GF to Baghdad and Najaf in Iraq. Your opinion please.

[Sidestick Priority]

"We started flying to capital Baghdad 33 years ago and currently a Gulf Air team is working hard to start services once again to this historic city from September. We are also planning to start operations to the holy city of Najaf as soon as the airport infrastructure there is in place. The addition of Iraq to our network will not only strengthen our reach within the region but also our position as having one of largest and best-connected networks in the Middle East, something we should be very proud of and build on."

Survey provided by FreeOnlineSurveys.com (http://FreeOnlineSurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?sid=mwgft732hp7alh2623383)

[Propellor]

Gulf Air can and will (re)start the route, like they did for Kolkata, Dublin, etc., etc. And when it nears the end of its incubation period, some wise crack will order its closure - paving the way for others to operate and make money there.
Anything new?
Of course, when GF starts, there will be bickerings about safety, "My nationality does not allow me" etc. etc. , but it will subside in a month's time.

[carevna.katerina]

Oh, no! Emirates is one step behind! Again! :{

[boiler]

For Najaf, EK will be out of luck as it can only handle narrow-bodies for now. Not sure about BGW but I assume it could at least handle an A330. Safety will be always a concern, for aircraft and for the pax coming and leaving the airport.

Spot on Propellor. Too many other destinations are included in the 'etc. etc.' bit.

[Sidestick Priority]

Would you operate Gulf Air flight to Baghdad?

Yes 26.7%
No 73.3%

[Che Guevara]

Of course, when GF starts, there will be bickerings about safety, "My nationality does not allow me" etc. etc. , but it will subside in a month's time.

I think the 'bickerings' about safety are already happening to some extent and are totally legitimate. Considering that just about every democratic country in the world has up to date and strongly worded travel advisories for Iraq, I'm not sure all will subside as you predict.

Below is just one an example:


There is extreme risk to your safety in Iraq.
We strongly advise against all travel to Iraq and all xxxxx citizens there should depart.
The security situation is extremely dangerous. Hostage taking is prevalent, especially in urban areas.
Widespread violence and kidnappings continue in Iraq, especially in Baghdad, Basra and other urban areas. Many hostages have been killed or remain missing. Threats to foreigners remain high and hotels and restaurants frequented by foreigners, civilian vehicles and aircraft continue to be targeted. Police stations, government buildings, mosques and churches, the Multinational Force and Iraqi military forces also continue to be attacked. Attacks target not only those associated with the Iraqi government but also non-governmental organisations (NGOs), western organisations (UN, ICRC), contractors working on reconstruction projects and journalists.
Baghdad is the major seat of the insurgency and is prey to intensive, ongoing violence. The international zone in Baghdad (the Green Zone) remains under threat and is subject to rocket and mortar attacks.
Presently, few commercial airlines use Baghdad International Airport. Flying by commercial aircraft in Iraq is not recommended as flights have been targeted. The road to the airport is extremely dangerous as vehicles using it are frequently bombed or fired at.
Travel by road is extremely dangerous in many parts of Iraq because of bombings, explosions, robbery and carjacking. There are daily occurrences of roadside bombings in and around Baghdad, main supply routes and Basra.
Curfew times vary throughout the country, can be lengthened at short notice, and must be adhered to. Queries regarding the times should be directed to the MND (Multi National Deployment) headquarters of a particular area.

Apart from this type of information being sent to some of us, there is also the issue of Life Insurance.....check the fineprint.

[uglyraedII]

well i think its a good idea now! GF is not that stupid that it wont look at safety. There are hundreds of people trying to fly in and out of the city ( mostly out). well then if its safe, then GF would have a new route to fly:). it would be a shame if it didnt.

[carevna.katerina]

I'm sure the GF guys are are delighted to have another lovely turnaround destination :} Used to work there but left after 14 months. It's sad to see how incompetent management can turn once a respectable company into a complete mess...

[Trader]

Your life insurance is void when flying (or going to) Iraq- at least most policies will state this.

Best guess is that GF will be unwilling to cover its crews (ie. to the same level and condition you may have in your policy). There was something in their own docs that once statd they were REQUIRED to do this. Not sure if it still there.

[Chuck Y]

I believe we are about to operate there just to prove that the situation has improved rapidly there as ordered by our big brother- the US.

I believe all embassies have advisories AGAINST travelling there but does GF care? Of course not. The best way to avoid going there is to insist that the company provides addition personal insurance for us.

From the British embassy

Civilian and military aircraft arriving in and departing from Baghdad International Airport and flying to other major cities in Iraq have been subjected to attack by small arms and missiles. However, the standard of security at Baghdad International Airport’s civilian terminal has improved. There are still concerns and we urge you exercise caution if using the civilian terminal.

Iraq travel advice (http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-living-overseas/travel-advice-by-country/middle-east-north-africa/iraq;jsessionid=C96643A030405517277B573DFFDE9E4E.tomcat1)

From the Canadians

Few commercial airlines provide passenger service in and out of Baghdad International Airport due to current conditions and the threat of surface-to-air missile attacks from insurgent forces.

