QF depressurisation

[sleeve of wizard]

A Qantas plane en route to Brisbane was forced to turn back to Auckland on Saturday after losing cabin pressure at 7,000 metres.
The mechanical fault occurred soon after take-off from Auckland.
The plane had climbed to over 7,000 metres when it started losing cabin pressure.
It returned to Auckland, landed safely and 91 passengers were transferred to other flights.

[ampclamp]

rego anyone?

[Bankstown]

ZK-JTS by the looks. Replaced by ZK-JND

[blueloo]

Shouldnt the headline be - a plane operated by.XXXXXX wearing a Qantas Colour scheme.......


bah couldnt help myself..... :ugh: :ugh:

[who_cares]

Qantas still owns the airframe

[Tankengine]

Pilots too - got them for half price!:hmm:

[framer]

Blueloo and Tank, :{:{:{, you'l be ok, stop crying.
How about the actual incident? Handled well? Anyone know the crew?
Is JTS one of the older ones or a newer ausi import? Rapid, Explosive or Gradual loss of pressure?
Framer

[Dragun]

Did it plunge from the sky?

[Tankengine]

Framer, I am OK!:)
Not so my junior friends though.:ugh:

I am sure the JETCONNECT incident was handled professionally by the crew,:ok:
pity they take the crap money to do such a job though!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[QFinsider]

Jconnect relies on the same politics of envy........

the oldmeadow policy relies on people undervaluing their skills.....
Whenever something goes wrong it is a Qantas group aircraft...except when it comes to recruiting and remuneration!!

[Sqwark2000]

Herald article quoted "At about 25,000 feet (7,600 metres), while it was climbing out of Auckland, it experienced a subtle pressurisation problem,"

No oxygen deployed, no emergency declared, just a simple turn back and normal landing. Hysterics over.

Qantas flight to Brisbane turns back - National - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10586713)

S2K

[rescue 1]

I had heard the flight the day before, same aircraft, also returned with the same problem...:confused:

[Swamp Donkey]

yet another example of the media jumping on a QF incident whereas the EK saga at MEL took days to reach the papers and never got the attention that it really deserved......

[Barkly1992]

looks like the pilots superior skills enabled them to avoid the school.

[alverton]

I was a passenger aboard QF 116 (Z-JTS) last Saturday (25 July), I am not involved in the aviation industry rather a geologist, so my commentary is on the basis of an informed traveller. I have been a keen reader of PPrune for 4 years and this is my first posting.

I was sitting in 2A in business class on QF 116. The incident first became known to us during the climb out of Auckland. At this time we mostly engrossed in completing landing cards for Brisbane, when a crackled voice came on the public address system and announced "This is the captain, Emergency Descent, repeat Emergency Decent". During the anouncement the aircraft rotated from the climb to the descent. Descent was not noticiably rapid and as reports have mentioned no oxygen masks deployed. As the aircraft rotated into the decsent there was a wave of warm air that seemed to pass from the front to the rear of the cabin, I assume this is normal as warm air rises and would have been forward during the climb and was moving to rearward in the descent configuration. The crew quickly returned to their seats. Shortly after a passenger from economy walked up to the front of the cabin and asked the crew a question (no idea what) as the passenger returned to its seat the cabin crew advised passengers to remain seated. The descent continued on an outbound (Australia targetted) heading and the aircraft levelled out at what I guess was FL 080 to 010. After a short while perhaps five minutes the Captain addressed the passengers again.
I cannot recall the exact words, but he apologised for the incident and advised that the problem was related to indications that the presurisation system was not working properly and that an emergency descent was required. He advised that the oxygen masks had not deployed because we had not been high enough for that to be required. He then assured us that the aircraft was perfectly flyable and that we would be returning to Auckland but as we were "a little heavy" it would be necessary to burn off some fuel for about 40 minutes during which we will be commencing a long slow descent prior to landing in Auckland, After another 5 minutes or so the aircraft turned to fly parallel to the coast heading southwards. The aircraft then slowed significantly and we flew with quite a noticable "angle of attack" for the remained of the fuel burn portion of the flight. By the time we were heading back to Auckland a few 10's of kms from the airport we were pretty low - perhaps 3000 - 4000 ft. From their the aircraft flew a low but normal approach and landed.
The Captain and Cabin Crew apologised for the problem and inconvenience etc and we waited on the apron whilst a vintage fire truck and ambulance officers checked for problems with the aircraft or passengers of which there were non. Eventually buses arrived to return us to the Terminal where we awaited a replacement aircraft, flight crew and cabin crew.

There was no panic during the incident, a few passengers showed genuine concern of course, but calm prevailed.

In hindsight the climb out of Auckland prior to the incident was unusually slow especially compared with the performance of the replacement aircraft, so I suspect but do not know that the flight crew were either cautions because of the reported problem the day before (if that is real) or because of early indications of a problem with the pressurisation.

Visually both ZK-116 and the replacement aircraft are in a poor state of maintenance with respect to their internal fixtures, the seats are old and many of the internal cabin fixtures such as the cloakroom doors are poorly fitting and the crew had trouble closing them. Also the paintwork looked "blotchy and old". Clearly these are older aircraft to what are used on most internal domestic Australian flights. On the replacement aircraft the window blinds rattled like a Melbourne Red Rattler (for those who remember then) as the aircraft took off. All these elements mean that I will look for alternatives to Jet Connect operated services when crossing the Tasman in the future. I will be testing Air New Zealands efforts on Monday. Together with the much reported incident at Darwin in which a heavy landing occured and this personal incident my confidence in Jet Connect is very low.

