Jetconnet's Australian Ops

[Unphased]

Transposed from the Qantas pilots' chatsite.

JetConnect to Operate Domestic in OZ??
The trans tasman deal has been made and the statement release is imminent that Tasman services are to be domestic ( ie no customs ) and operated from domestic terminals. This means that JetConnect will operate out of our domestic gates?? This is very very concerning to me as a short haul pilot. IS IT NOT TIME TO LET THE PUBLIC KNOW THAT THESE SERVICES ARE NOT QANTAS SERVICES AT ALL, SELLING ON QANTAS'S REPUTATION AND SERVICE, ALL THE WHILE AT THE COMPROMISE OF SAFETY see article below

Trans-Tasman travel costs set to drop
Angela Harper
August 4, 2009
The cost of flying between New Zealand and Australia looks set to drop as trans-Tasman red tape could be cut.

Australian and New Zealand customs last year reached an initial agreement to streamline travel between the two nations while boosting border security.

The plan to create a common border will allow trans-Tasman travellers to avoid customs and immigration, dropping flight prices by up to 30 per cent and allowing an explosion in potential new flight routes.

New Zealand Prime Minister John Key, who spoke to AAP before addressing a business forum in Brisbane on Tuesday, said he, together with Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, would formally announce the changes when they meet in a few weeks to discuss the bilateral Closer Economic Relations (CER) agreement.

"It is a positive announcement which will allow New Zealanders and Australians to cross each others' borders more easily," Mr Key told AAP.

"It's an attempt to streamline the process and to ensure that it's a more seamless and painless process for Australians and New Zealanders as they travel across the border."

Any new rules would not affect quarantine or biosecurity "level of exposure" between the two countries, he said.

About one million Australians visit New Zealand each year.
[/b]

I heard yesterday from a Line Captain that he was told by a "Struggling JetConnect" captain under training that they have been told that they are getting not only 4-5 737-800's, but a further 4 next year.

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEE'S THIS!!!! CMON GUYS CALL/EMAIL YOUR AIPA REP [email protected] and GIVE THEM SUPPORT FOR THEIR MEETING ON TUESDAY. THIS AFFECTS EVERYONE IN QANTAS. NOT JUST SHORT HAUL.

:uhoh:

[neville_nobody]

NZ will be to Australian aviation what India was to the computer industry. Because of their low wages, more favourable IR legislation they will drive Australian pilots wages down. QF will use Jetstar NZ against the OZ Jetstar and another company maybe jetconnict against mainline. So lookout people.

Pac Blue could be used the same way against VB if they're not careful.

However it does make you question the whole point of the QF recruiting system if they are happy to offload the red tails to the cheapest bidder.

[airtags]

bloody bi-lateral B.S. - we need to send the pollies and the departmental flunkies to Canda for a few strategic lessons..............in fact we should take the same approach with electoral boundaries !!!!!!!!

These deals, the outrageous Dept of Transport statements last week on EU Open Skies and the ongoing cascade of ignorant, uneducated IASC approvals of late under their "acting Exec Director" (emphasis on acting) only affirm that we soon will be looking for the Centrelink queues to be arranged in seniority order.

Note to the Minister and his under achieving (small a) advisors:

Paragraph 4 criteria refers to the benefit to the AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC not overseas operators - OS airlines are not interestd in bringing people TO Australia but to take pax OUT.

Every person working in Australian aviation needs to write to the Minister and their local Member and remind them that the next election is not that far away

AT

[slamer.]

Interesting how most accents I hear from both Jetconnect and Jetstar aircraft are usually not kiwi but about every other accent from around the planet.... but mostly Australian...!

[grrowler]

SELLING ON QANTAS'S REPUTATION AND SERVICE, ALL THE WHILE AT THE COMPROMISE OF SAFETY Yeah ok, it is an attack on oz conditions and jobs, but please come up with a better argument to take to the public...

[27/09]

Another interesting fact is that it is the Aussie owned airlines that are attempting to drive down pilots wages in New Zealand. Neither of the Aussie owned operations are attempting to match what has been traditionally paid over here. Once they have finished shafting pilots on this side of the Tasman they turn their attention towards home.

