on these types?

If the answer is zero, then please go away!

LM

[goudie]

If the answer is zero, then please go away!


Does, not having flown these types, disqualify one from voting or passing comment?
Just seeking clarification

[LateArmLive]

If the answer is zero, then please go away!

Is that the sound of an old lady crying I hear? ;)

[The B Word]

Lightning Mate - 2 can play at that game! :ok:

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/photos/4/5/9/1307954.jpg

[endplay]

B Word.

Why is only one of them on fire?

[foldingwings]

endplay,
'Cos the dope in the left one loosed off all his missiles at him!
Foldie

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Interesting that the exam question is; "Vote for the Greatest RAF fighter Jet". Totally disqualifies the Vulcan and Buckbox (and, OK, Canberra).

Observation: the Tornado 3 is streets ahead. In its day, the hunter was tops (no 111 pun intended). If only the Sea Vixen had been chosen and not the Javelin.

[Lightning Mate]

B Word,

That has to be one of the greatest photos of all time.

[gileraguy]

Harrier would have to have the most kills, surely?

[MACH2NUMBER]

The wording of the question makes it impossible to vote objectively. Having flown Hunter, Lightning, F4, F15 and F3 (F15 is unfortunately disqualified), I can only say that all had their virtues in different decades. If the question was what was the most enjoyable to fly, then for me, the Lightning just outshades the Hunter.

[parabellum]

Which one was used effectively in active service? I saw plenty of Hunters in Aden but not a single Lightning. Did the Lightning have a ground attack capability? The Javelin did sterling service in the far east, did the Lightnings at Tengha see active service? My vote goes to the Hunter.

[cornish-stormrider]

Has that photo of the F3 been Photoshopped?

My suspicions are raised on three counts:

1, there are two airframes in the air at any one time
2, they are far too clean to be real F3's
3, that shot implies performance - F3's don't do performance. Noise yes, but not performance.

It would still get my vote - but only as I'm too much of a smally to have worked on 'tooms or frightening and one must be loyal to ones chariot. besides, the wife still looks mighty fine in bed wearing my sqn rugby top :ok::ok:

[The B Word]

that shot implies performance - F3's don't do performance. Noise yes, but not performance.


My personal best in F3 was M2.15 and 830kts at low level - if that's not performance then I don't know what is!!!

Granted, the Lightning would outstrip F3 at medium and high-level but for weapon system / numbers / capability, loiter, low level enduring dash (don't forget that F3 was designed to counter Blackjack, Fencer and Backfire) and versatility, the F3 wins hands down.

No, it isn't photoshopped.

The B Word

[Griz]

But it is tilted to give the impression of being vertical:ok:

[chiglet]

But it is tilted to give the impression of being vertical

Just the entry into a "Stall Turn" :ok:
ps, I prefer the "Blue Circle Airways" version....Aesthetically speaking, of course

[maxburner]

Great photo B Word (any relation the THE B Word?) And with a war load the Lightning could never have dreamed of. I'm torn between the F4 and the F3 for my vote. Who am I kidding - the F4 gets it.

[ARINC]

Limited to night time CAP in GW1

BVR good, Radar good, Speed good, daylight up close... BAD. At least this was the gist from an in theatre brief.

[Lightning Mate]

B Word,

"My personal best in F3 was M2.15 and 830kts at low level"

Am I reading the word and incorrectly? WTFO?

MACH2NUMBER,

Would I know you?

LM

[petermcleland]

Hunter FGA9 for me...I notice that the Hunter has moved into the lead now :)

http://www.petermcleland.com/misc/myhunter9.jpg

[Wholigan]

Aaaaah - the steed of my next door neighbour here. 208 Sqn in Bahrein methinks.

[petermcleland]

"Aaaaah - the steed of my next door neighbour here. 208 Sqn in Bahrein methinks."

Well yes, often there or Aden or Kuwait but that pic was taken at Nairobi, Embakazi Airport where we were based (Eastleigh was too short for Hunters) in 1960 :)

[The B Word]

Lightning Mate...of course you know me :ok:

http://www.bagnallvillage.com/Photographs/AnthonyBagnall.jpg

In answer to your Q

"My personal best in F3 was M2.15 and 830kts at low level"

Am I reading the word and incorrectly? WTFO?


