Harriers with people pods ?

[stilton]

Does anyone have any knowledge of this program. I believe the concept was to carry a special forces type in a prone position 'people pod' one on each wing ?

Was this ever actually done ?

[Gainesy]

It was a barking mad proposal but never trialed AFAIK. Late 1980s I think.

[GPMG]

I think the proposal failed when they realised that members of the special forces are by necessity pretty intelligent people, thus there were no volunteers dumb enough to trial it.

Strangely....... the Para's thought that it was a brilliant idea. ;)

[JFZ90]

It was trailed - not sure with anyone in it.

Avpro Exint pod on GR7 at Boscombe was one flavour - there was another variant too.

Link says FA2 but with all those pylons it must be a plastic one.

UK test fits Avpro Exint pod on Harrier-23/09/1998-Flight International (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/1998/09/23/43106/uk-test-fits-avpro-exint-pod-on-harrier.html)

[woptb]

I remember seeing illustrations for pax pods in the 80's while on 4 Sqdn & thought at the time it was all a bit 'boys own'.

[Wrathmonk]

You'd want the 'jettison stores' switches wire locked to safe ....

[CirrusF]

It was intended for people exfiltration, rather than infiltration.

SIS have exfil plans for every overseas agent. Whilst most exfil plans are little more than walking onto a commercial ailiner, some are very involved and complex, depending on the local situation.

[LurkerBelow]

I don't think that this was a concept just cooked up for Harriers.
When I was a lad, I spent many hours looking through my dad's vast
collection of 1940s (and 50s) science and aviation magazines and
distinctly recall seeing such scheme being mooted then for medivac
purposes (probably in WWII using mustangs and thunderbolts),
complete with perspex dome to scare the wits out of the poor
passenger.
I didn't recall seeing any followup story until now...

[ix_touring]

complete with perspex dome to scare the wits out of the poor
passenger.



What about the roll rate and associated checks at the end of the roll, while slug 12 feet off the roll axis...:sad:

Let's hope it's padded inside!

iX

[Daf Hucker]

Mosquito bombays were used during WW2 to move people between Sweden and UK, so the concept isn't that new!

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/383856-boac-mosquitoes.html

[XV277]

Germans had a similar idea in WW2 with Ju87s

[Ian Corrigible]

More on EXINT and the similar U.S. GRIER concept at Secret Projects (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1476.0).

I/C

[Tomcatvf51]

I remember many years ago, two A-4s westbound for the Wednesday night O'Club at Miramar stopping at NAS Dallas. One A-4 broke with the pilot of the broken A-4 climbing into the other A-4s blivet for the rest of the trip to NKX. The blivet was an old fuel tank hung on an external station and used to carry baggage.

[gijoe]

Barking idea...the boffins will no doubt be suggesting soon that one could 'karabiner' oneself to the side of an Apache and sit on the stubs!

From mad ideas come good ones...:ok:

[pmills575]

Gatwick Aviation has one of these, or maybe the only on display along with a mockup sales brochure (which shows it being carried by a Harrier) in our engine unit. Not a perspex nose though, it swings open to allow the occupant to get in and out. Form factor is much like the JP233? munition

Peter Mills
Gatwick Aviation Museum

[Double Zero]

In the world of special forces etc, doesn't seem QUITE so daft to me, if surrounded by approaching naughty people who wanted to barbecue me, I'd certainly give it a go, and I'd be very surprised if the kit is not still on someone's ' just in case ' shelf.

In the layout diagram I saw, pretty sure there were two people per pod, head to toe, with oxygen masks.

[LateArmLive]

If I remember correctly it was only the pods designed for the FA2 that were for 2 people. They were head to head, and the masks were made of leather..........

[jimjim1]

Rather famously, Neils Bohr was transported from Sweden (I think - he was Danish) to the UK in the bomb bay of a Mosquito during the war. I understand that he passed out due to an oxegen supply malfunction, however the pilot noticed that Neils was not responding to the intercom and reduced altitude, thereby saving his life. Neils Bohr was a Physicist and went on to contribute substantially to the Atomic bomb project in the USA. If in doubt try google - bound to be plenty of good hits.

Niels Bohr - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niels_Bohr)

[GreenKnight121]

The idea of personnel pods slung on underwing hardpoints is still active:
PPT Slide 1 (http://www.geocities.com/usarmyaviationdigest/sld001.htm)


Barking idea...the boffins will no doubt be suggesting soon that one could 'karabiner' oneself to the side of an Apache and sit on the stubs!

