Air NZ NZRO to YSSY

[27/09]

This seems to have slipped under the radar

Air NZ unveils new Rotorua-Sydney flights - Travel - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/news/article.cfm?c_id=7&objectid=10589276)

I wonder how this will go. Personally I don't see the numbers stacking up. Rotovegas is a smelly over rated dump.

However it is quite central, Taupo isn't all that far away along with the skifields at Ruapehu a bit further south. Vegas is far enough away from Auckland for Auckland not to pillage too many pax that might fly out of NZRO unlike Hamilton and Rotorua is certainly much more of a destination than NZHN.

Smart move by Air NZ or is it a dumb move? I wonder how it will affect the PacBlue operation out of NZHN?

[Offcut]

Rumour has it (in the ODT) that the Rotorua Council, or some other local group, is underwriting any loss on the route incurred by Air NZ. With excess capacity in the network its a no brainer.

[QF DRIVE]

Its a long way to rootarower

[airnz737]

I can see the flights going well as Rotorua will be able to be a gateway to the Central North Island and it is a tourist destination. The reason why Air New Zealand didn't do well out of Hamilton was because it was not a tourist destination and relied on the outbound market.

I can see Pacific Blue pulling out of Hamilton in the next year or two and they have even said that the bookings aren't quite so great now the launch sales have finished.

[stumpy6]

Actually, I think you will find that Hamilton didnt work for Air NZ because (1) Air NZ have a poor presence in the Australian market, (2) Hamilton is not a well established destination in Australia and (3) Air NZ prices were too high for the Hamilton market. Hamilton had the outbound numbers but inbound numbers were bad as a combined result the above.

Pacific Blue will do much better because there is price parity with Auckland, Pacific Blue has a well established brand in Australia, and Waikato Tourism is getting a good kick in the behind resulting in better awareness in the Australian market.

Hamilton didnt get the international numbers with Air NZ because an hour down the road (at Auckland) were much cheaper flights to the same destination. De Ja Vu if you ask me for Rotorua - because now, just an hour up the road from them is Hamilton with cheaper flights to the same destination.

Also - Sydney is a real dog of a market at the moment - recent publications show that most airports are suffering on that destination at the moment. Pacific Blue booking slowing is not surprising because most airlines to Sydney will also be experiencing similar reductions in bookings.

[27/09]

I thought the PacBlue prices out of NZHN with the exception of the introductory prices weren't that much different from what Air NZ were charging. Stumpy, can you quote figures to prove your point?

Will PacBlue be any cheaper out of NZHN than AirNZ will be out of NZRO?

The drive between HN and AA is much easier than the drive between RO and HN and there is a very well established airport shuttle network between NZHN and NZAA. I don't see PacBlue dragging to many from NZRO.

Stumpy you also forget the fact that in addition to the cheaper prices, NZAA has a much wider selection of flight times. One of the big problems at NZHN was the time of day and the frequency, i.e. the arrival and departure times weren't all that user friendly and you could only go to certain destinations on certain days. The PacBlue offering doesn't change any of that.

(2) Hamilton is not a well established destination in Australia Hamilton isn't a destination for any market in my view.

Why has it taken till now for the Waikato region to start trying to attract tourists. The airport company of all people has employed a tourism marketing guru. They certainly didn't do their bit to support AirNZ in that regard yet were pretty quick to condemn Air NZ when they pulled out.

[stumpy6]

I had travelled a few times from Hamilton in the past to Sydney which cost $1300 return for two (post Freedom's exit). Thats an average of $325ow. PacificBlue's standard fare is $199 each way Sydney, and a few articles had stated that specials will be run proportionally with AKL's specials (happy hour specials I am talking). I understand Rotorua will be $209 which is not much more expensive I agree.

I agree with what you say and believe HLZ will lose the majority (if not all) of it's previous Rotorua's market, but Rotorua is not HLZ's entire catchment (in fact it is only about 10% (including Taupo maybe??)).

