The sackings will continue until....

[tbaylx]

Latest rumours have another 3 pilots being shown the door at EK. Heard through the grapevine that the augment crew on the Melbourne flight have been asked to leave..and a 777 captain who wrote some stuff on the internet that the company didn't seem to like.

No layoffs at EK depsite the economic downturn, but they should be able to trim a decent # of pilots without regards to seniority this way, just fire em.

Keep your heads up boys.

[Gregale]

Guys still show on the rosters. It will be sad if this is true. get your facts right.

[Time2go]

Confirmed....at least the DEC 777 Captain ( had a blog on the internet ) . Some comments didn't go over well with the Company and was asked to leave.

Free speech in the Middle East.....? think again :=

[Aussie]

ANyone have the link to the blog to see what the fuss is about?

[tbaylx]

As i understand it's been removed..so no link, but there wasn't anything racy in there. Hope my info was wrong about the MEL augment guys.

[InnocentBystander]

Well he was a double dipper ex American Airlines and he was not happy with the ways EK was managed and quite outspoken about it. So I don't think he needed a big push to resign...

[thefoxandfirkin]

The crew being photographed thought it would be a good idea to moon for the picture perhaps???:eek:
Only a rumour guys!

[EK Snorkel]

Heard a captain, fo and purser all fired for taking a group picture of the crew in front of the aircraft.




What would be wrong with taking a picture of the crew in front of the aircraft? :confused:

[oz in dxb]

It would be an offence if it was done in DXB. No photos allowed of the A/C or airport there.

[woodja51]

yeah OZ is right was some burst out about it a while ago..- national security and all in DXB...??

I still remember the days of letting the crew sit up in/on the intake and get a happy snap for the folks back home...( and yes I did tell them not too tread on the acoustic lining and all that stuff... in case anyone wants to have a go..)

But sacking folks for it??... sounds even too harsh for current management... perhaps if everyones morale improved the sackings and beatings would stop?

Guess it gets costs down?
W

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Woodie is right. There was some memo in the past, about no photos in DXB on the ramp.
Despite that fact that pax are merrily snapping away on remote stands :ugh:
Of course all those nice spotters websites, have loads of photos taken in DXB, so quite what that memo achieves is anyones guess. Of course you had to be employed at the time to know about said memo.

Anyhow this alleged firing is just that, unless anyone knows different.

SyB :zzz:

[three eighty]

Sounds a bit over the top to me

[tbaylx]

Really? I don't think anything is over the top for EK at the moment. Lots of pilots on the market, they only need about 60 guys next year...who cares if you fire a few dozen.

Short sighted but the way they run the show here.

[Jet II]

Woodie is right. There was some memo in the past, about no photos in DXB on the ramp.
Despite that fact that pax are merrily snapping away on remote stands :ugh:



well we get people shagging on the beach but that doesn't make it legal ;)

It is well known that it is illegal to take photographs on the airport, many airports around the world have similar restrictions even in Europe.

If the Airport police catch you and make an official complaint then the company has to be seen to do something, although firing them does seem a bit harsh.

[Jet II]

Its for Abu Dhabi but the rules are the same for Dubai.

Visitors to Abu Dhabi should avoid photographing women in general, and particularly national women, without their permission. It is always courteous to ask before photographing people. There are few other restrictions on photography in the emirate – only military, government and airport installations are not allowed to be photographed.

Visit Abu Dhabi (http://www.visitabudhabi.ae/en/practical.information/restrictions.on.photography.alcoho.drugs.etc.aspx)

[Watchdog]

not 'well known' I suspect. My gut feeling is that the 'sackings' are just pprune BS. :=

[EGGW]

I think this rumour is just that. I've heard nothing.

Will close this thread in a couple of days, unless more concrete info is brought forward.

EGGW

[quatregalon]

Heard a LHS guy downgraded because he went to check a crew during layover in her room with hotel security guard and hotel manager. He was concern with the crew's health/security... Anyone know about this?

[Watchdog]

Quatregalon....your first post and a new pprune alias I guess?

Well, that doesn't make a lot of sense - that's what we are MEANT to do!

