Turbulence rocks Continental flight

[Jetstream2008]

Minor news story only, if anyone interested.

From CNN.

Severe turbulence shook a Continental Airlines flight Monday, injuring at least 10 passengers and forcing the aircraft to divert to Miami, Florida, an airport fire official said.

Flight 128 was originally headed from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, to Houston, Texas, but landed at Miami International Airport, the official said. Between 10 and 15 passengers were injured by the turbulence, but the official did not have details on their injuries.

The CNN Wire - Latest updates on top stories - CNN.com Blogs (http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/)

[Cacophonix]

Passengers injured. A bit more than just the old 600 mph and 30 degrees rocking from side to side scenario then. Comes with the job for these guys though and seems to have been well handled.

[Gringobr]

ITCZ ????

[bnt]

CNN is now saying (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/03/plane.turbulence/) 26 people received minor injuries. It happened 50 miles north of the Dominican Republic. Nothing dramatic on the weather that I can see.

[neilki]

Inter Tropical Convergence Zone =lots of atmospheric energy & instability
please; keep your seat-belts fastened..

[Rob1975]

..."4 serious condition, 22 with bumps and bruises" - could have been avoided. Would be intersting to know how many of us who fly keep their seatbelt on even loosely fastened as I do,:8 just in case, as there is little or no warning of clear air turbulence, for example...?

[Mikey56]

Another passenger, Fabio Ottolini, said some flight attendants who were standing in the aisles when the turbulence hit were thrown against the roof.

That's the real kicker here is it not - how do these unfortunate folks protect themselves in what seems to have been a sudden drop?

[Avman]

What niggles me so much in these turbulence related threads are the righteous types banging on about keeping your seat belts loosely fastened. Whilst it's true that some pax don't do this, a great many do. However, where unexpected turbulence hits, it will always be the case that there are pax moving about the cabin for valid reasons. Therefore, no matter what, in such instances there will always be some pax who get caught out. They may very well have had their belts loosely fastened the rest of the time.

[Cacophonix]

Rob1975, do you keep your seatbelt loosely fastened even when you visit the toilet? :ugh:


The statistics don't always lie!

If Rob1975 keeps his seatbelt fastened throughout the flight, save for that trip to the cubicle he has a statistically insignificant chance of being injured by turbulence.

The cabin crew on the other, are generally standing, unrestrained and often pushing a heavy trolley. This fact coupled with their greater proximity to other hazards such as ovens, hot water etc. make them far more likey to be injured in that low probability (but still possible) CAT event.

Rob is right. Stay buckled, not too loosely if you can.

[Rob1975]

righteous, moi?:rolleyes: nah! ...just reckon most people DON'T wear their seatbelts loosely or otherwise as soon as the seatbelt light goes out! I was on a recent flight where the a/c slightly slowed just after leaving the taxiway, still 100m from the gate, still moving - more or less everyone stood up, opening the overhead lockers prompting CC to again say sit down, seatbelt sign is on etc.. no-one did! :ugh:

[rgbrock1]

Not only do I keep my seatbelt securely fastened during all aspects of flight (aside from the very occasional relief trip) I also keep my hands securely fastened around the seat arms. This, in turn, creates that white-knuckled effect. Said white-knuckled effect lasts for the duration of any given flight. Can you say: fear of flying?!!!!!!:uhoh::uhoh::uhoh:
(Said death grip on seat arms and seatbelt tightened to the point of semi-suffocation is usually, however, mitigated by copious amounts of alcoholic beverages. Preferably served free of cost.)

[ex-XL-in-exile]

I had a good one not long since coming into LBA from Tenerife, a lively bit of chop on approach caught out a pax who'd decided the seatbelt lights didn't apply to him and went walkies to the toilet. A stern word from our (most junior) cc and an awakening crack to the elbow soon taught him the error of his ways.

More widely - when in cruise and with belt lights off this kind of thing is always going to happen if cat happens without warning. I was once told, in the space of two days, to encourage pax to walk up and down the aisle to prevent dvt while also advised to keep people plugged in if at all possible.

If the turb don't get em, the blocked up veins will :\

[wileydog3]

touring the web, report from one of the pax said the Capt had advised they were entering an area of possible turbulence and had instructed the pax to return. Some did.. some didn't.

More touring.. about 2000 pax per year injured by turbulence. and in those cases 91% were NOT wearing seat belts.

CNN had some pictures of the interior with some pretty smashed up ceiling panels. Some oxy panels BROKEN and others smashed in. Considerable force obviously by the pax impacting the ceiling.

[SLF3b]

Just not true - I was on a 747 years ago that fell through a hole in the sky. There was no warning - no seat belt sign. I was wearing the seatbelt (though not tight) and felt it holding me in my seat. The cabin crew were off their feet. No one was hurt.

It can come out of nowhere.

