Stapleford Flight centre

[Evan21]

Hi All,

Just seeing if anyone has trained at stapleford flight centre?? I am thinking of starting commercial flight training shortly and was considering doing it at stapleford. Any experiences of the school would be much appreciated!

Evan21

[AIRWAY]

Hello,

Use the search function, plenty of recent threads about Stapleford.

I can always provide you with further info about them, please send me a private message, and I shall try and answer all your questions.

Regards.

[Mordacai]

I was there in 2002. They have generally a very good reputation, and I enjoyed my time there. I don't think you will have any problems.

[scott5988]

hey,

Im thinking, BCFT G/S, Satpleford for all the flying. Hear its pretty good! :}

what do you guys think??

Cheers guys

Scott :ok:

[SVoa]

I finished my PPL there in march. Really good school and I reccomend it to anyone wanting to follow the modular route. Very helpfull instructors always wanting to help. Alot of my friends on the IR there were 100% satisfied by the level of training, and noticed they were really prepared for the IR skills test. All of the CPL/ME/IR instructors are career instructors and are always so eager to help. And a VERY friendly atmosphere.

I highly recomend this school to anyone.

SVoa

[Evan21]

Now that i got my PPL at stapleford i must say all of your above comments are v.true. Thanks

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

These are the sorts of comments I've come to expect over the years regarding this school. When I advise Wannabes to find a good UK school with long established reputation employing career instructors who can take you from zero to IRT it is places such as Stapleford that I am referring to. More expensive than a cheapy course in Florida but so so much better for you.

There are plenty of other great schools to choose from.

Enjoy.

WWW

[G SXTY]

I did my PPL at Stapleford a few years back and was very happy with them. Went elsewhere for the commercials, but that was more a reflection of the airfield / ATC / instrument facilities than the school or its training standards.

You hear very few complaints about SFC.

[student88]

I'd give SFC 8/10

They'd get 10/10 if it wasn't for certain rude, unprofessional members of the reception team. One in particular seems to think it's okay to openly discuss students financial situations out loud in front of other customers. (this hasn't personally happened to me but I've witnessed it).

The instructors are great, they really carry the company.

S88

[Muddy Boots]

I'm going to write something that bucks the trend here I'm afraid.

I was there in 2006 and had a bad experience I'm afraid, I'd made a long hard decision to go there and take the modular route rather than Oxford and go intergrated.

There were more politics and infighting there than Northern Ireland. I absolutely agree that the reception staff were rude gossips and unprofessional, it was hard getting noticed by them when you were standing there. The head of the school, Capt. Collin Dobney, has had carisma by-pass surgery and whether or not he is a captain is truly to be verrified. In my time there he never said hello or took an interest in my training even though I had signed on for the full course.

The planes were very heavily worn to such an extent the wings on all the 152s were dented where the students leaned on them to fill them up as there was never a ladder by the pumps. The runway is only half asphalt and goes to grass just after you touch down and has a fairly extreme upslope, the plus is, if you can land there you can land anywhere.

There was no continuity in the instructors and it was a nightmare trying to get the same one twice, therefore most lessons were spent with the instructor trying to work out what you knew rather than what they needed to teach next. Most of them were fairly jaded, all apart from one who taught me little nuances I still practice today, I believe has left now.

I know that this may be different to the good experiences that some may have had but I know there are definitely others who share my bad experiences.

I left after a month and completed my PPL training at Pilot Flight Training in Oxford and had a very happy time there.

Don't be tempted to go there just because it is local for you.

Muddy Boots

[negativeROC]

I know Stapleford. The runway is 1100m, 600m is tarmac. Why touchdown halfway down the runway or am I missing something?

[tigermagicjohn]

"Muddy Boots" (http://www.pprune.org/members/130208-muddy-boots) First of all, how can you compare PPL with CPL training, the question here was for commercial training.
I had to do my PPL retraining at Stapelford, due to expired license, and I found them excellent and honest, they did not make me fly more than I required.
Another thing you fail to mention, landing there is not ideal, but it's free, you have a VORDME on the airfield. I did not fly C152, because I don't like them, the PA28 for PPL training looked a bit tired, but did what it said on the can.

For the CPL they use other aircraft, and it is another setup. Yes they might not pussyfoot around you, and you might need to take and show some own initiative, what I appreciated the most, was that because they are fair busy, they are not just looking to milk the most possible hours out of you.
As anything else, a flying school is a business, but it seems to be a well run business, and at a fair/decent price. I am sure there are others, sure your decision for going there instead of Oxford must have been hard, approx. £50.000 difference!!! :ugh:

If I wanted I could have blown my money on Oxford, but I did not even consider it for one second, because for that extra money I rather have it for a rainy day or a TR if required.

Now to know what gossip the staff talks about there, yourself you have to be a little but gossip too, to stand with long ears and listen. It's an open plan office, what you expect, them to go in the backroom to do their job.

I know not all are as friendly, specially when you make them wait 3 hours extra because you got back from a late flight, after closing time as I did once, overall they are friendly enough for my liking, and anyway I am not there to make friends with them either.

I know of plenty of PPL students who never turn up on time, dont prepare themselves or just simply do not have good enough airmanship or flying skills, there are many factors to consider. View it from the other side too. Nobody knows how flexible you was for training either, what instructors was available, bad weather etc. I could go almost anytime, so was never a problem for me.

And the Airfield, is not the worst I have seen, could be worse. I havent said hey to Colin either, how you expect that, school is busy, that is good, means many people are happy and passing, nobody forces anyone to go there. You probably only see Colin for your check ride CPL/IR - and from what I have heard - better not expect to many smiles, however he is not there to be our friend, he is there to judge if you are good enough to get your license.

Stapelford, 8 of 10, but then again, who would get 10???

[Muddy Boots]

Dear Tiger Magic John

I am glad you had a good experience at Stapleford, I however didn't and Evan 21 who started this post was seeking our opinions on this forum, he now has both mine and yours. If everyone only posted positive experiences what a bed of roses life would be.

To address some of your points but not all of them, I started there on a CPL modular course but was so put off by them that I didn't stay and complete the PPL part of my training. I am currently embarking on the CPL portion of my training.

Flexibility, alas not money, was my decision on going modular rather than intergrated.

I was resident and therefore never late and was available to fly anytime.

I have no idea what the gossip from the chattering classes was but I had the nerve to dare to interupt them to be served as a customer as I stood in reception. By the way it was Student 88 who had the pleasure of hearing the details of the gossip plus he also had the same sentiments about some of the staff.

Wow, they had a VOR/DME on top of the hill that was their runway, not exactly an ILS. It is shear luck for them that it's there, if they closed down tomorrow it would still be there as it forms part of the standard terminal approach and hold for traffic inbound to Heathrow amongst others.

Yes the runway and airfield could be worse, there could be a cattle grid at the transition from the asphalt.

Finally, so you clearly agree the Capt. (ahem) Collin Dobney is an uncharismatic old :mad:...

If we are giving it a score I personally would rate it 3 out of 10.

Go on, your turn to shout...

Muddy Boots

As an addendum, there were others who were disgruntled by Stapleford, my experiences are 3 1/2 years old, maybe they have cleaned up their act.

[Pilot2/b]

I finished training at Stapleford in Dec 09. I would rate them 10/10. I completed the hours building CPL/ME/IR with them and was very happy with the school and training. I found the instruction was fantastic and the instructors were all willing to help at anytime. I passed the CPL/ME/IR first time in min hours.
If anyone wants further information/guidance I'm happy to help PM me.

Ade :)

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I like this thread.

Its a really good illustration of a wider point. Peoples expectation, experience and opinion of the same school does vary widely. The obvious conclusion is that the school is pretty constant and the wide variance reported by the student/customer is down to them rather than the FTO. Instructors often come and go and replacing a bad one with a good one (or the reverse) can transform a school its true.

Just be aware - its ALWAYS been the case that one mans food is another mans poison when it comes to flying schools.


WWW

[Cirrus_Clouds]

......just like anything else WWW.

I agree that this thread is useful, mainly a positive vibe about the school. It's pleasing to see, as this is one of my potential options for the future.

[3bars]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Muddy Boots.

Did some commercial training with them and he's summed up the CFI and some of the Instructors perfectly. I know a few people who went there that wouldn't have a good word to say about SFC.

I suppose they can't keep everyone happy!:suspect:

3bars

[G CEXO]

I completed my PPL in October 2009 at Stapleford. The instruction was excellent and the instructors were always there if you needed any help.

However, their receptionists were very unprofessional. One of the ladies at the reception was brilliant, however a few of them were just a ****in pain in the arse. Numerous times I would stand at the front desk waiting for their attention and assistance and they would just ignore or blank me out. This is really pathetic especially as it's people like us who pay not theirs but everyone's salary at the flying school.

Overall, I have been very pleased with the instruction at Stapleford and I will be coming back to do my hour building and commercial training.

Rating: 8/10 ( would have given 10/10 had it not been for the pathetic individuals at the reception)

G-XO

[BellyAir]

The reception is open at Stapleford, for those who don't know.

The women who work behind there have work to do and just because they can be seen does not mean they can instatly jump up and attend to questions at the drop of a hat.

A lot of the comments on this post appear to be from people with an unreal expectation.

As a pilot, you have to be open to criticism whether good or bad, so why does it matter if people discuss you? Information is shared so lessons can be learnt.

Get yourself a thick skin. You are going to be watched, observed and graded many times during your flying career.

Colin Dobney is a miserable sod, but if you are putting the work in and have a problem, go and speak to him and see how he reacts.

I cocked up 1 thing on my CPL so I required a retest (approach to Southend 06 from the South). Colin came up to me a called me a C*** afterwards.

It was like a hug.

[TangoPapaCharlie]

I totally agree with what Pilot2/b said about stapleford training on the previous page. Likewise, I completed a CPL/ME/IR with them and I must admit, the instructors were all very good and very friendly. Passed everything first time as well.
Concerning the IR, some might wonder if the fact that there's no instrument approach at stapleford is a problem. To my mind, it's not an issue at all. Southend Airport is just nearby and is perfectly suitable for training.
The school is providing accommodations and a student car is available as well...

I'd be more than happy to answer any specific question about their training!

Rating: 9.5/10 because the food could be better at the clubhouse :)

[ei-flyer]

Colin came up to me a called me a C*** afterwards.

Haha what a man. :ok:

[Mile High Nutcase]

question for Evan

did you enjoy your course at Stapleford, what do you make of the school.

let us know innit

MHN

[justasmallfire]

Did my MEP there and after leaving the screens(for partial panel) right at the back of the a/c and after climbing back and giving Colin my size eleven in the face I looked at him and called myself a c### he just nodded in agreement but the test went ok after that.Personally I like to know where I stand with someone.
Found training and instructors good and the free t/o and landings there can be worth their wait in gold when you need the practice.

[RB311]

I too find this an interesting thread.

For sure, if you judge a school by it's reception rather than the standard of it's teaching and results then perhaps it says more about the judge than the judged.

From my experience, SFC does what it says on the tin. The CPL school is there to train people not just to pass the exam but to be suitable for a career in commercial aviation. If you can't take a few well judged expletives from people who only care what standard you can attain then join the public sector.

[SimJock]

The CPL school is there to train people not just to pass the exam but to be suitable for a career in commercial aviation.

I agree with that, if you think Colin is bad, then wait till you meet your type rating instructor/examiner. He/She will have no hesitation in (vociferously pointing out your shortcomings) especially if you fly (badly) !

Did my residential CPL at Stapleford and no real complaints. The only frustration was the bad weather days when you had to find something else to do and the occasional cancelled session when something else came up for the Instructor. In aviation, you have to be adaptable, so you could say that is all good practice.

Good to hear that Staplefords equivalent of james Bond 'Stapleford 007' is still going strong, cheers Brian :)

[ruthers]

I stumbled across this thread and felt compelled to comment on my (rather negative) experience(s) of SFC.
Please bear in mind this was back in 2003, so perhaps not so relevant now, but from what i've read here some of the characters may not have changed very much.

Living in north Kent it would have made perfect sense for me and my friend (who was also looking for a commercial school) to do our CPL/IR's there and save on accomodation expenses. We were basically pleading with them to convince us to part with each of our £17,000 (or whatever a CPL/IR was in those days) - and we really would not have needed much convincing!
We went along for a pre-arranged informal chat with one of their instructors and our impression was very similar to some earlier comments on this thread. It took an eternity to be dealt with by reception (who were only busy talking to each other as far as I could work out), and the instructor we sat down with spent the entire time complaining how exhausted he was. After a rushed mini tour of the 'facilities' which even included a grunt from the 'head honcho' we left feeling rather disillusioned.

Still, I felt perhaps we'd been unlucky and I decided to go back on another day for a second opinion (afterall I really DID want to train there if only for convenience). I spoke to a second instructor (whose name I forget but was the type who would be probably call 'a spade a spade' and who I believed at the time might be better suited as a London cabbie). After lecturing me on how unlikely it was that i'd get through an IR test first time and how he despaired at how inexperienced 200 hour pilots hoped to pass in minimum training hours I once again left feeling dissappointed, and with cheque book firmly in pocket!

Both myself and my friend ended up going to Professional Air Training in Bournemouth (and with the extra accommodation costs) who sold the course to us in 10 minutes flat by telling us they'd ''get it right, first time'' and subsequently helped me (and my pal) get through our CPL/IR's first time, AND in minimum time... fabulous place and people, but I digress.

Maybe if i'd still done my training at SFC i'd have a completely different impression and I completly accept that others have had very positive experiences......I didn't (twice), and I am still amazed there are businesses like these that turn good money away from their door.

I echo the earlier comment to refrain from training at a school just because you live close by.

As an afterthought can I just mention that in my limited experience flying commercially for the last 5 years with 2 different UK carriers I have never once been called a c**t in a training environment (and would never expect to be). I personally don't think that particular style of training has any place in modern day aviation training, it's just lazy and serves no purpose....it perhaps worked 40 years ago but I hope we have moved on from those pre-CRM days. I was lucky enough to instruct for a year before gaining my first airline job and found that the best results would always be gained from building a students confidence, not destroying it.


