QF 744's to op with 13 crew

[qfguy]

Watch this space but in the next day or so you are going to see flights (747-400's) starting to operate with only 13 cabin crew due to cosmetic config changes.
:mad:

[CabinCrew747]

These flights have been operating since the beginning of July. With the cosmetic changes to the aircraft, the 13 crew complement actually works very well and I found, was indeed easier then a 15 or 16 crew flight in normal config.

Regards

[lowerlobe]

This seems to be an amazing statement....
the 13 crew complement actually works very well
Is this because of service changes?

What do you mean by cosmetic changes?

How could having 3 less crew work better?

Not attacking you just curious.....

[Going Boeing]

qfguy, since you seem to have forgotten that there are other crew members (other than C/C), why didn't you start this thread in the Cabin Crew forum?

[lowerlobe]

Going Boeing...Are the pilots the only crew on an aircraft?????

D & G is for ALL aspects of aviation....that means all aviation not just the flight deck.

[funbags]

lobey, you almost got it right. But read the really big letters at the top left of the web page. PPRUNE, not PFARuNe! :E

[twiggs]

The answer is that QF cabin crew are not allowed to play there anymore, because people like Lowerlobe don't know how to follow rules.
The rules here are far more relaxed.

[Going Boeing]

LL, you missed my point. I was not being derogatory of C/C but I was pointing out how stupid it is to think only in terms of your own working environment. It takes many staff both on the ground and in the air to get the pax safely from A to B. As this post was clearly aimed at the issue of C/C establishment on QF aircraft then the Cabin Crew forum would be the most appropriate place to post it.

[GADRIVR]

I find it hard to understand why tech crew can't understand why they aren't considered to be at the top of the tree in a "SERVICE INDUSTRY".
It's just common sense isn't. Cabin crew are the faces that the passenger......oops.....on no.......ahhhh.... hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!.
Sorry....tried a windup......broke up laughing!:}:):ok::E

[Jet-A-One]

Can anyone elaborate on the config changes?

ps I don't see why this thread shouldn't be on a "Airline and RPT issues in Australia, enZed and the Pacific" forum.

You fly-boys really need to take a chill pill sometimes :{

It takes more than pilots to make an airline...

[kotoyebe]

These cosmetic configs have been running for a few weeks at least. The official line was that it was to align the saleable configs better with demand. So as there is less demand for P and J at the moment and more demand for PY and Y, they are using seats from the higher cabins, but selling them as a lower class. Nothing new in this. They have been doing this for years from time to time. It's just become a little more permanent due the the GFC.

If you remember, they stated that they will no longer offer P class to various destinations including SFO, and EZE. But they are still using 4 class aircraft. So they can sell more PY and Y by utilising the P seats (as J class I presume).

So I guess the other reason they have done this is to reduce costs. Instead of crewing and catering 4 classes, they only need to do it for 3. Small savings I would have thought, but I'm not an airline manager. Some of the cosmetic configs are quite wierd. IIRC, one has part of the J cabin as J, and the other as PY.

[noip]

Gasp,

13 Crew ...... Let's see ... 13 crew, minus 2 pilots leaves .......

and they need 12 CC to be legal ... hmmm GD lives!

Oh .... you mean CABIN crew......

Or is the upper deck the new crew rest lounge?

N

[twiggs]

26 crew on what? The Starship Enterprise? :confused:

[Shlonghaul]

26 crew on what? The Starship Enterprise?

It's called an Airbus A380 :E

[twiggs]

And so what is the point of comparing the amount of crew on an A380 with that on a 747?
Just like comparing the amount of crew on the Enterprise, it's pointless.

[jungle juice]

How many crew do we have on the Dugong and how many do SIA have?
An independent family of forums covering all aspects of the Australian/NZ aviation scene.Pontius Funbags and Going Boeing,Can you read the 2 words highlighted above?:rolleyes:

Back to thread, this is about the reduction in cabin crew once again.Which we all know you will agree with and we know why.:=:=

[twiggs]

Actually the thread is titled "QF 744's to op with 13 crew".

This is the first I have heard of it anyway so I would say it is just a rumour at this stage and an exaggeration as it would only be for specific configurations.