Sounds like more BS to me. :ugh:

[quatregalon]

Apparently you are not that "informed...."
It was in BKK layover....
Like you I am just trying to get more details... and like you it sounds outrages...
Nope it is not another alias and I am NEW!

[EGGW]

After a couple of e-mails and some investgating, it seems the photos were taken in CMB, and ground staff complained. Pilots are removed from roster.
Daft place to have the birds jump in the engines for photos :ugh: Slight civil war just over.

EGGW

[xkred27]

So we can fly the plane, serve food on it, yet not take a :mad: photo of it.
The guards at CMB are the dodgiest looking goons around.
Civil war, what's worth fighting for.

[tom775257]

I did a few months damp lease for Etihad with Air Malta; at the end I sneaked a picture of myself in front of the Etihad livery jet I had just flown....naughty naughty! Yes we were warned to take no photos at the airport.

[Wiley]

Thye airport of choice for crew in/in front of intake piccies is Auckland. Refreshing lack of busllsh-one-t from the Kiwis - unlike their cousins on the 'West Island', who seem to think they are at the cutting edge of the war on terror. Incoming/outgoing crews aren't even allowed to communicate - for reasons I've never quite got my head around.

Hope this blows over without any long term problems for the CMB crew concerned.

[drop kick]

Its interesting looking through the photos in this month training capt's news letter :D

[Jet II]

So we can fly the plane, serve food on it, yet not take a :mad: photo of it.

Yes - and you cant take any nail clippers, penknife or leatherman with you in case you hijack it either..:ouch:

[S.F.L.Y]

This airport pictures issues is nothing new and often valid for passengers as well. We know it and should just avoid being seen...

[Nightfire]

Well, we all know it's illegal. But to fire someone just for that reason... it's like repairing a wristwatch with a sledgehammer.

[PorkKnuckle]

unlike their cousins on the 'West Island', who seem to think they are at the cutting edge of the war on terror

I believe this relaxed kiwi mentality is due to the security they enjoy from the "I-wouldn't-climb-over-them-to-get-to-you" theory. With Australia in the way, the scum of the universe (often on floating bits of wood or our jets) usually don't bother to make it all the way to NZ and so the sheep-shaggers have the luxury of a level of relative complacency.

It's not their fault; I believe the aussies simply want to avoid their country turning out like the UK has.

[lowstandard]

Seriously?

[etops777]

The capt was demoted to FO..

[tbaylx]

Yup seriously...one less F/O and a demoted captain who will no doubt be a highly motivated employee.

All ya can do is make sure you have an exit plan in advance and hope it doesn't happen to you until they run short of pilots again and have to start acting like adults.

[Marooned]

Support, what support? What part of the SOPs were broken? Whose lives were endangered? TCAS, where are your actions when your mouth clearly offered your support?

They took a few photos, so what? A letter/call to advise that it would be better not to due to local sensitivities would have sufficed but to sack & demote? :mad:

[L1011]

Passed through CMB and tried to get the real story from the SM.

Evidently there had a been a long technical delay and that the engineers were working on the aircraft. The crew were on-board but the passengers were at the gate. A group of them (Brits I was told :uhoh:) had been getting rather aggro that their connections out of DXB were going to be missed.

Someone noticed the crew taking photos and got quite nasty about it, saying that pilot and cabin crew "weren't doing anything to shorten the delay". (How could they?). This group of pax then took photos of the crew around the aircraft with their mobiles and told the ground staff that they would be posting these photos on the internet and emailing to EK management.

The ground staff were forced to report the entire incident as the pax were making a complaint. The SM was shocked to hear of the outcome. Neither the ground staff nor security reported the crew for taking photos. the passengers who made the complaint are the real perps IMHO.

[lowstandard]

Unbelievable, a new low.

AS and ED, you should know that almost every pilot here has ZERO respect for you. I dont even know why I write this as it so obviously means nothing to you two desk monkeys.

As for DXB and EK, its true. You cant polish a turd.

[BYLAW]

This means a new step has been made to increase conflict levels between management and pilots.
Forget "support"
Forget the words spoken on the meetings about any subject.
:yuk:
A kick below the waist, this one.
Respect to the ones that got fired and their families.