Good luck to all.

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Some food for thought.

[Muddy Boots]

I feel compelled to post a reply in defense of some of the comments as I was the first person to have a negative view of Stapleford.

I went there to really make it work and it was with heavy heart that I left SFC and I didn't do it lightly. My parents live in Oxford so if I was going to go anywhere that was easy for me Essex wasn't it but no I liked the look of the place and wanted to go there.

I left after a myriad of different issues not just how the receptionists behaved but the surly attitude from Colin Dobney dribbled down to the instructors who thought that his example was acceptable behaviour. I was not the only one, there was a raft of other students in the summer of 2006 who felt they were being treated badly.

I left and went solo in two days with another instructor in Scotland, did the bulk of my license in the UK and completed it in San Diego. So I have had plenty of experience of other flying schools and at the time Stapleford was not being well run.

I had worked in the film industry for years as my day job before I started flight training and spent a year working for Michael Winner when I was 19, so I think I can take being called a c:mad:t.

When you're paying over 45k somewhere you are at the end of the day a customer as well as a student. I appreciate the positive quotes that are here for the place and maybe they have learnt and turned a customer sevice corner? As I said my experiences were 3 1/2 years ago.

[3bars]

It's worrying to me that certain people on this thread think that, not only is it acceptable, but normal to be called derogatory names during flight training and indeed during your PROFESSIONAL career:sad:. It's not.

Thats part if the reason the industry has gone the way it has.... :ugh:

[BellyAir]

don't be soft.

[3bars]

BellyAir...it's not about being soft:=... It's about respect. Which is sadly lacking in the UK...just look at the posts about the way security staff treat pilots:(.

Anywho, enough negative thoughts about SFC...those days are long behind me:ok:

[TractorBoy]

Just to shove my tuppenyworth in here...

First of all, I've only done my PPL ( + Night rating later) at Stapleford back in 2005 (ish). My experiences were

1) I was lucky enough to get the same instructor for the entire course, except one time when he was on holiday. That was the day of my XCQ so I had someone else sign me off for it.

2) A couple of the receptionists were very pleasant and chatty. The rest seemed to just get on with their jobs. As someone pointed out, the reception area is open and they have to deal with phone calls (alot), booking aircraft in and out, tech logs plus a load of other crap, and they can get VERY busy. Just because they didn't want to shoot the breeze that day doesn't mean they're being rude.

3) Colin always seemed a bit distant to me - I never really spoke to him. But then again he did run the CPL side and seemed to have nothing to do with the PPL syllabus. However, there are several exceptionally good and helpful instructors there - Keith Pogmore, Tony Glover spring to mind - who are very experienced, a pleasure to fly with and are more than happy to have a chat with you if you have any problems.

4) The airfield can get a bit boggy during the winter, but there's not many places you can train on grass one day, tarmac the other, plus some off-putting gradients !! You also learn from day one the importance of keeping a good lookout and operating in a very busy environment.

5) The aircraft (152s) are in a state. There are about 3 that are ok, the rest look knackered. This was a real issue for me. Fortunately, my instructor favoured one (one of the good ones). He always got it, as the abbreviated callsign was his initials. The P28s seem well-maintained though. Shame they got rid of their one 172.

I don't regret learning there. I've since moved to the other side of the M25, but still go back for some training (Night rating, some aeros) every now and again.

I'm thinking of doing a CPL in a year or two, and would go back again. Probably wouldn't fly at a weekend, though, as it gets very busy.

[BellyAir]

3 Bars

your point about how security staff treat flight and cabing crew is specious.

It is unconnected to banter between equals, colleagues and friends.

Security in the UK is now the responsibility of people who did not excel at school and to compensate, their rules of engagement are stightly wound because they can't be trusted to make a decision for themselves.

[Callsign Kilo]

Each person's experience of a particular place will certainly differ as time progresses. I finished up at SFC in May 2007 and felt that I passed through their doors at a time when things were riding high. By and large, there were a group of individuals (both instructors and commercial students) who were a fairly tight group. There was certainly a positive atmosphere about the place, people worked hard and achieved results. I for one formed a lot of firm relationships at SFC and often reminisce upon fond memories. Even Colin brings a smile to my face when I look back at it!

To me Stapleford was what it was. There was no bullsh1t, hidden agenda or earth shattering promises. You worked hard at your flying, you made your mistakes along the way, you corrected them with the aid of some very good instructing. You sat the skills test, you passed. With CD at the helm, no prisoners were taken. In order to reap everything that SFC could offer you needed to take your training seriously. I watched a few guys piss about and Colin et.al duly let them. We were all adults at the end of the day and it was all down to the individual. People weren't only in the receiving end of flight training lessons, but also lessons on how a life in aviation would treat you.
If you couldn't stand up to a bit of blunt treatment or a few choice words at SFC then how were you going to cope on the line? I've been flying commercially for two years now and if you get the impression that this is a touchy feely environment where people's feelings are the forefront of everything, then please don't give up that day job!

Nearly three years have passed since I left and I hope that the old place is, by and large, still promoting the same culture. It won't be everyones cup of tea and if you want a bit of flash and glamour to your FTO with some ego caressing when you feel needy, then I would rethink. I sought a place with a reputation for getting results. I felt I got that, as did many others who i trained with at the time.

[AIRWAY]

Hello,

I did part of my PPL training with SFC around 2004/2005, then due to personal issues had to stop. I had a great instructor whom I believe has retired and is now working for the CAA. He was very good, sometimes tough, but very professional, always providing feedback and testing ones knowledge and preparation for the flight, and he was also approachable when one wanted an explanation.

Learning from Stapleford Airfield was a great experience, having a choice of grass/asphalt runway and the gradients too.

With regards to reception I concur with some opinions already expressed above, not a good experience, but then again I was there to fly, so my contact with reception was minimal.

Can’t comment about an opinion on Colin, since I never spoke to him, the fleet is generally old but well maintained and never had any problems.

Overall I had a great time with SFC, I am planning to resume my flying once again and will be looking at SFC, 5 years passed since I last flew so I am sure the place is different and with new faces, etc… (if anyone can recommend a good PPL instructor please PM me).

[G SXTY]

Some fascinating comments. It doesn’t sound like the place has changed much since I last flew there (2007), and there’s not much I’d disagree with.

On the plus side, Stapleford has a long history of producing airline pilots and, IMHO, a deserved reputation for decent quality training. They are also cheaper than many alternatives, and the DA42s are an attraction if glass screens float your boat. They would certainly be well worth considering.

However, - and this is particularly relevant for commercial training - Stapleford aerodrome is an A/G radio field, in uncontrolled airspace, with no instrument approaches. It gets extremely muddy in winter, and if your Seneca or Diamond goes off the end of the tarmac bit, it’ll take ages to dig you out (have seen it happen). Bear in mind as well that the IRT has to be done at Cranfield. Compare and contrast with Bournemouth (I ended up going to PAT) which is class D airspace, with radar facilities, ILS and NDB approaches at both ends of the runway, and CAA examiners on-site. I felt that environment was more beneficial for someone aiming for an airline job, and my view hasn’t changed since then.

