Merged: Fifty years of Jets across the Pacific.

[Wod]

QF have a PR piece out celebrating 50 years of jet services across the Pacific. About Qantas - Newsroom - Media Releases (http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn/au/publicaffairs/details?ArticleID=2009/jul09/3938)

It contains this gem
Qantas was the first airline in the world to operate commercial passenger jet services across the Pacific and the first non-US airline to operate jet aircraft.

Bit tough on BOAC and the Comet.

Yes I know they meant QF was first non-US airline to fly the 707, but that's not what they wrote.

[Dark Knight]

This will be questionable: Did not Pan Am fly the B707 prior to Qantas and across the Pacific if not around the world?

DK

[Crew rest.]

A bit tough on Aeroflot too, who operated the Tu-104 in the mid 1950s before the 707 even entered service. CSA (Czech) also operated the Tu- 104 from 1957.

The French started operations in the Caravelle on 27 July 1959 and thus also beat Qantas by 2 days.

So, that would make Qantas maybe the 5th operator of jets outside the USA, not the first.

:cool:

[puff]

Poor bugger writing the press release is probably 6 months out of a PR degree and probably has a knowledge of aviation similar to the average apprentice hairdresser !

Look at wikipedia it probably says it in there!

[Pedota]

This appeared in the on line version of The Australian . . . quite an achievement really.

See Qantas celebrates 50 years in jet age with Boeing 707 | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25852252-36418,00.html) to view the video.

Cheers

Pedota

Steve Creedy, Aviation writer | July 29, 2009
Article from: The Australian

IT guzzled fuel and it belched black smoke on take-off, but when the Boeing 707 propelled Australians into the jet age 50 years ago it struck a decisive blow to the tyranny of distance.

Qantas is today celebrating the 50th anniversary of the first commercial passenger flight across the Pacific and the first service to be operated using its then ultra-modern 707s.

Flight EM774 left Sydney Airport at 3.55pm on July 29, 1959, bound for San Francisco via Nadi, Fiji, and Honolulu.

The B707 replaced propeller-driven piston-engine aircraft such as the Lockheed Super Constellation L1049 and cut journey times in half.

On the kangaroo route, this meant a journey between Australia and the UK was slashed from 63 hours to 33 hours. And it was a far cry from the 12 days it took to complete the journey in 1935.

The new jet could avoid the turbulent conditions that sometimes plagued the “Connies” and there was little vibration, as well as greatly reduced noise, as it cruised at 885km/h at altitudes between 35,000 and 40,000ft.

A promotional brochure at the time boasted: "A typical itinerary of a 707 passenger could read breakfast in London; luncheon in New York; supper in San Francisco. In fact, with the crossing of the international date line, it's quite possible to fly from Sunday to Monday and back to Sunday again!"

The new planes also provided more seats: 84 in a two-class configuration compared to 60 in the same configuration on the Constellations.

Separately, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce said there was still too much capacity on certain international airline routes, especially on those between Australia and both the UK and US.

"Some carriers are acting rationally and some carriers are still adding to capacity in an environment where the market is in decline," Mr Joyce told reporters in Sydney.

He said price competition had been strong "across the board" and that it had led to significant discounting.

"We've been saying that can't continue, the aviation industry clearly takes some time to adjust to capacity levels," he said. "That will occur, but at the moment there are a lot of routes where there is a lot of discounting taking place, and there's too much capacity on certain routes and that is leading to losses on those routes."

However, he noted that Qantas's freight operations had seen less of a decline in recent months and that there was some strength in freight operations out of China and the US.

However, he said it was "too early to say if green shoots are here to stay".

[Teal]

Here's the link to Qantas' YouTube posting of that video:

YouTube - 50 years of Qantas Leadership in Jet Services (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4lnbaeOKpk)

Some more pics and info from here:

Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/)

[FGD135]

Congratulations Qantas.

What a magnificent aircraft the 707 was.

[blueloo]

Was that Steve Jobs sitting in first class with that fashionable skivvy ? :}

.....and why did they include the knobs with hats on the 380 flight deck........

