Bangkok Airways crash at Kho Samui airport

[alainthailande]

Information is unclear at this point: some sources mention the plane's wing hitting the tower, others that it ran off the runway. Status regarding possible fatalities unknown. It might be flight PG266.

One source says it's Air Asia and not BKK Airways.
Possible source for more upcoming information: Bangkok Airways Crash - Thailand Forum (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Airways-Crash-t285875.html)

[Whiskey Papa]

Thai plane involved in incident as it lands on tourist island, reports Sky

A domestic airliner has crashed into a traffic control tower on a Thai resort island, an official has said.

There were no immediate reports of casualties from the Bangkok Airways flight.

The official said there were at least 70 people aboard when the plane skidded off the runway and hit the tower.

[4:th of july]

Bangkok Post : Fatal Bangkok Airways crash on Samui (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/151089/bangkok-airways-plane-crashes-on-samui)

[Thai Pom]

Appears that it was an ATR-72, skidded off the runway in wet conditions and hit the tower. First reports say 10 people dead.:(

Sad Day for Bangkok Airways.

[81d]

bangkok post Saying 10 fatalities full or tourists i guess ive taken off from samu before nice airport

[crippen]

Bangkok Post reports Bangkok Airways is reported to have crashed at Samui Airport ! 10 people are reported to have died .Bangkok Post : Fatal Bangkok Airways crash on Samui (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/151089/bangkok-airways-plane-crashes-on-samui)

[Snoopy]

Swiss newspaper is reporting NO fatalities and 10 slightly wounded...which would be a much better outcome. Question is: which is it? Fatalities or slightly wounded?

[crippen]

http://bit.ly/3CTAmw

Picture from Teak door

http://img.skitch.com/20090804-dp7uiy4gkrtr5khcdye3jmmcuf.jpg

[Whiskey Papa]

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Several wounded in Thai jet crash (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8182962.stm)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/08/asia_pac_enl_1249382209/img/1.jpg

[Thai Pom]

Thai Aviation Authority confirms only the pilot died in the plane crash at Koh Samui's airport. 7 were injured.

[Thaihawk]

The Bangkok Post reports that the pilot,Khun Chartchai Pansuwan has sadly been killed in this accident.

[PAXboy]

Last at KOS was this, also in rain (from Airline Safety Network):

Status: Final
Date: 21 NOV 1990
Time: 11:15 UTC
Type: de Havilland Canada DHC-8-103
Operator: Bangkok Airways
Crew: Fatalities: 5 / Occupants: 5
Passengers: Fatalities: 33 / Occupants: 33
Total: Fatalities: 38 / Occupants: 38
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: 5 km (3.1 mls) SW of Koh Samui Airport (USM) (Thailand) show on map

ASN Aircraft accident de Havilland Canada DHC-8-103 HS-SKI Koh Samui Airport (USM) (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19901121-0)

[Capt.KAOS]

From the pic it looks like the old control tower, the new one is further up the runway?

Have been on this flight several times. Reminds me of the 1990 crash in same kind of weather.

[crippen]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46151000/jpg/_46151910_007747845-1.jpg From Teak Door.

[ZFT]

The latest Thai language newscast at 0955Z local stated the pilot is NOT dead but severely injured.

All the media, both local and foreign is jumping the gun and I would take everything including this with a pinch of salt.

This is one report I really hope is factual though.

[Sunray Minor]

That sounds more positive.

For anyone unfamiliar with the Thai media, it is usual for cameras and reporters to have access (and to full in gaps in knowledge) in a way that would be frowned upon in Europe. The front pages of mass tabloids (Thai Rath etc) are pretty ghoulish and are known to jump the gun so any reports should be taken with a healthy degree of scepticism until something more reliable come out.