[WHBM]

There's nothing silent about it! Prior to entering turbulance there's normally a 'bing bong' when the seatbelt signs illuminate.Not at all. Pretty much the same happened to me (and doubtless has to others here). AA 767 LAX-LHR about 18 years ago, over the Rockies. Several pax and crew injured, diverted to Chicago to offload them (though no media attention). In the cruise with no seatbelt sign, crew in galley preparing meals. Suddenly vibration, pitch down, semi-recover, then really nose down - during which the seat belt light came on. Unfortunately one FA was already headed for the ceiling by that time, came back down onto pax seats. Incidentally, in that case I would say the bulk of pax around me were indeed wearing their belts loosely, just as stated in the safety briefing before departure.

Skipper said later that it came from nowhere, and he passed back ride reports to others following the same routing, who had similar experiences but with everyone secured.

[belfrybat]

As an aside, even if belted you can still get injured by trolleys, CC and pax flying about.

[AugustusWhittle]

Just thought you may like to know that GMTV here in England this morning reported the Bermuda Triangle as a possible cause and the interviewer suggested aircraft should avoid the ITCZ if it is so dangerous. Gotta love all that in-depth research!!

[SLFguy]

Don't watch GMTV

[SLFguy]

Oh boy... run while you have the chance r1fly.:eek:

[dontdoit]

r1fly - top tip, never comment on something that you can't spell.:ok:

[HotDog]

I don't know what you guys are bleating about? Seems to me like a fairly factual report as seen by a pilot, if you can forgive him mis spelling turbulence. It may have been a slack news day but glad it was missed by the usual press reports.:rolleyes:

[lomapaseo]

Looks like moving threads on incidents like this to SLF forums just incurs multiple thread start ups in the Rumors and News forum.

My speed reading thinks that there has been yet another bus plunge.:}

[raffele]

Already being discussed and the original thread was moved to SLF yesterday:

http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/383692-turbulence-rocks-continental-flight.html

[AnthonyGA]

I notice that the media place a great deal of emphasis on the mayhem and injuries caused by the turbulence, but make very little mention of the importance of seat belts or the fact that the people injured are generally always people who are not wearing their seat belts.

Be it an airplane or a car, you should always have your seat belt fastened unless you absolutely need to leave your seat. I don't understand what compels people to unfasten their belts if they aren't going anywhere; if you're staying seated, why not keep the belt on?

[raffele]

I notice that the media place a great deal of emphasis on the mayhem and injuries caused by the turbulence, but make very little mention of the importance of seat belts or the fact that the people injured are generally always people who are not wearing their seat belts.

Be it an airplane or a car, you should always have your seat belt fastened unless you absolutely need to leave your seat. I don't understand what compels people to unfasten their belts if they aren't going anywhere; if you're staying seated, why not keep the belt on?

Pretty much everyone who reads or comments on threads on turbulence incidents will think exactly the same. And the major reason being that we all keep our belts fastened when in our seats.

Problem is, no matter how many horror stories people hear (or, to you and me - news on a minor incident in the air), they will always think "it'll never happen to me" and will be lax towards something as simple as keeping your belt on.

Aside from making it against the law to sit in your seat without your belt on whilst in the air, there's nothing that can be done. Experts will continue to say keep your belt fastened. We here on these forums will continue to say "they should've kept their belt fastened". And cabin crew will continue to mention it as part of their safety brief. And the normal Joe Bloggs traveller will continue to unfasten their belt when the sign comes off until they experience the possible consequence of doing so.

[phineas]

Perhaps passengers should be made aware that failure to wear a seat belt may result in reduced compensation should there be an incident.

[lomapaseo]

Perhaps passengers should be made aware that failure to wear a seat belt may result in reduced compensation should there be an incident.

Reduced? compared to what?

I don't believe that there is a compensation chart.

I believe its all according to the lawyer arguments with the ultimate judgement being a jury of ignorant citizens with time on their hands or who couldn't get out of jury duty.

frankly if it was me, I would just plead that the belt buckle opened under pressure or I slipped out of it.

[phineas]

Prior to car seat belts becoming compulsory in the UK, any compensation for an injury resulting from an accident would be reduced by 25% if the occupant was not wearing a seat belt.

[bealine]

A pound to a pinch of pig muck that most of the injuries were sustained by cabin baggage!

[agent.oen]

In the airlines I fly with there's always an announcement advising the pax to keep their seatbelts on during the flight even when the 'fasten seatbelt' light is turned off. The majority of the pax don't seem to give a toss about it. Then they complain they've been tossed about.

Seems like such cases of injured pax is a more effective way of getting the message across albeit it being a painful one.

