Virgin diversion query.

[MyNameIsIs]

Virgin Diversion, 17th July.

Was listening out on ML CTR last Friday and heard Virgin 555 diverting into MEL. It appears they had an airconditioning or pressurisation problem as they requested the lowest altitude possible to remain in controlled airspace. Further into the transmissions the crew indicated it was going to be an overweight landing and requested emergency services to be on local standby. Now, not being a 737 pilot, is an overweight landing the normal thing in these circumstances? Not a wind-up, just interested as I imagine there are required inspections if you land overweight.

[vee1-rotate]

If the tech issue was serious enough, and they wanted to get on the ground asap, then an overweight landing would have been the only option. Being a SYD-PER flight, they would have been carrying around 17 tonne of fuel, and having no fuel jettison options, the onyl way to reduce that weight would be to burn excess fuel.

[mention1]

Agreed. The B737 doesn't have a fuel dump system. Overweight landings are approved for ab-normals or emergencies and of course there is a requirement for a LAME check afterwards.

[captwawa]

prob the reason for the lower level too ,, to burn fuel off as much as possible.. wouldnt be suprised if the gear was down 2

[Wod]

Just to state the bleedin' obvious, the problem could have been medical rather than technical, but the requirement to get on the ground remains as urgent.

(I know; eggs and grandmas:ok:)

[Capt_SNAFU]

I don't think you would have local services on stanby for a medical. Unless one of the pilots was ill. Local services for O/W landing could be prudent.

Overweight landings generally not a problem, as long the touch down is smooth very little inspection required. There were some fair old winds running over the past few days (3:30 trip PER-BNE 6:00 BNE-PER) maybe they were trying to get below the worst of it as opposed to the normal FL260-300 for best TAS regime.

If the situation necessitated a quick landing then I don't think trying to get the weight down would be a huge issue. Yes you get the FF up down low with gear down but I don't think that would be the reason for down low. Gear down likely to scare the pax even more as it is extremely loud at high speeds.

[westausatc]

To go a bit off topic...

On one of Airservice's numerous CBT refresher training courses (coz they work so much better than doing it for real in the sim!), they say that the A320 and B73 series aircraft don't have fuel dump equipment as the MLW is greater than MTOW, ie can't take-off at MLW so will always be below MLW. This isn't the first time I have heard of landing at greater than MLW, either.

I am assuming that as well as being a 'superior' way of delivering our refresher training, that it is wrong to boot. Is that correct?

[Dehavillanddriver]

You are correct - it is incorrect!

Make sense??

The MLW is well below the max takeoff weight, for the 737-800 the Max takeoff weight is something like 13 tonnes greater than the max landing weight (if I recall correctly)

[No Idea Either]

Westausatc

As previously mentioned, the certified MLW of the 737 is less than the MTOW so inorder to land at the MLW you have to get rid of the fuel. In some cases it is only a few tonnes and in other cases it can be up to 13 odd tonnes. The 737 has no fuel dumping capability, so the only way is to hold (or cruise) in a high drag configuration at a resonably low level to achieve a high fuel flow. You would only land overweight in a life threatening or aircraft safety situation. But also as previously mentioned the 737 does require an overweight landing inspection but depending on the conditions of the landing, this inspection can be minimal. As an example we departed SY for PH a few years back at MTOW and at TOPC a lady had an anaphalactic attack and had trouble breathing. Back around we went and landed back at SY about 11 tonnes over. Smooth landing, into wind, long runway, minimal use of wheel brakes, rolling through, etc, etc. Handed lady off to ambos, inspection, refuel, gone again in about 45 minutes. 737 probably built a bit tougher than required, dont know the exact reason, perhaps an engineer type could explain that.

[ringbinder]

You would only land overweight in a life threatening or aircraft safety situation.
So, then, is a pressurisation or airconditioning problem sufficiently urgent to warrant an overweight landing? From the initial report, it doesn't sound like it was one (ie initial aircraft problem) resulting in passenger harm or the like.