[sandblasted]

Lowstandard, you can polish a turd.. watched them successfully polish a turd on Mythbusters a few years back.:}
On a serious note, what a terrible way to deal with such a minor situation, a telephone boll..king/advisory would suffice and a letter to Pax involved to explain the situation. Let's hope the next pilot shortage arrives sooner than later...

[joehunt]

Wiley

"Incoming/outgoing crews aren't even allowed to communicate -............."

You cannot be serious?! If you are, this is the biggest lot of BS I have ever come across!

[Payscale]

Its due to the fact that inbound and outbound crews are on different floors of the building. Occasionally we do meet in the aircraft. Lets not make it worse than it is.

I cant believe that someone was sacked over photos. :ugh:

[You rock]

L1011
I would like to correct you, the SM is partly bull****ting to you
it was not the passengers but actually one of the EK ground staff that took the photos

[MrMachfivepointfive]

I may jeopardize my reputation as an EK muppet - but its true.
I don't know ANYBODY in modern aviation who doesn't have a pic of him/herself taken in front of or inside a high bypass engine - but those folks got sacked for it.
Be careful out there.

[MTOW]

joehunt, despite what Payscale says, from my (quite long) experience flying into Oz with EK, Wiley is correct. The Australians won't let the outbound crew past the departure lounge until the incoming crew have left the aircraft. (Payscale's right about the bridge being switched between Arrivals and Departure floors.)

On the few occasions when I've felt I've had to brief the outgoing captain on some technical issue with the aircraft, they've let me talk to him, but it's turned into an exercise that's pretty close to pulling teeth. Security, y'know.

[Payscale]

My fault. I had DXB in mind when I answered about in and out bound crews meeting.

Payscale

[Instant Hooligan]

Rock, Just to clarify it was a member of the EK staff in CMB who took photo's of the crew taking photo's of themselves to use as evidence against them?
Did I read your message correctly? I shouldn't really be surprised but .......

[Marooned]

Regardless of who took the photo the main issue I feel strongly about is the lack of SUPPORT despite assurances from TCAS, Ed & Marty that it would be given.

If support was given it was ineffective and a sad reflection on the state we are in; that our 'managers' are impotent and regardless of their overtures to the contrary we have no worthwhile support whatsoever.

[L1011]

The photos (of the crew taking photos) were taken by a group (i.e. more than one) of passengers. They demanded that they be sent to EK management along with a complaint.

Doubt anyone would be brave enough to bury something like that. I have known the SM in Colombo for years and have no reason to doubt what he says. Perhaps You Rock has evidence to the contrary?

But the point is the ridiculously OTT response. Typical of how things have been run here recently.

Which reminds me why I have given up reading or responding to these forums.

Bye All

L10

[nakbin330]

He was, most certainly, NOT a national of the UAE!

[EGGW]

When I check the portal, when this incident first was the subject of you can't be serious about this, the 2x crew RR who had just done the CMB, were most certainly NOT Emaratis. Not that the nationality has a bearing on the incident.

Also don't forget your hats chaps, you may get a written warning!!!! Trust me I met an F/O who told me about being reported by a FDM!!!!!!! TCAS went nuts apprently.

Ho hum...

EGGW

[Goat Liner]

Wow... working for Emirates reminds me more and more of Qatar Airways!

[Saltaire]

Being reported by an FDM? So it's mandatory wearing your hat inside the HQ building? I thought in public view was the focus.

This is getting silly

[joehunt]

This is what happens when you end up being slaves to :mad:s. They are and have been for centuries, masters at trading in unpaid or under paid "staff", who are in the end abused and battered. They just can't help themselves.

Talking about the "match made in heaven" to which EK lawyer refers. Is everyone so s:mad: scared of loosing their damned jobs, not make a stand? I.E., leave.? I am afraid I would sweep the streets before being reduced to that. There is also a life outside aviation in case you are not aware.

Never been interested in working for w:mad: again, as I have done my share of bending over, thank you very much. Just not worth it.

I will now avoid flying on EK, for sure.