I agree that HLZ flight schedule is poor for the NZ market, but with an established outbound market, the current schedule suits inbound passengers (early evening departures from Australia).

From what I understand, the previous tourism initiative lost direction and funding was withdrawn - I guess this is an attempt to re-establish the Tourism initiative which is timely with PacBlue's arrival.

I guess what Hamilton has going for it is that for Hamilton and the greater regions (Coromandel, Tauranga, etc) now have access to comparable flight fares and cheaper parking rates than the equivelant in Auckland, so I would have thought that more of the Hamilton and surrounding region who would otherwise have travelled through Auckland, will now choose Hamilton. Before, parking was expensive at Hamilton and so were Air NZ's fares compared to Auckland.

[ZK-NSN]

It might be long enough, but its still a bit narrow.
I'd be pretty hacked off if I was a rate payer in ROT. Now that they have just finished paying to make the runway longer they are going to pay someone to use it. It is a very popular holiday area for Aussies but think you'll struggle to fill the bus up.

[oh hello deiter]

another anz knee jerk reaction to another airlines plans. NZ decide to pull out of hlz dud and palmy for whatever reasons they had. All of a sudden they think there is great inbound traffic to vegas and a provincial town should be honoured to once again have koru international services? give me a break. I can't remember the last time uncle koru had an original idea other then to copycat other airlines and make out like they are the airline for kiwis in the regions. I think Nz'ers will see past all that crap.. As sure as the sunrise tommorow...if pac blue pull out of HLZ...the people of rotorua can say bye bye to air nz.

[Offcut]

A "knee jerk reaction"? get off the grass buddy. They have excess capacity (who doesn't at the moment?) and have had any losses underwritten by a third party. If they didn't look at opportunities like this they would not be acting in their shareholders interests. How about leaving your hatred of our national carrier out of this.

[stumpy6]

I have travelled a few times from Hamilton to Sydney in the past under Air NZ and prices were around $1300 for two (an average of $325) compared to PacBlue offering $199.

Rotorua will be slightly more expensive than Hamilton (at $209 I think) but my point is that Hamilton, Coromandel, Tauranga, Raglan, and other surrounding regions now have a much more compelling reason to fly Hamilton than Auckland (price parity, cheaper parking as well as not having to travel to Auckland, and a quicker processing time). Much of Hamilton's travellers went through Auckland, so loyalty to the region was a big reason for passenger numbers falling from HLZ in the midst of high fares by Air NZ from HLZ.

My guess is that Air NZ took a gamble that if they pull out of Hamilton, thus potentially increasing their loadings out of Auckland (and therefore greater efficiency), that no other carrier would take their place in Hamilton. Problem was, someone did, and Air NZ made such a mess of themselves when they left Hamilton that no one would welcome them back, so what better than to drop in to Rotorua and try to compete with Pacific Blue from next door.

Good on Rotorua for securing internation services, but I am pretty confident that Rotorua cannot survive, surely. If Air NZ claim Hamilton did not have the passenger numbers to warrant international services, how is Rotorua any different? The catchment area covers the same area by both airport's claims that they are both the "gateway to the central NI". I can only see it as a strategic move in anticipation of shunting Pacific Blue out and then Air NZ will withdrawal from Rotorua because the catchment still fails to provide number that warrant services.

[27/09]

Stumpy,

You may well be right when you say that Rotorua won't work, I tend to agree, BUT I think it has a much better chance of working than Hamilton will for either Air NZ or PacBlue.

Rotorua is different because it is a destination in it's own right, Hamilton was only ever a gateway to other places, one of these places being Rotorua.

I'm not sure what you mean by AirNZ making a mess of themselves when they left NZHN. They were painted as the bad boys by the local media. However some local media has never been known for letting the facts get in the way of their version of events.

Even still they beat up any Air New Zealand action, a headline recently loudly procalimed that Air New Zealand had slashed flights to and from Hamilton. This statement was made to look as if Air NZ was deliberately picking on NZHN when in fact they have cut schedules to many destinations.