Another case of Aussies dishing it out to Aussies.

[fourholes]

27/09

Agree whole heartedly but you did not finish the last sentence.

Another case of Aussies dishing it out to Aussies.
and then blaming it on the Kiwis'.:8

[27/09]

Fourholes

Thanks for finishing off the sentence for me :ok:

[GlobalMaster]

Don't worry! Atrophy is natural.

Protectionism won't save Air Canada or Qantas and Virgin Blue. All surviving international carriers will have to develop global scale to continue to prosper.

Sorry to suggest the unimaginable, but getting the Kiwi's and Aussie's to fight it out downunder, is just what New York's and London's PE Raiders pray for.

Get with the program and back CEO's who have the vision to see what tomorrow will bring.

Good luck! :oh:

[balance]

SELLING ON QANTAS'S REPUTATION AND SERVICE, ALL THE WHILE AT THE COMPROMISE OF SAFETY

Yeah ok, it is an attack on oz conditions and jobs, but please come up with a better argument to take to the public...

Why, Growler? Just because you say so? IMHO, it is not an unreasonable argument put forward by that Qrewroom poster. There are similar precedents in most other industries, but you seem to forget that. Put simply, you get what you pay for. Better people WILL go after better pay and conditions. Darwinism.

Ah, but you say I have no evidence! Wrong! Colgan Airways. The rot has started and will not end until accountants realise the actual value of a human life, not the paper value!

And, as I stated, there is plenty of evidence from other industries of "cheaper not being better". How many indian call centres have you had a successful call with lately? How do chinese products hold up in comparision with others?

Qantas is a another good example. The airline has for many years now p1ssed the travelling public off sooooo much, that the only reason many people fly with them these days is because of the pilots. They honestly belive that the pilots ARE SAFER. Now even they are being replaced by cheaper imitations? As a paying passenger, I wouldn't be happy.

I understand your point, Growler, but with respect, I disagree.

[who_cares]

What I find more important is how will the government controll immigration into Aust if it is a domestic flight from New Zealand.

I believe the immigration criteria into NZ maybe a little less stringent then Aust, could be an easy way into the country.

[apache]

Qantas is a another good example. The airline has for many years now p1ssed the travelling public off sooooo much, that the only reason many people fly with them these days is because of the pilots. They honestly belive that the pilots ARE SAFER. Now even they are being replaced by cheaper imitations? As a paying passenger, I wouldn't be happy.

What a crock of SH!T.
Many passengers continue to fly Qantas because:
A/ their company has a corporate deal with them
B/ They are allowed to fly business class between SYD and CBR, or some other silly short sector, which their company will pay for.
C/ they are locked into the frequent flyer program, and have too many points to lose if they get out, and not enough for a free sandwich,
D/ the perceived MAINTENANCE standards are higher.
E/ QF has a monopoly on some sector(maybe regional!?)
I have NEVER EVER EVER heard any passenger prefer to fly QF because they reckon the pilots are safer.
Do NOT misquote me on this please. I am not saying that QF pilots are any better or worse than the rest of OZ/NZ pilots. I am saying that the public does not PERCEIVE them to be any better than the rest.

Whilst we are on the subject... Who trained the Jetconnect chaps? My understanding , and I may be incorrect, of it is that they all were trained in the QF simulator in Melbourne, by the SAME instructors that train "mainline" Qf drivers.

I am not sticking for companies that want to lower wages, but I thought the Arrogance of the post above was just horrendous.

[Shredder6]

This is very very concerning to me as a short haul pilot. IS IT NOT TIME TO LET THE PUBLIC KNOW THAT THESE SERVICES ARE NOT QANTAS SERVICES AT ALL, SELLING ON QANTAS'S REPUTATION AND SERVICE, ALL THE WHILE AT THE COMPROMISE OF SAFETY

Of course they're Qantas services. Qantas owned, Qantas painted aircraft, Qantas booking system, frequent flyers.....etc, etc.

They're certainly more Qantas than Jetstar!

And how will safety be compromised?? I reckon you'd be in no better hands than than a couple of local 73' drivers that regularly fly in and out of places like Wellington, Dunedin, Queenstown, Roto-vegas!