[GoreTex]

serves the FO right, WTF would he even go to the FDM (who was a crew planner or mopping the floors a few weekes earlier) and apologize for not having a hat.
the FDM is not the boss of the pilots unless we let him boss us around

[Wiley]

More blood will be spilt as TCAS and the Horse try to hold on to a job, they are already on death row, just waiting for the executioner. My prediction is that either (or both) the equine person or the traffic avoidance one will eventually get the chop over the Melbourne incident - (and they both know it) - but only after a suitable 'face saving' time has passed, so it can be sold to those who might choose to believe the company line that will be spun at the time as being not related to Melbourne.

To chop one of both of them now would be admitting that the perfect EK system might not be quite so perfect, so they have a stay of execution. Each thinks the other might be the only unlucky one to go, hence each of them tripping over their own feet attempting to prove to AAR what hard men they can be in dealing with the slav... sorry, pilots.

As the title of the thread says: "The Sackings Will Continue..."

I suspect that'll be one farewell party that will be able to be held in a mobile phone booth.

[tcasguy]

I was wondering if we can come up with an accurate body count for the year. Below are the names I believe were "sacked" and updates through cut and paste are welcome. If anyone has any training cost info, it would be interesting to know what the replacement training costs will be.....

Fly Safe

MEL X 2
MAN X 2
SIN X 1
KL X 1
DXB Blogger X 1
CMB X 1 (Guess CA remained a CA but Purser status is unknown)
EK Safety VP X 1 (back to the line)
ACC (near miss-still with us thank goodness)

I show 4 CAs and 4 FOs to be replaced. Any validated updates?

Fly Safe,

Retired (Again).

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Sailor Staynes is correct. The FDM in question was MT. Don't know what rode him that day.

[Fart Master]

Not the most capable FDM in my opinion

[trimotor]

CMB photos CA in the right seat now for 2 years.

[Payscale]

Could it be because they took pictures at the main airport in a country with civil unrest and that might have jeopardized EKs operation into that airport.

I cant in my wildest fantasy imagine, even after 8 years in country, that its just the fact that they took pics. Even if it was in the engine. How many times havnt you seen foot steps in the engine during walk around.. :uhoh:

[BackpackPilot]

Not the smartest move to be outside taking photos in a place where they've just been at war for years. They base fighters there and have been attacked. Asking the chap in blue camouflage (whats with that??) with the Lee Enfield to hold your lens cover while you take snaps of the girls standing all over the acoustic lining - hmmm.... clever?

It'd be handy to know the real motivation behind the recent spate of sackings. It's not to do with photography or having sex or over-flying a jungle oonga-boonga "palace" too low. But of course if you ask them they will only tell you lies.

[Payscale]

Are you for real Snorkel....? Get off this forum before your dad comes home from his flight. Surely you must a delinquent teen messing around. Run along now...:=

[Murrenfan]

Just checked on the portal, captain still flying as a captain and FO still removed from roster. He presented his appeal a few days ago and still waiting the outcome.
Mfan.

[Fart Master]

It's got nothing to do with war/civil unrest guys. It was some of the pax who complained

[lowstandard]

So we get fired/demoted now when pax complain?

Make sure you bring that up during the next SEP when they tell the cabin crew that they can press charges against abusive pax and the company will back them up.

[You rock]

Its got nothing to do with pax taking the photo it was actually EK ground staff.

[xkred27]

We should all start writing up the ground staff in CMB if this is true.
They are useless their anyway. Every flight write a complaint, it's not hard to find mistakes to write up.

[Wizofoz]

xkred,

And who will that help?

What's happened is bad because someone has lost their livelyhood. Your solution? See if we can get someone ELSE (Probably a poorly paid guy trying to feed his family on a pittence in a third world country) to lose THEIR job, and hopefully start a tit-fot-tat war in the process.

Pretty petty and not at all helpful....

[H1N1]

Wisofoz is right, by the way
I have seen some of our new pilots (in the four or five year range), doing many stupid things, both technically and/or socially.

Everyone here must remember that Emirates IS NOT a normal airline in a normal country. Employees are not supported by any laws. Every rule here is to protect the company, not you. They are bound by religion, costumes, and money, money, money. Any real or perceived threat to any of those and you are on your way home. Trust me.

That AS and ED blabber about support is nonsense.

[trimotor]

For perspective, AS and ED's advice that they will support pilots is restricted to supporting that pilot when he/she has done something based on doing the best they can, with responsible use of resources (i.e. info gathering) and making a decision/taking a course of action based on the best info available to him/her.

