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hugel
8th Jul 2009, 14:44
I am trying to define a means to select airports on a screen map with a cursor. It has occured to me that there could be two airports in very close proximity (or even the same airfield) that have a different name or identifier which would make discrimination difficult.

Is it often the case that if airfields with different identifiers are shown colocated on a chart, such as airfield with a mix of military and civil traffic for example ? Do you have any examples that would illustrate this ?

Of great help would even be a link to an airport list with coordinates so I could calculate the proximity myself....

Any help is much appreciated.

hugel

galaxy flyer
8th Jul 2009, 15:46
Honolulu is PHNL, Hickam AFB, located on the west side of PHNL is PHIK. The only one I can think of, off hand.

GF

bookworm
8th Jul 2009, 17:57
The best examples I can think of are:

Schwäbisch Hall
eddh.de - Landeinformationen (http://eddh.de/info/landeinfo-ergebnis.php?eicao=EDTX)
eddh.de - Landeinformationen (http://eddh.de/info/landeinfo-ergebnis.php?eicao=EDTY)

Treviso (about 3 runway lengths, but close enough)
eddh.de - Landeinformationen (http://eddh.de/info/landeinfo-ergebnis.php?eicao=LIPH)
eddh.de - Landeinformationen (http://eddh.de/info/landeinfo-ergebnis.php?eicao=LIPS)

A little creative SQL gets me to:

arpt_ident | name | arpt_ident | name | dist
------------+----------------------------+------------+-------------------------+------------------
LFSN | NANCY ESSEY | LFEZ | NANCY MALZEVILLE | 2.04542734275588
LFLJ | COURCHEVEL | LFKX | MERIBEL | 2.4204666690611
LFPX | CHAVENAY VILLEPREUX | LFPF | BEYNES THIVERVAL | 2.82020306100027
LFMO | ORANGE CARITAT | LF28 | ORANGE PLAN DE DIEU | 3.21142183992068
LFPV | VILLACOUBLAY VELIZY | LFPN | TOUSSUS LE NOBLE | 3.50535669670473
LFTM | SERRES LA BATIE MONTSALEON | LFNJ | ASPRES SUR BUECH | 3.65320098631799
LFCH | ARCACHON LA TESTE DE BUCH | LFBC | CAZAUX | 3.88995075906676
LFPZ | SAINT CYR L'ECOLE | LFPN | TOUSSUS LE NOBLE | 3.92751507367681
LFDT | TARBES LALOUBERE | LFBT | TARBES LOURDES PYRENEES | 3.93799610029583

arpt_ident | name | arpt_ident | name | dist
------------+-------------------------+------------+---------------------+--------------------
EGHQ | NEWQUAY | EGDG | ST MAWGAN | 0.0166667025164031
EGDK | KEMBLE | EGBP | KEMBLE | 0.0516847403067543
EGUS | LEE-ON-SOLENT | EGHF | LEE-ON-SOLENT | 0.0905994068824777
EGOA | ALDERGROVE | EGAA | BELFAST/ALDERGROVE | 0.450928709771956
EGEW | WESTRAY | EGEP | PAPA WESTRAY | 1.52311834540447
EGVF | FLEETLANDS | EGHF | LEE-ON-SOLENT | 1.82680067366903
EGVF | FLEETLANDS | EGUS | LEE-ON-SOLENT | 1.86819980029048
EGOP | PEMBREY | EGFP | PEMBREY | 2.20297907893369
EGDN | NETHERAVON | EGDJ | UPAVON | 2.42862015389302
EGTW | OAKSEY PARK | EGDK | KEMBLE | 2.69028695098676
EGSU | DUXFORD | EGMA | FOWLMERE | 2.71184164830329
EGTW | OAKSEY PARK | EGBP | KEMBLE | 2.72082034342921
EGXV | LECONFIELD | EGNJ | HUMBERSIDE | 2.98689228090387
EGOA | ALDERGROVE | EGAL | LANGEFORD LODGE | 3.05945689641376
EGXG | CHURCH FENTON | EGCJ | SHERBURN-IN-ELMET | 3.10410007055074