Less important, but still a consideration, is the ‘feel’ of the place. It’s certainly not the friendliest place I’ve ever been, which was an issue for me – bearing in mind the amount of money I was about to spend. I didn’t want sunshine blown up my behind or a group hug every morning, but I too have heard the HoT describe another student as a c***, which - in full earshot of anyone in reception - I felt was unprofessional. And for what it’s worth, I have never heard a TRE/TRI or indeed any trainer at my airline talk about anyone in those terms. Personally, I don’t think it’s big or clever.

Still, horses for courses, and I still say it’s a decent school.

[Evan21]

ye the course was great except the instructor was a :mad: ....just kiddin! Found ya!

[NukeHunt]

Wow what a balanced thread about a school for once on here !!.

I too trained at Stapleford, and agree with most of the comments on here, both good and bad but this one caught my eye as it is the one thing that really pi:mad:ed me off about Stapleford...

When you're paying over 45k somewhere you are at the end of the day a customer as well as a student.

That is what lets them down, their "customer" service - some of the people on the "customer service" side of the business seem to forget that you are not just a student, but you are a CUSTOMER too, and one that is spending a small fortune with them - well enough to pay for Colin's shiny new Merc anyway !!. If you walked into a car showroom to spend £45k+, and you were gossiped about and called a cyounexttuesday, then you would walk right back out again and go elsewhere.

Sadly though with aviation training, nobody wants to get a bad name for themselves right at the start, so probably don't bother to complain for fear of being failed on a test or loosing out on a job or an interview as a result (aviation is a small world after all) so Capt Dobney feels he can get away with it as there is not even anyone to complain too about it !!.

I don't expect smoke to be blown up my a$$ or have things done for me, I have worked hard for everything I've achieved so far and I've been in the industry long enough now to know that how things are at Stapleford isn't how it is in the real world, so why he feels the need to make people feel uncomfortable there I don't know - maybe it's an ego thing, or maybe he is just bitter and twisted as all these students passing through are potentially going on to have a successful airline career :hmm:. But when I'm paying good money for a service I at least expect them to help me out if I have an issue or need guidence on something, especially when it is related to something which they are supposed to know about.

They mucked my training up big time by not acting on info I had given them until it was too late, and it ended up costing ME as a result - both in terms of extra time and money - didn't even get so much as an apology despite them having plenty of notice about the issue and being reminded several times.

It annoyed me so much that I actually looked into going elsewhere to complete my training - however the only reason I stayed was because I was going onto the IR, and the IR instructors there are excellent, and the DA-42 and the sim's were pretty much the best on offer at the time.

At the end of the day though, if you can put up with a little BS from time to time, the instructors are excellent, they did what I'd paid them to do and I walked away with that blue book, and still saved money on what other schools charge despite going over hours through no fault of my own.

[tigermagicjohn]

I am sure there are other good schools too, I am not proclaiming Stapelford is the best, however from what I have experienced they seem to run a pretty clean machine. And if they are busy, well that shows a few things, many students, they don't need to drain your pocket for money, because they need to free up space for the next student.

I have seen many schools/instructors maybe less busy, but this also means they will depend more on your business, and for you to stay their student longest possible.

No place will be perfect, everyone will have their positive and negative stories, I personally like the places that do not oversell their establishment, and give me peace to make up my own mind and then decide, there are many slick sales people, and to be honest they love you, and make you feel they are your best friend, until you have handed over your money, and you dont exist anymore!

Also personally I would want the training to be rather harder then the real test, and the instructors to be more strict then maybe required for the CAA exams, I personally would not like to get an easy ride just because I might feel to sensitive.

I have heard many stories of some pretty awfull PPL students & PPL pilots, flying at both Stapelford and other flying schools - and maybe some of these do deserve a rough ride, so they either wake up and get their act together, or if not possible to adhere with good airmanship quit flying completly.
I also believe it depends on each students attitude, when I started I did not go asking them for advice, and what to do, I knew what I wanted, I got one instructor, I was happy with him, and agreed directly with him that I did not want to swap around with instructors, and planned all my bookings directly with him, and guess what? I did every lesson with him, sure there was frustrations due to weather conditions, runway conditions etc., however considering the price and their reputation is pretty good, you can't go to much wrong.
I am sure there are other equally good around, which might have similar prices, and there are others that cost much more.

What I liked was the honesty that they did not try to rip me of by making me fly more hours then I needed, when they felt I was good enough, they let me have my skill test, and to be honest, at much less hours then I expected. I had not been flying for 16 - 17 years, and I had 14 hours dual before my skill test, I actually wanted to fly a little more, but was not required.

Would I want to pay another extra 30.000 - 40.000 (Oxford example) for someone to hold my hand, a place like Stapelford it's up to yourself and what you make out of it. For some, this is not always the best.

[Dreamshiner]

A reasoned reply by tigermagicjohn.

I did a portion of my training there and would comment as follows with respect to MY experience:

PRO's
Efficient
Good Facilities/Aircraft
Brian Peppercorn

NEG's
Priority given to 0 to hero students over modular. Little cliques, "them and us" prevalent, however to be fair, maybe not for SFC to resolve.
Inappropriate behaviour by discussing my payments and account in reception loudly.
Runway.
IR instruction consisted of reading book, show up and fly, I was used to a more consultative discussion/instruction before a lesson than just a debrief.

[base-8]

I finished PPL at SFC about a month ago and overall it was very good. The planes could be nicer but at no point did i have to wait to use a plane. I think the instructors are professional and whilst the receptionist do like to have a chat they get the job done. The new accommodation is nice enough (did have problems with the shower and toilet in my room but these things happen and you cant blame SFC for that!) For me the only thing that i was not happy with was the lady who came in 5 days a week to clean, and by that i dont mean clean, i mean sit down and bitch about everything and everyone. Probably the most 2 faced person iv met. She then would have the audacity to moan about the way that the rooms were left (i saw some of the rooms and there was nothing wrong with them other than the need for a quick mop and cloth.)