Not defending anyone in particular, and ignoring the outcomes of some recent events for a second, if you don't follow the rules or take reasonable steps to get all the info relating to the problem, how can you expect support? Not knowing the rules is not a reasonable defence. Anywhere.

Could you defend someone who didn't follow the rules (that's the game we are in) when they had a choice? Like to see you try...

[ekpilot]

When you can get fired over a single line of more than 3000 pages of rules...

FCOM 1-2-3-4
QRH
FCTM
OMC
FOM
AFM
MEL
CCEM
Cabin Logbook
Aircraft Logbook
CDL
Aircraft Library
LIDO text Book
LIDO Approach Chart
LIDO En-Route Chart
OPT Manual
Dangerous Good Manual
CAP 413 ( Radio Telephony)
NOTAMS
SIGMETS
Employee Handbook
Every Single Country RULES ( about 80 )

AS WELL AS WITH

FCI (# seventy something)
FCN(# ?)
FTN(??)
Emails: (DL instructions)
Alerts on F.O.I.P
Managements on F.O.I.P
Weekly Reports
My Mint
Vistair
Pelesys
Training Info on F.O.I.P

PLUS...

FCOM Amendments
Temporary Revisions
O.E.B Airbus /Boeing
O.E.B Emirates
FCOM Bulletins

And make sure you are to the standards of...

OMD
FCTP
FTM 1-2
APT 2
Recurrent Manual
Conversion Training Manual

DID I FORGET SOMETHING??????? :E (Please add what i forgot)

When they say they will back you up if you stay within SOP, they mean all of the above. Like very well said before the rules are there to protect the company from us. They expect you to operate on limits constantly ( Exemple:Max weight, Min Fuel, Max Duty...) They are almost perfect. Proof is they constantly have to rewrite some SOP procedures so we remain sitting ducks. How can you be aware of about 3000 pages of constantly changing information. But if you are not happy you can leave... If you stay be ready to be as good as your last flight and everything will be okay. This is just how it is around here:D Take it or leave it! Where is the rule about the pics i did not find it?:}

Keep Discovering:ok:

[Mister Warning]

Beautifully said, EKpilot!!

[PorkKnuckle]

Alerts on F.O.I.P
Managements on F.O.I.P
Weekly Reports


Interesting point as there is no mandate (afaik) to read any of what appears on the portal however as you pointed out they'll be quick to hang you should you operate in contravention of any of the "suggestions" contained therein - emails, weekly updates, etc. They used to put that sort of thing in the mailboxes but much CHEAPER to email it to you.

[Dropp the Pilot]

.... on whch you will find the welcome news that you are bound by nothing contained in the AFM: it is a dead document.

That probably takes your total down to 2870 or so.

Keep reading.

[xkred27]

Wiz of OZ

of course your right, let's as pilots accept some 3rd world moron dob us in
and lose our jobs. If their some poor schmuck, then they should do their job and mind their fu#@ing business what we do.

[Wizofoz]

Xred,

Yes, they should.

Would mounting a campain to dob THEM in make it more or less likely that they would take the oppertunity to see US sacked?

Accrimony towards them has made you keen to seek revenge. Why should they be any different?

[Instant Hooligan]

Wiz,
You worry about revenge from their part but they've already done it...!! A dose of their own medicine may well make them think twice.

[Wizofoz]

IH,

Have you ever been involved in a dispute where that worked? Or has it led to escallation of the conflict and more damage on BOTH sides?

[Instant Hooligan]

Like aiming point says!!! How long do we get pushed,poked and prodded before someone stands their ground and pushes back!! To answer your question, several times and yes milk may get spilt but it never happened again.

[disconnected]

The mess of information coming through the various channels, some controlled and some uncontrolled, I believe is actually a good defence.

The company has lost control of the flow of data. So many manuals have duplicated, contradictory data. So many channels are uncontrolled. The authenticity of the information is often at question. Much is not part of the legal documentation so can be ignored.

I think if if got to a legal scrap after some kind of omission resulting in action against a crew, a good lawyer would have much to work with. Some serious questions would be asked higher up and embarrassment and dismissal of those responsible would probably result from the legal argument.

