Qantas Staff Travel

[SYD_QF]

I have met Joyce twice in two separate forums. He has mentioned in both forums that he wants to ‘re-engage’ staff. Not a surprise since his predecessor disengaged most employees to the point of ridiculous. One quick way to make staff happy would be to bring our staff travel system in line with other carriers.
I have many mates who work for other carriers.They laugh at our staff travel system as I have yet to come across any carrier that charges for upgrades etc. Some benefits our competitor companies offer:
No charge for upgrades for anyone
Several free coupons per year to use on the network
Ability to purchase staff travel at the ticket counters, or dedicated self-service booths
Staff travel tickets can be given to anyone (no six month limits for beneficiaries)
I realise we make revenue from staff travel (it would seem we make more revenue than any other carrier) and also realise it is a privilege, not a right. But it has gotten to the point where it is more expensive than travelling full-fare at times :rolleyes:
But seriously, a major re-vamp to our current staff travel system to be similar to our competitors would be a really quick boost to staff morale. Yet with no counter service, charging for just a quote, and waiting on hold for 3 hours just to talk to a staff travel consultant – it is not worth the effort anymore. With cost differences and ease of use I now give my money to Tiger,VB or ZED fares, as it isn’t worth the QF staff travel cost or the rigmarole. If Joyce came up with a better system it would not only improve morale instantly, they would get all of the revenue that goes to other carriers. An really, we are only filling empty seats, so the cost to the organisation is minimal.
What do people think?

[hadagutfull]

I think FBT has a bit to do with it... but i agree with your opinion.
Better off using LCC's for short trips.. at least you get on!

[farrari]

QF staff travel on Buss class is much cheaper than VA, to LA QF around $663- VA $2000.

[twiggs]

Actually I think QF's staff travel has improved in many ways over the last couple of years.
Eg, fares have dropped rather than increased whereas ZED as steadily increased, and most things can be done online and therefore there is little need to call or visit them.

Two things that I find wrong with our system compared to others is
1. the fuel surcharge still remains on international flights and it is the same amount for SYD-LAX and SYD-AKL and
2. the lack of transparency regarding the onload priority of staff on a specific flight.

[packrat]

Treat your employees with respect not contempt.
The difference between staff travel airfares and airfares available online is minimal.
At least when you check in as a commercial pax you are not treated as a criminal .
The jack booted queens at Sydney Staff Check in are unbelievably rude.
One little swine had my 80 year old mother in tears while I was retrieving something from the car.
He wont forget me in a hurry

[Mr. Hat]

Its all part of the long term erosion of benefits for airline pilots/staff. I've never used staff travel at my current work as its just all too hard and I can't be bothered dealing with the arrogance of the admin aviation ring-ins. I pay full fare every single time and on a year to year basis and it costs thousands. It has a massive impact as I don't see friends and family anywhere near as much as I would if i could.

I listen to collegues who've been in the industry for 20 or 30 years and they tell me what it was like 'back in the day' - I shake my head and wonder. I think if you want this to change you need to make it one of the points in your future eba discussions.

Good luck.

[Ken Borough]

Most non-airline staff are extraordoinarily envious of Staff Travel and do not understand the difficulties staff travellers face from time to time, regardless of their own empyment perks that are available without restraint or commercial needs. As the media also watch this site, I'd suggest caution in any public forum discussion on the topic. I can see the headline now.......


Also, be careful for what you wish.

[No Idea Either]

Bit of a thread drift but do you know what is the best staff perk i've ever heard of in any occupation.....Queensland Health - salary sacrifice your mortgage payments!!! How good is that. They end up paying no tax and you and I pay for the villa!!! The missus is trying to get in there now before this one goes out the window.

Back to the thread, you reckon QF is bad, try VB or VA staff travel. They are both a joke.

Back in the box.

[En-Rooter]

salary sacrifice your mortgage payments!!!


You sure they aren't being grossed up? (to an amount that would equal the tax that should be paid)

And those benefits can be withdrawn at any time, our employer withdrew a benefit because of abuse by one inbreed. :ugh:

[airtags]

OK now don't get precious, but how about this idea.


Staff Travel can be booked well in advance (not the current limited forwar window but even up to a year ahead)
P,J,WC can be selected as an extra cost option for any employee and their immediate travelling partner
Allocation of upgrade is on avail basis in order of booking
Other onload/upgrades for those that don't want to pay the extra are then made as avail in order of booking
Cost is on value of FBT + notional contributionRATIONALE:
In this manner staff travel becomes cash flow positive, and a short/medium term revenue pool for the company. In other words there is a financial reason for the company to want it!

Those paying and planning ahead are not unsurped by someone who has a few more days on the job and decides on a whim to travel an hour before the flight goes.

People working for the company are not shunted by someone's relative who does not.

Managing the system is simpler and more streamlined -

It is transparent as the every booking has a sequence number anyway

Premium cabins look better when they are full


AT

Note - any replies advocating seniority as the sacred cow - please ensure that you include in your response the economic benefit to the business and how the seniority concept adds to the engagement of staff.

..........incoming.......!1!!!!!

[hongkongfooey]

SYD, your mates obviously don't work for CX/KA who charge for upgrades a la QF, the difference is ( I think ) we get the extra dosh back if we have to travel in cattle, we also get 4 free tickets a year ( pay the taxes ).
However, the QF staff travel website is far better than what we have and far easier to book tickets on your own airline.
When we look at the loadings we get stupid colour codes, red, yellow or green and don't really know how many seats are left ( CX guys can get into res system tho )
Cheers

[indamiddle]

if you are happy to travel in economy try the ZED fares with other airlines, no fuel surcharge so your ticket is heaps cheaper and airlines like SQ and EK have heaps more destinations in euro (25 and 29) compared to QF (2). i use QF tickets as a backup

[Metro man]

Always worth looking at other airlines special offers, particularly at the moment. Etihad had a BN-SIN-BN special for about $500 last month. SQ are doing a few "two to travel" deals and EK have some offers on for holders of specific credit cards.

Breakaway Travel and World Interline Tours are worth considering too.

[Kiwiconehead]

I've been pretty happy with QF staff travel - had some good trips, I'll miss it when I finish up in Sept (yay redundancy) but there are some cheap fares available commercially now.

Hopefully by the time prices go up I'll have a new job and be rich and won't have to worry.

[rammel]

The are only a couple of things about staff travel that irk me. The first is that our high priority trips should be confirmed at least once a year. The only time this may bump some other customers would be in school holidays, but the rest of the year probably wouldn't make too much difference. The second is the fuel surcharge on staff tickets, though that has slowly been reduced lately.

I don't mind not being able to book too far in advance, as after all we are filling empty seats. I normally have checked out what I want to do and what zed fares I should get as back ups and do the zed fare and any long service trips over the phone 10 days before I need to travel. Also with International travel 2 weeks out with give you a pretty accurate idea of what the flight will be like.

It also amazes me how many staff do not travel with back up tickets. If you cant afford at least one back up ticket, then you probably can not afford to go on holiday. I was in BKK when one of the coups happend (2006?), the coup happened overnight and I was due to come home that afternoon. I was there on a 6 day break, and before I went the QF flight had almost 100 seats coming home and the BA also had seats. Well every man and his dog was trying to get home and as a consequnce no staff were going to get on QF or BA. Talking to other staff in the que, they were also on days off and needed to get home to start work. They were cutting it fine to be back at work, I had one day up my sleeve. Talking to them I found out that they did not have any back ups, just QF/BA ticket. I had a back up and got out on TG which had 50 seats available. I always get backups when I go overseas even if I'm pretty sure I don't need them.

Regarding upgrades overall they are done as they should be. I work in an area where I have access to that info and it all seems to work ok. If you feel you have been dudded and can get the info, staff travel do follow that up and act on it. Seniority and catergories seem to work out ok. I'm pretty much in the middle and have rarely missed out on an upgrade.

There are plenty resources on the net for you to use to research which flights and back up tickets you need, have a look on the staff travel site for the links. Since everything is now online I've rarely had to wait too long on the phone to talk to them. Don't call on a monday morning or friday arvo and it isn't too bad.

I'm not in Staff Travel, but if you know the system, you can make it work for you and get the most out of it.

[griffin one]

How about bringing jq staff travel inline with mainline. Where senority and years of service count. No lining up like bogan moths to a flame.

[Normasars]

Hey Griff,

But you forget that JQ and bogun go hand in hand. Just like " 2 peas in a pod".


LOL.

[Fliegenmong]

Was recently back in LA, and those feckers at the check in desk there......
Quite a game ain't it.....standing respectfully opposite them with 5 mins to go......been doing iot for years, all over the world.......pain in the arse...sure but step back...look at the guy over the road....mowing his lawn looking forward to the next footy game...never knowing the abstract thrill of staff travel..or the fabulous expense of feeding wife and kids in far flung parts at short notice, and all but wiping out most of the cost saving on the tkt.....explain the complexity and hit and miss nature of staff travel to the great unwashed and then they take on a different idea of it....that year long planned holiday? Go oput to the airport 3 days in a row and miss aircraft...there is more to the story......

LAX check in staff take note.....except for that delightful Afro American lady who checked Mrs Fliegs and I through to JFK with incredible good service recently....you reallt were wonderful...

[Long Bay Mauler]

The system could be made better if you knew exactly where you sat in the priority queue.

The BA staff travel website is good as it shows you your catergory in order but no names thus allowing you to know where you should be in relation to all other staff and duty travellers.

Would make me feel better than seeing some young 22 yr old hostie rock up and get my J class seat all because she knows the girls behind the desk.

Dont laugh,because I have seen it happen.

And you know what,it will happen to you at some stage.

P.S. And she wasnt on duty travel either.Cow :ugh:

[Ka.Boom]

Which port was this?
Did you buy an upgradeable ticket?
She may have been travelling on her fathers category.
Tough for you if he was a Captain

[Arthur Boy]

Bugs, did you report it??.....its very clear how it works and if there is any fraudulent activity, severe penalties apply.

