AS365 vs Agusta 109

[Bell214B]

I have a friend who wants a fast twin engined helicopter which he intends to pilot himself mainly for business trips.
I recommended him the Dauphin because I know that one a bit.
But he likes the Agusta 109 better because of the sleeker looks.

So now he asked me which one is the fastest? I don't know with the Agusta. What "real life" cruise speed can you expect?

Also if you were in the position to by a twin for your own personal transport, what would you buy? We are talking about a budget of around 2 mill euros.

[9Aplus]

Dauphin is faster,
have more space,
"eats" more Jet,
but runs only on turbomeca engines.....

Cash offered hardly enough for decent maachine...even now
:ok:

[BlenderPilot]

In real life and at our average altitudes the 365N3 is slightly faster, on a 135NM trip the difference is about 3 minutes.

The 365N3 will carry about one more passsenger than the 109E on our 135NM trip taking off from a pad at 8,000 FT ISA +20, and this is if you keep Avionics and VIP equipment low.

The 365N3 has a lower roof and is more uncomfortable to hop into for passsengers as it's much higher.

The 365N3 is more than twice as expensive, also maintenance can be a nightmare thanks to EC, they are improving but still not up to standard, and this last two are probably the reason why there are probably about 6 Agustas for each 365.

The difference is very small and the Agusta is better looking anyway.

[FloaterNorthWest]

As 9Aplus said 2 million euros won't buy you a decent example of either. Probably looking at a well used A109A or C model.

If you are just flying 2 or 3 passengers I would say go for the A109 anymore than that and you would be better with a 365 unless you can stretch to an A109 Grand and looking more like 3.5 million Euros+.

FNW

[turboshaft]

Blender - Copy you on the Dauphin's cabin, lack of engine option and higher DOCs (+30%, largely due to Arriels), but the '6 Agustas for each 365' comment threw me - is this the number of used aircraft for sale? The fleet ratio between the two is actually 1.5:1, not 6:1.

Both are beautiful aircraft, but personally I've always had a thing for the Dauphin's lines. I guess it partly depends on what the girl sitting in the CP seat looks like.....

;)

[Bell214B]

Thank you for your answers gentlemen. We will go for the Agusta then.
Presently looking at a 109E which is for sale in UK.

[FloaterNorthWest]

Bell,

Have you considered an S76? We have an S76B for sale for €2.4 million. We also have an A109E for sale for around the €2 million mark.

If you PM me an email address I will send you the specs.

FNW

[Mark Six]

If speed is the priority go for the A109S. The 109E and N3 are pretty close but the 109S will leave both for dead. Only helicopter I've flown where you actually have to be careful not to exceed VNE (168 kts) while cruising, and the only one I've come across which actually has an aural warning (woman's voice - "airspeed"!) when you are approaching VNE. I plan at 155kts TAS, but if in a hurry I will sit on 160 KIAS. Unfortunately you won't find one within your budget though.