M2.15 was at mid block 4 - doing the "rollercoaster ride" - 830 was down South at 250ft with the old skyslugs hanging underneath and Limas on the wings (there was a guy in a clean jet chasing me down as well :eek:).

You probably do know me, but I don't do internet dating ;)

The B Word

[Wholigan]

Sorry petermcleland - I misread the name on the side. I was in Bahrein from 68 to 71, so a bit after your time on 208.

;)

[Ali Barber]

Having flown Hunter, Lightning (last serving pilot to do so I'm told) and F3, the F3 only came good after I left it. The Hunter was great fun, but the Lightning more so. When the F3 (F2 originally) came into service, it's greatest capabilities were that it was very quiet and it stopped really well - not the most desirable of traits in a fighter (almost forgot the full and comprehensive ECM suite, comparable with any modern day fighter).

The Lightning was never developed in the RAF. In Saudi and Kuwait it could carry SNEB (forerunner of CRV-7) and bombs, plus the dreaded antiquated AAMs of the time. When we brought them back from Saudi, they were offered in 4 x AIM-9 fit to anyone who was interested. If we had that capability when the Lightning was in Service, maybe we wouldn't have said Lightning as the preferred choice in peacetime, F-4 for war!

Regarding the short range of the Lightning, most sorties were around an hour, some a bit more, some a bit less; not that different from Harrier and Jag at the time. Did a PD from Binbrook to Gutersloh and back with a few circuits to "shine my arse" before the vertical departure; and did a couple of 7-8 hour QRA launches, admittedly with a lot of AAR, but that was what it was there for.

Regarding the vertical shot of the F-3s, nice pic - what height was it taken? I've only ever been "VFR on top" in a Lightning!

[petermcleland]

"Sorry petermcleland - I misread the name on the side. I was in Bahrein from 68 to 71, so a bit after your time on 208."

Oh yes...XE609 "E" had burned to death at Khormaksar sometime before then, about 1966 I think. I was "tourex" in the middle of the Kuwait fracas in 1961 and came home in August and my last flight in XE609 was 3rd Aug 61 on "Aerobatics, Ahmadi, Magwa area".

[Samuel]

petermcleland , who was it bent "Juliet's" leg at Embakasi? I was there!

Was the Javelin really, really a fighter? Wasn't it restricted on some aerobatics?

[Lightning Mate]

Good morning B Word.

Didn't you do well!

We used to get good time out of the F3 (Lightning that is) by shutting one down at low level. Still good for 550+ on one in dry power.

I take it that the Frightening is still winning....

LM

[Wader2]

Harrier would have to have the most kills, surely?

I confess to not reading the question properly but it is clear I am not alone. As far as I am aware, the SHAR was never in the RAF inventory :)

However when it comes to willy waving - which was more opertational etc:

The Javelin of course did sterling service in homeland defence but was also deployed to Zambia in case Rhodesia got too upity and also to Malaysia in case Sukarrno did likewise. The Hunter was deployed to Cyprus in the fighter role together with Meteor NF14 and later to Gibraltar in the AD role as was the F4 a decade later. True the Hunter was also employed in Aden but in the GA role and the Lightning to the Far East but after the event.

This would appear to put the Javelin ahead of the Lightning on the operational stakes.

[Lightning Mate]

Great thread this one!

[GeeRam]

Having flown Hunter, Lightning (last serving pilot to do so I'm told) and F3, the F3 only came good after I left it.

Hmmmm.....that sort of narrows it down to one of two people then and the 30th June 1988 :E
Unless of course we are talking about a certain sortie from Warton towards the end of 1992 :ok:

[ian16th]

Wader2

Lightnings were also deployed to Cyprus, (Akrotiri) in '64, to calm down the Turkish Air Force.

The Turks beat up Limassol with F-100's, by the time the Javelins from Nicosia were scrambled, the F-100's were back in Turkey.

Within 1 week, 111Sqdn arrived at Akrotiri.

[Audax]

Ali B, last serving person to fly the Lightning, not so I'm afraid.