So if you are sure, report it. Thats how to stop these cheaters. I dont mind whatever the systems, as long as we all play by the rules.....

[rammel]

As I said in my previous post, if you report it and have all the relavent details Staff Travel do follow it up. I know someone that missed out on an upgrade and the person that got the upgrade was not even entitled to it, she was a contractor where the flight was coming from. Staff Travel followed this up and it was acted on.

[Short_Circuit]

And then, there is that dreaded "Sorry Sir, there are no meals left" :sad:
If you pay for a J/C upgrade you should at least be guaranteed a meal!

[DeaLMeouT]

I agree with No Idea Either.

I don’t think anyone can complain about their staff travel until they experience staff travel at VB. It is truly an absolute joke. Not only are our uniforms a laughing stock around the world, the same goes for our staff travel policies.

You cannot occupy an exit seat, even if you are paxing. You cannot sit forward of an over wing exit. No upgrade (and I use the term “upgrade” loosely) to premium economy. No one else sits in them. It couldn’t hurt to have a few nicely dressed staff travelers sitting there. It might even help promote the red seats to other pax? The majority of times when I have called staff travel with some Q’s the standard response is… “It’s all online”.

I have had the “privilege” (no sarcasm) to have experienced staff travel with three other airlines in my career. It was a beautiful thing. Unlimited free travel on your own airline. Free automatic upgrades. Free travel on some negotiated “other airlines” Complete online booking systems with to the minute detailed load factor information. The perks go on…………

Most people at VB are oblivious to what staff travel other airline provide to their employees. If only they knew.

As for QF staff at LAX, Fliegenmong is spot on!

I have staffed traveled on QF through LAX no less than six times and I can tell you that they really do treat staff travelers like third rate inhabitants. They seem to have a keen eye to spot airline employee even before you get to the check in counter. And once they verify that you are…its all downhill from there. The whole nonsense of making you wait right to literally the last few minutes before departure can be very stressful and is completely unnecessary. There will be no one else around except a handful of staff travelers waiting to find out if they are even getting on the flight and they completely ignore you until they are good and ready to acknowledge your existence. It is totally uncalled for.

Airlines here in Australia have a lot to learn on how they treat their employees. “We are a family here at Bull****e Airlines”, “It’s the employees that are the heart and soul of this airline”, “Without the tiresome efforts of our employees we would not be able to operate so successfully”, bla bla bla bal!!!

Show us your appreciation and give us real staff travel benifets!!

Just my two cents worth anyway.

[Qantas 787]

Some great comments there DeaLMeouT.

I agree with the comment about knowing where you are in the queue - the US carriers have where you are on the standby list and how many people have been cleared.

Why can't they have a section on the website saying what number you are (no names) on the list. e.g. 30 staff listed, you are number 20. If you know you have no hope, you will change your plans and that seems easier to manage at check in.

[capt_akun]

What does capt, FO and So gets on staff travel in mainline, Jq and QL?

Does FO get international business, while capt gets international first?

[Waghi Warrior]

From my experiences,staff travel is a pain. Now days you can usually get cheaper tickets with VB or JQ if you plan well ahead. At least you are assured a seat.

[rammel]

The main reason staff are left on standby till the last minute ex LAX, is the high fuel uplift required for the sector back to Australia. There shouldn't be any reason that you don't know if you're on or not at 30 mins before departure. The reason for this is that the flight closes at -30mins, so all the no-shows are known then and that is also when the upgrades should be done for those that don't yet have them.

Having said all that LAX is the worst I've experienced. HKG was the best. I thought I would ask at the train station on HKG Island if I could check in there, and I let them know I was staff. Not only was it ok, but got my upgrade and choice of seats in J class, and it was reasonably full. HKG was great, but arrival in MEL was shocking took a good hour and a bit to clear Customs and collect bag. Lucky AQIS didn't want to x-ray my stuff.

[Pedota]

Just for fun, and with apologies to DeaLMeouT, I substituted the words staff/employee for customer/s in his post above . . . it nearly makes sense and what a different message it sends!! Perhaps another way to get a better staff travel plan is to entice more customers to airline by offering them better value and service?

Cheers

Pedota

I agree with No Idea Either.

I don’t think anyone can complain about their customer travel until they experience customer travel at VB. It is truly an absolute joke. Not only are our uniforms a laughing stock around the world, the same goes for our customer travel policies.

You cannot occupy an exit seat, even if you are paxing. You cannot sit forward of an over wing exit. No upgrade (and I use the term “upgrade” loosely) to premium economy. No one else sits in them. It couldn’t hurt to have a few nicely dressed customer travelers sitting there. It might even help promote the red seats to other pax? The majority of times when I have called customer travel with some Q’s the standard response is… “It’s all online”.

I have had the “privilege” (no sarcasm) to have experienced customer travel with three other airlines in my career. It was a beautiful thing. Unlimited free travel on your own airline. Free automatic upgrades. Free travel on some negotiated “other airlines” Complete online booking systems with to the minute detailed load factor information. The perks go on…………

Most people at VB are oblivious to what customer travel other airline provide to their customers. If only they knew.

As for QF customers at LAX, Fliegenmong is spot on!

I have customer traveled on QF through LAX no less than six times and I can tell you that they really do treat customer travelers like third rate inhabitants. They seem to have a keen eye to spot airline customer even before you get to the check in counter. And once they verify that you are…its all downhill from there. The whole nonsense of making you wait right to literally the last few minutes before departure can be very stressful and is completely unnecessary. There will be no one else around except a handful of customer travelers waiting to find out if they are even getting on the flight and they completely ignore you until they are good and ready to acknowledge your existence. It is totally uncalled for.

Airlines here in Australia have a lot to learn on how they treat their customers. “We are a family here at Bull****e Airlines”, “It’s the customers that are the heart and soul of this airline”, “Without the tiresome efforts of our customers we would not be able to operate so successfully”, bla bla bla bal!!!

Show us your appreciation and give us real customer travel benifets!!

Just my two cents worth anyway.

[lowerlobe]

staff travel is a privilege
Well N-BW,this is where the company and it's collaborators have it wrong...

When I started it was part of the employment package.....included in the advert for the position was the phrase.."and a generous staff travel package".

A friend of mine who when finishing uni was offered two positions with different companies.One was with our mob and the other was with a large computer software business...

The pay with us was substantially lower than the position with the software business.When he mentioned this he was told that it was lower but that with the airline he would get a "generous staff travel package".

Now,of course the company will tell us all now that it is a privilege and not a right....
As for last minute 'stressful' boarding moments - it's part of the deal albeit not nice....its like Jetstar PAX who pay $59 to Maroochydore and expect caviar and Dom on board!!
Keep it real...
How many times have we done this and when we get to the aircraft we find it only half full.....what was the need to do that?

I keep thinking it is a game to some of the ground staff and that they like to watch staff run for it....

This is all very similar to the banks when they started to install ATM's.They told us that they could reduce staff to save money and give their customers better and more efficient access to their money.

Now they are charging us to use them......

Sound familiar?

N-BW....I think it's you that should keep it real...:=

[ampclamp]

Firstly I wish to say "cheap" staff travel is a great thing but there are drawbacks too.With kids in tow I've elected to drive interstate rather than endure the stress of being bumped & stranded.QF hardly fly anywhere domestically worth a holiday anyway these days.
it is a lottery on whether you'll get out of it cheaper or not being stranded in a strange land. carting your partner and kids around without knowing you'll get on would be best described as "an adventure".

I used it domestically for the first time in ages recently and paid for the upgrade. Surely it would not be too much to ask if looking at the loads and listings and upgrade status that even a basic meal is available for a flt of around 4 hours?!
I feel for the crew explaining they've run out of meals.
It was bleeding obvious it was going to be a full ship both ways so why cant the tight ar$e$ actually cater it properly. We are filling empty seats for goodness sake.

Just a note to thank the cab crew who bent over backwards in papering over the cracks left by check in and catering.:ok:

Anyone tried using the phone for international travel? 2 hours on the blower. Lets just say not everyone does it from home.

I do think that planning farther ahead is the key and use of commercial tickets when discounts are there. Join the frequent flyer scheme , put all your credit card stuff and groceries on it.If you cant beat em join em.

AJ could certainly revamp the scheme.Quite a few I know dont use it and would trade it off for a small increase in wages or simply the availability of a guaranteed seat once or twice a year at a discount subject to loads as now.

[the rim]

no meals left....well have you seen a cabin crew member wander past j-class on their way down the back with a oven tray and a tea towel covering meals "that were not avail"...i guess they are going to feed some y class pax's mmmmm as for the travel part i have been at qf for a bit and have seen lots of thing happen but mostly i am ok with it as long as they fix up the rourts that check in staff sometimes do like bumping long time staff and upgrading ones with less service ...lets face it that is one reason for staying ..you go up the scale

[DeaLMeouT]

I don’t think anyone will dispute the fact that you have to accept the risk of being bumped whenever on staff travel. That’s a given. But that has nothing to do with being treated so disrespectfully buy anxious check in staff that takes their one ounce of authority and then run a mile with it. There is no valid reason to be treated so poorly. Obviously not every gate agent or check in chick behaves like this, but in my experience a lot do.

Furthermore I don’t see what’s wrong with comparing US airlines and their staff travel policies versus Australian airlines. At the end of the day it’s up to the individual airline to present policies and negotiate other airline deals. In my opinion and in the opinion of many of my colleagues, what deals and policies present by a given airline directly reflects the appreciation or should I say “the lack of” for their staff.

Again, with respect to staff travel, Australian airlines have a lot to learn from US carriers.

[indamiddle]

if you know someone on the ground who has access to the P/ and S/ (confirmed and standby) list and can give you a hard printout or email it to you can be a great tool when you check in for staff travel. just make sure you place it on the counter where they can read it. they become very nervous but also ensures no person jumps the queue. the last time when i did this the check in staff asked me where i got the list from. i replied "same place as you do". yep, no drama getting my upgrade and in the right sequence.

