ADS-B, Stuff that I have found.

[Frank Arouet]

Given, I can't believe anything that comes out of Gillard's gob, Conroy and her are touting $6+ million for design and build of two telecommunication satelites for thems folk in the GAFA. This was later reported as being for two second hand, (but state of the art), US satelites.

Is it logical to assume these can be utilised for WAAS?

[T28D]

Frank, They are KA band Communication birds, only comms transponders on board so they have adequate bandwidth.

[Jack Ranga]

28D,

So does that mean they CAN be used for WAAS?

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Considering also that we have access to the Japanese MTSAT that already has the gear on board for WAAS. All that is required is the ground network to be surveyed in to supply the the uplink signal to augment the GNSS network for our patch and we are all apples.....question is as always....user pays. Just have to prove a case that precise GPS signals are in the national interest and everyone wins.....fat chance, I am afraid:suspect:

[Jack Ranga]

mmmm, must be a classified secret?

[T28D]

Jack, No not for WAAS, only bandwidth for IP Data

[baswell]

Since they have not been launched yet, there is no technical reason a WAAS package could not have been put on there. Same with all the birds Optus launched over the past decade. (Remember, WAAS in the US also runs on commercial broadcast satellites)

They just have not been willing to spend the money. The birds probably aren't the biggest obstacle; it's the dozens of ground stations.

Bring on Galileo!

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Here, here, Baz! There is a serious lack of forethought in our halls of power. Considering we have some 28 ADS-B receiver stations right across the GAFA, how much extra bandwidth would it need to piggyback the raw data on the feed going back to mummy in BN and ML? Already a reference uplink in CB.

[Jack Ranga]

Ta, understood.

[T28D]

2 birds serving 300,000 consumers 12mb downlink 1mb uplink depending on contention ratio and transponder capacity there is no potential space on these birds

[LeadSled]

Folks,
Airservices canned WAAS in Australia, because there was no way to charge for it, what a shame!!

Remember, we did have WAAS coverage until a few years ago, but the (I think PamAmSat) satellite was moved east over the Pacific ---- or the service moved to another more easterly satellite.

Generation 3 GPS will produce WAAS accuracy, without WAAS, for everything but aircraft and high speed rail, so aviation in Australia misses out again.

The "post Airservices" DoI &T look at WAAS as a national infrastructure effort went nowhere, because of Gen 3 GPS, coming soon to a receiver near you, and the major airline saying they had no use for WAAS ---- so the rest of aviation looses.

Thanks, Minister.

Tootle pip!!

[baswell]

OZ: Haha, yeah, hadn't even thought of that, we have plenty of powered and maintained ground stations they could put the gear in.

So it probably would have been a few extra millions installation and negligible maintenance. Sigh...

T28D: the internet capacity of the birds is irrelevant. You just need to add a completely different electronics package on there just for the WAAS, that's all.

[T28D]

Baswell, I had a bit to do with this, there is simply no capacity on the birds to do other than spec.

Thats it !!

[LeadSled]

baswell,
The estimate for the ground station initial installation for Australia was, as I recall, between AUD$26M and $38M when the AUD was about 78C US, so much cheaper now, with an annual running cost of about AUD$5-6M, a pittance, really, in the big scheme of things.

Indeed, what the government has just spent on advertising the carbon tax would have covered it comfortable.

Tootle pip!!

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Hot of the press . ATSAW (http://www.eurocontrol.int/news/cockpit-surveillance-now-operational)

Don't you just luuuuuuuuve technology:-)

Try another link (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/swiss-pilots-trial-do-it-yourself-atc-368031/)

[Frank Arouet]

A classic piece of technology. The "link".

It comes up, "Internet explorer cannot display this webpage".

I'm going to buy a Lada Niva, the 16 valve model. Its got 8 in the wireless.:ok:

EDIT to add the new link works, thanks.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

PowerPoint from Airbus on
ATSAW (http://www.asas-tn.org/workshops/final-seminar-paris-14-15-april-2008/session-2/5_Airbus_Status.ppt)

Nearly four years old but interesting to gauge how things have progressed.

[baswell]

Nearly four years old but interesting to gauge how things have progressed
Says just about everything there is to say about how bad aviation is at designing, implementing and adopting new technologies and capabilities...