[Wannabe Flyer]

One dead as plane crashes at Thai airport



Story Highlights
Officials: Plane skidded and then crashed after landing at Koh Samui airport
Bangkok Airways ATR-72 turboprop carrying 68 people, four crew members
Air traffic control warned the pilot of volatile winds before the plane landed
updated 45 minutes ago


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BANGKOK, Thailand (CNN) -- A Bangkok Airways plane crashed at an airport at a resort island in Thailand, killing the pilot and injuring 37 people Tuesday, aviation officials said.
The plane carrying 68 people and four crew members skidded and then crashed after landing at Koh Samui airport, officials with the civil aviation department said.
The ATR-72 turboprop had taken off from the town of Krabi on the west coast Thailand for its trip to the resort island of Koh Samui.
Air traffic control warned the pilot of volatile winds before the plane landed, aviation officials said.
Seven people were seriously injured and emergency officials were working to free the plane's co-pilot who was trapped in the plane, officials said.


CNN's Dan Rivers contributed to this report.

[Super VC-10]

Strong winds?

Doesn't seem to equate with the METAR

<s>METAR VTSB 040700Z 25008KT 9999 BKN018 OVC120 29/25 Q1007 A2975</s>

[Bungfai]

METAR from ADDS
VTSM 040700Z 29015KT 9000 FEW020TCU SCT120 BKN300 31/25 Q1007 A2974 TCU-NW
VTSM 040600Z 29012KT 9999 FEW020 SCT120 32/25 Q1007 A2976

[Snoopy]

In the article below (in German), an eye-witness who was staying in an apartment with a view of the runway says that the aircraft was compensating for the strong crosswind on landing, so I guess there must have been some wind. He also says that emergency services were quick to attend.

He speculated (as eye-witnesses do) that the plane had been unable to straighten up on landing as the aircraft left the runway at a 45 degree angle before colliding with the building.


Leser schildert das Flugzeugunglück in Thailand - News Panorama: Vermischtes - tagesanzeiger.ch (http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/panorama/vermischtes/Leser-schildert-das-Flugzeugunglueck-in-Thailand/story/22272103)

[Dani]

Strong winds?

Doesn't seem to equate with the METAR


You have to realize that thunderstorms in the tropics are somewhat different than those in our world. They are very short-lived and sometimes quite strong. You then get the slippery runway if heavy rainfall is present.

I never found it very difficult to handle but if you do something wrong, you can easily get into trouble.

Also turboprops are somewhat more difficult to handle in crosswind, as are tail engine driven aircraft (remember One Two Go in HKT). You have to reduce reverse aggressivly, if go around is not possible anymore.

I don't say that this was the case here as we have to get more information, I just say that this weather could be the cause for the accident.

Dani

[tbavprof]

Check your METAR times...last observation is 2 hours prior to the incident. And it's monsoon season in the Pacific ITCZ, so a lot can happen. AeroThai doesn't show any later updates or scaremets or updated sigmets.

[InvestigateUdom]

Does anyone have a list of the nationalities of the passengers? (Before I get heat, I don't mean the possibly deceased, I mean the passengers.) Thank you,.

[Super VC-10]

Accident is reported to have occurred at about 1400 local (0800 UTC), therefore the 1300 local (0700 UTC) METAR is the one to use, is it not?

[erda]

Best thing to is either hold or divert if rain around this area. As mentioned it does not last long.

[ron day]

No monsoons in Samui sir

[alainthailande]

...and it's now.

Picture taken by someone living close to the airport. Not as close-up as others that can be found on various media, but gives a good overall view of the scene.
(credit: posted by a member of the aforementioned Thaivisa forum)
http://i28.tinypic.com/25r30cm.jpg

[rubik101]

Video on the 6 pm news here shows the nose buried deep into the base of the control tower in a nose down attitude, as shown above.
Captain reported dead. Many pax injuries, mainly broken legs.
68 pob, mixed nationalities, mainly tourists.
More later.

[Dani]

I donno how you want to call it but whole Thailand is within the tropical zone of the South East Asia, where you get half a year South East wind and half a year North East, where you get a very rainy season and sometimes a dry.

