Puma Review redacted

[ralphmalph]

Although old news to many, this make very interesting reading....

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/66D22157-514E-4B1B-87C5-C445234C9C26/0/puma_review_redacted.pdf

I imagine many of us can draw similar lines within our own organisations to some degree.

Would love to read the redacted parts! ;-)

[Tiger_mate]

Well worth taking the time to read. Several recomendations not music to my ears but valid all the same. No prisoners taken, and from what I could read of it, a concise and accurate report.

[Safeware]

Might help if they knew what ALARP meant :)

sw

[[email protected]]

Shame the bit about leadership and supervision is blanked out - I suspect that most of the issues stem from there.

The Puma force has always considered itself a cut above the rest - in the 80's many of them were convinced that they were the 'single seat FJ' equivalent in the RW world and I have seen little evidence of a change of heart, even recently a det cdr ignored all requests to integrate with a hosting unit creating a major FS issue and didn't even organise accommodation for his ground crew although the aircrew were sorted in respective messes - two nights running!!

If you keep promoting arrogant individuals with lots of management/career ticks but no real leadership qualities, why be surprised when things don't get any better?

[Tiger_mate]

Cant defend that; do you want your knife back?

FWIW The 80s Puma force in RAFG thrived on a 'work hard play hard' culture that was very much the order of the day for the whole of RAFG. The wailing mini's (TACEVAL) in the early hours of what felt like every other week ensured that skills required for NATO tasking was optimised. Accidents / Incidents were few and far between and morale was very high, even in a rat infested barn in the middle of a (v cold) european winter. The perceived 'threat' was overwhelming, but the counter threat depended upon accurate low flying, threat awareness and precise navigation and the crews were capable of that. Ex-AAC pilots heightened crew (troops on the ground) tactical awareness which was welcomed, it being the weak point of operating procedures. Inter Sqn rivalry was maintained to a degree on the joint (33 &230) Belize dets but in a healthy manner.

The additional pilot in GW1 was not universally welcomed but soon accepted. [Crewman cockpit involvement was significantly reduced (almost in toto) and pilots workload shared which was never going to be welcomed with open arms regardless of flying badge.] However the emphasise placed on warning of low engine power was also reduced and the operating procedure is IMHO significant, especially when added to crew inexperience as time went on.

The 'leaders' may well incure valid criticism, but you can only play with the cards that you have been dealt with. ....and the aces had gone to the airlines, as had the royal flushes to fixed wing (FJ) crossovers.

[oldbeefer]

The Puma force has always considered itself a cut above the rest - in the 80's many of them were convinced that they were the 'single seat FJ' equivalent in the RW world


That's because we were, Crab. Lowly Seaking aircrew could only look on with awe and amazement.

[antisthenes]

Tiger Mate

Let's be serious, 230 Sqn in its RAFG days simply blundered about from Tiger meet to Tiger meet. GW1 was a horrible wake up call to the dinosaurs of that era.

Good to see old big nose still has a Phd in "the bleedin' obvious", Air Rank or not!

[[email protected]]

OldBeefer - just as well I was a Wessex pilot then:ok:

In those days they didn't let Pumas into operational theatres (NI) except to hover really high out of harms way:)

[charliegolf]

except to hover really high out of harms way

In the dark, Crab, don't forget the cover of darkness.

CG

[Cows getting bigger]

I seem to remember the Puma doing some rather unusual and special things. OK, not exactly great at the whole air assault piece, but very good on the fringes of SH.

[Fareastdriver]

Ignoring the childish sniping between Wessex and Puma crews, which I thought had died out twenty years ago, one thing I would have thought that would have brought the Puma up to the 'ruff&tuff' attitude of the Wessex is the long stroke naval undercarriage used on the Super Pumas and subsequent models.
I've done my bit. Lever under the armpit, no Rrpm, no autopilot, no tailskid and am I supposed to have the nose pin in/out, brakes on/off. Unfortunately for some other pilots in a similar situation they were not flying aircraft with such a strong instinct of self-preservation as the ones I was flying.
Fast forward to civvy flying. Move on to the Super Puma. Get caught in recirculation, rig turbulence, whatever but it leads to the same thing. Lever under the armpit, this time we've got stacks of Rrpm. It's got a big tailskid but its a civvy aircraft so it follows company SOPs and the principles of flight. You arrive on the helideck like a, correction, several, tons of bricks. I will admit it, a few times, but even after that I have never had a passenger even turn a hair. The same in the cockpit, it is dismissed by the aircraft as a minor squelch.
Slightly concerned you talk to the ginger beers about it. They look up the books. Bitten lips, eyeballs dot-crossing, neck braces? Not a problem. As long as it hit whatever it was at a vertical speed of less than 6 metres/second they're not interested.
6 m/s is nearly 1200ft/min.