This was possible 20 years ago if the powers that be just had gotten their heads out of their arses.

And by now it would have been so cheap that every lighty would have come with it as standard too.

[baswell]

T28D: if they had figured out before they ordered these birds that this is what they wanted, they could have made sure they had space for it. :) Same as for the Optus birds; I have no doubt that they would have loved to share their launch cost with the government by hosting WAAS on it and gladly would have made room.

Impossible is nothing... (unless you are dealing with government)

[LeadSled]

baswell,
You obviously didn't understand what I said:

The Government positively decided against WAAS, because, after the implementation of Generation 3 GPS, you will have WAAS or better position accuracy for all but high speed moving platforms.

The Government decided, based on the major airlines disinterest ( they would only pay for LAAS or whatever its new name is - - GBAS),and no other major application, that they would not invest just for what was left of aviation ---- Regionals and GA.

There are NO plans to take advantage of the coverage for the Japanese satellite, same reason. It looks like PNG will go WAAS in the not too distant future, it will make a huge difference in servicing the mining, oil and gas industry in the southern highlands.

OZ,
Can't help myself, but what does come to mind is the thought: " Move on, folks, nothing new here" ----- but elsewhere there is something new, with FAA confirming the long anticipated adoption of VDL-2 (TDMA) as the mandatory datalink.

Just to remind everybody, VDL-2 + ADS-B/C data = VDL-4.

And, if the original ICAO plan had been followed through, and not been hijacked by (mostly) US airlines, who were promised a "quick, cheap and easy" ADS-B using 1090ES transponders, VDL-4 would have satisfied all the datalink requirements in a modern digital (relatively) broad band format, instead of the highly constricted 1909ES requiring separate datalinks. As some of you will know, ARINC and SITA converted from the old VHF ACARS to VDL-2 some time ago, including Australia.

And, as we are all too well aware, 1090ES ADS-B has proven to be neither cheap nor easy, particularly for Australian GA, with unique mandates for GA, unlike the rest of the world.

I not that FAA has also just announced the subsidies for airlines to fit 1909ES ADS-B ---- because of the up to US$500,000 per aircraft, but no subsidy for GA UAT, because it is cheap and easy --- and the far less restrictive mandate, compared to Australia, despite ten times of more US traffic ---- comparing apples and apples, not the apples and oranges comparisons used to try and justify the Australian mandate.

Remember, VDL-4 was the FIRST (not Australia) routine use of ADS-B in CNS/ATM ---- in Scandinavia.

And, VDL-4 (or UAT) had become the ADS-B standard, we would have had access to cheap ADS-B for GA in Australia ---- instead of the expensive shambles we face.

Tootle pip!!

[Jabawocky]

FCC plans to suspend LightSquared's land network | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/15/us-lightsquared-fcc-idUSTRE81E03E20120215)

[le Pingouin]

Not before time either. For once the common good trumps "sharp" business practices.

[Flying Binghi]

.

Finnaly gettin to have a better read of the OZBUSDRIVER link via #245

Identification of ADS-B System Vulnerabilities and Threats (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:r0PtGbRPF_8J:www.patrec.org/web_docs/atrf/papers/2010/1916_222%2520-%2520Purton%2520Abbass%2520Alam.pdf+purton+abbass+alam&hl=en&gl=au&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShf_SiN1nBq-2kAuYxtgZXTdne97T_7WkQC1LHZ-SiqKxCDVo0UP3snlVFi6M7J0NtnWTYby0G8omwtQZiXWAPgHg39Q9OkiSbOB bCDzCWwbZoEBsArXbOz92yjMfyg7vipGySF&sig=AHIEtbTn8ADTVDNoU7hHarjvTM8DltioBQ)


Looks like spoofings out..:)

via Pg 8; "...The ADS-B signal can be spoofed... ...first broached (Dick Smith,) but the hype surrounding it soon evaporated..."


.... though they do seem to skirt thru any possibilitys of the GPS being turned off..:hmm:

At least the critical bit is noted -

"The GPS is an integral component to the ADS-B system and any adverse effect has high consequence..."



Meanwhile, out in the real world, them future Osama's just keep trying...