arpt_ident | name | arpt_ident | name | dist
------------+--------------------------+------------+-----------------------------+-------------------
EDTY | SCHWABISCH HALL | EDTX | SCHWABISCH HALL-WECKRIEDEN | 0.35340210838668
ETMN | NORDHOLZ | EDXN | NORDHOLZ-SPIEKA | 0.526097289083107
ETMK | KIEL-HOLTENAU | EDHK | KIEL-HOLTENAU | 0.68969184564159
ETIY | LANDSTUHL HOSPITAL | ETIP | LANDSTUHL | 0.874792546372163
EDUY | WELZOW-SEDLITZER SEE | EDCY | SPREMBERG-WELZOW | 1.66218299792869
EDQY | COBURG-STEINRUCKEN | EDQC | COBURG-BRANDENSTEINSEBENE | 1.98325776062027
EDFX | HOCKENHEIM | EDEH | HERRENTEICH | 1.98695837326539
ETNS | SCHLESWIG | EDXC | SCHLESWIG-KROPP | 2.19485050823382
ETIK | ILLESHEIM | EDQB | BAD WINDSHEIM | 2.32087910419751
EDGH | HETTSTADT | EDFW | WURZBURG-SCHENKENTURM | 2.60898257830167
EDGT | BOTTENHORN | EDFI | HIRZENHAIN | 2.71341122333898
EDRY | SPEYER | EDEH | HERRENTEICH | 2.79861849128526
EDUS | FINSTERWALDE/SCHACKSDORF | EDAS | FINSTERWALDE/HEINRICHSRUH | 2.83196160610075
ETIY | LANDSTUHL HOSPITAL | ETAR | RAMSTEIN AB | 2.95351866443979



Of course some of those, like St Mawgan and Newquay, may simply be renamings -- though it looks like they moved the ARP 100 ft when they did that!

aerolearner
8th Jul 2009, 19:25
Treviso (about 3 runway lengths, but close enough)
eddh.de - Landeinformationen
eddh.de - Landeinformationen
Montichiari (civil airport serving Brescia) and Ghedi (ItAF base) are even closer:
eddh.de - Landeinformationen (http://eddh.de/info/landeinfo-ergebnis.php?eicao=LIPO)
eddh.de - Landeinformationen (http://eddh.de/info/landeinfo-ergebnis.php?eicao=LIPL)

BR

aerolearner

ChristiaanJ
8th Jul 2009, 20:38
I think hugel is really looking for co-located airfields, which happens when the civvies and the military use the same runway, with the civil terminal on one side and the military base on the other side.

Athens (Glyfada / Hellenikon ?) somehow sticks in my memory.

From personal knowledge,
LFPV | VILLACOUBLAY VELIZY | LFPN | TOUSSUS LE NOBLE
is not a very good example, One is a big military base, the other is a small GA airfield, several miles away.

LFPZ | SAINT CYR L'ECOLE | LFPN | TOUSSUS LE NOBLE
ditto, they're small GA airfields miles apart.

EGDK | KEMBLE | EGBP | KEMBLE
sounds better... co-located civil and military.

CJ

MarkerInbound
9th Jul 2009, 01:20
KELP and KBIF are close enough, one shows up on the other's taxi chart.

A Comfy Chair
9th Jul 2009, 06:59
Chitose and New Chitose

eckhard
9th Jul 2009, 07:26
Brussels National EBBR with Melsbroek EBMB on the north side of 25R.

bookworm
9th Jul 2009, 07:27
I think hugel is really looking for co-located airfields, which happens when the civvies and the military use the same runway, with the civil terminal on one side and the military base on the other side.

I think hugel explained the background quite well. As someone who has developed software for plotting airports on a map, I can testify that all that matters is the proximity of the ARPs. aerolearner's Brescia example is a good one -- Treviso is the one that I remember because I wanted to display both airports on a map of the whole of Europe, on which scale 5 miles is just a few pixels.

bookworm
9th Jul 2009, 07:30
Brussels National EBBR with Melsbroek EBMB on the north side of 25R.

I didn't check Belgium but that's a particularly good example because they quote identical ARPs. At no scale would representations on a chart be separated.

Fitter2
9th Jul 2009, 09:28
If you had visited the Prague AeroExpo in May you would have found yourself at Prague Letnany airport LKLT, which is not quite co-located with Kbely airbase.

Airport Letnany - LKLT Prague (http://wikimapia.org/4228398/Airport-Letnany-LKLT)

Spooky 2
9th Jul 2009, 13:22
I think they are about 70 miles apart but have heard that there have been incidents where SNA and SAN have been forced into the FMS Init Ref page thus causing an obvious error.

SAN San Diego
SNA Santa Ana Oragnge County

A Comfy Chair
10th Jul 2009, 01:52
Hugel,

Chitose (Military, although sometimes used for Civil alternate ops I believe) and New Chitose (Civil) are located on the same airfield, and share the same terminal. They are RJCJ and RJCC.

They have different ARP's at
N42 47` 40.00 E141 39` 59.00
and
N42 46` 31.00 E141 41` 33.00

openNav :: RJCC - New Chitose Airport (http://www.opennav.com/airport/RJCC)

The google earth picture shows the two runways on the right as the Civil, and the ones on the left as the Military.

There are links to aerodrome charts on the page.

galaxy flyer
10th Jul 2009, 02:05
MarkerInbound and AComfyChair

Good ones, I should have known! DFW and ICT areas have numerous airports in close proximity, if not co-located.

GF