[Jet-A-One]

I think onload category should be based purely on years of service. I don't see why a person that's been there a year should get on before someone with 20 years service just because they use an "annual leave trip".

I agree, it would be good to know your ranking in the stand-by list too.

And has anyone noticed the availability on the staff travel website doesn't show by how much a flight is over booked. It used to read into the negatives which is handy when choosing between 2 heavily booked flights when stuck somewhere.

[the rim]

yes inda i agree it is nice when you see where you sit on the regrade list ....in my experance its mostly domestic where the problem is[and syd international] remembering back to the days of the merger if you said upgrade instead of of regrade they knew you were international staff and you dropped to the bottom

[jungle juice]

well have you seen a cabin crew member wander past j-class on their way down the back with a oven tray and a tea towel covering meals "that were not avail".
What a load of rubbish.How do you know what meals they are?
No crew in economy will be eating while the meal service is still going on in Business class so why would they be carrying back food?.

Fiction is a lot more interesting than reality isn't it?

[the rim]

hey jungle lay of the juice .....i have seen many times cc going down the back with j-class meals covered with a tea towel and this is after the j-class meal has been severed and it happens on dom and int and i have done a lot of travel for a lot of years....i dont have a problem with cc eating meals as long as your choise was avail when asked ......i have taken the cold meal when no hot ones left then seen a tray of hot ones go aft

[Pegasus747]

When you see Cabin crew going down the back with a tray of meals covered by a tea towel or cloth it is their crew meals.

And no they should never ever give it to the passengers. It would be like going into their wallet and shouting them a meal in the terminal. They might work 4 legs and get the opportunity to eat the one meal provided to them and if there is not enough meals loaded for passengers then that's too bloody bad.

Crew meals are the same as money in the pay packet. Just as you wouldnt give that to a punter who had been short changed by management decisions, neither should you give up your crew meal.

Plain and simple. If a passenger misses out on a meal because the company deliberately short caters to save money then it is "management" that has to compensate them, not the crew with their salary or meals provided under their EBA entitlement.

Crew are sick and tired of constantly apologising for the tight ass management decision not to fully cater. I dont care in the slightest anymore. These decisions are made way above my head and i dont give a tinkers cuss if some fat ass misses out on a meal on a 4 hour flight. i might have done a 12 hour day and they are certainly not getting my meal and i am not shouting maccas in the terminal for them.

When a patient dies the doctor doesnt go to the funeral. Its called professional detachment. A few of my colleagues have got it down pat.

What i can do i give 1000%. What i cant do i follow company policy apologize and move on to the next sad sack who is waiting for their apology

[jungle juice]

i have seen many times cc going down the back with j-class meals covered with a tea towel and this is after the j-class meal has been severed
the rimless,I know what has been severed and it wasn't the meal service.

What makes you think they were J/C meals?

As Pegasus has said what you have seen are the CREW meals being taken down the back from where they are stored.

I have one question and that is

"what aircraft were you in and where were you seating when you saw the crew walking through with these meals after you missed out on your choise"?

By the way it's on domestic flights usually that you have a choice of a hot or cold meal.On international flights there are a number of hot meal choices.So normally you would not miss out on a hot meal although you might not get your choice of which hot meal.

[Short_Circuit]

I would gladly swap for a crew meal. The garbage being served in J/C at present in mostly pretty awfully (if you are luck enough to get one in the first place). :yuk:

[packrat]

Around 10 years ago Staff travel generated around $11million dollars in revenue.Since the cost of Staff Travel to the company is minimal the profit generated was generous.
If Staff Travel was better packaged it would generate more revenue.
As it is at present it is more cost effective for many staff to travel on carriers other than Qantas.
It is surprising that the bean counters havent realized that staff travel customers are going elsewhere and as a result Qantas is losing revenue.
These seats would otherwise be empty if not for staff and would therefore be revenue neutral.
As an aside there is very little food left in J and P class after the pirahna masquerading as customers have finished.J and P class could be quite easily renamed O class(O for Obese).
FF is actually an acronym for "farking fat"

[Boomerang_Butt]

Short Circuit, the hot crew meals are exactly the same as what the pax get on the flight. The only difference being, the crew often have to eat it while pax stand there staring at them like they've never seen anyone eat a meal before. (yes we are entitled to our breaks, although some pax react as though it's the most cheeky thing in the world!)

And before people start about crew ebing spoiled, we're only entitled to meals on certain flights.

back to the topic at hand. More often than not, it's cheaper to fly Dj confirmed than it is to use a staff ticket. And less hassle!

[Keg]

Whilst I agree that there are some ground staff who seem to get some sort of pleasure of watching staff travelers run for flights, the lack of service is occasionally apparent in the air. I've not staff traveled often but my gripes about service when I have traveled would mirror that of our normal customers. It varied between wonderfully attentive, supportive and excellent on some occasions to woefully inattentive and dismissive on others.

I think this is the thing that kills us time and again in competition with others carriers. We're simply not consistent.

As to the rest of the argument (ST as a profit centre, the crappy system, the fuel surcharges on what would be an empty seat, etc) I couldn't agree more. It's a seriously crap system and fixing these things would do wonders for engagement.

[packrat]

Crew meals are laden with trans fat,salt and processed carbs.
Every crew member who has been flying for more than 10 yrs should have a colonoscopy.
Where quarantine permits take you own food.

[Ka.Boom]

Whilever QF has off shore bases and has 5 payscales amongst its CC consistency will be elusive if not unobtainable.Just look at the problems with consistency the LHR base have.Hence a number of Sydney based crew being sent north and some LHR based crew being sent south.
For better treatment all round as a staff passenger never travel QF.
It aint worth the stress

[the rim]

well it seams like i have hit a nerve .....if what you and pegasus say is that they are crew meals then i will pull my head in .....but you would have to agree that just after the j-class meals have been served a crew member is walking aft with a tray of meals covered with a tea towel looks a bit like cc having j-class meals...btw this is on a 767 and i agree that if a crew meal is for you then you have the right to eat it i just hope all other cc have the same ethics.....tech crew meals stored up front but the cc meals on a 767 arnt they stored in the stowages next to the garbage openings in aft galley sorry cant remember the stowage number...just asking

[the rim]

hey packrat is that what the cc are calling it now ...a colonoscopy.....LOL sorry could not help that hope i will not get banned.... thought they would be getting one long before 10 years

[argusmoon]

The rim is a homophobe who makes a lot of assumptions.
Never assume anything.
What you think you see is not necessarily fact.
I choose a vegetarian crew meal and give it away to passengers who have missed out on a special meal.
I eat before I go to work and when I get off the aircraft.
I never eat on board.
As far as travel staff is concerned its rubbish.i havent used staff travel since the mid nineties.
Every job has its perks.Banks give employees favourable interest rates .Stores give staff discounts on merchandise.If you are a BMW employee you will receive a consideration when buying a vehicle.
It just seems that airline employees and their perks are an easy target.
Mr.Rim what do you do and what are your perks?
Probably company paid trips overseas,free stationary,a company phone account,an expense account,company car,salary sacrifing your kids private school fees and a reduction in the cost of your company's products
Very few customers in J or P class pay for their own airfares and yet have the temerity to complain about crew having a meal.
Every occupation allows for meal times and bathroom breaks.Many still allow for a smoko.
Cabin Crew it seems are not allowed any of these rights.
Thou shalt not covet a crew members meal.
Rim you need to get a life and stop worrying about what other people are receiving that you are not.
Get a job with an airline if it bothers you so much.
BTW "rim"has certain unpleasant and unsavoury connotations..and that is not an assumption..its fact
No...you havent hit a nerve...I am just intolerant and unaccepting of fools and their assertions and assumptions

[indamiddle]

as cc i guess my next colonoscopy is due 21 dec 2012.
'bout time fuel surcharges are dropped so staff travel with QF rather than EK etc.
apparently UK is bringing in a carbon tax on tickets to their fair shores. the longer the flight the higher the tax so it will be much cheaper to fly to mainline europe and use another ticket onto london... so long as mainland EU doesn't follow suit!

[the rim]

argusmoon if you care to read my post i did say that all workers had the right to meal breaks ....i do work for the red rat and have done for some time so i do speak with some knowledge of what goes on and have done a huge amount of travel both as duty and holiday....my advice to you is to lighten up a little and read these posts in the way they are meant ;)

[argusmoon]

Says it all really.
CC meals are stowed in a meal cart in the rear galley.
Nowhere near the garbage disposal.
It is agreed however that tidying up staff travel would improve morale.
Morale cant go any lower.Everyone except senior management is disengaged.
Jet* adds to the discontent as do offshore bases
AJ is not the one to fix it.Quite simply----he doesnt know how.

[lowerlobe]

I've not staff traveled often but my gripes about service when I have traveled would mirror that of our normal customers
Keg...Are all pilots of the same standard?

Do all pilots have the same personalities?

Has the company set up OS bases for the express purpose of lowering mainline pilots pay and conditions and thereby directly affecting the attitude of those pilots?

These questions are rhetorical because as a matter of fact I know mainline pilots that are so incensed with the behaviour of the company that they will not help out when asked by ops....

By your own admission you have not used staff travel often and yet you are telling us that your opinion of cabin crew mirrors that of the normal passenger.....How do you know what that is and how accurate that is especially considering that you have not flown as a passenger that often?

To suggest that Cabin Crew are the only people in the world who's attitude is affected by a company's behaviour and policy is more than a little biased and naive....

[lowerlobe]

well it seams like i have hit a nerve
Well,The Rim....If you are suggesting that there are Cabin Crew who would tell a passenger that their meal choice is not available simple so they could have it then...YES.........because that is a simply a fallacy.

If you see someone walking away from a galley with food it is because it is left over or it is a Crew meal.....