I would recommend SFC to anyone and will be returning to do CPL

[SpreadEagle]

Maybe slightly off thread, but I absolutely loathe flying into Stapleford. It is my number one least favourite place to visit. Sadly it is the airfield, it at least feels like, I have to visit the most. There are some I love to go to. Wellsbourne (great cake), Kemble, North Wield and White Waltham spring instantly to mind. There are some I am non-plussed by - Denham and Connington for example. Wycombe and Cranfield are fairly low on my list, both are expensive and both can have curt ATC, but of all Stapleford is rarely a cheerful experience.
Firstly is can get very busy and ground radio have a poor view from their ground floor office. I heard them barking at some chap who had taxyed up the western side of 04 earlier this week, to cut across the runway and get on the eastern side. Granted he was in the wrong place. However their shouting 'turn left immediately and cross the runway' was retarded. Fortunately the pilot ignored them because evidently he had eyes and could see a Cessna on short finals who eventually begged 'No, please stay where you are!' They can't see properly and are a radio, so should not be yelling instructions.
The amount of double-clicking on the radio also irritates me.
But the aviators and that includes the airschool are the biggest hazard. On a busy day some weeks ago I managed to see a gap and line up for 04. No sooner had I done so I heard "G-XXXX on final for 04". I'd had a good look but got off the runway anyway, only to find a twin landing on 22, the opposite direction to the traffic with 4 or so in the circuit! The idiot deliberately dropped in so he could use the hard runway and on pulling off said "thanks for your co-operation everyone". :mad:
On one day, again only a few weeks ago I was meeting with an ex-captain with something like 30,000 hours and 25+ years of GA in that as well. He was cut up on final by an airshool aircraft just dropping straight in on final, but did exactly the right thing to leave enough space so both could land. I was viewing all this from the outside bit in the cafe. A second aircraft, also from the school did nothing to react to what had happened in front, left himself no space and had to go around. On landing, this spotty little herbert from Stapleford flight school approached my friend, and proceeded to draw him diagrams of circuits. I was fairly annoyed and reminded him that there were many people prepared to pay him for his tuition so he needn't hand it out for free. I saw another instructor laying into a young woman because she wasn't wearing a high-viz. I don't remember the last time I saw any of the instructors wearing one however. I have never trained with Stapleford, but my experiences of them are a bunch of rude cowboys who think they own that airfield. I could give numerous more examples but these are just in the last few weeks. You need eyes on stalks and a crystal ball to get in an out safely.
I have overheard them teaching in the cafe many times. Most of their tuition seems on the whole very thorough, but there does seem to be much swaggering and bravado.
A big thumbs down. A place I would never visit, were it entirely up to me.:*
Cafe is ok though.
And again apologies if it is a teeny bit off subject, but I hate that place so much I just wanted to get it all off my chest. I feel better now.
Oh, and I have never had any problems with the girls behind the desk when settling landing fees. Always polite and always on hand.

[zerotohero]

lol its good to vent! you go for it :}

[Muddy Boots]

Good to know I'm not the only one who isn't a fan of the place!

[MagicTiger]

SpreadEagle, it is probably more the retarded pilots on the day, who is to blame. For not knowing or understanding the procedures of the day. Maybe they should have made a proper briefing.

I actually think I was on final the day this happen, as number 2 for 04L, the Cessna decided to land on 04R, while the IDIOT taxing upon on the 04L, decided to cross the runway.

Remember, the Radio service- can not give ANY ADVICE, but to be taxing up on the active runway can only be the fault of the PIC of the aircraft in question.

Yes I also know, suddenly this aircraft crossed over the active runway after the Cessna landed. There will always be pro's and cons, from what I have seen the pro's far outweigh the cons. But there will always be a few people impossible to satisfy regardless.
I personally think Stapelford offers a good training facility, if you can learn to fly there, you can probably manage to fly anywhere. And that is what the major of flying at Stapelford is for, learning to fly, besides the cafe, there is not much else around there.

If you want to go some place as GA pilot only for fun and enjoyment and relaxing, there are other places better, like Isle of Wight.

[flyvirgin]

If you dont like it, Don't fly there, simples:ok:

[lander66]

Very interesting thread although after reading it I am still left with the same conclusion I had before, a confusion conclusion. I suppose the threads for all flight schools are like this.

Just to move away from the training aspect (feel free to move it back again) I was wondering what peoples thoughts were on the accomodation. I know it has been briefly mentioned but can anyone explain what sort of things (after studying of course) students tend to do during spare time? And also how is the student comradery?

[MagicTiger]

I think the best thing to do, is to visit the place yourself. Spend a day there or 2 to see. I have never lived there, but let's say it is not really in a central location, not much to do there besides concentrate about your flying. I would say with the amount of money you will be spending on the training, I would personally worry less about what to do in spare time etc. - and worry more about getting the flight training to the optional. End of the day, you will be there for a short period of your time, every course there will be different kind of people there, some you like and some you don't.

Personally I would focus on my own task, you will not have many distractions if you live there, and just get on with your training. You have time to make friends when you finished training! :D

[lander66]

True enough, although little things like being around the right type of people could have an impact on the enjoyability and of the course, luck of the draw I suppose.

[student88]

I think the place is okay but god that runway is horrendous (04R). Landing on 04L is not so bad..

The instructors are nice, Lisa is lovely but one of the ladies on reception really needs some lessons in customer service.

S88

[Nashers]

does your flat include electricity, council tax, gas, water, cleaning and maintainence in that price?

your getting the same as you would get in a serviced appartment so i dont think 15 a night is too much.. you could have stayed in one of the caravan rooms or whitehouse if you wanted as they are cheaper.

[MagicTiger]

£700 in central London! That has to be a studio or council flat!

Have in mind CPL training and PPL training are 2 different cups of tea. PPL is a hobby, CPL is for motivated and professionals.

It might not be heaven on earth, but certainly teaches you a lot, and I have nothing negative to say about the CPL training - from my view quality. Instructors, briefings, flights, training, nothing negative to say. Have heard of people complaining about PPL training there, but you can not compare PPL and CPL - it's totally different things.

[G-FULL]

I was wondering, how many 152's and how many PA28 do they have? Which type is less used?

[lander66]

Not sure how many they have but C152s are bound to be used more often than the PA28s as they are cheaper to learn in.

[starlet71]

Ah SpreadEagle, think I know of you. You're the guy who drops into Stapleford regularly in that smart looking Piper Sport job.
Truth is that you seem unable to fly the prescribed circuit and consequently cause havoc to the other aircraft in, what is often, a busy circuit.
Try and tighten up on your RT as well. calling "Finals" is naff. you can't be on more than one approach at a time.....call should be "Final".
Also, it's not "Downwind for 04, 22 etc" or "Finals for 04, 22"
Try and avoid "for" and "to" in your RT calls.
If you smarten yourself up and fly the prescribed circuit pattern (please speak to an instructor if you do not know the correct pattern) you may well find your reception a tad warmer and your overall experience improved.

[Maggot64]

Whilst I cannot comment on the training aspect of this thread, I would like to share my experiences of Stapleford and its customer care.

About 18 months ago I moved to Essex and was looking for an airfield to rent a plane on a regular basis. I chose Stapleford on the basis of convenience & reputation. I had flown into Stapleford on a number of previous occasions and and had no reason to think of Stapleford other than as a professional airfield with a decent cafe.

The checkout was fine and there was no problem with the instructors - they were polite, friendly and professional - however the aircraft was rather tired.

The reception staff were in a class of their own in their approach to customer care & one person in particular stood out & not in a good way. The staff at the Reception Desk seemed to take adverse pleasure in ignoring you for as long as they could even when they weren't busy and then would treat you with almost complete contempt at having had the audacity to ask them a question and attempt to line the pockets of Stapleford Airfield. Why????? It wasn't a one off occasion where the staff may have had a bad day but on almost every occasion I dared to brave the Reception Desk.

On one occasion, I booked the aircraft for a late afternoon session only to find that it was low on fuel and that the fuel pumps had been locked for the evening. No one bothered to call me so it was a wasted journey which I was pretty cheesed off with.