That's the definition of Monsoon. Monsoon doesn't mean that you get lots of winds necessarily, but two distinctive seasons.

If you know more (and other) details please let me know.

[Weary]

Hmmmm.

Thunderstorms in vicinity......driving rain and/or strong cross-winds..........wet, possibly contaminated (?) runway........ATR 72.......narrow track undercarriage.......runway excursion.

No mystery here, sad nonetheless.

Weary

[Whiskey Papa]

According to Google Earth the contol tower is within 50 metres of, and a few metres below, the runway. Time for repositioning in subsequent re-build?

WP

[stickyb]

http://video.nationchannel.com/data/2/2009/08/04/Aa58dhe57kacbAgBiddA8.flv

[Flightsimman]

More pics!


http://images.temppic.com/04-08-2009/images_vertis/1249383244_0.75506000.jpg

http://images.temppic.com/04-08-2009/images_vertis/1249383325_0.15351400.jpg

http://images.temppic.com/04-08-2009/images_vertis/1249383360_0.60846500.jpg

Not good at all.

:sad:

[fireballxl5]

TAF VTSM 040330Z 0406/0506 27010KT 9999 SCT020 TEMPO 0407/0411 27015KT 5000 -SHRA SCT016 BKN110 BECMG 0413/0415 00000KT FEW023 BKN120=METAR VTSM 040700Z 29015KT 9000 FEW020TCU SCT120 BKN300 31/25 Q1007 A2974 TCU-NW= METAR suggested towering Cu to the northwest of the airfield at 0700z..the last official METAR before the accident.

[Jose22]

We live just across the channel from Koh Samui on the beach at Koh Pha-Ngan (http://imgur.com/qrbCx), about 18Km from Samui airport with a clear view of aircraft approaching from north and north west directions.

Just before 2pm, a very dark-looking front begun rolling in from the West. A few minutes later it hit us with gusts of approx 30-40 knots. Rain was falling horizontally, and coconut tree branches were being thrown about like feathers.

Looking at the ThaiVisa forum pic, I can see that the aircraft approached the runway from the southern end. With strong westerly gusty crosswinds forcing the pilot to land at a steep angle to the runway's orientation, it's my opinion (as a non-pilot) that as the plane touched down it could not straighten fast enough and consequently veered off across the grass strip into the old fire station near the control tower.

[fireballxl5]

0412448550 11458 72804 10280 20244 30057 40064 60082 71022 82876 333 10325 58001 70078=
1200z Synop report for Koi Samui gives 8mm(1/3rd of an inch) of rain over the preceding 12 hours...(the 6 group)

[fireballxl5]

Agreed!

SYNOPS from 48550, Ko Samui (Thailand) 0412448550 11458 72804 10280 20244 30057 40064 60082 71022 82876 333 10325 58001 70078= 0409448550 21458 60000 10270 20256 30054 40061 71061 82846 333 59005 60085= 0406448550 32560 42705 10320 20249 30070 40077 82245 333 58010 70097=
Synoptic weather reports for station suggests 32c 90F at 0600z, dropping to 27c 81F at 0900z after showers. Max temp of the day was 32.5c(1 group on the 1200z synoptic weather report).

[BoeingMEL]

...that the new tower was built because the old one was located (very) close to the runway. Maybe the old one should have been demolished once they's occupied the new one? bm

[Thomas Doubting]

Is the building part demolished by the port wing the Fire Station? Very close to the action if it is.

[FlyingCroc]

Never land in a thunderstorm! Maybe a microburst? These microbursts a terrible, just as bad as a small tornado. Seems like this plane just got pushed of the runway. Why do these things happen so often here in Southeast Asia? I am sure the pilots here now this type weather very well.

[postman23]

@ Dani
Also turboprops are somewhat more difficult to handle in crosswind

Not true, you have the advantage of quick response through propwash when advancing the power levers and flat pitch on the prop when in idle. The ATR is certified for 45 knots xwind landing. Most jets for 25...