[the rim]

sorry to all for sidetracking this thread on staff travel all i did was to respond to a cc post with what i have seen and thanks to lowerlobe [and with a name like that must have been around for some time] for your input ....back to staff travel as i have said before if they fix the pricing and the rourts that some times are done at check in i think its ok you only have to travel on other opreators to see that.....remembering years ago travelling overseas and it was a nice comfy feeling to get back onto a qf aircraft and these were the days of only y-class travel yes no j-class only first and dont think any staff were allowed in there...maybe captains as they were the days when a captain was the ceo

[Keg]

Lowerlobe, don't take my comments so personally. The discussion here is about 'service'- particularly as it relates to the passengers.

I haven't staff traveled often but I travel relatively frequently either on duty travel or with my 'other' job. The service is mostly adequate to good, sometimes exceptional but when we 'miss' it's particularly bad.

I'm the first to admit that some techies provide average to poor 'service' to the remainder of the crew and passengers. Perhaps we are as inconsistent as the cabin crew service can sometimes be. The big difference is that our ability to impact adversely on the passenger experience is is somewhat limited when it's all going well.

[funbags]

Don't worry about lobey, Keg. He is a retired LHCC who should be playing lawn bowls but loves to get stuck into us. Just like the way I get stuck into Sydney based LHCC!

The service is ordinary and that is why we need more Lhr based and QCCA crew to take over from the over the hill Sydney crew who see the job as a free ticket to their next shopping destination, and not to provide a service to the customers. :{

Bring on the QCCA crew, bring em on.

[OCCR]

oh the troll known as funbags is back!

anyway bring on the Jetstar pilots~ had a few of them paxing the other day, what pleasant personalities and very agreeable chaps!

come on bring them on!! !

[Tempo]

Real mature stuff being posted here....

[Ka.Boom]

It was humming along nicely until a certain troll turned up.
Staff travel?
A misnomer if ever there was one

[73to91]

About 3 years ago my wife and kids were waiting for boarding passes (checked res before she left work, checked her priority, etc and knew she'd get on) when a girl and her male partner turned up at staff check-in (SYD Intnl), they were handed their boarding passes immediately. From what my wife and others heard - this girl was check-in staff. Anyway my wife contacted staff travel to raise her concern etc and they checked and informed her that she and the kids should have been on that flight based on priority and yes there was a girl from the terminal who got on before my wife (forgot to say, my family got on but in Y and not J). Staff travel told my wife to write and copy in the airport manager - after about 2 months she received a response from the airport manager with some bullsh1t piece about investigating and there was no issue with who got in correct order. So staff travel ... they knew what went on and yet then, did nothing:confused:

[RedTBar]

Rumor has it that funbags applied to Jetstar but he was knocked back because one of the requirements is that they want people with a personality.

The other rumor is that funbags is not a driver with any airline and is in the office and thats why he hates long haul cabin crew.The last time funbags made a post in a pilot thread was when pontius was the only pilot:E

To any cabin crew here if you want to be free of funbags all you have to do is post on a pilot thread and you'll never see funbags.

Back to the thread and I have always said that qantas should be renamed qantas empire airlines because of all the little empires that makes it up and staff travel is one of them.
When you go in there you have to know the answers to be able to know what questions to ask.It is a closed shop but if you know someone you are into the semi's without dropping a shot.

Many years ago I took the missus and our 12 month old son on a trip.The first leg the aircraft was that empty there were more crew than pax.When my wife boarded she was shaking her head because the staff check in had given her a seat in 'C' zone and the baby had a seat at the back of 'E' zone.
As well as that they kept her waiting until the last minute and she had to run for it and as she was doing that with a baby and associated baby bag etc..heard her name being called over the PA to go to the gate as the aircraft was awaiting departure.

The whole thing needs a wake up call but hell will freeze over before that happens.

[OCCR]

I agree totally, the whole system needs an overhaul.
the main problem you hear about day after day is that people are not boarded on their category.
BKK is the worse for this, they have their own system entirely.
If the "old woman" is on in HKG you can forget your priority, she has her own priorities!
An overhaul is also required.
Employees before companions or beneficiaries.
DOJ should also be important, its demoralising seeing the travel companion of an IT worker being loaded on before someone that has been working for the organisation for many years simply because they have a higher on load cat! which was part of their contract.

[Autobrakes4]

OCCR, onload category into economy, like, 42y, is based on date of joining. Its when you get to the upgrades that the IT workers get priority first up into the premium classes, usually first, because that's what they're entitled to. :rolleyes:

A 42y is a 42y, and if there are no upgradeable seats, the person with the longest time in the company will get a seat in economy first.

[twiggs]

Autobrakes4 is right, but DOJ is only relevant within each priority number, so the longest in the company with a 42Y will get on before a more junior 42Y, but not before a more junior 40Y.
Travel companions will only carry the employees priority if travelling with the employee on a 42Y, 47Y or 50Y, or by themselves on a 40Y or 41Y.

Upgrades are a different kettle of fish, and no beneficiary travelling by themselves should get an upgrade before any employee.
The reason is that the upgrade priorities for employees range from 10 to 17, and unaccompanied companions range from 20 to 27.

It's all on the staff travel website, info>policy>travel categories.

[Bad Hat Harry]

Staff travel has no consistency.It is all down to the person who is checking you in.Reports have been written and followed up but appear to get filed____in a wastebin.
The staff in LHR were the best.Not so sure now that Mr.Coll has left.
The procedure in NRT is also without peer.Good way to come home from Europe is thru' Tokyo.Fly JAL all the way.Forget QF.
Use Qantas Staff Travel to book on other carriers.You get treated as a human being rather than a nuisance

[OCCR]

yes that is true about the onload cat into yc....
not helpful when the only seats left are in jc or pc.

I have seen staff on 20 years service being left behind (no seats in YC) as their upgrade category was not as high as a "visitor" with one year!

If YC is full your LSL or Annual leave mean nothing. Someone who has a J15 or above will get in ahead of you into JC.

So if there is one seat left on the A/C and its in JC, a person with a higher upgrade who has been employed for one year gets it! than someone who is on a J17 20 years.

I called staff travel and they have confirmed this!

[funbags]

OCCR, the upgrade way of doing things has been in qf international like, forvever! They won't change it in a hurry.

This is why you will always get into economy before me, but you will have to wait till I'm on in J class, with my J13 priority before you do!!!!!!!!! :E

Like it or hate it their is a hierarchical ladder in most things in life. That's why bosses drive company supplied BMW's, and the workers buy their own Holdens. :*

[skybed]

is that on my recent travel to LHR , australien airports, lhr have their own rules, hgk, sin was ok. in lhr i even looked at the computer seeing the list of upgrades (which had me with the highest upload/upgrade category but still did not get the j/c seat (2 seats available). unfortunatly one has little options to do something about it.:ugh:

[twiggs]

Latest CSO allowing use of cabin crew jump seats at the captain's discretion for staff travellers should help a few more people get on when the flights are over the top.

[Boomerang_Butt]

I'm curious as to what you mean by the service to you when on staff travel is 'not good'. If by that you mean maybe having to wait for a meal or being given a tray & informed that crew will be back with mains shortly, then sorry that is how staff travel works.

Paying pax first, duty travellers next & 'R' pax last. I've been appalled at some of the tantrums I've witnessed from companions on recreational travel at either not getting their first choice or being asked to wait. I'm sorry, you're on a staff ticket and you expect me to give you a first choice & make a paying pax miss out? Think again mate, staff tickets are a privelige not a right and getting sulky with the crew when we run out of ice cream won't help matters.

Having said that 99% of our staff travellers are great, but it does cheese me a bit to see some IT guy's girlfriend's mum sitting up there while others in the company miss out on seats altogether. Biggest way to win over a large chunk of staff would be for AJ to fix the staff travel issue for the casual crew once and for all. I believe they are the only cabin crew anywhere who get no perks whatsoever on their own airline. Sure, they are contractors but they work alongside everyone else doing the same job. Even Easyjet crew get travel perks from day one!

I know some people reading think this is a petty thread but it's true, employees in other industries get plenty of perks yet a lot of the general public seem to think airline staff are spoilt, why, it's the same as anyone else who gets a company car, shares or paid business trips...

[flyergirl]

Ok, have just looked, which CSO is this? Dates what? Are you sure you don't mean FSO? Can't find it, and am very curious....thanks

[Autobrakes4]

We got a FSO on the new policy which gives Captains the right to give cabin crew assist seats away to staff travellers.

[flyergirl]

thanks autobrakes, found it...would be handy however if cabin crew were informed via CSO (maybe this is coming?), as most don't have home access to the intranet, or the initiative to look it up like I did :ok: hehe . Glad someone is showing some sense...good to hear. I would like to think we can all help each other.....

[teresa green]

A little tip folks, THAT WORKS! try to travel with your laptop, when facing the nazi's at the desk ,waiting, waiting, waiting to get on, have laptop open on top of trolley, examine laptop with great concentration, THEY KNOW what you are looking at, exactly the same thing they are looking at, available seats, they also know that when there is at least 30 seats available, no football team is about to materialize, and there is no excuse to give you 5 mins to board, try it. After a very stressful wait in SIN, I tried it, after advice from a retired LAME who was also hoping to get to LHR and it worked. Never travelled without it after that and has never let me down. It also clarifies if there really is no seats, as happens every so often, and you don't go away to try tomorrow, feeling a little cheated, and not too sure if they were simply being vindictive.

[whatever6719]

Teresa
Could you possible divulge which site would be able to give such detailed info on loads, especially so close to departure time?
Im going away soon and would love to be able to check out my flights.
Cheers

[Autobrakes4]

Having had a reread of the FSO, it seems that the assist jumpseat is for use only by operating aircrew with accompanying travel beneficiaries. So operating tech crew or cabin crew who have beneficiaries on the trip with them. Not every staff member who is listed on the flight?

Better than nothing I guess.