Another time, the aircraft was wrongly booked out - so another opportunity to fly was lost.

My wife was appalled at the service we had experienced (as she was with me on each occasion) and categorically insisted that we find another airfield to fly from as it wound her up even thinking of flying from Staplefield on a regular basis let alone consider doing her PPL there.

A pity as Stapleford has a lot going for it but I won't be spending my hard earned money there.

[Rodrek]

Hi guys,
I've read all your posts and I'd like to ask you some questions about the IR training in SFC.
As far as I've read people said that the IR training in SFC is excellent.
Do you think that a DA42 (with glass cockpit) would be better than any other multi airplanes for IR operations?
Do you think that training in a controlled airfield would be better than training in an uncontrolled one (like stapleford)?

[Anonystude]

I did my inital ME SPA IR at Stapleford at the end of last year. I'd certainly say the DA-42 / G1000 combo makes passing the IR a hell of a lot easier; it also prepared me (coming from a strictly steam-and-dials world) nicely for the MCC. As for the controlled airfield thing -- I'd say that's not even a factor. You're not in the circuit that much, if at all. Most of the time you're off on route flying (once you're out of the sim and in the aircraft). The only interesting thing is negotiating with London to get a join somewhere north of the field, but that's no drama.

I'd wholeheartedly recommend them if you're after an IR with minimum stress and a decent quality of training.

[proudprivate]

I inquired about doing IMC training a Stapleford in early 2008. Made an appointment through the reception. When I showed up, reception told me they had no record of my booking, terribly sorry, no instructor available :ugh:
Ended up taking a couple of £'000 of custom elsewhere. Their problem, not mine.

DA-42 - I've been told its easier to fly than the usual old metal, with no worries with prop sync, etc... But the IR-part is relatively mild at the twin level, anyway. Fly a few approaches and do a hold on a single engine and that is it basically.


Do you think that training in a controlled airfield would be better than training in an uncontrolled one ?


The advantage of a controlled airfield is that you don't have to fly very far to shoot a real approach and that the RT is for real. But I guess your instructor can set up non-precision DIY approaches at Stapleford and practice the RT in a simulated way so the travel would only be needed for ILS's.
The advantage of a non-controlled airfield is that the landing fees are generally cheaper and it is less hassle to depart when it is not busy.

[truckflyer]

Why the heck would you think they would make you a DIY non-precision approach at Stapleford?

I mean this is not a Cowboy school where they try fleece you for every pence you have. Southend is 10-15 minutes away! (Controlled and Non precision)

ILS is problem, as is at moment either Cambridge or Manston, Southend O/S!

[JLMF]

Stapleford is a really good school.
Instrutors are TOP !
I´ve done there all my training.

[pudoc]

The 'DIY' NPAs at Stapleford aren't exactly DIY. They have approach plates for a VOR/DME procedure but it is a 'training only' approach but I wouldn't mind betting that LEA use it when they have to.

[proudprivate]

Why the heck would you think they would make you a DIY non-precision approach at Stapleford?



The 'DIY' NPAs at Stapleford aren't exactly DIY. They have approach plates for a VOR/DME procedure but it is a 'training only' approach

DIY obviously has a negative, "illegal" connotation, inferring all sorts of nastiness about the Stapleford instructors, which was not my intention. I'm sure they are pretty decent chaps (once the booking reception gets their act together :E).

By DIY I meant "for training only". I have never seen the training VOR approach plates at Stapleford, I just assumed something like that existed (traffic and airspace permitting). It's definitely something I would design as an instructor if my local airport had a nearby VOR, no VOR approach and the airspace would allow it.

I was trained at an airport that had real VOR, ILS and 2 NDB approaches, so admittedly I was a little spoilt. But my instructor took me to other VOR's and NDB's where we trained holds and simulated approaches at altitude + x000'.

And I assume the BBC Essex Radio "NDB" is still in vogue with the local training community ?


Southend is 10-15 minutes away! (Controlled and Non precision)


True, but that adds 30 minutes (£75-100 ?) to the training bill for each flight training session, definitely something to consider. Of course you can practice things like partial panel on the way there...

I think the ideal situation is a controlled airfield that is not busy and where the FTO / RF gets a discount for approaches. Failing that, it is a consideration of all pro's and con's and the practical workarounds discussed in this and previous posts...

[Anonystude]

PP -- while it's true Southend (now with ILS back serviceable, I believe) is ten minutes away, you usually end up doing something on the way back, so it's not time wasted per se. And once you're in the aircraft you're almost always doing some airways/route flying on the way out, so you're not wasting time there... I think, to be honest, the time you spend transiting back is offset by not waiting at the hold/circling in the overhead while you wait for other movements to get out of the way. Horses for courses, as you say.

[truckflyer]

Not sure how minutes wasted flying to Southend, you need to position yourself for both hold and procedure, not much time doing that from Stapleford to Southend, so not exactly wasted time.

If you depart from fully instrumented airfield, you will still need to fly that amount of time to get yourself into some position to fly back, enter a hold and do an approach!

Another positive thing, no landing fees at Stapleford, and no ATC delays. You pay for time you fly +5 minutes before TKOF and after LDG!

I have heard stories where people flying from places like Biggin Hill, spending 40 minutes on the tarmac, and paying for the joy of waiting and holding!

So depends what you want, if you want a no nonsense approach, than Stapleford is a good alternative. Quite surprised with such way of thinking.

Also if you can land downhill on 04 at night with approach, than you can land anywhere! There is a challenge and a learning objective where you look, does not need to be a 747 runway like Manston!

[student88]

Sometimes you can look into things too much. It doesn't make a difference that you start/end your test at an uncontrolled airfield. Personally I think it might actually work in your favour.

The school is generally good. The instructors I had taught me well. At the end of the day:

1) I passed the course on minimum hours (and minimum cost).
2) I got a series one attempt one (first time) pass.

It's a busy school, the sims are pretty much in use all day and the aircraft are always flying whenever they are serviceable/the weather is suitable.

Take SEN out the equation. The whole Olympics thing and easyJet operating out of there come April will probably make the airfield somewhere that SFC wont like to operate around.

[student88]

Also the Head of Training (Dobney) is nothing better! He loves doing the 170A checkouts because he gets the £100 cash in hand and wont let any other FI do the 170A!! but his alright to fly with!!


Ridiculous statement. I suggest you edit your post. I never had a problem flying with Colin. Not every FI is approved to sign off the 170A.

[Anonystude]

The more pressing reasons why Colin usually does 170As are twofold: firstly, if you've flown with one of the others before the 170A he can't then sign you off -- I only thought there was one other 170A signatory, and he was one of my primary instructors. Secondly, for all of his bull, I got the impression that Colin does care about standards, and I reckon if you can pass with him then a CAA examiner will be a cakewalk.

You are right, of course, that most of the 170As are flown by Colin, but I don't think it's that big a deal.

[pudoc]

I think at the end of the day it comes down to where you feel most comfortable at. A lot of people I know who built hours in the US went on and on about it being controlled and how they'll be prepared for airline world. Load of crap, we all hold an RT license. I actually think it's harder flying into somewhere uncontrolled because you have to be very vigilant with a good situational awareness and you aren't being told what to do.