I know of 2 pilots who flew the beast, maybe not in what you might term the main stream RAF but both still commissioned and fully paid by the Service. Both started their first tours in 69/70 and one is still flying to this day.

Anyway, the Lightning gets my vote any day!

[The B Word]

Ali Barber

last serving pilot to do so I'm told

Not so Sir, there is of course you in Muscat (I worked out you must be the chap who was on the Big Breakfast many years ago :ok:), but there is also the Boss of the Low Flying Cell (the one that has seen it, done it, ticked it off :ok:). The only other guy I know retired as a 1star last year. Then there are the Air Marshals that never retire at all!!!

The B Word

[GeeRam]

there is also the Boss of the Low Flying Cell (the one that has seen it, done it, ticked it off ). The only other guy I know retired as a 1star last year. Then there are the Air Marshals that never retire at all!!!

As far as I'm aware the person who blagged with serious string pulling, the distinction of being the last 'serving' RAF pilot to fly a 'military' flight of a 'military' Lightning also blagged the last ever flight of a RAF F-4 ;)

[Park82]

This is just to say thanks so much for all your discussion and votes over the past week, it's been great to read your comments.

It's been incredible to see the Hunter come back in this poll.

Originally the Lightning was a good fifty votes ahead, then suddenly, having consulted Pprune, we saw an enormous surge in votes for the Hunter, leaving it 54 votes ahead of the Lightning.

Perhaps the biggest fight left now is now for third place, with the Phantom, Tornado and Harrier all slugging it out.

We've been surprised by the lack of votes for the Gloster Meteor - thought this would pick up some votes by virtue of being the allies' first operational jet fighter? Obviously outclassed by Mig15 and F86 Sabre in Korea, but should that count against it?

We're going to run the poll until September 7th, when we will release the final results, so please do get your vote cast if you haven't already, by visiting:

www.rafbf90.org.uk (http://www.rafbf90.org.uk)

Once again, thanks for all your comments.

[petermcleland]

"petermcleland , who was it bent "Juliet's" leg at Embakasi? I was there!"

Hey Samuel, you will have to explain that one...I flew "Juliet" XF376 a few times at Stradishall in UK before we flew the FGA9s out to Nairobi, but my logbook does not show a flight in "J" in Kenya at all!!???

[Samuel]

Err...Peter, I didn't mean to suggest it was you!:D

Juliet hit a landing light at Embakasi on landing, causing minor damage to the starboard undercarriage leg. Late 1960-ish? I have an excellent model made by my son of that aircraft, which later became part of 208/8 at Khormaksar and, I heard, was still flying in private hands in the UK. Off topic, I know...sorry!

I've never met anyone who disliked the Hunter in any way! The FGA9 in New Zealand is airworthy, but doesn't fly due to costs/lack of sponsorship

[The B Word]

Back to the top...

I've also noted that the standings are Hunter 1st, Lightning 2nd, Tornado 3rd :eek:, Phantom (Jehovah!) 4th, Harrier 5th, Meteor 6th, Vampire 7th and Hawk 8th.

When it comes to Harrier I guess they mean Sea Harrier (SHAR) - not in RAF service? Furthermore, for the Hawk, I guess they mean the Hawk 200 single seater with an air-air radar - not in RAF service?

Surprised about the "meatbox" though - it was in service during WWII in 1944 recording its 1st kills against V1s on 4 Aug 1944. So I don't see why it is in a poll for "post-war fighter" jets in the first place (and the Harrier and Hawk!)?

Anyway, plenty more voting to be done before 7 Sep 09 - come on you lot, get clicking!

The B Word

[newt]

Guys

Might I suggest that there are more ex Hunter pilots around then ex Lighning pilots. Therefore, the poll results may be suspect!

For me the Hunter was OK but it was only supersonic in a dive with the flaps down! The Lightning could do it with the airbrakes extended in level flight!

No contest!

[Wholigan]

flaps down?? FLAPS DOWN?????

Have you gone mad newt??????

Don't answer that! :E;)

[larssnowpharter]

One wonders why the Sabre never made the list. Perhaps because not 'made in UK'?

[nipva]

Might I suggest that there are more ex Hunter pilots around then ex Lighning pilots. Therefore, the poll results may be suspect!