And no I don't work for either JC or JS.

[balance]

Apache, I'm not after a p1ssing contest with you. You have your opinion, I have mine. But you did say:

Do NOT misquote me on this please.

yet you choose to misquote me? Hardly fair.

I fly with pax who tell me exactly the only reason that they choose to fly with us. The pilots. Just because you haven't heard it does not mean it isn't true! Perhaps you need to get out more.

What a crock of SH!T.
Many passengers continue to fly Qantas because:
A/ their company has a corporate deal with them
B/ They are allowed to fly business class between SYD and CBR, or some other silly short sector, which their company will pay for.
C/ they are locked into the frequent flyer program, and have too many points to lose if they get out, and not enough for a free sandwich,
D/ the perceived MAINTENANCE standards are higher.
E/ QF has a monopoly on some sector(maybe regional!?)


Ok - point A, B, and E are perhaps true, but we are referring to a punter who has a choice in where they spend their money, right? Point "C"? Well, a punter can choose VB for rewards program, correct? Hardly locked in. As far as point "D", you have to be joking, right? Have you not seen the news lately about QF perceived maintenance standards? Whether it's true or not, QF maintenance is now perceived by punters to be done overseas, because it's cheaper. Don't bother telling me that one aint true!

And as far as Jitcinnict having the SAME instructors? That might be about as far as it goes, fella. Are the SAME standards applied in the sim? Are the SAME standards applied in recruitment? Are the standards the SAME on the line? Maybe. Maybe not. But as a paying punter, I wouldn't like my pilots sitting up the front there wondering how in the hell they are going to pay their mortgage, let alone feed the kids. Darwinism, mate!

You might call it arrogance, my friend. I call it "telling it like it is". If you want political correctness, and to feel warm and fuzzy in your low paid LCC job, fine. But the fact are the facts. You get what you pay for in this beautiful world. :yuk:

Feel free NOT to misquote me, too.

[downwind]

YouTube - The Spirit of???? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc06rTETmJU)

Ironic video for this thread.

when they recruit people fact;

they do;

1. maths/english shl test , personality assesment (shl)
2. SIM assesment in Auckland on a 737
3. and a medical and a interview

In summary a much of a muchness compared to the mainline process.

the training is exactly the same as the QF standards, due to the fact that QF flight ops oversee's the entire operation and does audits on it. JC will have good and not so good pilots in it like every other airline in the world!!

[apache]

BALANCE....

I am not after a p!ssing contest with you either, however I fail to see where I have misquoted you. The quoted paragraph is a direct cut and paste from yours.

Insofar as pax wanting to fly a certain airline due to the pilots' reputations... well, I would certainly HOPE that it is true, but have yet to hear ANY passenger ever refer to it. I do tend to "get out a bit", btw. I have had friends who are / were platinum frequent flyers with QF try to "avoid them like the plague, where I can". I am sure that it has NOTHING to do with the way that the pilots fly/act/behave. Moreso to do with the fact that they do NOT like the service they now get, and reckon that QF's OTP is pretty poor.
I HAVE however heard of passengers wanting to avoid an airline because the whole airline, pilots included, is considered unsafe. BUT, just because one does not choose to avoid and airline, doesn't mean that they are safer... they may just have a better PR department.
I have heard pilots say that they would never send their family on their OWN airline, unless they were the PIC!

[balance]

I sense a little thread drift here, but to address your point Apache, I think you might just be arguing youself a little over onto my side of the fence.

What is left after cr@ppy service, poor OTP, poor maintenance? Pilots....

Cheers mate!

[-438]

It would be worthwhile getting an opinion of the Jetconnect pilot standards from those Qantas Check Captains before stating the final product is equal, as I have heard a very different story directly from those Qantas checkies.

[grrowler]

What is left after cr@ppy service, poor OTP, poor maintenance? Pilots....


...corporate deals, monopolies, schedule...

[haughtney1]

Never have I read such a crock of u know what on PPrune as some of the arrogant/ignorant posters' on here have put forward.
I'm still laughing however at the QF pilots are gods gift etc type comments...

