CO & Indian ex-president

[CargoOne]

NEW DELHI, India (CNN) -- Indian authorities Tuesday filed a police complaint against Continental Airlines for frisking a former president of the country as he was to travel to New York in April.

U.S. airline irks India by frisking ex-president - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/21/india.continental.frisking/index.html)

[Al Fakhem]

Too many exemptions for self-important people in India anyway. The country is full of supposed VIPs, VVIPs, etc.

[condorbaaz]

try frisking any ex pres in the US or any ex head of state in Europe. or any Country , for a matter of fact. Probably ex head of state get charter and do not fly comercial?
or Any Arab sheikh (royal family etc)
in their native country.

Major political snafu.

AF: The exemption is also to all foreign heads of state in India and is extended to ex HOS as a courtesy
This case:

Beaureau of Civil Airport Security(India) Personnel have specifically advised CO staff
after which he was not only searched but also asked to remove shoes et. al.

Now the Parliament has asked that CO be banned from operating to India

[Load Toad]

If there is no profiling and pilots can be security checked - why the hell should some VIP get off?

Frisk 'im!

If 'e doesn't like it - 'e doesn't get on. Simple.

[Desert Diner]

try frisking any ex pres in the US or any ex head of state in Europe. or any Country , for a matter of fact. Probably ex head of state get charter and do not fly comercial?
or Any Arab sheikh (royal family etc)
in their native country.


Last time I checked, very few of the above go through regular security lines or imigration lines for that matter. That is what VIP facilities are all about.

If they choose to go through the normal chanels, then they have to suffer the same indignities as the rest of us.

[alienpilot]

Ex president Kalam was hugely popular during his tenure and this intellectual visionary remains highly respected for his honesty and simplicity in dirty political world of India.
This incident took place in Apr 09, he went through security as desired by Continental and did not complain at all to anyone ( He couldn't be bothered about such issues). The incident came to light during routine observation of reports submitted by continental's local security agents.
While there are some people exempt and VIP culture thrives and politicians love to carry a huge group of cops as a status symbol, controversy here is about double standards by continental.
Indian law exempts certain people from security and they knew about it. The airline would not do checks for US ex presidents, its own senior staff eg GM etc and many distinguished people from the west. That issue, has hurt the sentiments of indian parliament. On being asked the ex president merely confirmed that indeed he was frisked and hasnt complained.

[Gibon2]

This incident took place in Apr 09, he went through security as desired by Continental and did not complain at all to anyone ( He couldn't be bothered about such issues).

Confirms the wise words I once heard about VIPs, protocol and such: "Those who matter don't care, and those who care don't matter".

[Donkey497]

Frankly it sounds as if the guy himself has set a superb example - i.e. no-one is exempt from security screening and went through exactly the same security checks as the rest of the passengers, rather than make a song and dance about being screened and create a double standard as the result.

As far as security is concerned, I don't give a flying four X who you are, or where it is.

EVERYONE should be publicly screened prior to boarding by professional & courteous government-paid staff to demonstrably the same global standard in adequate surroundings.

Passengers, air crew, presidents, ex-dictators , fathers of the nation, children, pets, etc.. - until proven safe, you are all potential hazards.


Ain't gonna happen tho'- it'd need governments firstly to take responsibility for implementing security & naturally the blame if & when something went wrong. (Yeah, like a politician would do that). Secondly it'd mean the governments actually paying a decent rate for the screeners and paying for proper equipment. Finally, they'd all have to agree to an independent body defining what were good security measures and practices which they couldn't directly control or influence.

I am not for an instant suggesting that the flight crews should be subject to the baggage restrictions as passengers, likewise the liquid restriction could be readily abandoned, just that there should be consistency, an application of common sense and practicality to the security process.

[Al Fakhem]

And why would a former Indian head of state not proudly fly Air India? Does he know something others do not?

[Wannabe Flyer]

And why would a former Indian head of state not proudly fly Air India? Does he know something others do not?

Probably because he was invited to a conference in the US and the ticket he received was a complimentary one from a US company. He was therefore not travelling on state business. That said, it is sad Air India is going down the tubes. About time the ropes were cut loose and let it sink or float on its own merits.

Confirms the wise words I once heard about VIPs, protocol and such: "Those who matter don't care, and those who care don't matter".

Well said :D

These damn self given importance VIPs block roads, restaurants and the like. They forget that in a Democratic country they are public SERVANTS who are paid for by the tax payers money to serve us. :oh: General sentiment is that they should be lined up and :mad:.................However Mr Kalam, a very different kind of person so there are always exceptions to the rules.


EVERYONE should be publicly screened prior to boarding by professional & courteous government-paid staff to demonstrably the same global standard in adequate surroundings.

