What's going on at Bankstown?

[Andy05]

Does anyone know whats going on in some of the schools at Bankstown?
I have heard some sad and alarming things about schools who have not been able to pay there instructors for weeks, aircraft with no MR's as they haven't payed there maintence bill and fuel trucks reluctant to deliver fuel as they are not sure if they will get paid. I hope what I have heard are lies as this would be sad for all the instructors and students involved.
:confused:

[das Uber Soldat]

sounds fairly spot on to me.

[Peter Fanelli]

This is why you never pay for instruction up front.

[Horatio Leafblower]

While I can understand your point, PF, as the owner of a (very small) flying school (not at BK) it would be really nice to have clients make that commitment which would allow us to hire staff, pay the finance on aircraft (even when it rains and we don't fly), and pay the rent.

As I say I understand your point - as a student I was the last one safely out of a school before it went bust, taking many other student's money and the instructor's entitlements with it. :ugh:

I have worked for a lot of small family-owned businesses that have been built up with the toil of their owners (the banks and financiers don't care about CAO 48 if you're a business owner) and I am often surprised at how little "the workers" understand about the proverbial blood/sweat/tears that go into these things.

Do you really think the business owners are just sitting back trying to figure out another way to steal money from students? :yuk:

Although they are much-slandered on this forum I have the highest regard for Sue D, Darrin W and a few others. You perhaps weren't around when these guys were operating 2 aircraft from a single demountable building.... whipper snappers... :rolleyes:

[Peter Fanelli]

I doubt the Sue and Darrin I know are the ones you are referring to, so, I don't know.
Were they around in 1978?

[BKFI]

I have no doubt that most of the larger BK CFI's/Owners have shared many a success in their career and have built up large and successful empires. It's one thing to grow through hard work and quality training - however its certainly another if your success comes from defrauding students and illegally paying your staff and stripping them of their entitlements (which applies to one of the abovementioned).

[GA715]

Yes, people do change. *Welcome to the dark side* :E

Andy are you sure your refering to bankstown? or just to a particular flying school there? Just taking the Liberty of asking. :}

[das Uber Soldat]

You know BKFI, I'd be a little careful of what you post these days. zGeek is the most recent target of an ever increasing tendency of concerned parties to launch civil suits against forums and individual users for comments they deem defamatory.

zGeek has been sued, in Australia, for 42 million dollars for the comments of a handful of users. Why does this concern you? Well the claimants have been granted an injunction to force the ISPs to disclose the IP addresses of the two posters involved in that dispute. So not just the provider, but the individual posters.

Now it doesn't really concern me, but checking your history, you appear to have a bit of a habit of making anti aerospace comments and whilst its your business, I'd be a little wary of going overboard considering that the company has current legal action sitting before the Supreme court (the point being, they don’t appear shy of litigation) and a successful precedent now exists for claimants to pursue individual posters even on what you think are anonymous forums.

But hey, what do I know :)

[WIKI44]

I cannot comment on specific owners of flight schools, but it is bloody hard to run a business and keep every single person involved happy. At every school there will be those who feel happy with the services provided, and others who leave completely unsatisfied. Lately though, it seems the people who are unhappy with the terms and conditions/level of service/quality of training they receive is increasing. I don't think most owners are plotting to screw over their students and staff. Most of them work pretty hard to keep the business going, and especially so now. There are exceptions though (CJ in PMQ for ex.)

The international student market, on which some of the schools in BK have relied on for the bulk of their business, has seen a stark decrease over the last few months. These schools also neglected the local market in the last few years, for the more consistent influx of foreign students. In the last few months these schools have been trying to reach out to the local market again, but it seems some other schools in and around the area have that market cornered.

With the expansion in terms of staff, aeroplanes etc, during the last couple of years, costs have shot up - costs which demand a steady inflow of students. These students are not materializing in the numbers required. It is a very difficult situation, and I hope these schools survive; for the sake of the students and staff.



@GA715 - it is obvious from your recent posts that you seem to be relishing the situation at that particular organization. There are some fantastic people working there, and quite a few students who are hoping to finish their course.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Hey Peter,

This is why you never pay for instruction up front.

"And another thing - I've been wondering lately... am I crazy to believe in ideals?

I'm a better man, but it's gettin' damn lonely..." :{

[GADRIVR]

Das Uber......c'mon mate.
It's real simple.
If an organisation pays its employees EXACTLY what they are entitled to as per the agreed award or more...they must be a half decent employer.
If an organisation has a good relationship built on mutual trust, respect and understanding with its clients, one could be forgiven for assuming that there are few if any problems existing in that organisation.
If an organisation has a good relationship with the relevant regulatory authorities with very few demands to lift its game....again one could be forgiven for assuming that there are few if any major problems with the way that business conducts itself in the market place.
Now show me which particular organisation on the East Coast meets those basic requirements for a budding student/worker.
Resorting to veilled threats here doesn't do your argument any good at all.:E
Wiki44....you are spot on. There are some very good staff at Aerospace indeed.....as there are at other schools in the basin. But thats not the point is it?

[GA715]

Beautifully said GADRIVER :D

Wiki44 - I have no doubt that there are some fantastic people at said organisation and I do genuinely apologise if I happen to offend these people.

[das Uber Soldat]

I didnt think that would come across as a veiled threat, it certainly wasn't the intent. But if this bloke is anything like me, an underpaid instructor (YOU READING THAT BOSS :ok:) then he probably can't afford a defense against a court case.

Its just a bit of friendly advise from someone with a little bit of experience in the matter. If he (BKFI)) wants to keep at it, then have at it man! Don't let me stop you. But don't say I didn't warn you.

If you haven't noticed, i'm only interested in helping out my fellow instructor, whether that be through free flight and duty time programs, advice for newbies operating at YSBK or just how to avoid being slammed with a monumental lawsuit because you thought you were untouchable on an 'annonymous' forum.

Threats aren't my game :)

[GADRIVR]

Das Uber....my apologies! My obviously incorrect view only.
Still......the question remains..
How many organisations on the East Coast meet the min requirements as stated above?
My guess would be less than a half dozen.
My advice if you're being underpaid is to approach your boss....tell them what your view is and have some muscle to back it up (AFAP or Workplace relations, or both).
Just imagine what would happen to all the schools if ALL the instructors did the above??!!
Just a thought.
By the way, your flight and duty time program is brilliant:D
As for the original post....methinks that Andy05 was referring to another school at YSBK. They certainly havent been paying thier bills....and industrial action has been launched.
Should make for interesting reading.

[das Uber Soldat]

No apologies required GA ! And I shall have a new version of the F&D program out shortly, that will be even better :)

As for the GA thing, I more or less agree with you. The pay thing was a joke though, I'm one of those rare instructors that are quite happy with their pay currently. I do remember starting out though, instructing certainly couldn't be your only source of income. I was only lucky to have another vocational background to bring me money whilst I learned the ropes and worked my way up.

[wessex19]

4 Corners tonight on the ABC apparently will be investigating a flight training school or two and their "foreign sub-continental" flying courses!!! Will be interesting to see if and which flying schools are mentioned!!!

[Zhaadum]

NEVER EVER PAY UPFRONT!

Pay on the day you fly for that flight only is the way to go.

Then neither you or the school are out of pocket, and risk is minimised.

If the school goes broke then they can't take your hard earned with them.

If the student renigs on payment only one flight is lost revenue.

Z:ok:.