Yep those same QF pilots that I regularly saw get lost at JFK..or taxi the wrong way at BKK, or step all over everyone one else on frequency in the London TMA.

Every company has good and not so good drivers..QF and Jitconnict are NO different.

[waren9]

jitconnict?

Tired old joke people. Move on.

Do computers sold in Straya not have an "e" on the keyboard? Its also a noun so use the shift key to get a J.

Carry on.

[Gingerbread]

If today's SMH article below is anything to go by, it seems to the interested bystander that Jetconnet is simply the entre?
Captain is blown off course. Dixon bangs new drum

Geoff Dixon knows which side his brioche is buttered. When the former Qantas boss spoke at an aviation conference in Sydney last week we couldn't help but notice that he quoted from, ahem, a ''credible industry model'' for forecasting developed by Seabury Aviation & Aerospace.

Apparently, it was predicting an unprecedented decline in global passenger revenue. Dixon banged on about how that could lead to a wave of merger and acquisition activity in the sector.

It's perhaps at this point we should note that Dixon signed up to a directorship less than two months ago with Seabury Aviation & Aerospace. Did we mention that it happens to have an M&A department? Nothing like drumming up a little business.

Thing being, the next day Dixon's successor at Qantas, Alan Joyce, pooh-poohed the idea of any M&A activity, saying the ''time is absolutely not right'' for mergers with competitors and a distraction from the job of running an airline. Such a drag having to hand over power on the way out.

Meanwhile, those former private equity buyout links at Qantas just keep popping up. We've spotted another name Dixon may be familiar with on the dinner ticket at Seabury. David Turnbull, a former director of Allco Finance, which was to be a significant holder of a private equity-owned Qantas that Dixon was going to run, is the chairman of Seabury Asia.

Despite AJ's protests, I see a seachange in the wind. No M&A's, just a jointly owned Global Fleet leased to the airlines that make up the Alliance.:uhoh:

[Uncle Chop Chop]

Colgan Airways? Good one ******** what sort of comparison can be drawn there? 100% sure that my mates flying at Jetconnect (who are all 1000s hours+ 121/125 turboprop) have "seen icing" before.

Does your text message alert say "retard retard...?"

[Reeltime]

Balance whilst you are entitled to your opinion, as a qf driver, I find your comments to be an embarressment. I'm sure the vast majority of your colleagues would agree.

By expressing such an opinion publicly, you only give the Qantas haters more ammunition...please think about it.

[balance]

Chop chop? Wrong, mate! Before you get abusive, I suggest a little research on the topic. So, what does your SMS alert say chop chop, given this:

Pilots Set Up for Fatigue, Officials Say Ny Times May 13

WASHINGTON — The head of the National Transportation Safety Board on Wednesday told executives of Colgan Air, whose plane crashed outside Buffalo in February, that paying new pilots very low wages without taking into account that some would commute across the country to their jobs constituted “winking and nodding” at safety policy.

Members of the board said that the crew of the twin-engine turboprop that crashed, killing all 49 people on board and one on the ground, was set up for fatigue and inattention before they even took off, partly because of the structure of the commuter airline business.

In the crash, the first officer, Rebecca L. Shaw, 24, a Colgan employee for about a year, apparently pulled an all-nighter to get a free transcontinental trip to work. She was living near Seattle and commuting to her job at Colgan’s operation in Newark, according to board investigators. She flew from Seattle to Memphis in a spare seat on one FedEx jet, and to Newark on another, planning to sleep in a crew lounge, investigators said. The airline said Wednesday evening that her rate of pay, for a minimum of 75 hours a month, was $23,900 a year.

The captain, Marvin D. Renslow, 47, who had been with Colgan since September 2005, had flown to Newark from his Florida home the previous evening. He was logged on to a computer at 3 a.m.; investigators are not sure where he slept, but he was known to have sometimes used the crew lounge at Newark, even though the airline had threatened to fire pilots who used it for overnight stays. The average salary for a captain is $67,000, Colgan said.