[ampclamp]

My recent experience is that the staff travel site does not reflect the reality.
Unless you have the real thing you are still behind the 8 ball.
On my recent trip, a nice young fellow at check in swung the screen around and showed me exactly where I was in relation to other staff.1st time ever.
There was a balls up with seat allocation but thats another story.Cant believe they make full payers queue up for half an hour just to drop their bags.Its constant crisis management with the soon to depart flts being called to the front of the queue.

[ampclamp]

yep , I tried for a jump seat recently and was told not for rec travel.
(I'm a LAME). Another way to get somewhere gone, sadly...:(
Got me out of jail a few times.

[Autobrakes4]

ampclamp, you're talking about something else. Jumpseats on the flight deck are now only for duty travel tickets or staff travelling to/from a duty on staff travel tickets. That is what you are referring to. This is a few months old.

The one I'm on about is a new directive regarding the use of assist cabin crew seats, in the cabin. Used only by accompanied travel beneficiaries of operating crew. This is a few days old!

[indamiddle]

guessing these are the spare seat(s) at doors 3 on a 747. being at a door exit does the staff travel beneficiary have to aged 15 or older? is this mentioned anywhere?
my reading of the CSO regarding the f/deck jump seats was for persons traveling for 'operational' reasons

[Boomerang_Butt]

If I read it correctly, operation reasons can include commuting to start a duty on the same day, is that right?

With regard to cabin assist seats... would the primary crewmember have to agree? I'm not sure I'd be entirely comfortable with Joe Blogg from IT's mum sittting next to me at a door, I'd much prefer the other staff travellers who may be cabin crew or pilots too have that seat... at least they know how to operate a door. Does the new policy go into such detail? Suppose if the captain has to approve it s/he would be asking those questions anyway...

PS Indamiddle I would sayy yes they would have to meet exit row criteria just like anyone else...

Aside from the 747 there's also an assist seat on the 738, and some 767s have one midcabin. Now there's less crew on the a330 there'd be one or two there as well...

[Autobrakes4]

boomerang, the I.T guys mum wouldn't be sitting in the assist jumpseat.

As per the FSO, the assist cabin crew jumpseat is for use only by travelling beneficiaries of the crew operating on that flight. For eg the operating Captain's wife or an operating flight attendants boyfriend.

The FSO states they have to meet exit row criteria.

737's not approved.

[Boomerang_Butt]

Auto, thanks. We don't get to see FSOs. Probably will be one for the cabin crew if there isn't already... haven't seen it yet.

Ok so it might not be the IT guy's mum but it's someone's mum or boyfriend or whatever... my question is, if we're not allowed to let pax sit in crew seats during the flight, how come it's now ok for non-crew to use them to travel? Not trying to stir just asking a genuine curious question. I would suppose there'd be a very thorough briefing to the person going to occupy the seat?

[twiggs]

Boomerang Butt,
I have read the CSO/FSO and a requirement is that the person is briefed by the crew.
Also, the main reason we don't allow pax to sit on jumpseats during flight is so that we have somewhere to sit for turbulence etc.
Since the beneficiaries will be using spare jump seats, we will still have our own jump seat available.

Prior to this new policy, tech crew had no way to guarantee a seat for their companions as the flight deck is no longer available and crew rest seats are given away at the discretion of the cabin crew.

[jungle juice]

twiggs,
This is good news if you are desperate to get on a flight but this thread is about the lack of transparency and accountability in staff travel.

[triadic]

Hey.... you get what you pay for... !

Sure, like any system, it could be better, but it works. In over 20 yrs I don't believe I have missed out on more than 2 or 3 flights that I was aiming for. You just have to plan ahead, avoid school holidays, be flexible and have a plan B !

:ok::ok:

[avion346]

The introduction of FBT effectively removed most of the Staff Travel profit to the Airline.

The new Altea system does not show the Staff members start date, so it is not possible, as it was with QUBE to see all the information.

EG QUBE would show 42YJ1785
Altea only shows 42YJ17

So the agent relies on the "system" getting it right!

OCCR re onload/upgrade, if there is only one seat left on the Aircraft in J class, and both pax have an entitlement to J class, then the pax with the higher onload gets on, and into J
So if you had 2 pax, one with a 40YJ17 the other a 42YJ13, and one JCL seat left at flight close,the higher 40Y onload is the only one to get on, then the regrade comes into it, and as they are entitled to Jcl they get the seat!
If however that pax was 40YY,then the 42Y pax gets on.

Bear in mind the QF Domestic and International systems are different,
with Domestic all staff can purchase upgradeable tkts and the order of upgrade is determined by length of service only.
International upgrade is determined by position in the company.

Domestic Upgrade categories were adjusted some time back to ensure beneficiaries did not get upgrades ahead of current staff.

The current Jetstar onload system allows for beneficaries to be onloaded before actual JQ or QF staff if they got in the que first!

[lowerlobe]

Hey...you get what you pay for... !
triadic....But it is part of your employment and not a privilege as some say here...so it's Hey not what you pay for but what you are supplied with.....

Certainly,planning helps a lot but it's all well and good to say avoid certain times and have a plan 'B' but what happens when you have children at school age ?

We all understand that school holidays are peak times when the airlines are busiest but sometimes these are unavoidable....

Even during slow times the problems you encounter increase on an exponential basis when you have one other person let alone children travelling....

As Jungle Juice said this is an area that needs a certain amount of transparency and that does not exist now or at any stage that I'm aware of.

In fact I have found having a good travel agent a godsend.I managed a far better holiday to the states and had confirmed seats for only $15 more than the staff standby seats prices on domestic flights within the US.I have found that staff travel is best used on Long Haul flights and leave the rest to a good travel agent or the internet....

[Jet-A-One]

I doubt any changes to staff travel will include upgrade priority. These are part of EBAs and employment contracts.

ie. There's no way us engineers are giving up our J14

In my experience on tight flights it's your upgrade priority that gets you on the aircraft. The best onload is useless without a good upgrade priority when economy is overbooked and the only available seats are up the front.

[teresa green]

Whatever, you need to get into flight schedules on QF staff travel. Ampclamp, it should be fairly close to seats available. The system might show full, but often blows out about 24 hrs before flight due to travel agents putting their alloted seats back into the system. Very few A/C leave completely full, though of course it happens, especially if the previous A/C on that sector becomes U/S. What pis3es me off though as probably does most of you, is even though they know there are seats available, they leave it until 20 mins or so before ETD, which is distressing to say the least for staff travelling with elderly parents or small children and for what reason? As I said before its not like a football team is about to materialize demanding seats, its almost like some sort of water torture that QF has defined over the years (and no it has not got any better) from one that has become a expert at trying to understand and beat staff travel at its own game. You are better off paying the money on the LCC's but JQ is normally a safe bet, Star Class, which I might add is very pleasant, but try the laptop, it does make a difference, they are not quite sure how to deal with it when they see you on it, but know they could get into trouble themselves if they send a A/C off with obvious seats available, (which they have done over the years on more than one occasion) infact I was working on one that left the arm, with 15 seats available out of HAR leaving staff to stay another week as it was a weekly service, but a dilligent FSD/CSM informed the Skipper who went straight back onto the arm and demanded that staff be loaded, and had the ground staff running around like blue arsed flies trying to round them up, I have never forgotten their gratitude as they boarded, some were in tears, the stress too much. ( The reason for such a full A/C was the scheduled A/C went U/S in PER, and QF only had 15 747's at that stage so the service was late). Happy travelling.

[ampclamp]

Hi TG, I guess anything is worth a go.Like to have seen the situation you described , lol.

Not sure if its improved but the new BKK airport is a balls up.Seen some shockers done there with staffies ( not to mention full payers! )
QF, BA etc I hear sacked a lot of their more highly paid (experienced) gnd staff when the move from don muang took place and the kids who took their place just didnt get it.Nothing left on time, staff were put thru the mill not so much on purpose but inexperience. couples seperated in different classes even when seats were available .Minors seperated from their parents.Hand ball to the cabin crew to beg others to change seats.Again the CC did a great pro job.:D

And the killer of being hung out to dry until nearly pushback for no good reason while they *&^% around endlessly .I've never had a good experience going thru the new BKK port.Lovely peole but lacking training experience initiative? I dont know what but its been pain and suffering.

[C441]

Experience is not a valuable commodity these days. Airports, as with most areas of the organisation have found that experience is too expensive.:rolleyes:

[Angle of Attack]

TG,
Sorry but Availability on the site usually reflects the reality but usually does not! Flight Schedules on Staff Travel are as useful as a screen door on a submarine! Unless you know the realities of the sector you basically have no idea! Although I agree with your technique it is the best way to go!

[rammel]

I haven't had too much trouble in BKK at the new airport, even got my upgrade when I checked in once. I've rarely had to wait too long there, if there are seats they seem to put you on. If the flight is full and you have a backup BA ticket and are listed, ask about BA. Once I was not going to get my upgrade on QF but they could give me ecy. I asked about BA and they said they could put me on straight away, so I took BA. Also the refund of the QF ticket is more than the refund for the BA one.

[Transition Layer]

I also flew through BKK recently on Staff Travel and found the check-in staff pretty good. They just needed a bit of reminding that it was 45 mins to departure and that the flight is probably closed at that stage.

It's nice to know you can approach them in a friendly way and make an enquiry without your head being ripped off, ala Sydney.

I recently saw approx 50 staff at the counter trying to get out of Sydney one afternoon on the QF5/31/1 with one check-in bloke doing his best not to make eye contact with anyone. Went down to BA and got on within about 10 mins thanks to some helpful staff. Cheaper than QF and without the stress of waiting til the death.

[Long Bay Mauler]

Just searching the Staff Travel website,and I am finding it hard to get any information about Long Service trips.Anybody else have trouble finding relevant info?

Anyone have any info on where I could access info on such things that staff are entitled to on their 10,15,20,25,etc?

[sidelineeyes]

Try QPM Vol 2, it spells out most conditions of employment.