Perhaps those that flew both could show their preference. For me (6 years on both) nothing can beat the sheer exhilaration of the Lightning's out and out performance but the Hunter had character plus the added joy of being able to fly al fresco.
The F4, although extremely capable, was certainly not endearing and felt cumbersome compared to the Hunter and Lightning. Moreover the cockpit visibilty was not great. As for the F3, I found it bland in the extreme.
Now the Gnat with guns......

[jindabyne]

Beat me to it RJ! (what you doin' on your keyboard at that time?!). I too shall examine your sanity - in December - newt!! And what's so special about going supersonic anyway? (Especially when you ran out of juice in a few seconds).

the Hunter was also employed in Aden but in the GA role

Small correction Wader2. In Aden, the Hunter was employed in the DFGA role. The DF bit to counter the threat of Nasser's Migs based in the Yemen - I once met one, but it ran off over the border; also the reason for detaching the aircraft to up-country Beihan.

Oh, and all this talk of pilot numbers is simply a case of having a whinge in the face of inevitable defeat ------

[Wholigan]

Aaaaaah but jindabyne the most important letter in DFGA was the D!!!

I felt betrayed when they first started making me fly at night!!!! I joined a D FGA outfit!!

:E;)

[ArthurR]

jindabyne, I seem to remember a ground attack, by hunters, on a fort that had held rebels, only to find when the attack started, British ground forces had allready retaken the fort. Not sure if anyone was hurt, memory fails me.

[ArthurR]

Wholigan, The Omani Air Force, decided to do some night flying, Hunters that is, I was on late shift, normally we finished early, when all tthe line a/c where put to bed, except on Q then it was at 6PM, anyway I had to checck the nav lights, never normally used. Yes I know but it was more a flying club. anyway a couple of a/c their lights didn't work, all screws rusted in, would have had to drill them out, they decided that would take too long, so the flew with torches strapped behind the Ejection seats.

[petermcleland]

SAMUEL...
"Juliet hit a landing light at Embakasi on landing, causing minor damage to the starboard undercarriage leg. Late 1960-ish? I have an excellent model made by my son of that aircraft, which later became part of 208/8 at Khormaksar and, I heard, was still flying in private hands in the UK. Off topic, I know...sorry!

I've never met anyone who disliked the Hunter in any way! The FGA9 in New Zealand is airworthy, but doesn't fly due to costs/lack of sponsorship"

Thanks for the info Samuel...It has created a bit of a mystery for me as I was one of the leaders who flew the Hunter FGA9s out from Stradishall to Nairobi and I have been busy creating Stradishall in FS9 with our Hunters and I've been getting it ready for a simulation of that flight on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd of June next year 2010...This will be the 50th anniversary of the flight. As I said, my logbook reveals a flight or two in "J" at Stradishall only...The flight out to Nairobi was in three four ship formations and that equals twelve aircraft. My logbook shows many flights based at Nairobi, Aden, Kuwait etc. in each of the twelve aircraft, but there is no "J". If "J" was really there then that would be 13 aircraft on that epic flight out to Kenya from Stradishall?

However, I do remember that on our actual arrival at Embakazi "Oscar" XE647 had a main U/C leg collapse its oleo and it taxied in all lopsided...It remained leaning over like that for many months while we waited for spare parts to arrive from UK. Are you sure that you are not thinking of "Oscar" as we did not seem to have a "Juliette" in Kenya?

On the Lightning versus Hunter issue...I finished my R.A.F. service as a Lightning Simulator Instructor on the Mark 2 LSU at Leconfield but I only flew in the two seater version from Middleton St. George so I don't really qualify as "Flying Both" but I certainly preferred the Hunter and flew many Solo Aerobatic Displays in it and many Formation Aerobatic displays as number 4 in the B.F.A.P. Aeroes Team. I thought the FGA9 was a superb aircraft in all respects and a remarkable transformation from the rather unsatisfactory Hunter F1s that I flew at Pembrey.

BTW I had a look round that FGA9 at Ardmore some years ago and thought it looked in pretty good nick.

[BEagle]

flaps down?? FLAPS DOWN?????

Have you gone mad newt??????