Like this?
Rescue on the Skid of a Cobra (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/rescue.html)


December 9, 1968 (http://www.25thida.org/TLN/tln3-50.htm)
There is room for only two passengers inside a Cobra, but in emergency situations, others may ride on the ammo bay doors on either side of the gunship.
Since Johnson was “extremely pale from the loss of blood and close to a state of shock,” Schmidt vacated his pilot’s seat for Johnson. Schmidt rode on the right ammo bay door while Newman and Nieves rode the other.
“It was a bit nose-heavy, but the torque looked all right, so we took off,” said Jackson.
The three men weathered the eight-minute flight back to Cu Chi entirely outside the aircraft, their feet on the skids.
There are several methods of performing an emergency evacuation with a Cobra, but the 3d Squadron, 17th Air Cav. has trained with the tried and true ammo-bay-door method for such emergencies.

And a recent pic of combat troops practicing riding a snake:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Bager1968/Aircraft/Helicopters/Cobraspecforinsertion.jpg

[Brian Abraham]

Not a new idea. P-38s in the Pacific WWII carried personnel in pods attached to the underwing racks. Also during WWII the Brits experimented with live drops from a Fairey Barracuda which carried two paras per pod mounted beneath each wing. Known as "Cuda floats" or "Cuda containers". Not used operationally.

[gijoe]

Green,

That's the one :ok:

G

[Buster Hyman]

We've got Smart Bombs, so why would anyone be a Dumb Bomb?:confused:

[Bertie Thruster]

Bit slower than Harrier but vertical capability though,:ok:




http://www.helibande.com/pic/modelle400/bell-47-v06-se-mash.jpg

[Daf Hucker]

Thread drift a little, but during WW2, the Soviets delivered troops into combat in containers dropped from aircraft!

THE FIRST, AND WORST LUCK, PARATROOPERS War and Game (http://warandgame.wordpress.com/2008/04/05/the-first-and-worst-luck-paratroopers/)

[andyy]

SF in people pods is probably no more "barking" than SBS being delivered via egress from SSK (when we had such things) & SSN torpedo tubes. Rather them than me.

[WhiteOvies]

The idea was used in anger on HMS Ark Royal in 2003/4 for one of the best wind ups I have ever seen. 800 NAS steward who was young and easily (mis)led was talked into accepting the ride in a 'personnel pod' under the wing of an FA2. Some of the 190 gallon drop tanks had little perspex windows in the nose which helped.

A full SE brief and pre-flight was conducted, including comms procedures with the pilot (lots of hand waving), emergency egress procedure and an engineering brief. He was dressed in bone dome, flight suit and G trousers and walked out onto the deck with most of the sqn watching. As the CO broke the news he took the whole thing quite well, sweetened by the promise of a Hawk trip or buckshee leave on return to Yeovilton. H

I recall that he took the leave, but got stung on the splash target cox'n scam a couple of days later.:D

Also remember some 'artists impressions' of the pods in Navy News. Remember thinking that Harriers are not the quitest aircraft for sneaky infil/exfil.

[alwayslookingup]

Why not just use one of the Harrier training variants (10/12)? It's got a seat in the back to carry a pass and could drop off easy enough.

From my deep and distant memory I'm sure that was used in the plot of a Jack Higgins novel I read many moons ago, to insert a member of SF behind the then Iron Curtain.

[hoodie]

From my deep and distant memory I'm sure that was used in the plot of a Jack Higgins novel I read many moons ago, to insert a member of SF behind the then Iron Curtain.

Something similar in Clancy's "Red Storm Rising", IIRC.

Whilst there are ground photos of the pod fitted to a Harrier (and Apache, I think), I'm 99% sure the pod - even empty - has never been flown on either type.

Bertie T, the disk loading on that B47 looks a bit high. :ok:

[OKOC]

Please don't tell Stelly or that Irish Ryanair geeza otherwise they'll have bloody pods all over their fleet of ac.

[TEEEJ]

Su-25 Frogfoot pod.

The Sukhoi Su-25 "Frogfoot" (http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avsu25.html)

'A set of pods were designed to allow the aircraft to carry its own maintenance support gear to remote airfields. Apparently a pod was designed to allow the Su-25 to carry a maintenance crewman as well.'

TJ