"...A 26-year-old man from a Boston suburb was arrested Wednesday and accused of plotting to attack the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol with remote-controlled model planes packed with explosives.
These are not balsa-wood-and-rubber-band toys investigators are talking about. The FBI said Rezwan Ferdaus hoped to use military-jet replicas, 5 feet to 7 1/2 feet long, guided by GPS devices..."


Could model airplanes become a terrorist weapon? - US news - Security - msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44724883/ns/us_news-security/t/could-model-airplanes-become-terrorist-weapon/)





.


http://log.newsvine.com/poke.gif?get=jserror&x=99&err=http://platform.linkedin.com/js/nonSecureAnonymousFramework?v=0.0.2000-RC1.18484-1338&:1119:Unable to get value of the property 'on': object is null or undefined&jenga&rand=332252116

[baswell]

Not that it will help our delusional friend BingBoy, but to put things into perspective:

http://i.imgur.com/lijYO.jpg?2844

[Frank Arouet]

Sort of makes an ASIC look dumb and airport security dumber.:ooh:

[Flying Binghi]

.

via baswell; Not that it will help our delusional friend BingBoy, but to put things into perspective:


A post that has little to do with what i've been posting... Hmmm... seems 'poster' baswell hasn't been reading all the other threads on this subject..:hmm:


Fer some 'perspective' some comments via ausairpower -

"...The US FAA is currently looking at the implementation of the Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS), which will see DGPS error signals broadcast over the continental US from geostationary INMARSAT satellites. Aircraft with suitable receivers will thus be able to exploit both wide area and local DGPS schemes to get the best possible positional accuracy.

The USAF have been decidedly unhappy about this development, as they invested US$21 billion into developing and deploying the NavStar constellation, and expend US$600 million yearly to run it, only to have what they perceive to be civilian freeloaders exploit their system and defeat the built in safeguards against hostile use. As things stand, the deployment of the FAA's WAAS will allow anybody with a suitable commercial DGPS receiver to achieve blind bombing accuracies well in excess of what is provided by basic PPS P-code whilst in US airspace.

This is a nightmare for the USAF, responsible for defending US airspace, as the deployment of DGPS will very quickly lead to a virtual complete dependency of the civilian ATC and traffic management system upon DGPS. The option of shutting down the WAAS system, as well as local DGPS beacons would become extremely difficult, even in wartime, as the civilian infrastructure ever cost conscious will have dismantled much of its existing base of older navaids such as VOR/DMEs and NDBs. Even should much of the VOR/DME/NDB infrastructure remain in place and functional, the next issue to contend with is civilian pilot currency. The ease of using GPS/DGPS will see a steady erosion of the skills base and currency in the usage of conventional navaids. Thus shutting down the high accuracy component of the civilian GPS infrastructure would introduce serious operational hazards..."


GPS Guided Weapons - Parts I-V (http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-GPS-Guided-Weps.html)







.

[T28D]

How they vote in the United Nations:
Below are the actual voting records of various Arabic/Islamic States
which are recorded in both the US State Department and United Nations records:

Kuwait votes against the United States 67% of the time
Qatar votes against the United States 67% of the time
Morocco votes against the United States 70% of the time
United Arab Emirates votes against the United States 70% of the time.
Jordan votes against the United States 71% of the time.
Tunisia votes against the United States 71% of the time.
Saudi Arabia votes against the United States 73% of the time.
Yemen votes against the United States 74% of the time.
Algeria votes against the United States 74% of the time.
Oman votes against the United States 74% of the time.
Sudan votes against the United States 75% of the time.
Pakistan votes against the United States 75% of the time.
Libya votes against the United States 76% of the time.
Egypt votes against the United States 79% of the time.
Lebanon votes against the United States 80% of the time.
India votes against the United States 81% of the time.
Syria votes against the United States 84% of the time.
Mauritania votes against the United States 87% of the time.

U S Foreign Aid to those that hate us:

Egypt , for example, after voting 79% of the time against the United States ,
still receives$2,000,000,000 annually in US Foreign Aid.

Jordan votes 71% against the United States
And receives $192,814,000 annually in US Foreign Aid.

Pakistan votes 75% against the United States
Receives $6,721,000,000 annually in US Foreign Aid.

India votes 81% against the United States
Receives $143,699,000 annually.