Even a simple 4FTS / 234 Sqn / 58 Sqn pilot like me remembered that to leave any flap selected above M0.9 would inevitably lead to a terminal, unrecoverable dive due to elevator hydrobooster jack stall...

Those excellent QFIs at Valley and Brawdy told us that, if you were in a high speed dive and the jet didn't seem to want to recover, first thing was to check flaps were at zero. Too easy during a tailchase to leave them at 23 and set off downwards....:eek:

Best ever Hunter for fun? As Jindabyne will probably agree, the 4FTS 'GT6' model...:ok:

[jindabyne]

BEags: As they say in F1, for sure!! :)

Arthur: Can't recall, but there might be something on this very informative and interesting site - Radfan and the Hawker Hunter (http://www.radfanhunters.co.uk)

[Lightning Mate]

nipva

"For me (6 years on both) nothing can beat the sheer exhilaration of the Lightning's out and out performance but the Hunter had character plus the added joy of being able to fly al fresco."

Exactly..

[The B Word]

nipva

"For me (6 years on both) nothing can beat the sheer exhilaration of the Lightning's out and out performance but the Hunter had character plus the added joy of being able to fly al fresco."

Exactly..

So, I get it, "horses for courses"...

At present we have in the poll:

No1 Lightning, massive thrust to weight and great top end but no SA, fuel and puny weapons.

No2 Hunter, al-fresco flying with a beautiful blue note at high speed but definately low SA and just a gun.

No3 Tornado, second to none at low-level chase down and stacks of weapons matched to a good radar (eventually!) but not enough performance to pull the skin off a rice pudding at medium to high level.

No4 Phantom, great multi-role sea fighter but with dubious handling characteristics at high AOA.

No5 Harrier, great at airshows for flying backwards but only good against 2nd generation jets until AMRAAM came along (and even then they couldn't bring more than 2 back to the boat!).

No6 Meteor, first British jet fighter but not allowed into combat until the opposition had MiG15s - scored 14 kills in WWII against V1 flying bombs.

No7 Vampire, jet fighters on the cheap?

No8 Hawk, a trainer until they put an APG66 in the front but only an IR missile on the wings? :ugh: (none of the nations that bought it were allowed AMRAAM at the time!).

So there you have it. We could change the poll to "What's the best RAF post-war fighter we didn't buy?" - the F15... :ok:

Finally, why didn't they include Typhoon?

The B Word

[Samuel]

Peter...Juliet at Embakasi!




http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e33/Shadblat/JulietatEmbakasi.jpg

[ArthurR]

jindabyne: thanks for the link, only been able to have a quick look at it at the moment, sadly have no photo's left from my time there, my ex first wife had them. :ok:

[petermcleland]

Thanks Samuel...That definitely means we had 13 Hunter FGA9s so I'll have to add it into my simulation :ooh: :ooh: :ooh:

[27mm]

Back in the dim and distant past in RAFG, we were told to remove the underwing tanks from our trusty FGR2s - our steeds were already no slouches at LL, but in clean-wing config they were awesome. Airborne by the approach-end cable, we could fight on equal terms anything around at the time, including GAF F-4s, Eagles, Vipers and Hornets, etc. The most fun jet I've ever been in (mind you, I'm waiting for my Tiffie trip....)

[Firestreak]

B-Word, ref your list of 8 a/c, I've been fortunate enough to flown every one, albeit just the odd back seat in a Harrier and F3; not much in the Meteor and Vampire but plenty in the others. My top 3 would be:-

Lightning--just nothing like it
Hunter--lovely to fly
Meteor--it's living history

[ArthurR]

Worked on both the Lightning and the Hunter, never flew in a Lightning, but did fly in a hunter, (t-bird in Oman) flew it for a while as well. But of the Lightning I recall an old story:
Back in the dark distant past at RAF Valley, at about 07:30 hrs they used to fly a weather flight, a Gnat, (nobody ever trusted meteorologists) Just before the Gnat took off, a Voodoo from our cousins would fly low the length of the runway then go into a steep climb, naturally the Gnat couldn’t do the same, then one day Lightnings arrived at MPC, and were asked to do the weather flight the next day, possibly arranged in the officers mess the night before, anyway it sat on the runway waiting, sure enough, in came the Voodoo, same as normal, off went the lighning, full re-heat and over took the Voodoo on its climb. They never came back.

voted for the Hunter though, pity the Vulcan does not count :D

[The B Word]

This RAFBF Poll is like "Whacky Races" as the positions are now:

1. Hunter
2. Tornado
3. Phantom
4. Lightning

Still, 12 days to go before the final result and I am sure there is some cheat voting going on.