HIAL have to take some responsibility for the passenger drop off in NZHN with the cost of car parking. I think they might have addressed that issue recently but not before people had decided that they could travel by road to Auckland for less than they could park at NZHN.

There's been hints of incentives for Air NZ to go to NZRO, I have to wonder what incentives PacBlue got for going to NZHN.

[plainmaker]

One other thing that may work for NZRO is the catchment area of Tauranga/Mt Maunganui. Basically under an hour away, and by that measurement would 'capture' one of the more affluent areas in NZ.

Hamilton was never really an option for the Tauranga crowd, as the journey time to AKL was similar to that of Hamilton.

ROT may work - be interesting to see what 'inbound' they generate direct from Int'l, when AKL is a gateway (and destination) for the larger aircraft that currently service the markets that provide the bulk of the inbound market.

Plainmaker

[haughtney1]

Whats the road like between Tauranga and Vegas these days? is it any better?
That I think will determine if the catchment options in the BOP would work out of Vegas.
I'd prefer to get to YSSY from the Omokoroa mansion via Vegas, rather than going through Athenree or across the kaimais.


(dont live in the Omokoroa mansion..its rented to lower life-forms:E)

[horserun]

How will the bus get on flying in out of of RO?

[+TSRA]

Well ya see, they will have this big long rubber band tied between Lynmore and Poets Corner, wrap it back behind the 'bus and when shes at TO/GA they let it go and maybe if she is lightly loaded she clears the trees at the north end.
If they have to take-off to the south, then I guess Ron Hopes old place is in for one hell of a reno! :}

Have they actually done the extension to the north end of the field yet or are they still fighting to clear the trees and move the marae?

I'm not sure why they never did just take a bit of land to the east of Te Puke and make a big airport closing down Tauranga and Rotorua. Maybe throw Whakatane into the mix and you'd get some decent traffic not just from around NZ but maybe even more connections to Oz and the Islands.

[On Guard]

I suspect HLZ's timings for PB were chosen as they give outbound travellers good connections in AU to other destinations incl Bali/Puket and good timings for the business traveller. The timings will not suit operations as there will be issues with fog vs lunchtime flights but these would have been a poor choice commercially. The fog will be a major though.

I think you are all forgeting, PB are not going to HN for a destination market, rather providing outbound service for business and NZ tourists.

RO is inbound for AU tourists and will take some of the pax from PB's HN ops but how many - not sure?

[Water Wings]

I have to wonder what incentives PacBlue got for going to NZHN

Knowing what the airport manger and his team are like, I suspect they have given Pac Blue a free run for next to nothing and probably agreed to everything just short of sucking Brett Godfrey's c%$k!:suspect:

[Cypher]

If they have to take-off to the south, then I guess Ron Hopes old place is in for one hell of a reno!


Ron Hope!!!! Theres one name I haven't heard in awhile.. what the hell is he up to these days? :}

[27/09]

Water Wings

I see you too have a very high opinion of the HIAL management team. Plonkers

[27/09]

How will the bus get on flying in out of of RO?

I think getting in will be more of a problem than getting out.

Runway has been lengthened to the south but this really only helps for landing to the south and departure to the north due to terrain to the south of the airfield. It's a narrow runway as well, what are the wet crosswind limits for the A320? Most bad weather arrivals will be towards the north.

I predict a few diversions to NZAA unless they have arrangements at NZHN for border control.

The fog at NZHN will be less of a problem for departures than the weather at NZRO will be for arrivals.

[+TSRA]

When I left vegas three years ago Ron had just finished as CP at the Aero Club and had left aviation to continue working the bench as JP in the court house there. I have no clue what he is doing now though.

[airnz737]

Another problem with Hamilton is the flight times. They leave at around 6-7am and return at midnight. These times are horrible for people from Tauranga, Rotorua and the rest of the Waikato/Bay of Plenty. The new Air NZ flights will come in around 2.30pm and leave at 3.30pm.

Also watch out for Pacific Wings launching soon. Rumoured to be Rotorua to Sydney and Brisbane.