The board on Wednesday held its second of three days of hearings on the Feb. 12 crash of Continental Connection Flight 3407, operated by Colgan Air. The turboprop plummeted to the ground during its approach to Buffalo Niagara International Airport. While a final report is months away, broad recommendations seem likely, especially concerning fatigue.

A Federal Aviation Administration scientist, Tom Nesthus, testified that sleepy pilots were generally unable to judge the extent of their impairment, and likely to have trouble concentrating and following multiple sources of information. In the crash, the crew lost track of their deteriorating airspeed, and when a warning system activated, Captain Renslow reacted wrongly, pulling up the nose of the Bombardier Dash 8 Q400, instead of pushing it down, to regain airspeed and improve the angle of the wings.

The plane went into a stall, meaning the combination of angle and speed left the wings unable to generate lift.

The acting chairman of the board, Mark V. Rosenker, said the company was “winking and nodding” about its pilots’ commuting practices. Another board member, Kathryn O. Higgins, said, “When you put together the commuting patterns, the pay levels, the fact that your crew rooms that aren’t supposed to be used, are being used, I think it’s a recipe for an accident.”

Board investigators found that the crew lounge was, in fact, used inappropriately, and the airline recognized the problem with the practice. “It’s not quality rest,” Harry Mitchel, Colgan’s vice president for flight operations, testified. “There’s a lot of activity in our crew rooms.”

A safety board member, Deborah A. P. Hersman, said Wednesday that Ms. Shaw had told one FedEx pilot that there was a “couch with my name on it” in the Colgan pilot’s lounge in Newark where she would sleep.

But Daniel Morgan, vice president for safety and regulatory performance at Colgan Air, said the airline had abided strictly by rules on how many hours a pilot could work in a shift, and how many hours were given between shifts, and could not control employees’ off-hours behavior. “You’re adults, you’re professionals, use the time we’ve given you to rest,” he said. Pilots could share apartments near the base, he said.

Both pilots can be heard yawning on the cockpit voice recorder.

Investigators found that Colgan’s pilots frequently live hundreds or thousands of miles from their crew base, and board members were openly skeptical that the two pilots were atypical.

Mr. Rosenker, the acting chairman, said during a break in the hearing that he and his colleagues had not surveyed commuting practices at other commuter airlines but that it might be revealing for the F.A.A., which licenses pilots and airlines, to do so.

At the hearing, Ms. Higgins asked, “What’s the nexus between commuting and fatigue?”

“Boy, that’s difficult,” Mr. Mitchel answered, adding that the answer would depend on the individual.

Over two days of hearings, the airline has varied between protesting its blamelessness and asking for help. The company said it was trying to make sure pilots complied with its fatigue policy — including a requirement not to commute in by plane on the day a duty shift begins.

On Tuesday it said Captain Renslow had lied on his job application by listing only one of the three times that he had failed a hands-on proficiency exam, called a check ride, and that the airline was hampered by insufficiencies in a federal law intended to help carriers gather information like that on job applicants. One company witness asked the board for help in getting Congress to change the laws.

But Colgan had not taken the step that some safety board experts pointed out, asking pilots to sign privacy waivers so the Federal Aviation Administration could divulge their records to the company.

After Colgan hired Captain Renslow, he failed two more check rides, but eventually was certified to fly the Dash 8, the plane that crashed.


and this:

From AIN Online: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/nyregion/14pilot.html?_r=1

Although the pilots reported ice accretion on the airplane’s windshield and wings, airplane performance modeling and simulation conducted by the NTSB show that icing had “minimal effect” on the stall speed of the airplane.

And reel? Most of my fellow QF pilots that I have talked to, agree with me. I just have the guts to say it, and not try to be all sissy and politically correct. Sorry, mate.

[horserun]

I just have the guts to say it, and not try to be all sissy and politically correct. Sorry, mate.

Your a dick mate, and you dont know what your talking about. How the **** can you bring in Colgan air into this Discussion.

[balance]

~sigh~ It's been a while since I've posted on this forum. I now remember why.

If you aren't a left wing, soft-on, pro-race-to-the-bottom, politically correct, ignorant fool, then you are pretty much vilified here. These are the loudest people, and if you have another opinion, well, it's much like Canberra. The minority win.

Outa here.