So on the issue of was this an emergency? Well the captain declared an emergency descent to the cabin crew and to the passengers. So at that time in my book he was dealing with an emergency. Of course the Qantas PR spin doctors are saying there was no emergency to the media, which is fine if you make the assessment with the knowledge that no one was hurt and with the advantage of this hindsight. So yet again the fare paying public is misled for the sake of protecting Qantas former good name. In my book this was an emergency, supported by the Captains declaration. Because there was a good outcome does not mean it was not an emergency.

[who_cares]

Alverton

The heavy landing incident that you are refering to in your post was a National Jet 717.

Think qantas are aware of the substandard quality of the Tasman aircraft, guess thats why they will be getting brand new 737-800s

[alverton]

Thanks for correcting me re-the National Jet incident.

Is it normal to fly at a high angle of attach during fuel burn?

I hope Qantas are not forgoing maintenance whilst awaiting new equipment.

[ferris]

Watch out Alverton, if more pax reports of incidents are as lucid as yours, the media will stop reporting them and/or the rest of us will stop reading pprune to find out what happened.

[distracted cockroach]

High angle of attack normally corresponds to low speed. Putting out flap and gear helps produce more drag, requiring more power, therefore burning fuel faster, but it is noisy and discomforting to passengers. I'd say flying slow with a high(ish) angle of attack is normal....otherwise you end up travelling big distances in the time needed to burn fuel (unless you are in a holding pattern of course)

[hoboe]

Nice account Alverton!

I would have thought that they would have dumped the fuel, rather than flying around for the sake of it...

[captaintunedog777]

When are you knobs going to realise Qantas is but a brand name with many names operating under the banner. Jetconnect, Jetstar and National Jet. Well done crew obviously the above idiots have not progressed from their high performance King Air , Cheiften or Metro. It had a Roo on tail regardless of who operates it. It is QANTAS. Blueloo when did you become such a comedian or Grade III Instructor.:ugh:

[Iron Bar]

No. Operationally, industrially and legally. Jetconnect!!!!! :ugh::ugh:

[c100driver]

Alverton, the Jetconnect 737's are currently maintained by Air NZ.


Or to be more correct Jetcon contract out the maint they want done to Air NZ.

[Fruet Mich]

Just a little info for ya Alverton

Your aircraft ZK-JTS that had the problem is the youngest (year of manufacture) B737-400 of the Qantas 737-400 fleet. Ex VH-TJZ.

It is younger than 24 of the 29 Qantas B767's in service.

Younger than 20 of the current 30 B747's in the Qantas fleet.

It is also younger than 4 of Air New Zealand's 7 B747's in service, and younger than 3 of ANZ's 5 B767's in service.

As for ZK-JND, gone in a month. New machines with seat back entertainment starting on the 1st of September.

[an3_bolt]

Younger in terms of date of manufacture, total hours or total cycles or what?:eek:

[alverton]

Thanks for the comments folks. I think the youth of the aircraft is only half the story there us also how well it is maintained. These two aircraft looked decidedly badly kept to me a layman so I suspect that also indicates that the aircraft avionics maintenance is also poor. Anyway they will not be getting my patronage for a while.

[blueloo]

Blueloo when did you become such a comedian or Grade III Instructor

I found some tokens in my cornflakes for the comedian qualifications. I am still looking for the instructor tokens! :}

[sfoxs]

I am sure the JETCONNECT incident was handled professionally by the crew,http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif
pity they take the crap money to do such a job though

Off the thread but just a message to you Kiwi bashing Australians. Jetconnect's wages aren't so bad when you compare them to any other job you can get around here. With Dickstar's arrival in NZ, you Australian's have sent over multiple nationalities working for around 20,30 or even 40% less. And that now sending Jetconnect to go and stay in Australia undercutting you big QF boys who will be the first to winge when Dickstar NZ come back across the Tasman to undercut Dickstar Aus and QF. Boy wont things really be hitting the fan. Divide and conquer. What a great company the flying rat is to work for.

[ampclamp]

Who was kiwi bashing? How would you know who works for qantas and who does not?
Frankly i couldnt read anything particularly offensive.
There are that many imposters, stirrers, wannabe experts I'd take no notice of a throw away lines.

Alverton, you are of course welcome to fly with whoever you like.However jetcon will be getting squeaky clean 737-800's real soon with in seat video on demand.
The captain carried out an emergency decent, that being one you carry out in non normal circumstances.The rate of decent is quicker than usual hence the terminology.If the masks were not deployed either manually or automatically it was a pretty tame incident meaning the cabin altitude didnt go over 10 or 11 thousand feet.
The crew noted a defect and took appropriate action.It is a pain in the backside having to turn back ( and expensive for all).I frankly think you were in very good hands.
As for the mainteneance of avionics the cab pressure system is rarely touched in earnest and like most avionics it works most of the time has good backups and warnings. jetconnects, qantas, anz would all do very similar maintenance as set by Boeing and company procedures.

[blacksmoke]

sfoxs, the jetstar guys are now actually on more than the jitconnect guys.( Well the capts anyway!!). As far as the pilots go, most are kiwis or australians. As far as working for 20 to 40% less, well that is utter rubbish.
Now, back to the original post....

[*Lancer*]

Does Jetconnect have a procedure to announce an "emergency descent"? It strikes me as an odd thing to say when the descent profile isn't particularly exciting (unless you've got the wheels out), and you haven't exceeded 10000 cabin altitude... There's nothing in the cabin to do except sit down, and there's a switch for that.

There is an automated PA that is linked to the masks (only used above 10000)...

[blueloo]

from memory the 737 has a depres checklist and emergency descent checklist.

first recall on emergency descent checklist was (i think):
"Emergency Descent Announce"