Travel Report for Iraq (http://www.voyage.gc.ca/countries_pays/report_rapport-eng.asp?id=133000)

& US

Travelers choosing to utilize commercial carriers to enter or depart Iraq should be aware that, although there have been no recent attacks on civilian aircraft, the potential threat still exists, as does the high risk to road transportation as described above.

Iraq (http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_921.html)

[40&80]

Despite GF pilot contracts listing extra war zone life cover would be purchased by GF to underwrite a pilots own accident and/or life insurance
policies.... in the first Gulf War... this did not occur.
Pilots that requested it were immediately places on leave (with no leave ticket out of Bahrain available)
Their request for this coverage was mentioned to them later as their contract renewal date approached...one pilot I knew faced with this uncertainty...simply told Gf to forget it and joined SIA on a B747 where he remained until retirement.

[Che Guevara]

I believe we are about to operate there just to prove that the situation has improved rapidly there as ordered by our big brother- the US.


Chuck, who knows you might be right, however I don't agree. I am more inclined to suspect this is driven by local politics of solidarity as well as the new RJ connection.
Interesting to note that the big Gulf Airlines don't seem to want to get involved yet...I wonder why? I'm certain they are just as aware of the potential but obviously don't want to risk it at the moment.....like every other airline in the world apart from RJ and Austrian......

Safe flying all.

[Capt Hair Y Balls]

As EY starts Chicago we start Najaf and Baghdad.................WOW Yupppyyyyyyy :D:D:D:D

[uglyraedII]

why cant GF start its JFK flights again? The 340s heading there used to be filled with pax! pitty they had to end that rout!

[boiler]

The decision to fly to Iraq by GF is definitely political in nature (esp. Najaf). The costs will be enormous (esp. the insurance premiums). Not sure how Baghdad will fair (too far from the religious shrines and limited visas will affect the local traffic), but Najaf is a definite money maker and will keep the many people happy as the religious traffic is strong year-round.

[carevna.katerina]

Not sure about the JFK flights...EK pulled out the 380 off this route for a reason. I do a JFK flight every month, they were only half full until the summer holidays... just saying

[Emma Gemma]

There were rumours at QR around 2003 that they wanted to begin flying to both Baghad and Basrah. Only rumours of course...

I think the council of Iraq granted a few airlines permission to fly both passengers and cargo in and out of the country. Emirates, Gulf Air, Royal Jordanian Airlines and Qatar Airways were a few of them. I also think LOT and SAS received permission.

[uglyraedII]

yea that's right! about the JFK rout. Gf used to fly packed with pax on this route ... because the flight was mostly at midnight (i should know i went on the 2nd flight:))so passenger could from all over the GF network could get a connection to newyork! most of my family memebers used to fly the airline from and to JFK and they kept telling me the Y class was full! but i only flew in J class which was kinda empty:bored:

[boiler]

Even though JFK is not the topic of this forum, I should point out that GF started JFK services around 1994(?) and stopped around 1st quarter of 1997. Do the maths guys.

[uglyraedII]

what did you mean by the statement "do the math" have i said something wrong?:confused:
im not sure but i guess they stopped the flights to JFK because of financial difficulties! that's when Gf was heavily in dept.

[Travelman34]

They could always start these routes with old wet leased aircraft as RJA does

[Che Guevara]

Ladies and Gents,

JFK has nothing to do with Iraq. Please don't get sidetracked by the nuisance. :rolleyes:

[jackbauer]

The ugly one was about 5 years old when GF was flying to JFK so knows jack sh1t about it or anything else for that matter.

[Miles Gustaph]

Jack, he was on the second flight, that makes him 2 years old... but J class was empty!

[uglyraedII]

oh please i was with my ***********BTW he/she works in the airline .i cant tell you his/her name or anything(dont bother to ask me)Because i guess all pilots know him/her. apart from th e320 ones. The JFK was a break through for the airline it was sad that they ended it.

[uglyraedII]

oh please i was with my family. And i even have pictures to remind me of that flight so i couldnt forget about it.Sad hey had to end the route

[Miles Gustaph]

Ok so you can’t tell us who your dad is… but you’re a Bahraini kid who has moved to Jeddah with his family. Your dad’s a “head” and a pilot who all the Pilots know except the E320 Pilots.

How much longer before you shoot your big mouth off enough for someone here to identify your family and asks them if your prophetic words of wisdom about GF, that you were told by one of the “Heads” and are now repeating here are for public consumption? Or if they are happy for you to embarrass them by your conduct on here… I’m sure all the Pilots who know your Dad will be polite and not remind him of his sons’ conduct of PPRuNe.


My bet is your mouth drops you in it before the end of the week - I'll be cautious here mind and say the Gregorian week, Friday.

[uglyraedII]

I guess you took the dad thing a little to ummmmmmm seriously. It is true i moved to jeddah from bahrain but there is someone who works it the airline who my family knows.Your so full of i :ok:

[jaadu]

I hope there's some danger money also on offer along with the life insurance incase you go tech out there!!!!!!!!!!:hmm:

[uglyraedII]

yea i agree! but i like the idea about the flights to iraq. I remember in the later hogan days they mentioned something about "thinking" of starting the flights to iraq..i wish they would start their flights to JFK again.what did you mean by "tech" put there?