Who knows, who cares.

Never heard of an interview question of whether you trained at a controlled field or not, doesn't come up in ATPL exams or the medical - believe it or not!!!! Am still yet to here from a recruiter "yes well those pilots who trained at a controlled airfield make such better pilots, fantastic to hire".

As for the receptionists, I think they're a lovely bunch!

[truckflyer]

"B737Dude" About the 91 Pence, is pure BS, a lie!

My account did sometimes go just over limit, due to various circumstances, and was NEVER a problem.

They hold your deposit, until they sure they have covered all approach/landing fees!

I agree, you should stop speaking nonsense, and stick to facts!

I believe for the IR, it is only Colin who can do the 170A! For CPL there might be another 2, however it is complete nonsense what you write, as you trying to create some BS here, about the reception ladies! Seriously I doubt you have been there, or you who don't have people skills!

Even now long time after I finished, if I come by, they always say hi, and ask how things are going, maybe you gave them a bad impression by your own character!

[proudprivate]

If you depart from fully instrumented airfield, you will still need to fly that amount of time to get yourself into some position to fly back, enter a hold and do an approach!


Huh ? If you tell the tower that your intention is to fly approaches then you depart the runway and basically begin with a MA leg before talking up a hold or a procedure.

Believe me, that doesn't take as much time as flying from Stapleford to Southend. Whether you like it or not, EGMC is 20NM from EGSG, or about 12.5 minutes @ 110 KTS direct. A missed approach leg at most airports is not even half that length. And you have to fly back to EGSG when done.

As I said before, this can be accommodated with clever planning from the instructor, but you cannot make the distance go away by sheer willpower or marketing.

The more a think about it, the more I would suggest that the OP make a pro/con list, especially when comparing EGSG with EGMC (and EGMH). Landing fees and ground travel time to get there and comparing those with the proposed training schedule would be two things at the top of my list. That requires talking to instructors at the various FTO's/RF's.


A lot of people I know who built hours in the US went on and on about it being controlled and how they'll be prepared for airline world.

A lot of people I know trained / built hours at non-towered fields in the US. Usually aircraft are slightly cheaper to rent from those places.


you have to be very vigilant with a good situational awareness

You spend most of your time under a hood or with foggles, leaving the (non-navigational) situational awareness and the vigilance for other traffic to your trusted friend in the RHS with tig hours.
A priori, you could say there is a safety argument for doing your training in controlled airspace, as the RHS then generally doesn't constantly have to divide attention between looking outside and instructing you. But I dare say most instructors can cope with that.

[truckflyer]

Take off and go direct on a MAP procedure! This way before TKOF you will know what your hold entry is!

In real world you will not always know before you TKOF what your hold entry will be, and that is a part of the training, to be able to solve this in flight, while working on the radio, situational awareness etc.

Some flights will be doing approaches only, others will be doing routes combined with approaches, on the route you will have to fly from A to B anyway.

Try doing a route to Cambridge, and get stuck for 30 minutes in the hold, waiting for your approach, this is not something anyone can pre-plan!

Generally Southend traffic is not that bad, but just shooting of after TKOF into MAP I would say does not give you a realistic flight sequence for preparing an approach, ATIS, checks etc.

The whole point is to get realistic experience in real flight environment.

When flying direct Southend from Stapleford, they will re-position you, so that you need to work out your hold entry in flight, maybe not a major thing, but it is all part of good training.

On the way back to Stapleford, you do airwork, single engine visual approach, which is also part of your training!

[pudoc]

You spend most of your time under a hood or with foggles, leaving the (non-navigational) situational awareness and the vigilance for other traffic to your trusted friend in the RHS with tig hours.
A priori, you could say there is a safety argument for doing your training in controlled airspace, as the RHS then generally doesn't constantly have to divide attention between looking outside and instructing you. But I dare say most instructors can cope with that.

I was actually went on a bit of a tangent and was just talking about flying in general, not IR specific.

[truckflyer]

What is sad, is that people blatantly lie!

Some are oversenstive for the reception ladies there.

Maybe some of you complaining have either never been there, or you have been doing some wrong yourself, however only half facts/statements are presented here.

What I liked with Stapleford, is that they are a honest bunch of people, they don't try to rip you off, they don't need to, they have to many students, so it gets busy!

Maybe they are not there to give you a red carpet treatment, but it is not Oxford prices either

[proudprivate]

I had wanted to leave the conversation where it was on the 24th, but now you seem to infer that I'm somehow not telling the truth, misrepresenting facts or that my grief then was of my own doing. Well...

First the technical matters :


Take off and go direct on a MAP procedure! This way before TKOF you will know what your hold entry is!

So what ? We're not comparing the possibilities of practicing hold entries, just the time it takes before you get to an instrument approach fitted towered field. When you start from a towered field, it will be quicker because you are already there.

Hold entries you can practice over any VOR, NDB, Radio Station etc... outside of controlled airspace. You don't need to have the instructor "position yourself" so as to arrive over the NDB from such and such radial in EGMC.


Try doing a route to Cambridge, and get stuck for 30 minutes in the hold, waiting for your approach, this is not something anyone can pre-plan!

We're talking about Cambridge in the UK ? 30 minutes hold ??? Last time I flew there I got my landing clearance at beacon outbound...


The whole point is to get realistic experience in real flight environment.
I disagree. A good instructor can just as well simulate that real flight environment in uncontrolled airspace while simulating atc calls.

When you state

Some are oversenstive for the reception ladies there.

and

Maybe they are not there to give you a red carpet treatment


I can indeed confirm that I did not get a red carpet treatment from the reception / booking office. I can also confirm that they did not rip me off for any money. They only made me rush from work and waste time and money on two cab rides to and from the airfield. If they had too many students / were too busy, I would have gladly rescheduled or accepted that my training request couldn't be accommodated for this term / season.

I'm sure that, if they had been able to manage their booking agenda properly, I wouldn't be writing about it now.

And I hope you can see I wasn't writing for or against Stapleford Abbots / SFC. My point, in answering the OP's question, was that you should consider many factors, such as travel time on the ground, landing fees as a student, travel time in the air to the various navigation beacons and instrument approaches, safety while under the hood, etc

[truckflyer]

No further comment about your last message, however yes I know of pilots who have been stuck in hold at Cambridge, or been radar vectored around the area for 20 - 30 minutes, even at "little" Cambridge!

And during the 3 months I was doing my IR I know it happen to another 4 guys, and it cost money to keep waiting for your approach at a busy airfield.

[student88]

At the end of the day, whether you're spending £1.99 on a cheeseburger or £25K on a CPL ME IR package, you expect respectable level of customer service. There were times at SFC when the service from those behind the reception desk was rubbish, sometimes they were pleasant. It totally depends who you came in contact with.

As for the financial side, I had a few issues which were only resolved through me keeping an extremely close eye on my account. Yep, sometimes honest mistakes were made, others were (IMO) unacceptable and money which shouldn't have been taken out of my account was refunded, all be it reluctantly.