WHY?

[baswell]

A post that has little to do with what i've been posting...
You mean all those posts about where the terrorists will get us with GPS guided bomb-drones? And that as such, GPS will eventually be taken away from us?

Oh wait, you just made another one!

Even if it is a credible threat, that doesn't mean GPS is going to go away, is it? Last I heard, we still have airliners, rental trucks, petrol and fertiliser, as well as (in the US anyway) easy access to fire arms.

[Jabawocky]

T28D

Why? Is a very good question indeed. With their financial woes, it would make sense to cut all foreign aid immediately. Why they don't? Who knows?


Baswell....don't feed the trolls. Please! It ruins any rational debate.:ugh:

[T28D]

Baswell, Yes I get "IT" and understand they have already won the first battle, we now have security screening on most forms of mass transport , you can't get into a court in Australia without undergoing screening.

Am I worried about the shut down of GPS, No I am not, but am I concerned about the loss of freedoms the changes are bringing, yes I am and so should every Australian.

For General Aviation, fences at regional airports, ASIC for all airside personnel, Federal Police screening for pilots and other aircrew.

And it is getting worse, now it seems we are getting microwave screening at major airports.

Mat be thread drift, only time will tell.

As Gobbledock rightly says about another issue TICK TOCK TICK TOCK

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Good old Carlo, as long as you have a reference to a pig, he is happy:}

The GNSS is an amazing system...Carlo got it wrong in a way. NAVSTAR was the airbourne equivalent of VLF/OMEGA. Both systems shared features where GNSS tracked and measured signals from satellites in known orbits, VLF/OMEGA tracked and measured signals from known ground stations.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

And, speaking of interference-

From AvWeb...FCC to Suspend LightSquared Plans (http://www.avweb.com/avwebbiz/news/FCC_To_Suspend_LightSquared_206185-1.html)

The FCC will indefinitely suspend LightSquared's authority to carry terrestrial broadband signals on frequencies close to GPS frequencies after receiving a report that concludes the two systems cannot currently coexist.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
I noted, last week, that FAA has called tenders for equipment that can comfortably be installed in a small van, to hunt down whoever is deliberately jamming GPS/GBAS signals at several airports in US, where FAA have been conducting trials of such to the equivalent of ILS CAT II/III minima.

Meantime, said trials are suspended.

I am afraid that, as a great supported of the various uses of GPS, I am becoming progressively more aware that we shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket --- which seems to be altogether too close to what Airservices are planning.

And (quiet Ha Ha behind my hand) I notice Airservices are once again trialing approach procedures ------ that we first trialed, very successfully, in Brisbane soon after the new airport opens ----- how long ago??? 25+ years???

You certainly can't accuse Airservices of rushing new technology into operation ---- can you????

Tootle pip!!

[onislandgirl1]

My father flew out of HFD from mid 1960's to later 70's, passed away in mid 2000's.. In cleaning out we have come across some older stuff that I thought I might try to sell.. Is this the right place to try to sell them? I do not want to do anything incorrectly, so I thought I would ask first. Thanks so much!

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Economist article from a year ago-

GPS jamming

No jam tomorrow (http://www.economist.com/node/18304246/)

DSTO article from 12 years ago-

Australia-US defence trials point to more reliable GPS navigation (http://www.dsto.defence.gov.au/news/3290/)

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hi 'onislandgirl'...
Pls check your Private Messages....

Can any Mod assist with some advice here?
:):ok:

[Flying Binghi]

.

via baswell #274; Not that it will help our delusional friend BingBoy, but to put things into perspective:...



via baswell #278; You mean all those posts about where the terrorists will get us with GPS guided bomb-drones? And that as such, GPS will eventually be taken away from us?

Oh wait, you just made another one!

Even if it is a credible threat, that doesn't mean GPS is going to go away, is it? Last I heard, we still have airliners, rental trucks, petrol and fertiliser, as well as (in the US anyway) easy access to fire arms.


Hmmm... well, baswell, i dont actualy see much of any thread relavence to your comments. Offering up the unconnected dramatic "THE RISK OF TERRORISM" graphic seems a bit piontless.
To date there has been very little in the way of terrorists using bombed up GPS guided UAV's so how do you know what the actual impact will be on the general populance ? I'm thinkin once them terrorists start using GPS guided UAV bombs with the ability to hit within one cubic metre of air space they will probably be a bit selective of the targets - probably be political or business leaders.



