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View Full Version : Qantas:EP Predeparture Checks Reintroduced


bulstrode
7th Aug 2009, 07:43
As from the 1st of September 2009 EP predeparture checks will be re introduced.
5 questions will be asked--- 2 EP questions 2 CSO questions and one medical.
Will the caviar be making a comeback in P/C?
With Qantas everything old is new again .Ho Hum

Pegasus747
7th Aug 2009, 07:53
its about time that they took this seriously. The only thing crew have to remember is that you do it AFTER the briefing not before.

About time the important stuff was taken care of. Personally would rather they cut the briefing by 5 mins to include this and cut the crap about something going on at the Qantas Hill Song Centre!

L5Brassco
7th Aug 2009, 08:04
Pegasus
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Some questions if I may...
Who is going to ask the EP questions?
If its the managers they may meet a few crew they didn't know existed.
Is it only SYD or will other Aust bases be included?
Has it been agreed with the FAAA that questions will be asked after the briefing? It will make precison timing more of a challenge.
What happens if you answer incorrectly?
Thanks

Pegasus747
7th Aug 2009, 08:45
my understanding is that the EP instructors will be asking 5 questions. you will need to get 4/5 correct if you get less than 80 % then like EP's you will be asked subsequent question/s to get 80%. A fail will mean removal from the flight and an EP total resit and exam.

Apparently been operating in London for some time and no one has failed up there. Not designed to "catch" people out but to comply with latest missive from CASA.

EP instructors will use the same level of common sense that they always have and it will be done fairly i am advised.

As far as when you do the test....

Will be apparently only one (1) person per crew that will be requested to participate. And will only be done something like 2 days per week. Not sure what days or whether they will be the same days or random like D&A tests.

Crew can do it prior to sign on in a room allocated for the purpose and when you do the electronic sign on you will be notified by Pop up screen whether you are required to attend.

If you do it after the briefing you should notify the CSM that you are going so the bus can be held for you. No penalty for doing it before or after briefing....

That's all i know at this stage

Butterfield8
7th Aug 2009, 09:43
:ok:
Bring back Ricky Jones to run the show

Pegasus747
7th Aug 2009, 09:55
Stupid suggestion/Idea...

Why on earth would "mis" management ever bring back someone who was not only competent, humourous and experienced but popular too.

Sometime butterfield i wonder whether you are at crew drinks when making these posts :)

tmpffisch
7th Aug 2009, 10:17
Could someone (only one person to prevent thread drift) please explain what you're talking about for a layman to understand...

lowerlobe
7th Aug 2009, 10:43
Why on earth would "mis" management ever bring back someone who was not only competent, humourous and experienced but popular too.
Pegasus...We haven't always seen eye to eye but your last post is so close to the truth it's not funny.....

Your last line...
Sometime butterfield i wonder whether you are at crew drinks when making these posts
Brought back some very fond memories of the social side of the job....

I just hope the new crew engage in these activities as much as we did....a very important part of the job. :ok:

tmpffisch...The Pre-departure EP checks are questions involving Emergency Procedures.These procedures are required by law for crew not only to be aware of but up to date with any of the latest amendments....In fact these procedures are the primary reason cabin crew are on board for....

rockarpee
7th Aug 2009, 10:57
tmpffisch, just a quickie quiz for the cabin crew prior the flight.

ditch handle
7th Aug 2009, 11:05
just a quickie quiz for the cabin crew prior the flight.

Yes. One that if failed repeatedly loses you your job.

rockarpee
7th Aug 2009, 11:22
Fairdinkum. I really wasn't trying to blow it off, reeeeelaaaaax. I really must stay off the cc forums.

The Chef
8th Aug 2009, 14:18
Obviously some people don't read what is in the top left hand corner of their screen - Professional PILOTS Rumour Network. Don't cabin crew have their own forum?? Go there....

RedTBar
8th Aug 2009, 16:11
Obviously some people don't read what is in the top left hand corner of their screen
Chef,is that where this is written.
An independent family of forums covering all aspects of the Australian/NZ aviation scene.
Or do you think All aspects of aviation is just the flight deck?
Obviously:rolleyes:

Dark Knight
9th Aug 2009, 01:09
Mods, the biscuit chuckers, etc, are really having a lend of you.

After all your huffing & puffing about CC intervention in this forum where these posts clearly should be in the CC Forum thees people are having a big lend of you, trying you on.

Little posts, purely CC just to test your resolve.

Either you are fair dinkum or not; move them to CC!

DK

ditch handle
9th Aug 2009, 01:31
Ignore the trolls.............