[teresa green]

Angle, got my info from a neighbour, who is a QF sales agent. She reckons staff travel availability is fairly close, but also says that many A/C have up to 10% noshow, but some are overbooked, especially SIN/LHR (a staff travellers nightmare). Without a doubt I have found if you are on a JQ route, go Starclass, seldom full, and a pleasant service (where do they get the best meat pies I have ever eaten?) seriously. I guess the best advice is buy backup tickets and go for the refund if not used, (not easy if you have 4 kids) anyway, happy travelling.

[ampclamp]

Thanks to those for the updates on BKK.Seems to have improved.

[whatever6719]

Bug a lugs, I just made a Long Service Leave booking the other day actually. Had to spend about 30 minute waiting for the call to get through to someone tho!!
Anyway, if you go to the staff travel website and then go to the Employee tab, look for the "My Benefits" tab and that will show you what you are entitled to
Quite handy as it shows what stages you have owed to you, High Priority trips, etc etc
Hope this helps

[High Class Queen]

Just thought I would clarify the upgrades for staff travel/duty travel.

I have spoken to QF groundstaff about this and ever since they got that new checkin system the groundstaff are unable to see everyones seniority numbers and start dates and that the computer randomly assigns upgrades to whoever. One day I was operating and had a few QF Crew paxing but were downgraded to economy as they were informed that there was no seats available in Business.

Then in the final minutes of boarding a JQ Crew turned up and had been seated in Business Class! After clarifying with G/S they said they were unable to see the QF Crews seniority numbers!

[cunninglinguist]

Then in the final minutes of boarding a JQ Crew turned up
Bluddy Jet* scum :E

High class, I take it the QF crew were CC, as QF tech crew are pos space when d/heading ?
If the Jet* crew was Tech, then start date is irrelavent due to QFs rank system ( Jet* tech crew have higher upgrade priority than QF CC ) also if the Jet* crew was positioning for duty they would have a higher upgrade code too. ( although from memory, Jet* CC have no upgrade when d/heading )
Apart from all that there is always a possibility that the Jet* crew had longer years of service.
Cheers

[uz32]

Sorry Cunning, not quite right. Shorthaul CC (duty travel) have higher upgrade priority than most staff, if not all.

[kotoyebe]

ever since they got that new checkin system the groundstaff are unable to see everyones seniority numbers and start dates

Wrong. They are either too lazy, or don't know how to look it up. It's not as obvious as it was in Qube, but easy to find. They probably can't find the "seniority number" because there is no such thing. I assume you mean onload category.

the computer randomly assigns upgrades to whoever.

Wrong. And rubbish. The system uses upgrade categories and start dates to determine upgrades. On a recent staff travel leisure trip of mine, the system worked accurately.

[OCCR]

staff travel leisure trip of mine, the system worked accurately.

that's all we want

[ditzyboy]

Wrong. And rubbish. The system uses upgrade categories and start dates to determine upgrades.

Yes. However duty travel tickets for CC (SH at least) DO NOT include start dates. They are omitted from the booking (there is zeros in the place of the start date). I do not know who is responsible for putting them in their, or the systems involved. But I can confirm that the dates are not present in the onload information in DUTY travel bookings for SH CC since the new system came into play.

Our managers say it is due to IT issues.

Re. the paxing JQ crew in J/C and SH in Y/C I can offer the following. Were the SH CC booked onto the flight at the last minute (or crewing were late making the booking)? If booked by crewing after -15 then your regrade is not able to be actioned as the system has already completed this process.

Last week we had 27 spare seats in J/C. A paxing FA was allocated Y/C as crewing created her booking after the regrades had been finalised (this is an automatic process). Ground staff were 'unable' (their words) to process a regrade as that 'part' of the system had closed.

As another example, the system does not allow bag tags to be printed after -30. Nor will it let pax eligible for regrade board before the regardes have been actioned at -15. This is annoying if you want to get onboard to stow your bags, knowing you won't get J/C.

[avion346]

Quote:

Wrong. They are either too lazy, or don't know how to look it up. It's not as obvious as it was in Qube, but easy to find. They probably can't find the "seniority number" because there is no such thing. I assume you mean onload category.

Kotoyebe, It is not easy to find the Staff members year of joining.
In order to do so you need to look at each individual Customer Record or retrieve their booking to access the year of joining.
Not easy, and very rarely would Checkin Staff have time to do so.

With Qube each passenger name would show with Onload,Upgrade Category and year of joining EG: 50YJ1887
Altea list only shows 50YJ18

So one must assume the system has it in the right order.

I agree with you,it certainly does not "randomly assign upgrades", but without easy access to year of joining info,it is impossible to know if the system gets it right!

[PPRuNeUser0198]

The numbers on the Staff Travel website are fictitious and is not true availability. These numbers are linked into the reservations system and incorporate oversale percentages. The same availability any travel agent could see in their CRS.

In addition, the 'Staff Listed' values do not include staff confirmed in Y class (E) class when traveling on 42Y status. If E is available and the individual is confirmed, they are removed from this field.

My recent trips internationally went very smooth in and out of AUS with the upgrade confirmed at time of check-in (pre-assigned by Altea and as per my expectation based on my priority and seats left).

One additional 'catch out' for staff are Frequent Flyers. These customers can still be confirmed in U class up to 6 hours prior to departure. So what may appear as quality availability when viewed can rapidly deteriorate by the time you get to check-in (another feature of the droid in Altea; auto allocation).

[ditzyboy]

We, as cabin crew, are yet to receive a CSO (if we are to get one at all?) relating to the accompanied beneficiaries using spare assist jumpseats.

My question is will these people be required to remain there during the flight? Is anything relevant stipulated in the FSO?

Are these staff travellers counted in the total pax figure?

The domestic config 763-GEs (except OGV) have two seats which cannot be sold with the standard CC compliment of 7. With 7 CC the max pax load is 252 (of the 254 seats). Can these seats be used in addition to the OWA jumpseat?

Many domestic flight attendants believe these unsaleable seats are for turbulence purposes (as only two jumpseats are near the galley), which is untrue.

[roamingwolf]

People like myself and funbags will be sure not to bother reading it!
Is that a promise transition?
cause it hasn't stopped you or your other half posting in cabin crew threads before.

[Transition Layer]

cause it hasn't stopped you or your other half posting in cabin crew threads before.

Why would my "other half" be on PPrune? Very odd statement to make...I post in some cabin crew stuff because I'm interested in matters concerning my workplace, which we all share.

Anyway, back to Staff Travel matters.

[Maloo]

Hi all,

I'm looking at using Jetstar for international staff travel soon. Are there any tricks to it or anything I should be aware of that could catch me out? I may also be using it domestically within New Zealand. Any tips would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Maloo

[PPRuNeUser0198]

If you are upgradable to Star (or J in QF), make sure you have your benefits page printed and with you to demonstrate eligability.

Both international and domestic are on a first come, first served basis for:


Upgrade in INT; and
Onload on INT/DOM.

[Maloo]

Thanks T-Vasis,

No I'm not upgradeable internationally yet. Which is bollocks in itself.

Do I have to list because it isn't a Qantas flight or is the listing automatic because it is part of the group?

[KrispyKreme]

Maloo, mate all the info is online on the Qantas Staff Travel website. You can buy the JQ ticket online at the staff travel website.. just get there early to check in so you are first the list on the flight your after, as it is first in priority system

[PPRuNeUser0198]

You don't list. Once you make the booking, it will be in the system. You just need to 'register' yourself through the check-in process. If the loads are good, they will process you then and there. If dicey, you will be asked to come back later, but recorded on the list for on-load priority.

You can book on-line via the staff travel website, or via the commercial call centre.

[Ken Borough]

No I'm not upgradeable internationally yet. Which is bollocks in itself.

How bloody pretentious and petulant is this 24 year old? :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[ditch handle]

You've not heard of generation, "why?".

[PPRuNeUser0198]

Ditch Handle - good post :ok:

I rode down the back for 6 years before I was allowed to turn left. Be humble with Y until such time you earn the pointy end.

I also look at it this way, if everybody got J or P from the onset, then no one would ever 'get on' as there would never be any seats available up the front (or upstairs on the Queen and Beluga).

[Pedota]

I’ve been biting my tongue on this one . . . but if you owned the airline do you think you would derive more future benefit from upgrading a fare paying passenger and delighting them to the point they automatically come back next time they are going to travel (and tell all their mates about it) OR upgrade staff and extended family who already travelling on a heavily subsidised ticket?

And further, another argument I saw a little while ago was ‘we are only using unused seats’. Not true! Are you aware that most customers actually value not having anyone next to them? The presence of someone (staff and extended family included) devalues the offering for the full fare paying punter, especially those who pay premium fares. Sure they could pay for two tickets . . . or maybe they too would be willing the pay ‘staff rates’ to keep the seat free?

But I am not going to get anywhere this . . . subsidised staff and extended family travel benefits are clearly a negotiated and accepted practice (and cost) of ‘full service’ airlines and nothing will change anytime soon. I know many members of the community would love to have a similar scheme and I genuinely wish everyone well in maintaining these fringe benefits because they are amazing – so long as there are enough customers willing to subsidise them!

Best to all

Cheers

Pedota

[QF411]

Does anyone know what dates are best (around may/june/july) to travel to london and back on QF in terms of loads?

[qfguy]

Since it's August i think you missed the boat mate!

If you mean in general then the best way to get to LHR on staff travel over those months would be to buy a full fare ticket!

Unless you have a good priority then its a struggle but prob BKK (QF1/2) is your best of a very bad bunch.

[Jet-A-One]

Pedota-

It's very obvious you have no idea about airline operations or the associated economics.

[PPRuNeUser0198]

They are all tough periods outbound due to the summer season. For years I have successfully travelled to Europe via Japan. Out of Narita there are 5 departures within 5 hours (Virgin, Japan Airlines, Air Nippon and BA) - all 744's and 345, all with plenty of capacity. This might be a longer journey then via SIN/BKK etc, but you always get to LON without issues, and on occasion, BA has upgraded staff ex NRT to LON in WTP.