The B Word

[Wholigan]

I am sure there is some cheat voting going on

Surely not!?!

People certainly haven't contacted the Hunter Association and the Lightning Association to drum up votes. I'm sure they haven't!!!!

[jindabyne]

Perhaps so with Nos 2, 3 and 4. But with your No1, there is that inevitability.

Hey RJ - you've done it again!!

[newt]

Cheating!!!

Must be too many politicians around these days!

There is only one proper fighter aircraft on the list and thats the Lightning.

Flack jacket on and off to the bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fast Pussy]

First - Lightning was an interceptor, not a fighter.:hmm:

Second - this poll is just like a political poll - biased! :ugh: Where is the Jaguar? With overwing missiles and proper calibre guns, it matches or outguns many of the contenders. It went very fast, without having to move its wings. And it could certainly outlast a Lightning. Not great at hovering, and not as good sounding as a Hunter. But at least it didn't waste fuel capacity carrying unwanted freight.

[newt]

Well Fast Pussy, the Jaguar could never be described as a fighter. It flew nicely in Oman with no tanks and AIM L and 2 Aden cannon but was always limited in surface ceiling and outright power to weight ratio.

The Lightning also had "proper calibre" guns. On the Mk2 and 2a we carried two Aden cannons and 2 missiles. We could also replace the missile pack with a gun pack to give 4 Aden cannons!

Your use of the word interceptor may be correct but the Lightning could turn on a sixpence and out-fight all of the competition of the day!

In my book a genuine fighter!

Flack jacket on and now under the bar!!

[Fast Pussy]

Newt

Not picking on the Lightning for the size of its guns - just a comment about those which have subordinated themselves to the whims of the Germans or Italians.

Also, will not comment on the size of your sixpence - size is subjective - but once around your average sixpence and the Lightning was Bingo for home!

The Jaguar might not win the poll - but at least it should be in the fight!

See you under the bar - mine's a saucer of milk!:)

[BEagle]

Unless it had 'F Mk (whatever)' in its designation, it simply wasn't a fighter. E.g Hunter F Mk 6, Lightning F Mk 2A, Tornado F Mk 3, Phantom FGR Mk 2....

The pussycat didn't, therefore it wasn't! Endex!

Miaow!!

[Fast Pussy]

So - if the aeroplane behind you doesn't have an "F" in it, then it's no threat??:confused:.

Although irrelevant to this debate, the F-117 has an F - and carries exactly which air-to-air weapons? And how many F variants of the Spitfire were there?

The A-4 did reasonably well in Vietnam without an F.

The RAF Harrier did air defence in Belize for many years 'cos no F-jets could operate there. It also did air defence of Ascension Island and the Falklands until the "real" air defenders could get parental approval to participate.

So let's enjoy some lateral thinking and not be pedants who fall out over just one letter!

The Jaguar had some teeth - and in the right hands could be put into a position to use them. I am simply suggesting that it should have been included in the poll for completeness. I would not expect it to win!

I'm going back under the bar!:E

[The B Word]

FP

The funniest thing I ever saw was the JP on a Tornado F3 (with less than 3-400hrs on type) debriefing a Jag Flt Cdr on his BFM skills in the ACMI Cabin as his 2v2 Op Check. He gave the Jags a right good shoeing - 3 sore bottoms to none! All from Neutral set ups - he taught them all about lag BFM that day :ok:

Anyway, doesn't the famous Jag song go "they drop bombs and take nice piccies..." can't mention the rest or the PC Police will ban me!

Finally, Jags started out as a trainer but proved too big a handful (heavens knows how many studes we would have killed) - the Hawk eventually won Air Staff Target 362 as a better option. The Anglo-French MOU was originally for 150 2-seat RAF Jags to replace the Gnat and Hunter. This was changed in the 70s to provide a cheap strike attack/tac recce (note. No fighter role!) aircraft for the RAF and 9 Sqn's worth were ordered.