[Plastic fantastic]

What beat up!
50 th " anniversary" of operating an aircraft that was retired some 25 years ago? Tripe...utter tripe!
Surprised they haven't unnounced Captain J Trav doing a commemorative flight in his flying RV.
Obviously this is part of the new campaign to bring back premium passengers. They are starting by trying to rekindle memories of the " good old days".
The aircraft may have been a great plane as the company also may have been. Pity the company reputation has been tarnished by events like:
-Maintenance standards degradation
-Disintegration of in flight service , not to mention ground service
-Pushing economy and generally most domestic passengers onto lowcost operations
- Safety concerns like Bangkok.departures without runway lights
-The " Warren" and adventurous FA episodes.
Hudson Fysh would be turning in his grave!

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Plastic Fantastic, I think you have missed something. Have another crack at trying to figure out the significance.:ok:

[Plastic fantastic]

Have had another look at it and I still smell the same rat. They weren't the first jet operator nor was Icarus their first pilot. However, they would have you believe that they and only they have done it all.If you look at the ad, it subliminally suggests that they were the first 707 international operator,they were gods of safety and service , a far larger operator than they were( are) and now with the 380.... more of the same. The truth is somewhat different.

Lets face it, in 1959 how significant was a tin pot country like Australia not to mention an airline to said tin pot country with a name that people couldn't spell?
Jet setters, rich and famous, polititians to Australia? Spare me, please.
A plane or two a week across the Pacific with a couple of stops compared with the many jets that would have been crossing the Atlantic or to South America? Until Paul Hogan went to LA with a bucket of "shrimp", who cared about Australia as a destination.
It's an ad and like all advertising, it is all about creating perceived differences in essentially identical products for the prupose of making money.

[jungle juice]

Lets face it, in 1959 how significant was a tin pot country like Australia
Well,that just about says it all.....:yuk:

In the 40's an ambitious country up north called Japan obviously didn't think that....

Plastic sounds like a 10 pound pom who has never fitted in....

[psycho joe]

Actually, I think plastic is right on the money. :D

[Crew rest.]

The significance of this wonderful piece of propaganda is that Qantas faces an agressive competitor on the transpacific routes in the form of Voz . In time this competitor will spread its network into other Qantas markets and continue to erode the QF balence sheet.

I vaguely remember that when Ansett started International operations the Qantas advertising response was to annouce "75 years of Qantas". Here we have a similar response and athough the recent QF press release found in http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/382959-qf-fifty-years-jets-across-pacific.html
contains many significant 'factual discrepancies' I have no doubt that their marketing will be successful.

[plainmaker]

Another example of poor standards in journalism - look at Creedy's quote

"Qantas is today celebrating the 50th anniversary of the first commercial passenger flight across the Pacific and the first service to be operated using its then ultra-modern 707s."


Steve Creedy has it wrong again ...... unless PAA, BCPA, ANA and the SUPER Constellation flights were all 'non-commercial'.

Plainmaker

[Ken Borough]

Crew Rest,

Maybe you are too young to appreciate the past but what is wrong with celebrating milestones of an historic nature? Qantas has a rich history and for eons has been a leader in world aviation - so much so that others follow. For example, who led the world with Business Class?

So, are you really saying that all those years ago the planners at Qantas sat down and thought 'gee, in 50 years time a new carrier will be competing against us on the Pacific and we must have a plan for a celebration that will blow their marketing campaign out of the water?'. Get real.

The real marketing coup that gazumped Ansett had to have been the unveiling of VH-OJB and then flying the colourful beast instead of a 767 to Osaka on the same day as Ansett's inaugural to Osaka. Knowing that the "world's largest piece of artwork" would steal headlines in Japan, what a brilliant way to derail the marketing efforts of a new competitor? And not long after Ansett gave itself a lot of free publicity with its well executed own-goal "wheels up" at Sydney!

Lastly, there can be little or no excuse for sloppy and careless journalism that we see today. Is it die to igorance or lack of care or a combination of both?

[Buster Hyman]

Well, regardless of the intent, my first jet flight was on a 707 back in '73. Of course, we had to fly in a 707 to SYD as the 747 would never be used into MEL...:rolleyes:

Surprised they haven't unnounced Captain J Trav doing a commemorative flight in his flying RV.
Assuming you mean "announced", then I'm sure you'll recall JT's son passing away & you'd understand that he's not in the mix for celebrating with Qantas at the moment.