SIN/BKK are the premium routes for QF/BA so they are always the toughest. I would rate HKG to LON as number 1 if you are choosing to go via this region. The only bonus ex SIN is you can go to FRA/CDG/HKG/LON on QF/BA/AF/CX to get to LHR, but you are also competing with a great deal more staff and commercials (and our favourite - freight).

[Pedota]

Hi Jet-A-One

Thanks for your response.

And you are quite correct in pointing out that there are many more who know a lot more about ‘airline operations’ and the ‘associated economics’ than me.

But may I ask what is ‘operationally or economically’ sound about upgrading already heavily subsidised staff and extended family tickets instead of offering those seats to full fare paying customers? Are the customers not the ones who are paying for the subsidised seats in the first place?

Please correct me if I am wrong . . . on any grounds.

Cheers

Pedota

[dodgybrothers]

wind up alert

[Crew rest.]

I thought it a fair question. Let's hear the response.

:O

[pcx]

Yes. Me too actually. Surely the paying customers deserve some consideration.

[twiggs]

The paying customers do get their upgrades ahead of staff IF they are eligible.
As a paying customer, I would not be too happy if I had paid for an upgrade wth points or cash and then had another paying customer sitting next to me that was upgraded for no reason other than to fill a spare seat.

[Jet-A-One]

Hi Pedota,

I can't deny that staff travel is a benefit. But I can assure you it is not all it's cracked up to be by those that don't understand it.

Staff travel is "space available". Meaning, if there isn't a seat available you wait for the next flight which may be anything between a half hour to a week later. This means that trips usually can't be planned until the day before travel in order to pick a flight with spare seats. Even then you may pick a flight with 20 spare seats only to find out 15 minutes before departure that, due to additional freight, you miss out.

Staff travelers also pay, on top of all applicable taxes and fuel surcharges, a percentage of the FULL FARE which is usually significantly higher than the DISCOUNTED FARE that most punters pay these days. DOUBLE this if you want an upgrade... subject to availability. This is allot more than nothing, which is what the airline gets if they upgrade pax.

As for the economics. Have a think about this. If you were driving from Sydney to Perth in 50 seat bus with 49 people on board how much more do you think it would cost you to carry that extra passenger? By the way you only have to feed him if there's something left after everyone else has been served.

If it makes economic sense to you to leave seats empty for the the comfort of commercial pax, as you suggest, then I want some of what your smoking...

Where you get the idea that commercial pax "subsidise" staff travelers is beyond me...

regards, JA1

[Tankengine]

Bank workers get cheaper mortgages,
KFC worker get cheap chicken,
etc
etc
Many airline employees earn less than they would outside but do it for the airfares. [esp those with family both here and OS.]
Remember the staff are always on standby for whatever seats are left!:hmm:

[cart_elevator]

Hi Pedota

Firstly,I guess your comments around full fare paying customers 'valuing spare seats next to them' is correct,however they have only paid for one seat,and any customer who is disapointed that the seat next to them is occupied (whether it be by a staff traveller or anyone else) is out of touch with their expectations of exactly what they have paid for.Unless the flight is full,any customer can pay for a spare seat next to them if that is what they would like to expect.And that's not being rude,it's just reality.

Secondly,full fare customers do not in any way subsidise staff travellers,the staff traveller is indeed paying to sit in an empty seat,and if that seat is not empty they simply do not get on.Staff also have to pay to have an upgradeable ticket,and cannot get upgraded unless they pay the additional fare.Also you have to do 7 years service with QF to be able to pay for the upgrade and only pilots and executive managment can pay for a first class upgrade (i think,i know I certainly cant!).

Thirdly,from a business point of view I would suggest that having loyal staff (through incentives such as decent staff travel schemes) in turn increases the satisfaction (and loyalty) of customers.If I owned a business which was in the service industry,I would want my staff as happy and engaged as practical (within reason),as I know this has a positive flow on effect to the service levels the customers receive.Just as having disengaged staff has a negative effect on the service levels customers receive.Although yes QF staff do get cheaper airfares for empty seats I think the original message here was that as some other airlines staff appear to get a 'better' staff travel system and the employee engagement could be increased at QF by matching what their industry peers receive,at minimal cost to the business.

Finally,also from a business point of view upgrading 'Aunt Doris on her way to see the homeland before she drops of the rock' ahead of staff would
a) not have any economic impact to the business and
b) create a possibly undeliverable expectation for next time Aunt Doris (or those she has spoken to) flies
c) would negate the above positive impact for staff engagement in point 3.
Upgrading commercially important customers such as top level frequent flyers can have a positive impact to the business which is why QF already does this on a regular basis.

It is a small industry,and having friends who work for other airlines I see that at QF the staff travel system does not seem as good as some of my friends get.

We are constantly told through memos that QF wants to be the worlds best airline.Why not have the worlds best staff travel service to go with it?;)
It would do wonders for staff engagement,which is badly needed at the moment.:{

[Maloo]

KrispyKreme and T-Vasis - Thank you very much for the info. I have read the online information but I just didn't want to get caught out so again thanks.


Ken Borough and Ditch Handle - I don't make many posts on here but when I do I am asking genuine questions or making genuine comments. I don't sit on here slagging other people. I haven't just lucked into this job either. I payed for my own licence and I have been through crap so don't assume I am a pretentious impatient brat. I am thankful to have a job at this time of the industry and I am even more thankful for the benefits that we get. I was merely referring to the fact that Mainline second officers (I believe) get international upgrades and 18 year old sons and daughters of captains get upgrades even when they are not employees but I as a Qlink FO don't get it.

Cheers,

Maloo

[kotoyebe]

But may I ask what is ‘operationally or economically’ sound about upgrading already heavily subsidised staff and extended family tickets instead of offering those seats to full fare paying customers?

Ummm, because it negates the requirement for the full fare paying customer to actually fully pay for the product. You heard about the "yield" probems with airlines at the moment? You don't think some customers have cottoned on to the fact that they can presently buy a $1000 fare to LAX, and they'll get upgraded anyway?

You've never heard of "overbooking". Where do you think economy class oversales go when there are seats left up front? That's right, we put staff into business class and leave the regular customers behind...


Wind up alert indeed.

[Keg]

....and only pilots.... can pay for a first class upgrade

Within the pilot ranks it's only captains that can get the first class upgrade. F/Os and S/Os are restricted to J class upgrades.

[newsensation]

and that only applies to Mainline Captains....

[airtags]

Maloo, your point is 100% relevant. However.......it gets easier when you take staff travel for what it is - a totally inequitable, illogical system that arrogantly abuses all but those at the top of the seniority pecking order.

It's not even a commercially sound concept in terms of caash flow in that you can book and pay for your ticket at the first opportunity only to be gazumped by someone who decided to go at the last minute.

As for the sometimes snotty upthemselves 19 year old son/daughter Y gen travelling unaccompanied & geting the first seat while people who actually do the work are shoved elsewhere down the back - oh that's if they can get on at all..........grrrrrrrrrrrr.........

I do feel for the cabin crew though I think a lot of them are ripped off more the F/O's & S/O's - especially the newer ones that work their backsides off for next to nothing and they can't even experience their own product - jeeez even the clean up staff in Gordon Ramsey's & Neil Perry's Kitchens get to experience their own offering.

I was told the other week that some of the CC had to pax to LAX in the rear middle seat of a chokkas economy cabin, then only have reduced rest and then work the return sector.

That's a hard gig in itself, but I was amazed to be told that while these CC suffered, up in first was the princess y gen daughter of one of our senior collegues who (according to the CC) was a total demanding bitch dropping daddy's name and very senior status at every opportunity... ....... that's the system - hardly the model of equity and care.

Personally, staff travel causes more grief and division than it's worth. It's pending overhaul cannot come soon enough.

AT

cue: outrage responses from the precious few

[capt.cynical]

If you think staff travel is tough as an "employee", try it as a "retiree". :{:yuk:

[teresa green]

Doesn't it give one the sh$ts Capt Cynical, when you have been flogging the things around the sky for nigh on 49 years, to be told be some indifferent 21 yr old " yer well, yer might get on, but then............ a trip in my tinny looks more attractive every day.

[PPRuNeUser0198]

I was told the other week that some of the CC had to pax to LAX in the rear middle seat of a chokkas economy cabin

Cabin crew on paxing duty are firm J upgradable to P, so I am unsure as to how they were down the back?

[caneworm]

always reckoned this would be a great job if it wasn't for those pesky passengers

[ditch handle]

QUOTE-

"Cabin crew on paxing duty are confirmed J upgradable to P, so I am unsure as to how they were down the back?"

______________

They were down the back because cabin crew on duty travel are confirmed Y/C upgradable to J/C, P/C.

CSMs are supposed to be firm J/C but even so that doesn't guarantee they won't experience the delights of seat 69F.

[PPRuNeUser0198]

Ditch - I understood that domestically = firm Y, upgradable to J and internationally, firm J, upgradable to P?

[ditch handle]

We wish. Y/C firm [upgradable] network wide.

[skybed]

is correct. also no such luxuries as CPT's/FO's/SO's going to the lounge etc.
:{

[ditch handle]

No Need. We all got to visit one during initial training.......

[PPRuNeUser0198]

I think it is certainly appropriate that crew on duty travel do not have lounge access. Part of the benefit to have club access is to escape the crowds and noise. Having crew in lounges just adds to congestion, crowds, noise etc.

Ditch - looking in the system I can see a number of tech crew paxing on firm J (D) class, so I am perplexed by the firm Y network-wide comment...

[ditch handle]

Sorry I thought I was being clear, or maybe you are taking the piss??

Only cabin crew Y/C firm.

[Pedota]

Jet-A-One & Cart Elevator

Many thanks for your responses. I have been away for a few days and am just getting back to this thread.

In order of arrival – Jet-A-One . . . I do indeed appreciate the 50th passenger metaphor on a 50 passenger bus. There would be a very small marginal cost of carrying the extra passenger. However, the question remains how that ‘additional benefit’ should be attributed across the entire passenger group. Using your reasoning, one person should derive all the benefit.