If it comes to fruition, I would guess that it would be for the 2 class 744 only, which means a reduction of one in line with the 4 class 744.
No biggy really and if it's gonna save a few jobs, I don't see a problem.

[ditch handle]

Doubt we'll ever see a reduction of crew compliment on the Dugong however.

Passenger satisfaction levels far too important on that particular aircraft:rolleyes:

[twiggs]

You need to check your facts etrust.
SQ have 17 on their 744.

[jungle juice]

Actually the thread is titled "QF 744's to op with 13 crew"So what you are saying is that you agree with me and the thread is about the reduction in cabin crew.
Posted by twiggsI don't see a problemSo was right when I said.this is about the reduction in cabin crew once again.Which we all know you will agree with and we know why,here is a simple Yes or NO question.
Does SIA operate their 744's and A380's with more cabin crew than we do?
YES or NO
Here is another simple question.
Can you access PPrune from the BOS desk?
YES or NO

The office loves acronyms so here is another FOL.

[rammel]

SQ have always seemed to operate with more cc than QF. Their seating config on B747 and A380 are pretty similar to QF yet they have always had 1 to 3 more crew. They seem to get good customer service reports and QF's are so so. Could more crew be the answer to improving customer service? I don't know, I'm not management.

MH and TG also have more on the B747 than QF, even before the GFC.

[Dropt McGutz]

I doubt they'll increase numbers because of cost. You can bet those Singapore flight attendants get paid a lot less than the Qantas ones and there in lies the problem.

[twiggs]

And on top of that, it has been announced that SQ pilots and cabin crew will be taking a 10% pay reduction over the next few months.

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/186204-singapore-airlines.html#post5094480

[ditch handle]

Too true Twiggs and something that also occurred around the time of SARS.

Very nice of SQ that they paid back "and some" when times improved.......

_________________


"The airline's staff, who had taken pay cuts of up to 15 percent, will get a one-off lump sum payment to fully reinstall the slashed wages, plus 15 percent, and a further bonus of 2.05 months' salary, as per an agreement brokered with unions last year."

[lowerlobe]

Exactly right Ditch....and as twiggs said SIA crew are taking a wage cut but in the end will be paid back....Hell will freeze over before that happens with this company.

Did the company ever reinstate the crew member they took off before when things were grim....

Did they ever give anything to crew who's workload increased or who took a pay freeze when the company ended up making record profits?

Well,we know who did recieve a bonus for those moves and it wasn't crew....

It's good to see that SIA has paid back crew who did the right thing for the company and it's a pity that same effort has not been made with this lot...

rammel....Yes other airlines do have more crew and get better satisfaction feedback.At the end of the day it is hard to compete with another carrier that has more cabin crew

[puff]

SIA FAs are on about $42K Singaporean plus bonus's etc.

Cabin Crew Careers -- Singapore Airlines (http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_UK/content/company_info/careers/cabincrew_details.jsp)

[lowerlobe]

You can bet those Singapore flight attendants get paid a lot less than the Qantas ones and there in lies the problem.
The cost of living in Singapore or Bangkok is substantially different as well.....

Speaking of which,I've heard rumblings yet again that the BKK base is about to be wound up....

Rumours are a fact of life in flying but if this one is true will have a huge impact....

[Taildragger67]

Thread drift alert

LL,

The cost of living in Singapore or Bangkok is substantially different as well.....

You reckon? How? I'm finding it at least as expensive as Syd-o-nee. OK, the MRT might be cheaper than Sydney trains, but living in anything but an HDB flat - :eek:. And don't even think of owning a car. Even if you do, fuel at >$2/litre means you can't actually do anything with it. Fruit & veg aren't too bad, but meat will more than balance that out.

No, Singapore is not a cheap place to live.

[twiggs]

Maybe not for expats like you, but for SQ girls who do live in HDB flats it is.
Not to mention a slight difference in tax rates.

[Wod]

Watch this space but in the next day or so you are going to see flights (747-400's) starting to operate with only 13 cabin crew due to cosmetic config changes.

The key is in the cosmetics. For those outside QF, cosmetics normally involve downgrading a zone to be sold as a lower class to match booking demand. e.g. sell First as Business and Business as Economy.