[ampan]

Quite right: This PR gimp thinks that nothing is newsworthy unless it was done first. (But if being first was the issue, then Pan Am must own the Pacific, I would have thought.)

At least the Chief Exec focused on the real acheivement.

[Buster Hyman]

I'm suprised he didn't seek Rain Man for a quote....:hmm:

[ampan]

The sloppy journalism spoils the real story, which was that QF never lost a passenger during those 20 years across the Pacific. The unsung heros must be the maintenance staff. (And also, perhaps, the navigators.)

[Wod]

QF never lost a passenger during those 20 years across the Pacific.

They nearly did tho'. The origin of "The White Rat", as I recall it, was a well-oiled American pax sitting in the transit bar at HNL , not responding to re-boarding calls, on being asked if he was a Qantas pax replied "I dunno, but the tail has a white rat painted on it." Nearly went without him.

And I agree with others; the sloppy PR work is disappointing, but self-advertising is right, proper and normal (How do we know the V OZ and Delta have just started Trans Pacific flights, was it Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalism, or did the airlines put out Press releases?)

[Crew rest.]

G'Day Ken,

It's great that QF has operated jets for 50 years now, however I, like many others, take umbridge to the assertion that QF was the first to operate jets outside the USA. There are also some doubts to the accuracy of the statement that QF were the first to operate jets accross the Pacific.

What becomes a little sickening is the continueous flow of pap from the QF PR department of Qantas being such a world leader to the point where the staff belive their own propaganda. It also detracts from the historical significance and operational contributions that have been made by many other worthy companies. Eg: Pan American Airways pretty much wrote the book on long range international operations, Finnair would be the company to see for expertise in cold weather operations and Lan would have to set a most commendable example of an air carrier that routinely deals with issues of hot/high/ice/cold/mountains/overwater/remote destinations. The contribution to world aviation by these carriers, to name a few, exceeds whatever it was that QF has done.

So, are you really saying that all those years ago the planners at Qantas sat down and thought 'gee, in 50 years time a new carrier will be competing against us on the Pacific and we must have a plan for a celebration that will blow their marketing campaign out of the water?'. Get real.


I am not saying that at all.


The real marketing coup that gazumped Ansett had to have been the unveiling of VH-OJB and then flying the colourful beast instead of a 767 to Osaka on the same day as Ansett's inaugural to Osaka. Knowing that the "world's largest piece of artwork" would steal headlines in Japan, what a brilliant way to derail the marketing efforts of a new competitor? And not long after Ansett gave itself a lot of free publicity with its well executed own-goal "wheels up" at Sydney!


I thought the marketing coup/gazumping was when I saw on T.V. Paul Keating get off an aeroplane for the APEC meeting in Osaka that had ANSETT AUSTRALIA painted on the side. The PR from QF1 at BKK might be something that we dont wish to mention.

Look, how great it is to celebrate 50 years of jets at Qantas. Fantastic. However your PR department could at least give that facts about QF. They have been caught out saying things that are not true which leads me to wonder what else they have mis represented.

[Plastic fantastic]

Buster,
Sorry I forced you to use your superior intellect to de-cypher my spelling.
It is actually a rather annoying problem of transposing typed letters that Vista is causing at the moment.I should use "spell check" but ,then it would give you and the other "Grammar Gestapo" even less to do.
I was really only thinking of QF's side of the deal with JT.I would respect his privacy but, would/should QF?
I also note that he has a new movie out so, I am bound by your comment to ask if he has stopped making money in his grief . Granted some movies are held back from immediate release.
I don't understand the "Rainman " bit. Was it intended for me?
I just wanted to point out that it IS advertising and there IS a bit (or more than a bit) of bullsh-t there.There is in all advertising.I just like ( and like to excercise) my right to call it for what it is .......Bullsh-t!
Shouldn't be room for it in aviation but, it has fuelled quite a few careers and maintained/ created/saved one or two airline reputations ....... and you would know which airline comes to mind first.
You know Buster, I really loved your username and a couple of your early comments made me think (for a while anyway) that you just might be a well known friend of mine. Quite a colourful , intelligent,whitty, sharp minded character and ... notorious with the ladies, hence the name! I actually approached him once but, he denied it. Now I am sorry I embarassed myself by even thinking of the possibility and I am even more sorry that I brought it up with him. Absolutely no way you could be him.
:8