The Green Goblin
9th Aug 2009, 02:10
Quote:
Obviously some people don't read what is in the top left hand corner of their screen
Chef,is that where this is written.
Quote:
An independent family of forums covering all aspects of the Australian/NZ aviation scene.
Or do you think All aspects of aviation is just the flight deck?
Obviously

I always took it as Pilots discussing all aspects of aviation, but hey what do I know? I'm just a Pilot on the Professional Pilots Rumour Network :D

RedTBar
9th Aug 2009, 02:34
An independent family of forums covering all aspects of the Australian/NZ aviation scene.
Well,Green Goblin it is fairly clear to most people that it says a family of forums covering ALL ASPECTS of aviation.

Not a forum for pilots to talk about everyone else.:=

Moderators,If it wasn't for a minority of pilots using antagonistic and disparaging terms such as trolley dolley and biscuit chucker then there would far fewer arguments and problems for the mods.

if these few pilots cannot live in a world with other people what hope is there for CRM.

The Green Goblin
9th Aug 2009, 03:36
Well,Green Goblin it is fairly clear to most people that it says a family of forums covering ALL ASPECTS of aviation.



Professional

1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.
2. of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies.
3. appropriate to a profession: professional objectivity.
4. engaged in one of the learned professions: A lawyer is a professional person.
5. following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime: a professional golfer.
6. making a business or constant practice of something not properly to be regarded as a business: “A salesman,” he said, “is a professional optimist.”
7. undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain: professional baseball.
8. of or for a professional person or his or her place of business or work: a professional apartment; professional equipment.
9. done by a professional; expert: professional car repairs.

Pilot

3. Aeronautics. a person duly qualified to operate an airplane, balloon, or other aircraft.
4. a guide or leader: the pilot of the expedition.

Rumour

1. a story or statement in general circulation without confirmation or certainty as to facts: a rumor of war.
2. gossip; hearsay: Don't listen to rumor.
3. Archaic. a continuous, confused noise; clamor; din.

Network

7. an association of individuals having a common interest, formed to provide mutual assistance, helpful information, or the like: a network of recent college graduates.
–verb (used without object)
8. to cultivate people who can be helpful to one professionally, esp. in finding employment or moving to a higher position: His business lunches were taken up with networking.

Not a forum for pilots to talk about everyone else

That is what the whole place is for (unless of course you can't read, have learning difficulties or just can't accept the simple truth)

You have your own forum on here as the Pilots have been "generous" enough to grant you that privilege, however, you bit the hand that fed you and now "we" are stuck with you and clearly "we" don't want you.

RedTBar
9th Aug 2009, 04:02
I support the reintroduction of the EP quiz.It not only checks to see if crew know their job but also makes the EP day easier if you have been preparing for the quiz all year.

I agree also that it should be done after the sign on

ditch handle
9th Aug 2009, 04:02
Again.

DO NOT feed the troll.


Internet Trolls (http://www.flayme.com/troll/#What)

GADRIVR
9th Aug 2009, 04:03
"Moderators,If it wasn't for a minority of pilots using antagonistic and disparaging terms such as trolley dolley and biscuit chucker then there would far fewer arguments and problems for the mods."

RedTbar...you forgot that those nasty mean spirited pilot wankers also use phrases such as Cart tart, Lolly Molly,Tech Crew Relief Device,Bouncing Barman, (or maid as the case may be!),Galley Hag, Wally (or Wendy) the Ailse Walker etc etc etc.
I for one feel the need for a screaming tantrum just thinking about the way this loud proud group of "garcon extraudinaire" are treated by the beer swilling, skirt chasing, rugby playing, bottom groping overpaid, underutilized bunch of nerdy rednecks that inhabit OUR workspace.
Kiethhhhhhh!!!!.....another Pink Gin Fizz pleath.....I feel the need for soothing ministrations....sob:{....Ohhh the pain...the pain!!!
:E

ditch handle
9th Aug 2009, 04:10
Eradication-

Internet Trolls (http://www.flayme.com/troll/eradication.shtml)

Example of Troll-

http://www.flayme.com/images/web-troll.png

clear to land
9th Aug 2009, 04:33
The PRIME role of CC is EMG Ops, service is a secondary (despite what management think, and not an issue on QF anyway :) ). As such, CC should be asked EP questions before every duty commencement. If they get one wrong, they should be asked another question. If they fail to get this right, they should be stood down. It is that simple. Pilots don't get a second chance with EMG drills, but there are two of us in airline cockpits, thus I concede a second question for CC. It is NOT THAT HARD. If you can't get one out of two EP questions right, I don't want you looking after my family in the event of an EMG!

skybed
9th Aug 2009, 07:49
through pre departure EP check long ago and it was no hassle. it will require a few to read up on CSO's etc. ,but i cant see any hassles.
moving on.:ok:

RedTBar
9th Aug 2009, 08:05
I agree with clear to land and if there are some crew who don't keep up to date then it's sayonara.
We expect the same of the pilots,engineers and anyone who has a job that is safety related.
It's a pity that we can't expect the same effort from those running he airline:(

ditch handle
10th Aug 2009, 05:09
We [QF] were doing it for years before someone changed the policy. Probably thought it might be a way to help justify their position.