I agree, it is not fair that CO should take it upon itself to create its list. Besides this was the secondary screening after the regular screening by the Airport Authorities, just before boarding the aircraft by the CO staff and not by the CISF. CISF had already screened all the passengers.

Anyone, expat or not positioned in India would be able to recognize Mr Kalam and know what a stink it could create. The local staff judged this but according to the newspaper the "US Boss" insisted and forced them to frisk him despite thier protests. A bit :confused: ........ maybe CO should include that in thier manual for cross cultural training.

Sometimes some people need to use thier judgement. In my opinion the Boss was showing his oversized Ego at this point and could have made an exception that would have gone a long way for his companies goodwill. Not sure if it is required for him to pen a report that says "did not frisk following list of passengers......"

Definately his superiors including the TSA would have accepted that this man was not a security risk to the aircraft! After all when an Ex US president was flying commercial on the same flight last year the local government obliged and allowed him to drive upto the aircraft :cool:....No guesses if the US Boss frisked him or not.

Mountain out of molehill that some rational thinking could have avoided :\ .Just gave ammunation to some self profesed VIP's to spend their otherwise meaningless lives to bark like mad dogs!

[Al Fakhem]

And why would a former Indian head of state not proudly fly Air India? Does he know something others do not?

Probably because he was invited to a conference in the US and the ticket he received was a complimentary one from a US company. He was therefore not travelling on state business. That said, it is sad Air India is going down the tubes. About time the ropes were cut loose and let it sink or float on its own merits.





Kalam is a former head of state, so he could not be travelling on state business anyway. But: former heads of states usually get free travel on their country's flag carrier as a rule.

[leewan]

I once saw Mr Kalam in person when he came in on a VIP flight for a talk in SIN and he came across as a very friendly and a very humble man. Can't say the same for the other political VIPs I've seen coming from India.

[phineas]

I’ve a couple of things to say about this: if he was boarding a US plane travelling to a US destination then it is US law or at least US regulation that determines who gets searched where and when. US law superseding domestic law is reality we all have to accept.
If he was travelling on official business he should be on a diplomatic passport/visa, this under the Vienna Convention exempts the traveller from certain local laws. Being a VIP, using a VIP check in doesn’t bypass the usual security and immigration controls.
I’m sure there are many people in this forum who have a better understanding of these things than I do so I would be grateful to be corrected.
Phineas

[Wannabe Flyer]

If he was traveling on official business he should be on a diplomatic passport/visa, this under the Vienna Convention exempts the traveller from certain local laws. Being a VIP, using a VIP check in doesn’t bypass the usual security and immigration controls.


I believe former presidents in India get to retain their diplomatic status. Could someone please verify. That said he was obviously not traveling on state business and was therefore on a paid ticket.

If he has a diplomatic passport then it is a major Boo Boo on behalf of the US carrier, if not then still say some common sense would have gone a long way. After all one does not become the manager of a major airline without some of it.

[Capetonian]

Confirms the wise words I once heard about VIPs, protocol and such: "Those who matter don't care, and those who care don't matter".

So true. I was in the Kruger National Park once and saw a group of 3 or 4 people at one of the camp rest areas having a cup of coffee. One man's shirt drew my attention. At a glance he looked vaguely familiar and I realised it was Nelson Mandela, and this was during the time of his presidency. I was with my son, then about 5. Madiba must have realised I was telling my son who this man was, and he waved to us to come over and join him for a chat.

Can you imagine the likes of Gordon Brown (not that you'd want to!) doing similar?

[Al Fakhem]

The Vienna Convention came in force when diplomats were gentlemen. Sadly, since WWII, some of them have resorted to running guns and drugs, or - such as the diplomatic corps of DPRK - fake currency, cigarettes and alcohol.

[sundownbettertakecar]

Bollywood immunity? Hey, don't suppose US Customs & INS care too much for Bollywood dignitaries! At least he did not ( humbly? ) try to be self important on TV interview after that experience.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Mountain out of a molehill. I think he would have come out looking better if he "did not make a few calls" to get out of the situation. Wait your turn, explain yourself and carry on...................If after that they still hassle you then go ahead and make a stink which would be justified. Learn from APJ he did not even mention it and kept quiet about it. Just some self pompous importance seeker who brought the situation to light.

Icing on the cake however his (SRK) bags were delayed/lost so what the :mad: he would have had to wait anyways! I would have preferred to sit for an hour in an office with adoring fans surrounding me rather than wait like a commoner near the baggage belt waiting for some BA rep to tell me what happened. I think they did him a favor by giving him a chair to sit and allowing him to educate them as to who he was by Googling his name. Seems what bothered him most was that they told him his name was "Common" ........... Hmmm that can piss off a celeb to be told that he is "Common":ugh: