FAs´ (lack of) knowledge re pilot training

[flapsforty]

This was posted originally by another poster.
Who deleted it, not wanting to cause strife between the two groups.

Since I think it contains the kind of useful information we should get during initial training but which many of us only acquire after many years on the line, I am re-posting it. (without the original author´s name so he/she need not feel bad about any snide remarks being posted by the uninformed)

In Australia, recently a friend, a B737NG Captain, was on a Crew Bus going to the airport after an overnight, when an FA asked him how long the Captains course was. When he told her that his was 3 months, she said that she thought it would only be a week. But, the interesting point was she didn’t think he was a ‘Pilot’ until he completed that course and that most of her FA friends thought the same. She then asked the FO when he hoped to be a ‘Pilot’! Both the Captain and FO could not stop laughing. The Captain quickly told her that the FO had the same licence (ATPL) and same aircraft endorsement (B737NG) as himself. Although, he said that the Captain normally had more experience on the aircraft than the FO.

The Captain explained to be an Airline Pilot in Australia you first of all had to obtain a Private Pilots Licence, and then a Commercial Pilots Licence and finally an Airline Transport Pilots Licence in addition to gaining a Multi-Engine Command Instrument Rating to allow you to fly in bad weather. He added that Pilots for the airlines mainly came from a background of GA or Military and had a thousand or more hours behind them before they started. He said to her that it took nearly 8-10 years to reach the airlines of which only 3% made it. Captain’s and FO’s, he said, were required to keep current through EP’s, CRM Courses, Simulator Sessions and Line Checks. The Captain said Simulator Sessions were done every 4-6 months.

The FA told him that all they learnt on course was that the Captain was overall responsible for the aircraft and that the FO helped him on the Flight Deck. He told the FA that she had a very important job and that the FA’s were the eyes and ears behind the pilots to let them know if anything unusual happened. Maybe for interest FA’s should do visits to the Company Simulator and even ATC to gain some understanding of aviation and what happens, the Captain said.

I just thought I’d put to you and get your thoughts.

[dollydaydream]

Perhaps employing FA's not partaking in a brain-sharing scheme may be a step in the right direction!

[ozangel]

It's a shame those perceptions exist.
Unfortunately in flight attendant ground schools at DJ and QF (of which ive done both) you spend more time watching DVD presentations of some balding CEO congratulate you then proceed to tell you how he and his 'crack team of cronies' plan to steal every last cent they can from you, than actually meet flight crew, and learn about whats involved.

The only contact you get in the big airlines with a pilot is some management type giving you the usual 'loss of cabin pressure' class. I know of one casual at Qantas who started with me in 07, and is yet to meet/be introduced/introduce herself to a pilot!!! (a sad indictment of both sides of the iron curtain!).

Exceptions exist in the smaller airlines. From personal experience, the Alliance pilots looked out for the girls (It was easier to go with girls, being one of only 2 boys at the place) like they were their own daughters. That was in the early days of the re-birth, may have changed - not sure.

That said, have flown on a crew at virgin where of the 6 crew onboard (2 pilots, 4 cabin crew), all of us had a commercial and an instructor or instrument rating.

It used to be funny at virgin, going in and offering their tea or coffee before departure, along with their meal choices written down - and depending on the captain/fo, addressing them by title - presenting their meals as close to you'd expect in business class as we could muster up. The look of shock on their faces was both satisfying and entertaining! (My record - one captain drank 19 cups of tea on a quiet 2hr flight out of sheer shock he was being attended to).

[Boomerang_Butt]

Yes a lot of people these days (CC I mean) don't have much grasp of what it takes to get up the pointy end of a big jet... then again the old way of coming in through aviation channels seems to have changed to doing your time at Mickey D's or Woolworths before you start your flying career in the cabin (nothing wrong with that just how it seems these days as cxrew are trending towards younger ages)

I have every respect for what they do up the front & I wouldn't want their job when the bells & whistles start going off.

Fortunate enough to have worked my way through GA jobs before getting to the airlines as it's given me a better understanding of what they do up front. And how they got there.

So, when anyone makes the old joke about pilots being cheap, I say, well of course, with the amount of $$$ they paid for training I'd be cheap too! :}

[AirborneSoon]

Thankfully I have not flown with a crew like that, not even close. In fact I rarely fly with anyone who has less than a bachelors degree and many of them have pilots licenses. I think the OP was right to delete, this post smacks of the stereotypical view of FAs and is definately very far from being the "norm". Should I ever encounter anyone that dense on an aircraft I sincerely hope they are sitting in a passenger seat. :hmm:

Many FAs have come from what people would term "real careers" not Woolies or McDonalds. They are often professionals from industries outside of hospitality and hold university level qualifications. Can we stop with the FA stereotyping now pls?

[Otto Throttle]

Even some of the flight crew came into aviation from the likes of Woolies. Personally, I think that's where only the very best people come from. :ok:

[Boomerang_Butt]

Can't believe you're all getting offended that I mentioned Woolies. I meant that unless you have worked in aviation prior, you have to specifically go & look up the knowledge because most of the time airlines don't give CC anything other than a half hour talk by the CP on 'how planes fly'- which is usually extremely basic.

I wasn't stereotyping, just observing that with the trend towards crew getting younger and younger, there seem to be less of them that have a lot of knowledge of the industry prior to coming in, unlike in the past. A lot come in right out of high school or first jobs, having had little exposure to aviation unless they've gone out deliberately to get a flying license or such.

Can we get over it now?

[AirborneSoon]

Now before this flares up out of proportion I just want to add...I am not offended. Merely pointing out that from where I stand (in the cabin) there's a small proportion of very young crew for whom aviation is their first fulltime job and a large proportion of people over 28, who have had at least one former career behind them. I am merely asking people not to tar all crew with the same brush.

Incidentally, I did not come from an aviation background but was fully aware of the training process to be a pilot, before I became an FA. And I do believe that the misconception portrayed in the initial post isn't representative of the FA community at large.

[flapsforty]

FAs come from all backgrounds; I our mob I see everything between straight from school to 2 PhDs. What we have in common is that during basic training (3 months) we learn spectacularly little about the mechanics of flight, what goes on in the cockpit, how the pilots get where they are and about the reasons behind the many rules and regs.
(The same holds true for our pilots, they learn next to nothing about cabin ops, but ´educating´ pilots is outside the remit of this forum. )

Flying the line you can educate yourself to a certain extent, but it is entirely voluntary and not that easy. Even with an interest in all of the above, and after many years flying the line and jumpseating in the cockpit for my commute, my knowledge and understanding were very patchy.
Reading PPRuNe I have learned more about what they do up front and why, than I did on board.

As a result of that, cooperation with the pilots has become a lot smoother, and because of that, more enjoyable and inherently safer.

I believe that if both companies and individuals would take more responsibility for cross cockpit door knowledge between the 2 groups, a lot of irritation and aggravation would be eliminated.

More fun for everybody, pax included.