With modern yield management algorithms and management systems these things are pretty much predictable . . . there is sufficient knowledge of the elasticity of supply/demand such that aircraft (or theatres, concert halls, etc) can be filled with highest possible yield. To charge some people the maximum possible and ‘give away’ very low yielding products/services/seats to others is one way to manage the issue, but there are others.

Secondly, to Cart Elevator’s third point . . . having a loyal staff (through incentives such as decent staff travel schemes) does in turn increase the satisfaction (and loyalty) of customers is valid. It is an excellent point . . . although I would argue that the staff (and extended family) benefits already represent an exceptional incentive.

But to your second point about full fare paying customers subsidising the staff travel scheme. I ask if someone to buy a product or service at 10% of the advertised price (plus taxes and charges) on the assumption that it is ‘at cost’, then it presumes the offering company is making somewhere around a 90% margin. My reading of QF’s annual reports (and year to date) is that EBIT is nowhere these numbers.

And to your first point . . . it is of course a folly that customers should expect the seat beside them should remain vacant. That would be unreasonable as you should only expect what you pay for.

And yet . . . this all assumes that customers do not notice the ‘on board’ shenanigans of what ‘unofficially’ goes on once everyone is on the aircraft – the flash of the staff card, the nod/wink, late shuffling of seats such that ‘persons unknown’ are mysteriously provided with additional benefits. For example, you wouldn’t expect all the J passengers to be ‘crammed’ together (albeit in their very expensive and luxurious $6,000 seats) so that mysterious others have the benefit of a lots of space, would you?

Is this a wind up . . . I can assure you it is definitely not. But am I asking that ‘full service’ airlines deliver against their purported value proposition – yes, because it is is all our interests.

To both Jet-A-One and Cart Elevator, I rather liked Caneworm’s comment “always reckoned this would be a great job if it wasn't for those pesky passengers” – and have you ever thought about the real meaning behind the rather amusing term of “self loading freight”?

Happy to continue the conversation.

Best to all

Cheers

Pedota

[capt.cynical]

T.G.

I renewed my passport in March, I dont know why as I have not left the country since I retired in 03.:ugh:

I did it just in case I have to attend a funeral :( or more hopefully a wedding or christening OS sometime in the next 10 years. :)

Keep fishing in gods own country. :D

Meanwhile I will keep in digging holes in the golf course. :{

[capt.cynical]

T-vasis that was not my post.:)

[Wonderworld]

The rotten thing is JQ positioning crew get a higher upg category than QF staff on leisure travel.

That really pi$$es me right off! :*

[lowerlobe]

But to your second point about full fare paying customers subsidising the staff travel scheme. I ask if someone to buy a product or service at 10% of the advertised price (plus taxes and charges) on the assumption that it is ‘at cost’, then it presumes the offering company is making somewhere around a 90% margin. My reading of QF’s annual reports (and year to date) is that EBIT is nowhere these numbers.
Pedota that with all respect is rubbish....Staff travel is simply a benefit to staff using a spare seat...IF AVAILABLE.

The cost to staff is a figure arrived at by the company for various reasons known only to themselves and is not indicative of the cost of operating the airline.We pay the same additional taxes that any pax pays.

The number of times I was bumped off a flight minutes before departure because the 'full' paying pax has just turned up with some sob story was amazing even though you as a pax have a certain requirement to be on time....That is over a 30 year time period.The seat we are given....if lucky....is just a spare seat not a confirmed one.

This is no different than any business giving their staff some tangible benefit for their employment and as a tool to increase staff morale.

There is also the benefit to the business of paying lower wages in return for this 'benefit'.
And to your first point . . . it is of course a folly that customers should expect the seat beside them should remain vacant. That would be unreasonable as you should only expect what you pay for.
Glad you agree.....the number of times I have seen pax act as if the aircraft was their own personal form of transport was incredible...
And yet . . . this all assumes that customers do not notice the ‘on board’ shenanigans of what ‘unofficially’ goes on once everyone is on the aircraft – the flash of the staff card, the nod/wink, late shuffling of seats such that ‘persons unknown’ are mysteriously provided with additional benefits. For example, you wouldn’t expect all the J passengers to be ‘crammed’ together (albeit in their very expensive and luxurious $6,000 seats) so that mysterious others have the benefit of a lots of space, would you?
There are a lot of people who love a conspiracy isn't there?

All I can say is Pedota...you have a very fertile imagination...it sounds to me another example of simple jealousy in that some people cannot stand the thought of others receiving something they are not....

[lowerlobe]

T-Vasis...I don't know where you work but...

Ditch is right and Cabin Crew are only Y/C firm.....

I wish I had a dollar the number of times myself and the rest of the cabin crew paxed in Y/C....

[PPRuNeUser0198]

The rotten thing is JQ positioning crew get a higher upg category than QF staff on leisure travel.

Ummmm, well they are on duty travel mate, so they should be getting a higher priority then leisure travel - they're operating aeroplanes...

[PPRuNeUser0198]

Thanks Ditch/Lowerlobe - I have never noticed the cabin crew, only tech.

Typical - drivers always thinking they are a step above the rest...Crew are crew and the duty travel priority should be the same. You cannot operate with either one...Disgrace!

[ditch handle]

Not too many J/C revenue seats left on a 744 if you've got a whole cabin crew compliment paxing with J/C firm status.

I personally find the current arrangements satisfactory.........

[PPRuNeUser0198]

I would not think an entire cabin crew would pax that often? Would seem very uneconomical. Certainly not seen it in all my years. Only ever a few. If I was a crew member I certainly would not like being down the back, considering some of my 'colleagues' were sitting up the front. It should be one rule for all - I wont deviate from that belief.

[ditch handle]

Fair enough and I respect your principled view.

Lots of paxing going on at the moment though with cancelled services and Dugong reliability problems.

P/C, J/C space available works for me. It does the troops who work in the cabin good to immerse themselves in the Y/C "experience" from time to time.:}

Stops them getting, "uppity" ..............:ok:

[Pedota]

Hi lowerlobe

Thanks for your response – and thanks for taking the time to reply.

All I can say is Pedota...you have a very fertile imagination...it sounds to me another example of simple jealousy in that some people cannot stand the thought of others receiving something they are not....

The answer to your comment above is ‘negative’. I apologise if I come across with self interest in mind . . . dare I say I have seen quite a bit of ‘self interest’ exposed on this thread. Maybe there is greater ‘intra-company’ disparity on the matter on staff travel than ‘inter-company’ differentials?

The cost to staff is a figure arrived at by the company for various reasons known only to themselves and is not indicative of the cost of operating the airline.

I believe others have agued that that staff travel is a valuable source of revenue for the company – and that staff travel is provided at no cost to the company. My point is that if staff travel is provided at ‘below cost’ then it is being subsidised by revenue paying passengers. Someone told me I was ‘smoking something’ on this point.

But clearly I’m losing this discourse so I will bury my head in shame and hide!

Good luck with the staff travel scheme – I sincerely hope it is maintained in its present form (if not better) on the back of a safe and prosperous business with a happy and content customer base and workforce. What could be better than that?

I also have a question – how to you put ‘quotes’ in those nice boxes? The best I can do is using italics or bold.

Best to all

Cheers

Pedota

[600ft-lb]

Click on the speech bubble to the right of the italics button.


You can look at staff travel this way if you want to pedota, if there were no such thing as staff travel, why would people (generally) work for a company that often pays below market rates for various positions ?

[PPRuNeUser0198]

troops who work in the cabin good to immerse themselves in the Y/C "experience" from time to time.

That's what Staff Travel is for...:ok:

[rmcdonal]

So is there a ranking system between QANTAS, QLink, Jetstar, Jetconnect, JetS Asia, Cabin Crew, Tech Crew, Catering etc. as to who is at the front of the list when riding along on leisure travel? Does an FO with Jetconnect out rank a Capt with Jetstar?
:confused:

[Pedota]

Click on the speech bubble to the right of the italics button.

Thanks 600ft-lb . . . but the U button is to right of my italics button. Guess I'll continue doing it this way for a while.

So is there a ranking system between QANTAS, QLink, Jetstar, Jetconnect, JetS Asia, Cabin Crew, Tech Crew, Catering etc. as to who is at the front of the list when riding along on leisure travel? Does an FO with Jetconnect out rank a Capt with Jetstar?

Beautifully put rmcdonal. And to link it to 600ft-lb's point, the greatest staff travel (and extended family) benefits should go to those being paid the most under market rates for similar positions.

But I did say I wouldn't comment any more!

Cheers

Pedota

[Jet-A-One]

Pedota-

With all due respect, you obviously just don't get it.

Staff travelers only get a seat IF THERE IS A SEAT AVAILABLE. So if there are no staff travelers, the airline gets nothing (that's $0) revenue for that seat. Staff travel contributes revenue the airline would otherwise lose when it has excess capacity on a route.

I can assure you that QF does not consider staff travelers when they set capacity on a route. ie. They don't send a 767 instead of a 737 just so the staff will get a seat. How you conclude that commercial pax "subsidise" staff is beyond me. :ugh:

I can also assure you that staff travel contributes significant revenue to QF.

I'll do some math for you:

The first fare I seen advertised on the QF website
SYD - MEL one way $89

Now, the FULL LISTED PRICE for that sector is approx $385 of which staff pay a percentage. (and I know you know what that percentage is)

Of course you have to consider that for commercial pax to get discount fares they must be flexible with their travel dates and times. You must also consider that staff travelers must be even more flexible because they'll most likely be flying on the same low demand flights but with no guarantee of getting a seat.

Now, you see why allot of staff don't even bother using staff travel. :D

Back to my original statement: Staff Travel is not all it is cracked up to be! :E

regards, JA1

[PPRuNeUser0198]

Doesn't FBT cost Qantas a considerable amount each year?