[Farrell]

postman23 - before the flight simmers get all moist.....

....while the ATR can land in a 45 kt x wind.......it applies to a dry runway which is clearly not the case here.

Farrell

[postman23]

True Farell, just wanted to point out the higher controllability in a turbo. Thanks though :).

[segajet]

My theory developed while flying in this neck of the woods, is that a thunderstorm coupled with a 15 kt. crosswind caused the water to stay on the runway, greatly reducing the braking action, which was never reported.Generally twice round the hold and the storm passed, the wind changed and the runway drained naturally.

[Knife-Edge]

Is the building part demolished by the port wing the Fire Station? Very close to the action if it is.


Looking at picture 1 on post #33 it certainly 'appears' that 2 fire tenders on the port side are involved in the accident!

[Dani]

Not true, you have the advantage of quick response through propwash when advancing the power levers and flat pitch on the prop when in idle

You are right. But if you put your props to low pitch for braking you expose a huge disk into the wind. Big exposition means big resistance. If the wind doesn't come from the direction you want, you suddenly loose directional control.

Of course you have to reduce propeller resistance and ad forward thrust, but as I said, you have to do the right thing, otherwise you loose control.

Dani

[Waterfall]

Got that today in the mail
Date: 04 AUG 2009
Time: ca 14:30
Type: ATR-72-212A
Operator: Bangkok Airways
Registration: HS-PGL
C/n / msn: 670
First flight: 2001
Engines: 2
Crew: Fatalities: 1 / Occupants: 4
Passengers: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 0
Total: Fatalities: 1 / Occupants: 72
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: Koh Samui Airport (USM) (Thailand)
Phase: Landing
Nature: Domestic Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: Krabi Airport (KBV)
Destination airport: Koh Samui Airport (USM)
Flightnumber: 266
A Bangkok Airways ATR-72 passenger plane was substantially damaged when it skidded off the runway at Koh Samui. The airplane collided with the airport control tower building. METAR about the time of the accident (07:30 UTC): VTSM 040700Z 29015KT 9000 FEW020TCU SCT120 BKN300 31/25 Q1007 A2974 TCU-NW= [Wind 290 degrees at 15 knots; few clouds at 2,000 ft; scattered clouds at 12,000 ft; broken clouds at 30,000 ft; Temperature 31 deg C; dew point 25 deg C.; 1007 MB; Towering CB to the Northwest]

Sources:
» Bangkok Post
» Bangkok Airways


looks like the pilot is dead.:(

[Wycombe]

Going back to the picture in Post 27, it looks like the VOR is possibly even closer to the runway than the buildings that the aircraft unfortunately hit :confused:

[ZFT]

How silly to place the VOR close to the runway!!!!

[donut_thailand]

Not sure if this belongs here or in jet blast...Audio is in Thai.

YouTube - Ongeluk op Koh Samui 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oQVoBfw9Qo)

[BoeingMEL]

..became the fire-station. Cheers bm

[OutOfRunWay]

I agree absolutely. Reverse or even Beta on most turboprops can bite very hard. If you try to use it asymetrically and then come across a patch of standing water, where you suddenly loose tyre grip, you can get a very nasty surprise. Similiarly, rear mounted jets in reverse are known for merrily pulling you off the runway when you start aquaplaning, as was suggested earlier in this thread.

Regards.

[GoDirect]

The ATR72 has a lower max crosswind component than the 42. For the 72 the limit is 35 kts on a dry runway (width equal to or greater than 30m), and if the runway is less than 30m wide, the dry limit becomes 25 kts. They are good to handle in crosswinds but can be unforgiving in the wet with high crosswind components. The longer fuselage of the 72 coupled with strong crosswind components requires high vigilance.

[Jim Boehme]

A video of a recent event in Indonesia I believe demonstrated the above concepts with a turbo-prop runway excursion to the right followed by #2 engine prop-strike and blades coming loose at high RPM and many feet pounding the tarmac. On Youtube.