*rant over*

[13Alpha]

On a BA flight from Amsterdam to Heathrow a couple of years back the captain, prior to departure, made the routine announcement to keep our belts loosely fastened even when the signs were off - and then went on to say "and if you want to know why, turn to page xx of today's Daily Mail" which (apparently, since I'm not a Mail reader ;) ) contained an article about an incident, very similar to the Continental one, where some Virgin crew and pax had been seriously injured in turbulence.

It got everyone's attention.

13Alpha

[dc10fr8k9]

I agree, most prudent Captains these days simply make it abundantly clear to all that turbulence can come out of nowhere, and that any wise passenger would always wear their seat belt when seated, regardless of whether the sign is on or off.

[Gibon2]

A pound to a pinch of pig muck that most of the injuries were sustained by cabin baggage

Quite so! My monogrammed Louis Vuitton cravat valise sustained a nasty scratch to the underside. It will never be the same. I shall be writing to the airline.

[lomapaseo]

were any Taylor guitars broken?

[Chu Chu]

I was on a flight from PHL to ARN last month, and the seat belt light was on for the whole 8 hours. There was a little minor turbulence a couple of times, but no obvious reason for the light to stay on (and no word about it over the PA). If we'd hit real turbulence when I got up to use the toilet after 6 hours, I'd have sued the airline for making me guess when it was safe to get up. Even it I'd lost, it would have been worth it to hear the airline argue in court that I should have stayed strapped in my seat for 8 hours straight.

[thats entertainment!]

Not sure about other airlines but Emirates has a pretty good PA from the flight deck re seatbelts, something like - we strongly advise you to keep your seatbelt loosely fastened at all times, we certainly will be doing so up front.

On a lighter note, Eddie Izzard has a solution for dealing with passengers who do not listen to safety announcements...

YouTube - Eddie Izzard - Glorious - Plane Safety (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOZFe37TQPM)

[Mr Optimistic]

As a rather infrequent flier, less than 200 flights in 55 years, can I make the comment that severe turbulence like described here is very rare (it would prevent many pax ever flying again) and I have never been badly shook up. Ex-business flights are very often sold as part of a holiday with the explicit message that the flight is part of the pleasurable experience. If your holiday starts here, people perhaps aren't keen to be instructed on reading safety cards or keeping in their seats (let alone being told you can't go to the toilet now).

Is it so surprising they behave as they do without recourse to wondering about their intelligence ?

I keep the belt fastened all the time and hate having to go to the toilet, but that is because I don't like flying and don't want the CC to be forming an opinion about me. Ditto watching the safety demo (I will have already read the card and looked for the exits), but I pay attention because I don't want the CC thinking otherwise.

So a handful of people get hurt every once in a while: is that really enough to make this big a deal about the fundamental limitations of your customers or to suppose that they should be scared into keeping in their seats for 3,4,5...10 hours or brow beaten because they want to go to the toilet at an inopportune moment they couldn't have foreseen?

I am sorry about the quality of people you have to accept as customers: I don't like them either, but I am not accepting their money so perhaps that isn't too bad ?

And once and for all: I know how to tie a double bow, just make sure you get the exits open quickly when I need you to.

[PETTIFOGGER]

As a passenger, I believe that it is ineffective to keep the seat belt sign on all the time, unless it is rough. When the sign is used judiciously, people take more notice. Experienced passengers generally know when to expect turbulence even if there is no announcement by the crew. I always buckle up when traversing the Bay of Bengal for instance. Concerning the severity of turbulence, I think that most once in a while passengers have little idea of how fierce it can be, hence their nonchalance about the seat belt sign. Of course, I was an inexperienced pax once, and found out the hard way - firmly attached to the ceiling (deck-head?) for a few seconds, then the floor. I finally landed on one of the cabin crew, and knocked her out. I had been walking back to my seat when the seat belt sign went on. The aircraft was a Martinair DC10. It was still in the sheds when I left BKK 3 days later.

[DX Wombat]

There is something which has worried me for the last few years ever since DVT became a popular affliction. (I'm a nurse and definitely NOT belittling the seriousness of DVT). Once it became more recognised passengers were recommended to get up and walk about. Prior to this it was almost, but not quite, forbidden to do so except when necessary - toilet etc. Some flights these days seem almost like an airborne athletics arena with what seems like hordes of passengers roaming free in order to prevent DVT. There are other ways of preventing DVT - exercises which, as in hospital, can be done when seated - something I have always done. It seems to me that this mania for wandering around the aircraft is increasing the danger and risk of injury should turbulence of sufficient intensity be encountered. As others have said, turbulence and other phenomena are not always predictable so would it not be more sensible to return to the idea of remaining seated unless necessary? Perhaps a short video of suitable exercises could be made available on the in-flight entertainment. Just a few of my thoughts on the matter. How do you as crew feel about having so many passengers wandering about? I feel it must surely contribute to an increase in the number of injured persons.

[Pugilistic Animus]

what ever happened to LIDAR development?

PA