It is important to understand that not everyone will get through the course on minimum hours. Some people learn quicker, others take a bit more time. Yes, if you flew from STAP to CAM on every training sortie you'll end up spending more of your time in the cruise then shooting approaches but the fact is that doesn't happen. Students regularly alternate between SEN, MSE, CAM and occasionally LYD.

If you want to see what SFC is really like for students go down there and look for yourself. Don't make an appointment, just turn up, sit in the clubhouse and try and listen in to a debrief or two, maybe ask a few questions to students who are away from reception.

[timpav]

Guys this all sounds lovely but who that has trained at SFC has gained employment and where? just asking as im almost at my decision to train there but just wanted to see who had been employed and flying what?

thanks

[federico100mt]

Hello,

anyone here that is actually get trained in Stapleford FC?

Bye

Federico:ok:

[Steevo25]

I thought I would add my opinion here as someone that has only just finished their PPL at Stapleford. I have no intentions, and never had, of going any further than PPL level as this was just going to be a hobby. Having said that, I may add my night rating and IMC just for the extra experience.

My experience was generaly very good overall but had I have been asked when I first started it would have been an extremely bad review.

My wife got me into it by buying me a trial lesson for our anniversary. I had always wanted to do my PPL but never got around to it. I turned up on my trial lesson and it was a glorious day. I got there about an hour early but the instructor was already ready so we went up about half an hour early. It was a great trial lesson and I actually got a little bit longer than my half an hour.

I was hooked straight away and immediately after landing went back to reception with the instructor to inquire about doing the full PPL. After going through the costs etc I decided that I would pay for the full 45 hours up-front to which I did and booked my first lesson for the following week.

Unfortunately, the instructor who did my trial lesson was not available so they assigned me a different instructor and gave me his details there and then. The instructor who did my trial lesson then showed me around the place and took me into the shop and showed me what I would need to purchase. He was really helpful and told me what I would need immediately and what I could put off buying to a later date. I ended up buying a logbook, books 1 and 2 of the pilots manuals series, a fuel tester and fuel guage (as I was doing it in a C152) and a checklist.

The following weekend came which was atrocious weather so I rang up an hour before my lesson to which I was told that the lesson would have to be cancelled due to weather. Obviously not their fault. So then I tried to book another lesson. This is where my problem started as there were not any available slots for about 3 weeks. I expressed my concern that I had paid in advance and I really wanted to crack on and hopefully get it all completed this year. I had to ring back several times to check for cancellations but I really wasn't happy as I felt like they had just over subscribed students and if I was going to have to wait this long between lessons then it was not going to be very productive.

When I rung back for a third time it was a different lady on the phone who was extremely helpful. She shifted some things around and got me a slot with the same instructor I was originaly booked with for the following Saturday (2 days time). I turned up and everything went as planned and it was a great first lesson. My wife came along with me and we had a great meal in their very friendly club house.

Anyway, I had the same problems again when I tried to book my next lesson. Again, there were no slots available. They said that they could get me a slot but it would be with a different instructor which would now mean I would be flying alternatively with 2 instructors (one on Saturdays and the other on Sundays). They booked me in for about 4 weekends on the trot. The new instructor I just could not get along with. I found him very direct and also very sarcastic in his comments and to sum him up 'a know it all'. I take very well to constructive crticism but I do not take well to out and out degrading. He really did not make me want to fly and I always made a lot of mistakes with him as I just felt nervous touching or doing anything through fear of making a mistake. Incidently, I am not going to name either of these instructors.

I used to look forward when I was flying on a Saturday as the instructor made me feel at ease and was always constructive with his comments and corrected any mistakes I made in a good way. He was under the opinion that you did not learn anything if you didn't make mistakes. On Sundays I flew with the other instructor and it really did make me consider giving it up. If I did one thing wrong then all I would hear was a sarcastic comment over the headphones that always made me feel like I was not cut out for this and maybe I should just give it up now. Also, the 2 instructors had 2 completely different styles and opinions. The first instructor would show me how to do something and then the 2nd one would tell me a completely different way and say the first method was wrong. I had to adjust my flying style depending on whether I was flying with instructor 1 or instructor 2.

Then one day I just lost in on the Sunday while doing circuits with the 2nd instructor and just told him that he had control and could he land the plane so I could get out. I told him that I really did not like the way he speaks to me and if I am so bad that he is constantly criticising me then why doesn't he just tell me that I am not cut out for it and stop taking my money every week.

He landed the plane and I stormed off home with my wife and sat down to decide whether I should actually ask for my money back and just give up as I was obviously not cut out to be a pilot.

A day later I got a call on my mobile from instructor number 2 who asked me if I would come down to the airfield. I agreed and once there he took me into a corner of the clubhouse and apologised to me. He told me that the reason he was being tough on me was that I was actually doing very well and he was just piling on more and more things to try and get me through this in the best possible times. He explained that this was just his way and that he was never intending to be degrading. He said that because I was picking up things very quickly he wanted to push me harder.

To cut a long story short, after that incident I got booked in for a double slot on the Saturday and a single slot on the Sunday and this went on for the rest of the course (3 hours per week). The 2nd instructor turned into a very good friend (as did the first) and I still speak and joke with him now. But it did take me a while to get used to his methods.

All-in-all, I ended up being very impressed with the teaching and actually completed my PPL in only 3 hours over minimum times and 2 and a bit hours of that was my skills test. I didn't go solo until 21 hours but that was mainly due to the argument I had and the fact that lessons were regularly cancelled due to weather.

Regarding the staff in reception, from what I can gather there are only really 2 ladies that deal with the training side of things that are never there together. The rest of the people sitting in reception are the back office staff that do all the paperwork around it and I don't think they are really there to deal with the public. The only reason you see them is because it is an open planned office. Usually if the lady was busy I had to wait but occassionly they would offer. There were numerous times I heard the instructors discussing other student's problems which I just turned a death ear to and I do feel that some things could have been discussed a little more discreetly.

From my own point of view, on the whole I did enjoy my training down Stapleford and would go back and do some more training. I found it an ideal place to learn as I got experience of both solid and grass runways, at times a very busy circuit that you were basically responsible for your own safety as there is only an A/G station there so it made you very good at looking out for traffic. Also, most times we would immediately change frequency to Southend so I also got the experience of talking to a full ATC as well. There were almost no waiting times for taking off wo when you paid for a hour, almost all of that was in the air rather than holding. Also, the landing fees are free for students so when doing circuit training you do not have to worry about how much all the touch-and-goes are costing and it means you can have as many goes as time permits.

The only additional cost is the fuel surcharge they add on which can come to quite a bit (mine was nearly £300 for the entire time). When you pay for 45 hours in advance, you only really get 43 hours as the rest is taken in fuel surcharges. I would have preferred to have paid for everything so I know that it was paid for but the costs were on par with what everyone else was charging (substantially cheaper than some) so I guess it all evens out.

Lastly, for the PPL you can get everything doen at the airfield including your medical as they have an AME on-site twice a week and all your exams and tests can be taken and marked there as they have full time examiners. The exams are a reasonable £20 per exam with the RT oral exam being £50.