It can also mean taking a zone completely off sale in order to accommodate crew sickness up-route, or run a series of flights with reduced crew if commercial demand is low on all affected sectors. Doesn't affect service standards, just saves accommodation/allowances when revenue is down.

Been around as a practice since the 70s.

Not necessarily a conspiracy issue at all.

[lowerlobe]

Been around as a practice since the 70s.

Not necessarily a conspiracy issue at all.
I don't think anyone has suggested a conspiracy with this Wod....merely that the company wants to do this....yet again I might add.

This is also not something that has just happened since the 70's.This is something that has happened ever since people have been employed by a business....

Any business will want to cut costs and this one is no different.They have done it to tech crew and they will do it to every other department they have...

The point is that SIA have rewarded their staff for their actions in cutting costs but has this happened in our company even after record profits.....:oh::oh::oh:

Taildragger67...If you are unfortunate enough to live permanently in Singapore why would you want a car?

It's far cheaper to catch a taxi anywhere even if you don't want to pay the ridiculously low price of public transport.

As far as the rest of cost of living goes..Although Singapore is probably one of the most expensive locations in Asia it is cheaper to holiday than many places in australia......so I don't agree at all that Singapore is more expensive than Australia.I don't know about he taxation rates but I can live a lot cheaper staying at a hotel in Singapore than I could staying at a hotel in Sydney or Melbourne.....and then try to buy a house in a decent area of Sydney or Melbourne at the moment and don't even think of renting.

[VH-Cheer Up]

Doubt we'll ever see a reduction of crew complement on the Dugong however.

Passenger satisfaction levels far too important on that particular aircraft

Plus, it takes so many more hands to push start it when it won't go of it's own accord.

[packrat]

QFs focus is not on service.....its all about lip service.
QFs focus is not on the customer.
The focus is on costs and executive bonuses.
It has been like this for at least 7 years.
The GFC has just increased the cost cutting zeal
Under Joyce so far nothing has changed

[kotoyebe]

Under Joyce so far nothing has changed

At least his emails to staff are nicer than Darth's!

[skybed]

Twiggs mentioned
"If it comes to fruition, I would guess that it would be for the 2 class 744 only, which means a reduction of one in line with the 4 class 744.
No biggy really and if it's gonna save a few jobs, I don't see a problem. "

The 747 2 class has 412 pax and 14 cabin crew (29.42 ratio)
The A180 (Dugong) has 450 pax and 21 crew(21.42 ratio) Thats 28% more work on the 747/2 class .Take off another crew member and it would increase to around 35% more work on the 747/2 class.:=
twiggs does not see a problem with that. what planet is she on???:yuk:.
solution: lets open a maccas at the back galley, that would work!

[roamingwolf]

The A180 (Dugong) has 450 pax and 21 crew(21.42 ratio) Thats 28% more work on the 747/2 class .Take off another crew member and it would increase to around 35% more work on the 747/2 class.
twiggs does not see a problem with that. what planet is she on???
Mate,don't come up with actual proof and logic on pass numbers.twiggsy doesn't want to know about them cause like she saidI don't see a problem.
Whats a 28% or 30% increase in work got to do with anything.
Her reply to you mate will no doubt be a beauty.

[twiggs]

Good one Skybed,
you seemed to have missed the part that the A380 is not a QAL aircraft.

[skybed]

twiggsy last time i saw the offer to apply it was open to QAL? your point?:rolleyes:
I was under the impression the Dugong looses one crew member? :ugh:
ok if you compare 3 class configured aircrafts there is still a 25% more work load on the 747's.
lets put more crew on the A180. the boyzs maybe able to cope then with the service.:oh:

[twiggs]

Isn't it funny how JJ & kaboom go away for a while and in their place, up pops skybed and roamingwolf.
It's like tag team.

[roamingwolf]

Her reply to you mate will no doubt be a beauty.
you seemed to have missed the part that the A380 is not a QAL aircraft.
yeah I was spot on with that .:E
watch out skybed cause she'll go to the mods if someone tells her she's wrong.
twiggs,I don't post all the time but when you make a stupid post someones gonna let you know.