To the twit who referred to WWII /J-pan in the 40s bit (Jungle Juice ..was it?) ,get out of the jungle because your brain has started to rot! I meant that in '59 Australia wasn't an important destination for commercial AVIATION,and it wasn't unless you wanted to buy wheat or sheep. I don't think the people mentioned in the QF clip were "buyers". The demand to and from Europe and the US would have been many, many times what is was to Aust, as it would be today for god's sake. I do agree that in the 40s as in the 80s , it was attractive realestate to "a country to the north". The difference was that in the 80s, your ancestors had already fu-ked up the legal/political system enough to allow them to come it and buy it rather than having to send tanks, as the were going to do in the 40s.
"Muchy cheaper and in smaller packaging that we do so much better than your race" :}

[Plastic fantastic]

Crew Rest,
I wish I was as eloquent as you are.
I agree with you 100%
Unfortunately, I use a more "blunt object, liberally administered" method.
I would like to remind all that I believe that even the pilot of QF1 admitted that he "Fu-ked up" and QF have done a brilliant job of making the smoldering wreck of a PR nightmare, virtually disappear.
Funny, that QF1 would have been after the culmination of what, 40 odd years of jet flying mastery over the Pacific and all other places aviation!
:E

[lowerlobe]

Lets face it, in 1959 how significant was a tin pot country like Australia
I read your post as well and you didn't say anything like I meant that in '59 Australia wasn't an important destination for commercial AVIATION
I would say you have given yourself away with your next quote...
The difference was that in the 80s, your ancestors had already fu-ked up the legal/political system
Then you come up with this rubbish.....
-Maintenance standards degradation
-Disintegration of in flight service , not to mention ground service
-Pushing economy and generally most domestic passengers onto lowcost operations
- Safety concerns like Bangkok.departures without runway lights
-The " Warren" and adventurous FA episodes.
Name one airline that has not had problems.....and tell us what nationality you are and which airline you work for....sounds like yet another bitter and twisted ex Ansett worker to me:oh:

[Dark Knight]

1949 July 27, The British Overseas Aircraft Corporation (BOAC), the national British carrier, first introduced a commercial jet airliner into service. The 36-seat Comet 1, built by De Havilland, flew for the first time on July 27,

1949 BOAC inaugurated the world's first commercial jet service on May 2

1952 Initial flights took passengers from London to Johannesburg in South Africa, with stops in Rome, Beirut, Khartoum (in Sudan), Entebbe (in Kenya), and Livingstone, near Victoria Falls. With the Comet, passengers could travel comfortably at 480 miles per hour (772 kilometres per hour), making it a revolutionary leap in air travel. The Comet also provided conditions that contrasted sharply to piston-engine planes: the planes were vibration-free and relatively quiet. Comet 4 was in commercial service from October 1958 to November 1980

1956 September Aeroflot held the distinction of offering the world's first regularly scheduled and sustained passenger jet service with its Tupolev Tu-104 aircraft. Aeroflot opened service from Moscow to Irkutsk (in the Soviet Far East)

1958 BOAC ordered 19 Comet 4s in March 1955 and a Comet 4 (G-APDA) first flew on 27 April 1958. Deliveries to BOAC began on 30 September 1958 with two aircraft. BOAC's G-APDC initiated the first transatlantic Comet 4 service and the first scheduled transatlantic passenger jet service in history, flying from London to New York with a stopover at Gander on 4 October

1958. Rival Pan Am inaugural 707 service began three weeks later. BOAC had rushed ahead and inaugurated its own transatlantic service on October 4, 1958, just three weeks ahead of Pan American. BOAC used the new De Havilland Comet 4, which incorporated improvements to remedy the problems with the older Comet 1

1958 Pan Am Boeing 707 Clipper America starts the jet age with the first scheduled transatlantic service in American built jets. On October 26, 1958, with military bands playing and national press coverage, Pan Am Boeing 707-121 Clipper America, with 111 passengers and a crew of 11, departed New York's
In the first two years after it introduced jets, Pan Am accomplished the transition from propellers to jets over its worldwide routes: to Europe and Africa, the Caribbean, Central and South America, Australasia, and the Middle East. The 1960 annual report could proudly announce that "the free world has become a neighbourhood"