"Last I heard, we still have airliners, rental trucks, petrol and fertiliser"

baswell, if you had been reading the many threads on this subject yer woulda seen the main senario i have been presenting is of small GPS guided UAV bombs launched from outside Australia's territorial boundry. It is very hard if not imposible at this time for Oz to counter such a threat apart from turning off the GPS 'targeting signal'.

baswell re your reference to "airliners, rental trucks, petrol and fertilisers" they are the possible tools of Oz based (i.e. in-house) wanna-be osama's. To date Oz security has a good track record of stopping those bad boys before they get to far - e.g. them footy bombers.

One of the side effects of being very effective at stopping the 'in-house' terrorist attacks is them bad boys have to look at launching an attack from outside the country.....





.

[Flying Binghi]

.

via OZBUSDRIVER #281; Good old Carlo, as long as you have a reference to a pig, he is happy

The GNSS is an amazing system...Carlo got it wrong in a way...



OZBUSDRIVER, i guess yer refering to Dr Carlo Kopp. How did Carlo go with these other comments from 2008 ?....

"...only to have what they perceive to be civilian freeloaders exploit their system and defeat the built in safeguards against hostile use. As things stand, the deployment of the FAA's WAAS will allow anybody with a suitable commercial DGPS receiver to achieve blind bombing accuracies well in excess of what is provided by basic PPS P-code whilst in US airspace.

This is a nightmare for the USAF, responsible for defending US airspace, as the deployment of DGPS will very quickly lead to a virtual complete dependency of the civilian ATC and traffic management system upon DGPS..."

GPS Guided Weapons - Parts I-V (http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-GPS-Guided-Weps.html)







.

[baswell]

I am afraid that, as a great supported of the various uses of GPS, I am becoming progressively more aware that we shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket --- which seems to be altogether too close to what Airservices are planning.
There is a time and place for everything. Relying only on GPS precision approaches at Sydney because you save a few million by turning off the ILS would indeed be stupid and it is neither the time nor the place.

Using the technology to bring that capability to a place like Broken Hill means the risk of a truckie that doesn't want their boss to track them and using a jammer is very low. At the same time it might well save someone's life as the RFDS would be able to get in at times they might not. (Or some other strip more likely to be in IMC than YBHI!)

And have good rules for alternates; you know when the signal is being jammed and most likely you won't have any trouble 100 miles away...

So yeah, don't be stupid, but also don't let it stop you from deploying this in places where the best you might have now is an unreliable NDB...

[Flying Binghi]

.

...don't let it stop you from deploying this.....

Yep, nothin to worry about... yet..:hmm:

Just wait until them bad boys manage to hook up the GPS...

"...The notion that a terrorist group might entertain using a UAV is by no means far-fetched. One recent accounting of terrorist activity notes 43 recorded cases involving 14 terrorist groups in which remote-controlled delivery systems were "either threatened, developed or actually utilized," including al-Qai'da plans to use unmanned airplanes to kill leaders at the 2002 G-8 summit in Genoa, Italy..."


Addressing the Spread of Cruise Missiles and Unmanned Air Vehicles (UAVs) | Articles | NTI Analysis | NTI (http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/addressing-spread-cruise-missiles/)





.

[Flying Binghi]

.

Heh, one should always read the footnotes - amazing what yer find...

Reference the Husain Iraq UAV programme;

"...They eventually did recognize that a foreign global positioning system (GPS) system would have to be acquired and integrated into a flight management system..."

"...[27] Duelfer Report, www.cia.gov; The Iraqi ambassador to Russia purchased GPS components for their UAV program from Russian technicians working at their homes, supposedly without the knowledge of the Russian government. Iraq also reportedly obtained four Micropilot MP2000 and two 3200VG autopilots from an Australia-based procurement agent..."


Unmanned Air Vehicles as Terror Weapons: Real or Imagined? | Articles | NTI Analysis | NTI (http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/unmanned-air-vehicles-terror-weapons/)





.