The B Word

[The B Word]

PS

Here is a Jag with teeth!

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3766/jaguar54sqxx732th.jpg

[Fast Pussy]

TBW

Nice piccie!

The Jag Flt Cdr you refer to must have been ex-Lightnings! Or a QFI!!

[The B Word]

Or both! :ok:

[newt]

Best you stay under the bar Fast Pussy!!

[Easy Street]

Also, will not comment on the size of your sixpence - size is subjective - but once around your average sixpence and the Lightning was Bingo for home!

The Jaguar might not win the poll - but at least it should be in the fight!


In the Jag's case, the sixpence would have to be the size of Norfolk!

I once had the pleasure of witnessing a young first-tourist Jag mate dishing out the "two seat loser" banter to a bunch of Tornado mates, telling them how rubbish their engines were (!) and what a brick the Tonka was (!), emboldened no doubt by his squadron buddies laughing away behind him. What he didn't know (but his chuckling mates did) was that one of the Tornado pilots was a former Jag QWI with a couple of thousand hours on type, who eventually grew bored and whispered quietly in the young buck's ear with a withering assessment of the two types' respective performance. Cue sheepish look and retreat back to safety of the Jag pack!

[Park82]

Thanks to all who have voted so far in our poll. With nearly 3,000 votes now cast, the Hunter still leads but the Lightning has somewhat surprisingly dropped away from second place, overtaken by the Phantom and Tornado - the Phantom in particular having made a sudden surge... Do please vote if you haven't already (or perhaps even if you have) - the poll's open for another 10 days.

Does no-one feel a little sorry for the Vampire? First jet aircraft to make, as wikipedia puts it, an "intentional and planned" landing and take-off on an aircraft carrier...

[GeeRam]

Well the Lightning is still the most long lived in it’s intended role…..so far.

Lightning = 28 years
Phantom (in AD) = 24 years
Tornado F3 = 23 years, so far.
Hunter (F marks) = 15 years
Javelin = 12 years

[Fast Pussy]

And its intended role was??? To intercept Soviet Bombers??? If my memory is correct, did the Lightning Force not have IWIs??? And what did the "I" stand for???

[Lima Juliet]

Back to the top for the results...

We're going to run the poll until September 7th, when we will release the final results

[Archimedes]

At the moment (2354 on 6 Sep), it seems that they're going to have to announce that the Tornado has been the greatest fighter aircraft. Which may, I suspect from the discussion about that aircraft on these means in the course of the eight or so years I've been a Ppruner, come a surprise to some. Including a number of chaps who've flown it...

[The B Word]

No surprises here...and it's now the 7th...

http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/leuchars/rafleucharsairshow/images/tornado05-450.jpg

[Lima Juliet]

That will be the power of having a couple of bored QRA crews then!

[red3]

I suppose I'm too late as it's the 8th, but this thread cannot possibly come to a sensible conclusion as it's apples and oranges. All the jets we are talking about have been screwed by politicians. I only flew three of the contenders, the Hunter, Meteor and the Lightning. Thanks to our lords and masters, both political and military, they were all spoiled as warplanes and as usual the boys on the front line had to get the best out of them - which they did.

In my humble opinion the most capable fighter was the Phantom, the prettiest, the Hunter and the most sheer fun, the aloominum toob!!:ok:

[Griz]

Did it ever occur to anyone that virtually all the "fighting" done by RAF aircraft in the last umpty ump years has been done by bombers, rotary and transport?

Just a thought.......;)

[Siggie]

Where did the Nimrod come in the poll? - oops, sorry - thought it was for the biggest jet fighter.:}

[Pontius Navigator]

So, which aircraft won? Was it the GR or F version?

[Park82]

Our poll to find the best post-WW2 fighter jet has now closed. With over 5,000 votes cast, we can announce that the winner is the Tornado - you can review the results in full at:

www.rafbf90.org.uk (http://www.rafbf90.org.uk)

The Hunter enjoyed a really comfortable lead for a long time, then was suddenly overtaken by the Phantom and Tornado at the last minute.

Thanks for all your votes, and look out for our new poll coming next week!