[mrmach]

This will extend GF's agony...

[uglyraedII]

I don't think starting flights to Iraq is an "agony".In fact, the airline will get more pax this way its an excellent way to make business! i Bet the planes haeding to that place will be filled with passengers and cargo from DHL

[brassplate]

uglyraedII,
you have hijacked every gf thread with your inane and immature comments and claims of being 17 years old.
with this maturity level, you are obviously MANAGEMENT, maybe even the head of HR, the banana man himself.
IRAQ flights??? NO, NO, NO.
it's easy for planners to plan. at the end of the day, they are safely behind their desks while the drivers are spearheading the operation and getting in harms way.
so why don't you pi$$ off back to your management contacts and tell them all to $crew themselves.

[Travelman34]

I am pretty sure that the insurance premiums for sending nice new aircraft into a war zone are going to upwards of 8% on hull value. IF the Head Lessors would even allow it.

You can imagine the impact on your seat rate.

Far better to use lower value older aircraft on wet lease to take the risk and keep fares down and then the sensitive Gulf Air crew dont have to risk anything.

RJA have been doing this for years

[boiler]

GF does own 2 old A320s so my guess they will be sending those. GF has no new A320s (yet) so I would not worry about it.

[Che Guevara]

Boiler, believe it or not they actually have one brand new 320 (A9C-AA)already flying with additional ones coming one per month as of September.

[boiler]

Thanks Che, I stand corrected.

[uglyraedII]

I like the word"hijacked" ... And yea i am in the management and im Kooheji spying on you ppl ! acting like a 17 year old and ummmmmmmm........im 56 years old ...and ummmmmm............................... i like to annoy my employees ..HAHHAHAHAHAHA that was fun:)

[Jenniferr]

heyyy peaple! listen hes only 17 give him a break! he has ambition lets not destroy it! Hes not the one being immature.I agree with the kid peaple do chat on forums this way .I think you guys need to change too.And trust me this forum is way better then it used to be before uglyread showed up ! smell you later! ;)

[Sal-e]

I am of the belief that airlines are the catalyst and part and parcel of every economic recovery and/or ongoing prosperity of a nation.
Iraq most definitely require an RPT service but it can not be only from GF or the other region's carriers. It must be a concerted effort by internationals, especially from Europe and Asia. Only then can proper recovery take place in Iraq.
It is then a question of security. Airlines will fly in if Iraq works on being safe enough but Iraq won't begin to be safe enough until airlines start flying in.

[4HolerPoler]

Guys, I've advised uglyraedII to wind his neck in & to stop bugging the locals. Any more crud from him & he's out of here.

4HP

[Christina6916]

wow nice to know lots of things are going on here. Ugly betty are you seriouse? nice one. Anyway, i am looking for a job for my sister here and i want to know if female first officer will be welcomed when the airline starts recruiting ??thank you.
A reply would be appreciated .

[boiler]

Dam** Ugly, do NOT answer questions when you are not qualified to do so. You are neither a pilot nor working for GF. Let the PROFESSIONALS answer Christina6916. No one gives a rat's a** about your pathetic opinions.

[Christina6916]

mind your own beez wax boiler let the kid say what he wants.Thanks for the reply UGLYRAED, The forum is mostly about you.If they really wanted to get back tot the topic they would not try to insult you.Face it, They like having you around.I personally like your posts .Hang in there as lots of great peaple were mocked by the proffesionals .By the looks of it i dont think they are proffesionals.I have seen the images that they sent you and the way you have handled it was pretty "proffesional".I guess your the pro here. thanks for the advice.You were really helpfull.
Hang in there,
Chrisitina

[boiler]

Hmm, looks like Ugly has a sister now.

[Christina6916]

its funny the way you called him spoiler.:D.And boiler try to mind your own business for a change the kid really knows what hes talking about ,i guess.Well your comment really helped.Its like you guys think that think that your "proffesional" but your really not!The way you handled him was totally immature.Iv seen the previouse comment and its like the rest of you started all of this by calling him irritating.BTW, ugly betty has an amazing personality and she always won at the end.Hope you win:ok:
Hang in there,
Chrisitina.

[boiler]

Sure Chrissi, ugly is so "professional" that all his posts in another thread have been completely deleted. You are free to listen to him and go down the drain with him.

[boiler]

Ok then, back to the topic now our kind moderator has taken action.

From what I hear, a team from GF left to examine BGW and all seems well (for now). Tentative flying date around mid-September so I am told. Najaf will take some time until it is ready (November perhaps??). Ithink it still needs IATA certification etc... I did hear they are building another runway that will be capable of handling a WB.

[parabellum]

I can't help thinking that the final decider on GF to BGW or Najaf will be the insurance underwriters who write the War risks policies for GF, that is hulls and liabilities, they may well impose additional premiums that render the routes not commercial or, worst case, withdraw their cover.

[Duh]

It takes less than a minute to put Ugly and his sister on the ignore list.

Nice.:ok:

[Sidestick Priority]

Percentage Responses
Yes 22.2% 6
No 77.8% 21
Total response: 27