[Frank Arouet]

This will terrify the plebs then;

20 February 2012
The trial of an operation using remotely controlled aircraft to monitor beach safety in south east Queensland will require approval from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
More information can be found on the CASA website. (mhtml:{B39EE9F3-2420-4EFA-9500-3C893C85FAB8}mid://00000009/!x-usc:http://casa.grapevine.com.au/lists/lt.php?id=f0UGAQIHBAYFHVFTAAdLBQA%3D)

[tail wheel]

onislandgirl1

No. This is PPRuNe, not EBay.

[Flying Binghi]

.

Well, looks like Dr Carlo Kopp got it right then...

OZBUSDRIVER, i guess yer refering to Dr Carlo Kopp. How did Carlo go with these other comments from 2008 ?....

"...only to have what they perceive to be civilian freeloaders exploit their system and defeat the built in safeguards against hostile use. As things stand, the deployment of the FAA's WAAS will allow anybody with a suitable commercial DGPS receiver to achieve blind bombing accuracies well in excess of what is provided by basic PPS P-code whilst in US airspace.

This is a nightmare for the USAF, responsible for defending US airspace, as the deployment of DGPS will very quickly lead to a virtual complete dependency of the civilian ATC and traffic management system upon DGPS..."




More on the danger of relying on GPS to any extent...

"...terrorists have understood the increasing dependence of the states on modern technologies and hence, are also making technology infrastructures as their potential targets in order to deny the state its usage and to create fear and panic..."

http://www.skyjack.co.il/pdf/jds_3_3_alele_amishra.pdf





.

[Flying Binghi]

.

Hmmm... via pg 24, Flight Safety Australia, March/April 2012...


"...Australia is at a watershed in its ATM, with many legacy ground-based navaids, such as non-directional beacons (NDB) and VHF omni-range (VOR) equipment, approaching the end of their useful life. The intention is to complete the transition to satellite navigation, which commenced in 1995, by early 2016, while retaining selected navaids to back up and mitigate any problems with GPS..."


Heh, to "back up andmitigate any problems with GPS"... Why the backup ?, whatever could go wrong with the all singing all dancing GPS..?

.....and whats with the "problems"..... not just a problem, we got problems with GPS..:confused:







.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

The problems are extra terrestrial interference :E

[Flying Binghi]

.

The problems are extra terrestrial interference

Thats illuminating..:hmm:



OZBUSDRIVER, from the info yer have referenced here it looks like there has been next to no real research done into the problems with GPS.

Going off the threads here pionting out how the current aviation minister is incompetant its not surprising how little thought (or perhaps just a lot of greed, hang the consequence sorta thinkin) has gone into the matter... ah guess we will have to wait and see what the next aviation minister makes of it all..:)








.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Wow! Quick reply. Binghi, I had to think what I was commenting on back then. If you remember, we just had a rare( in terms of the current very quiet solar cycle) solar storm. In hindsight? It didn't amount to much interference. Polarity was favorable for minimal interference.

[Jabawocky]

That problem solved!

LightSquared files for bankruptcy after plans for network are dashed - The Hill's Hillicon Valley (http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/227235-wireless-startup-lightsquared-files-for-bankruptcy)

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Hope this decision is set in concrete.

[baswell]

Hopefully it has woken up some people about just how easy it is to jam GPS or any satellite based navigation system.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Roll on L5 for mid 2013!
EDIT to add L5 pseudolites transmitting from existing DME and wizzbang Chip Scale Atomic Clocks and who needs LAAS for CatIII.

Reading up on this. Appears to effectively cancel out cheapo GPS jammer interference.

[Flying Binghi]

That problem solved!

LightSquared files for bankruptcy after plans for network are dashed - The Hill's Hillicon Valley (http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/227235-wireless-startup-lightsquared-files-for-bankruptcy)

Interesting to see how it pans out. The GPS squatters do not own the bandwith... more legals ah suspect..:hmm:





.

[Flying Binghi]

.

North Korea reminds us that terrorists/terrorist states will use one of the key tools at their disposal to attack the free peoples of this world... the tool is GPS...

"... it appears that North Korea, determined to drive U.S. forces off the Korean Peninsula, may have successfully jabbed at this Achilles’ Heel...

...North Korea’s jammers have so far proved merely aggravating to U.S. and South Korean forces. Scrambling GPS signals won’t cause planes to drop from the sky. Planes can still establish their position with radar..."