Anyway. Qantas [The airline with ZERO corporate memory] is about to be re-invent the wheel by way of the policies re-introduction.

The quiz as I understand it won't be done in front of others.

Butterfield8
10th Aug 2009, 06:05
Sign on time is generally 90 mins before departure.It use to be 120 mins.Someone decided we didnt need that much time and chopped it down by 30 mins.Saved them a fortune but it meant there was no time for predeparture EP checks,Galley checks,bar preaparation,OJ delivery and head set delivery.
Headset delivery and amenity pak delivery have only recently returned.Emergency equipment checks have and always will be uppermost in importance.
As far as galleys checks are concerned if it aint on the aircraft it likely wont make it and dont dare delay an aircraft for catering .
Aircraft catering/dressing ex Sydney is a farce.Try explaining to a J/C customer you dont have tomato juice ...they are initially dumbstruck and then pissed off.Last time it happened the pax comment was"why am I not surprised after all this is Qantas"But I digress.The return of Predeparture checks is fantastic but local standbys will need to be made available.By that it is meant that some crew will need to do standbys at QCC1 or a/c will be delayed due to EP failure

roamingwolf
10th Aug 2009, 07:09
Boys and Girls,
I can't see the office thinking about that until someone fails a test and is stood down.
Worse if the kite's delayed and they can't get any more crew.
You'll see another change in this policy real quick.
those nasty mean spirited pilot wankers
GADRIVR,you called it mate not us.

drivabilongbalus
10th Aug 2009, 10:31
Butterfield8, CC report time is 60 mins before departure except in the capital of the known universe where it is 75 mins. Sure people get there earlier than that but they don't have to. Rest of your message might get lost when you quote inaccurate figures, i sure stopped to let a bull**** out at that point.

Butterfield8
10th Aug 2009, 11:54
The figures quoted were for international flights.
Eg(a) QF3 SYD/HNL Sign on Time 18:15 DEP Time 19:40
(b)QF1 SYD/BKK Sign on Time 15:35 DEP Time 17:00
Apologies

bulstrode
10th Aug 2009, 12:19
Butterfield gets pulled up for being 5 mins wrong by a guy(drivabilongbalus)s who is 10 minutes wrong.
Go Figure.
CC sign on 85 mins before departure.
13 posts since 1999 and he gets it wrong.Unlucky 13?

blow.n.gasket
11th Aug 2009, 10:56
I can see this working really well if someone fails with the 13 cabin crew compliment on the 747, NOT.:ok:

ditch handle
11th Aug 2009, 10:58
A332 International as well.......

distracted cockroach
12th Aug 2009, 00:16
Nothing wrong with asking a few questions. I agree that if you don't know the answers to straight-foward EP questions, then you shouldn't be operating. Afterall, as someone said, the prime responsibility of CC is safety (not who has the most perfect makeup/latest handbag etc)
As for the "stress of being asked questions", surely you jest! If you can't handle the stress of a few questions, then how the hell will you handle the stress of an emergency?
I've flown with a great many competent, able and pleasant cabin crew (male and female)....I've also been absolutely horrified by what I have seen at joint tech/cabin crew EP days....the inability to actually open a door was one...and I jest you not.
SOME people need reminding that their job is NOT just to swan up and down the aisle looking fabulous and acting vacuuous (I think that is a word!)...and we all know there are people out there like that. If something like a few EP questions before a flight will weed some of them out, or get them to get their s%$t together, then bravo!
Again, we are talking about a minority, but it could be a mnority that makes the difference in a life or death situation.....just because these don't arrive every day(or even at all in one's career) does not mean they shouldn't be prepared for.

lowerlobe
12th Aug 2009, 01:30
100% correct distracted cockroach....

If someone is stressed out with a pre departure EP quiz then how would they react in a real emergency?

If there are crew who do not take the safety aspect of the job seriously then this could be a wake up call for them...

airtags
12th Aug 2009, 02:07
agree
why is this even being debated !!!!!! (note: statement not a question)

baseline:
if you can't answer 5 questions (and get a second chance if you bugger it up )- then frankly you should leave the keys on the table, organise your farewell drinks and log onto seek.com

All this garbage about being "stressed" by a pre-flight quiz ...WTF?..... you are either a professional or you're not.

And if you want people to see CC as professional people (which the greater majority are) then ace the quiz with 5 quick correct answers and then pose the query why is Q paying someone to stand there and ask what you have already proven to be competent in by passing your EP's.

Frankly, I would have thought duty hour linits and a more articulate, reasonable and realistic fatigue management program would be more worthy of a fight.

AT