[Xeque]

QUOTE from Samuijack on ThaiVisa.com
I witnessed this tragic accident and was listening on my airband radio.

Two airbus aircraft took off on runway 35 in short succession, at the same time as the ATR72 reported downwind for runway 35 and asked for a wind check. The tower informed him the wind as 300/15kts. The pilot reported turning base and was given the wind as 290/18kts and cleared to land. At this time it began to rain heavily and I was interested to see the landing. The pilot seemed to make a textbook landing and continued down the centerline of the runway ,slowing down, to a point apposite the terminal building (maybe 500 meters) when it seemed he applied the brakes and the plane turned 90 degrees left (as if the right hand brakes failed) colliding head on into the old tower building.
UNQUOTE

[stickyb]

During the discussion of the previous crash at Phuket, concerns were raised that the clearances either side of the runway were not to the correct standards.

Does the same concern apply here?

[Navy_Adversary]

It is a good job that the aircraft didn't swerve to the right and go into the passenger terminal which is opposite the old ATC tower.
However I feel that there may be a small water ditch on the terminal side.
It must have been very horrifying to waiting passengers as they were sitting in the lounge chairs close to the runway.

We will have to wait for the official enquiry which one would hope is not a cover up like the Phuket one, but it seem like samuijack has added some very valuable information.
The co-pilots version of events will perhaps corrabate that.
Personally I have always found PG to be a good and safe airline.

[35hPA28]

In the video linked in post #50 it looks to me that the right propeller blades are not in the reverse thrust position (0:10s in the video). If that is the case, would that suggest reverse was not effected in this propeller? Or maybe the a/c veered off at very low ground speed?

[ZFT]

The co-pilots version of events will perhaps corrabate that.

That might take some time - The reports that the F/O suffered a broken leg only are unfortunately quite inaccurate. He is in a critical condition in a Bangkok hospital after being medivaced up yesterday.

[ozthai]

Any news on the condition of the FO ?
Is he OK now ? Hope so.

Will be forever before Thai DCA release even a preliminary report.
Anyone heard anything as to the cause?

[ZFT]

The FO is now out of the ICU and is expected to make a full recovery.

[Sonic Bam]

Hull hasn't been broken up yet, still sitting on the far side of the runway with screens round it.

[Geebz]

So what was the final accident report conclusion? I have always said it had to be a PEC fault. I have over 6,000 hrs of ATR time and had two PEC faults at highspeed. Those are much more violent than any v1 cut. I nearly went off the runway in one, required full left tiller to prevent an excursion.

I brought this up to the airline and ATR, that training for such an event wasn't sufficient. Of course, I was ignored. Later, after I left that airline, one Captain went off the runway. Instead of them admitting the problems with the PEC, they fired him but then the union got his job back.

I'm wondering if the Bangkok Airways ATR crash was similar in nature. Can't find anything on the internet about it.

ATR72 is a great workhorse of an aircraft, but the company is notorious for blaming all accidents on the pilots, as oppose to design flaws.

[Jose22]

Remains of fuselage now on side of road (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/657105-remains-of-airplane-moved-from-airport/?p=6930926)

[kwaiyai]

Unofficially, It wasn't a PEC fault. I heard the Capt for whatever reason over corrected with Rudder leading to the excursion. Not sure if you have landed in
USM Geebz but if so and I have in that Aircraft I think you can understand what I am saying.
Regards,

[Geebz]

Haven't landed USM. I pulled up a couple youtube vids to see what you're referring to. Looks challenging for sure but no harder than what I fly on 737s now (short, ungrooved, island runways coupled with swirling winds due to nearby terrain). IOW, nothing a senior Captain couldn't handle. Unless I see an official report, I'm not buying that a senior pilot over-corrected.

If it was a PEC, ATR would be the last to admit it. That I'm sure of. Anyway, I'm surprised there's no "official report" out yet. Doesn't bode well for Thai accident investigatory authorities.

If someone has a link to the report, pls post it here.