...“It’s a wake-up call,” said David Last, a British GPS specialist and University of Wales professor emeritus who has consulted with South Korean officials...


Other possibilities...

...Cheap, effective and sold on the Internet, GPS jammers are ideal for tech geek terrorism. Experts warn that a few dozen jammers, strapped to remote control planes and launched over a major city, could sow plenty of panic: disrupting ATM withdrawals, air traffic controllers, ambulance routes and..."

North Korea (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/110916/north-korea%E2%80%99s-gps-jammer-brigade-spy-plane)








.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

You really need to study some more, Binghi. Give you a hint...background radiation:E

EDIT- Tell me, surely you do not believe anything that comes out of North Korea? That would say so much about your character, Binghi. Although I refrain from personal jibes on this thread...you really are desparate if you believe this type of propaganda all the time.

[Frank Arouet]

EDIT to add L5 pseudolites transmitting from existing DME and wizzbang Chip Scale Atomic Clocks and who needs LAAS for CatIII.

I guess the EDIT was to confuse me. It worked, but it's still bollocks:p

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Interesting read-
FAILURE DETECTION OF A PSEUDOLITE-BASED REFERENCE
SYSTEM USING RESIDUAL MONITORING (http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a499623.pdf)

millimetre accuracy and rather topical, Binghi.

[Flying Binghi]

.


OZBUSDRIVER;
You really need to study some more, Binghi. Give you a hint...background radiation...


Nah, i'm still in the dark - yer need to "illuminate" some more there..:)



OZBUSDRIVER;
Tell me, surely you do not believe anything that comes out of North Korea? That would say so much about your character, Binghi. Although I refrain from personal jibes on this thread...you really are desparate if you believe this type of propaganda all the time.


North Korea's futile attempts at disrupting GPS are fairly well documented - ah suggests a google search will tell yer more.

Be mindfull of what these attacks are telling us. North Korea has limited ways to strike out - GPS is a tool that it can use either through jamming attempts or as a guidence tool for bombed up UAVs... much the same as other terrorist groups.


OZBUSDRIVER;
rather topical...


Lets start with a google of "pseudolites" and "UAV" and see what we get..:)








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[baswell]

GPS is a tool that it can use either through jamming attempts or as a guidence tool for bombed up UAVs
Just not at the same time! :ok:

You can overpower GPS signals in a limited area quite easily. As those frequencies are easy to triangulate, it would also be very temporary.

My money is on those HARM-type missiles being able to lock on to the GPS frequency quite well also.

Still, all eggs in one basket is not a great idea and it would be nice to be as smart as the UK and invest in a good eLoran system which thanks to its low frequencies is virtually un-jammable. It won't give you precision approaches or targeting, but it will get you where you need to go...

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Something for your tablet PC

GNS5890 ADS-B Receiver USB stick (http://www.ozpilot.com.au/Avionics/ADSB-Receiver/GNS-5890-ADS-B-Receiver-USB-Stick/p-86-311-1065/)

[Flying Binghi]

Something for your tablet PC


"tablet PC"..... aint that what Moses held up... salvation.


I'm told there been sumthin simular in mobile phones fer a while..:)



via OZBUSDRIVER; You really need to study some more, Binghi...




I await the lumination..:hmm:







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[Flying Binghi]

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Meanwhile, the terrorists keep experimenting...

"North Korea has been sending GPS jamming signals since April 28, wreaking havoc with civilian aviation and fishing fleets. Over the last 12 days, 624 passenger planes operated by Korean Air and Asiana Airlines, and 49 foreign carriers were affected by GPS jamming and one U.S. military aircraft on the way from Beijing to Yokohama also experienced disruption. There were four close calls where passenger jets approaching Incheon and Gimpo airports abruptly shifted course when their GPS malfunctioned and landed only after circling the airports..."


The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - N.Korea's GPS Jamming Is Terrorism Pure and Simple (http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2012/05/11/2012051101175.html)







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[Flying Binghi]

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GPS do have its problems...

(h/t to ExRAFRadar)

"American researchers took control of a flying drone by "hacking" into its GPS system - acting on a $1,000 (£640) dare from the US Department of Homeland Security (DHS).