1959 Ahead of all of its non-U.S. competitors, QEA took delivery of seven Boeing 707-138 jet aircraft. These were introduced in turn on both the Southern Cross and Kangaroo Routes during the same year.
VH-EBC: Departed Sydney at 1535 on the inaugural Qantas 707 service, Flight Number EM775/775-001 to Nadi, Honolulu and San Francisco. Flying time Sydney to San Francisco was 14 hours 57 minutes - a commercial record. The aircraft was renamed "City of Canberra" for the inaugural flight and subsequently retained this name.

1959 Pan Am - First airline to operate a scheduled round-the-world jet service; Pan Am first Pacific jet service was to Hawaii; then onto Japan and the rest of the Asian network.

DK


Plastic f:

Dear Oh, Dear; what a huge shoulder chip weighs you down and only a modern plastic one at that. An excellent suggested starting place would be a good read of World Aviation history followed with History of the World.

During your aviation studies particularly note just what the pioneers of this industry did and achieved

Toss in a few short courses, to name a few, debating skills, sound English writing, logic, politics, courtesy & civility, common manners, responsibility and respect for your fellow man.

Perhaps then, and only perhaps, visitors here may take your odd ramblings with a grain of salt not dismissing them as the twisted ramblings of a diminished Ferkwit!


"It is also true that the only way to understand that development is through narrative, and that to appreciate narrative it is necessary to know some facts. To downgrade facts in history is a bit like saying one can study science without doing the experiments that provide the data on which theories can be postulated"



DK

[Plastic fantastic]

Lowerlobe,
You appear to be an intelligent person. Must a reference in an aviation forum, in a thread about Pacific commercial aviation, specify that in all replies or can some things be taken for granted.
However, since you want to make this an all ecompassing affair, please tell me in which way Australia was significant in 1959? You may choose any forum you care to. My education is obviously incomplete.
As to my " nationality", don't you really want to say 'ethnic background'.
I could be a fine and upstanding muslim, chinese/Afghan part Aboriginal born to 3 generations of Australians; ie; Australian. My nationality and where I earn my living are my business.I don't give a flying f-ck what your background or employer is and wouldn't ask.
As to the "rubbish" list, go ahead and attack it but,please come up with facts.
The way you like to brush those aside suggests (to me )that you may belong to a certain airline that is also quite good at the bluff and BS game.
Having said that, we are back to the thread:
Qantas celebrates 50 years on jet...........

Obviously, I have nothing much to do today!

[im sparticus]

wod you are an idiot and your story is total bs, anyone whos anyone knows its "the red rat" cause back when Qantas got its nickname the rat was actually red DER.

[Plastic fantastic]

PS,
Lower lobe,
I have just opened a bottle of red so let's settle down for the "longhaul", if you like.
Sorry , can I use that term or does some "airline " also claim to have the worldwide rights to that term?
(so as not to be misunderstood or accused to not saying "ANYTHING LIKE THAT", I would like to state that, by using the word "term",I am infact referring to the word in the first sentence "longhaul", which shall for the all intents and purposes and, for the whole of this reply stand for the word "term" and "longhaul", interchangeably, unless specifically stated otherwise.)
:}

[Plastic fantastic]

DK,
No chip on my shoulder but, there was a chip in my hip that required reconstruction in ....plastic, I think.
The only "History of the World " that I can recall is the version by Mel Brooks. Is that the one you are referring to? After Blazing Saddles, it's one of my favourite pieces of mindless mayhem

[Wod]

wod you are an idiot and your story is total bs, anyone whos anyone knows its "the red rat" cause back when Qantas got its nickname the rat was actually red DER.


Sorry, I'm right: you're wrong. Check the age difference.

I was in QF when the story first surfaced (joined in '68). I could research it, but I think the solid red tail with white kangaroo came in about 1974. Prior to that the flying kangaroo was a variety of red outline 'roos on a white background - never solid red.

[im sparticus]

nope your wrong and twice this time the nickname has been around Qantas longer than you have and it didnt come from pax in a lounge, it came from an atc controller who didnt have radio contact with the plane. anyone whos anyone will know the kangaroo has been a solid red more than once.