Stick to the basic SOP, forget the rest. Its impossible to keep up. Take out some good legal insurance. Write the odd email about the overload of information and changes, and keep it on record.

If ever anyone throws the book at you sling it right back.

[Wizofoz]

...And how ridiculous that the proposed target of your "Fight for our rights" campain are the ground staff in CMB! Like THEY are our biggest problem!

[yankee22]

Heard rumblings that an EK A380 FO was sacked recently. Can anyone confirm or deny this rumour??

Was told it had something to do regarding commuting to Europe and got caught doing it on standby days....

[snaproll3480]

Yes it is true, but there is a bit more to the story.

[Sonny Hammond]

An A380 FO decides its ok to head home, from the ME to another part of the planet no less!!!!!, when he is supoosed to be on STBY. WTF!!!???

Any window seat on an A380 in any airline has to be one of the most coveted jobs in the industry at the moment, and this guys has tossed it aside as meaningless.

Sorry fellas, with acts of madness like this, WE are our own worst enemy, not CMB ground staff or any management.....

[4HolerPoler]

Take a chill-pill please Sonny - as the previous poster says - there's probably more to the story than a rash decision from a coveted window-seater on the 380. No reason to rise in self-flagellation against the entire pilot body. Or to start drawing parallels with a completely unrelated issue in CMB.

[Sonny Hammond]

Thanks anyway 4holer, but I'm comfortable with my viewpoint on this.

Even if there is more to it, and you are right, there probably is, the fact is he really blew it big time. In the eyes up top we look like complete fools and as such we get treated that way.
Guys like this don't help us in our effort to be viewed and treated as a group of respected professionals.
I not suggesting the whole pilot group acts like this, not at all, but his action effect us all and are difficult to defend.

As far as drawing II's to CMB, I cant see how I did that.
Some posters on here have alluded that the CMB ground staff are the enemy and need punishment.

[tristarfivestar]

so peaple what is the position now.If the airline wants to cut costs then it should end the flight to cities like sao polo and sell of some of their old 777s .Why should the employees pay the price?

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Why stop GRU? That flight is max zero fuel almost every day. If the cabin isn't full, the belly is.

[palm]

India's second-largest private airline Jet Airways has cancelled nearly 120 flights, following a protest by hundreds of pilots who reported sick.

So nice, wish it was EK....

[Evanelpus]

If the airline wants to cut costs then it should end the flight to cities like sao polo and sell of some of their old 777s .Why should the employees pay the price?

Why, what airline really gives a flying **** about it's employees over their own profitablility? None, nada, zilch!!

What a sad thread this is and is just indicative of the way life has become. Disciplined for being photographed and for not wearing a hat. Who would want to work for a bunch of shysters like this?

[Gordo]

Heard a strong rumour that some boeing driver either got the sack or was demoted after being dobbed in(by who?) for listening to his ipod(using mini speakers)on the flightdeck.

Anyone care to confirm or deny this?.

[trimotor]

Dunno, but thre was a guy a couple of years ago who narrowly avoided same (wouldn't avoid the bullet now, for sure) for watching DVD on the flight deck...on his own.

How professionaly stupid do you need to be?

[Jolly Foreigner]

Gordo,

Last year an F/O failed his final line check having just joined the company from 'over the Pond' for listening to his iPod whilst over Europe on the way to the UK.

Maybe this is what you might have heard about.

JF

:rolleyes:

[punkalouver]

What about reading newspapers and magazines?

[pauli767]

Dude, please explain what is a double dipper AA pilot?

Are you implying that he was collecting two paychecks at once.

please explain

[snaproll3480]

..............

[pool]

Heard that a T7 injured a ramp agent while manoevering on 1 eng.
The rumor goes on about the skipper being sacked. Is there any truth to that?
Nothing in the weekly safety rep, but then again they wouldn't dare publish such a event. No one would shut down a donkey no more .....

Someone knows the true story?

[Chandler Bing]

Let them continue the sacking.
No matter what their aircrafts will stay on the ground sooner or later, and they will push the crew to the unbearable limit and beyond safety down to GF sad ending......
Leave the boat before it's too late guys.