A University of Texas at Austin team used "spoofing" - a technique where the drone mistakes the signal from hackers for the one sent from GPS satellites.

The same method may have been used to..." continues -BBC News - Researchers use spoofing to 'hack' into a flying drone (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18643134)






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[OZBUSDRIVER]

Finally! Development of a Portable GPS Civilian Spoofer (http://radionavlab.ae.utexas.edu/images/stories/files/papers/ion2008r01_for_distributionW.pdf)

Cool trick in a stadium with a model helicopter...UAV....yehright:hmm:

But...does it scale up? Any new satellites pop into view and the spoofer has to move quickly to spoof the new signal...have to admit...pretty simple theory....

More reading ahead!

That BBC article? Bloody gone viral!

[Flying Binghi]

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Follow the discusion - http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/489254-hacking-drones.html




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[T28D]

Binghi Great to see you are still staying with the program

[Flying Binghi]

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There's a "program"...:ooh:



Whilst we is lookin at demo's, ah wonder how this went...


Offer to demonstrate ‘spoofing’ of Airservices ADS-B system... ...easy for a person (using a minimal amount of money) to create mayhem...


Potential 'spoofing' of Airservices Australia ADS-B (http://www.dicksmithflyer.com.au/DS_to_Minister_re_ADS-B_spoofing.php)

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Ahhhhh was waiting for this to appear. Binghi, the Smith argument was "Spoofing" targets to fool TAAATS. Note the difference?

The question is how much does this translate into the real world? Create a constellation con a basic device to believe it is seeing real satellites and direct it to travel in a predrescribed way according to shifts in the bogus constellation. Cool trick within the confines of a stadium with a model helicopter "UAV"

Noting these guys examine the system to protect it. Interesting to see what developments come out to protect against any threats.

[Flying Binghi]

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Guidence provided by GPS...


"Iran is a leader in drone manufacturing, Iran's Defense Minister Brigadier General Ahmad Vahidi said, Fars reported.

General Vahidi spoke about the drones manufacturing during his visit to Meshed, while attending the Aviation Center opening in that city.

Iran made reports earlier that country can and will manufacture its own drones.

Iran's military has the ability to build unmanned aircraft and is in the process of doing so. Country already has several long-range aircraft with high detection capabilities along with several models of invasive drones..."



General Vahidi: Iran is a leader in drone manufacturing - Trend (http://en.trend.az/regions/iran/1970960.html)







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[Jabawocky]

Only if TAAATS is given a month of the spoofing, paperwork filled in and the reception of data verified.

Otherwise TAAATS knows nothing of the "spoofed signal"

Clearly none of you have been through this at all. :ugh:

not even you Ozbus, or you would realise the wind up is ....well unwound! :ok:

[OZBUSDRIVER]

:}Jaba, the Smith argument was debunked years ago on exactly your premise.

The Uni of Texas claim is to mimic GNSS to "capture" a basic gps. Does this represent a security issue? Can a terrestrial signal be ignored by antenna mounted on upper surfaces of an aircraft? Does that then create issues with terrestrial L5 networks? Is the threat scaleable?

At this point I would call this as a good party trick. Open field testing at typical aviation environment is required.

[Flying Binghi]

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...Open field testing at typical aviation environment is required...



"A Massachusetts man charged with plotting to attack the Pentagon and the United States Capitol building with large, remote-controlled model airplanes packed with explosives has agreed to plead guilty, authorities said..."


Man guilty of model-plane Pentagon attack plot - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-11/man-guilty-of-model-plane-pentagon-attack-plot/4122668)







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[Flying Binghi]

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Some old news from 2006...


"...Momin Khawaja of Ottawa was devising a way to fit a remote-controlled model airplane with explosives, a London terrorism trial of seven Britons charged with plotting to bomb sites in Britain heard yesterday.
What's more, the trial was told, a senior al-Qaeda figure in Pakistan wanted the men to unleash a simultaneous wave of bombings in Britain in 2004...

... told court yesterday that "Momin Khawaja and his brother were working on a GPS-navigated model airplane which could be fitted with explosives..."


Ottawa man tried to arm model plane with bomb, court told (http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=720a5823-cf0d-4211-9904-f009b2698364)







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