Taking the train instead

[Xeque]

From todays London Daily Telegraph:
Why fly when you can take the train?

Cost-cutting measures and ludicrous inefficiency have taken all the pleasure out of flying.

By Becky Pugh
Published: 5:00PM BST 07 Jul 2009

There was a time when I considered travelling by plane the last word in luxury. You arrived at the airport and handed over your luggage, tickets and passport to a coiffed and smiling airline representative. With her lacquered nails dancing across a keyboard, she printed you off a boarding pass and sent you on your merry way.

Then you'd go through to Departures, spend a fortune on glorious, oversized paperbacks and board the plane. Once in your seat, a bevy of attendants would cater for your every whim. They provided you with socks, eye-masks, blankets, pillows, earphones; you could have spent a weekend camping with all the equipment they laid on.

If your seat belt wasn't tight enough, they'd see to it. If you wanted a drink, they'd bring one. You could have what you pleased, and it came with a bag of roasted peanuts. The cheery cabin crew produced nattily packed meals as often as you could consume them. They were at your service at the click of a button, and their wares came free of charge.

OK, legroom was often a problem, even in the good old days, and the air con has always dried out your skin. But you were comfortable enough, and on balance the experience was a treat. Your holiday began at check-in.

Sadly, times have changed. Air travel is no longer a service; it is a challenge from start to finish. Fraught and faint with hunger – having been fobbed off with a paltry, and costly, sandwich in place of lunch – you arrive at your destination already dreading the journey back. Your holiday fund is drastically reduced because you've spent most of it on levies for which you were utterly unprepared. Machines, delays, hidden charges – everything conspires against you.

The simple explanation for this misery is, of course, that the aviation industry is deep in crisis. According to the International Air Transport Association (IATA), the world's major airlines saw combined losses of as much as £5.8bn last year. High fuel costs and low ticket sales are forcing companies to do all they can to keep profits up.

Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary seems to be the master of innovative ways to succeed. Earlier this year, he confessed that he is thinking of charging passengers £1 per trip to the loo. Safe in the knowledge that people are likely to wait until they arrive at the terminal instead, he also plans to cut down the number of conveniences on board from three to one – to make room for extra bodies. Another of his clever ploys is to ban checked-in luggage. Soon, you will have to carry your bags all the way to your gate, and across the runway to the plane, yourself.

This week, O'Leary announced that he has been talking to US plane manufacturer Boeing about designing an aircraft with standing room. So now even seats are a luxury. And if chairs are dispensable, surely human beings are, too. Why have any staff on board at all? Vending machines could serve tiny £5 bottles of plonk and bland, nutritionally balanced crackers as efficiently as any person.

Only joking… sort of. After all, it could become a reality if employees at British Airways go on strike, as around 2,000 are threatening to. Not surprisingly, they don't like the airline's plans to cut jobs and freeze pay. These new measures must be especially galling after the recent suggestion by BA chief executive, Willie Walsh, that staff consider working for free for a month – all for the cause of the company's "fight for survival".

Yes, it is a distinct lack of personnel that accounts for many of the hold-ups integral to travelling by plane. You get held up at check-in because you are no longer allowed contact with a person and the computer invariably fails to recognise your booking. You get held up at security for failing to put your lip balm in a special bag, because there was nobody around to give you one. You get held up at baggage reclaim because suitcases simply cannot make it from aircraft to terminal without human intervention.

Last Saturday, holidaymakers faced an eight-hour delay to their Thomas Cook flight to Menorca because the airline couldn't drum up an engineer to look at a mechanical problem on the plane any sooner. In the end, a qualified passenger stepped into the breach.

Please, for the love of God, spare me such frustration. I'm lucky not to have to fly regularly for work, and I have no advice for those that do. In my world, flights are for holidays – yet the pain they cause far outweighs the pleasure they yield. Call me feeble and unadventurous, but from now on you'll find me – where possible – on board the soothing, scenic and outmoded railway train.

I have already made my stand. On the occasions I visit the UK I have to fly but now it is Bangkok to Amsterdam and I take the train from there to St Pancras, London. It adds about 2½ hours to the journey but what a wonderful and relaxing conclusion to an 11 hour flight. I have no complaints about my Asian airline of choice but, at just under 6 foot and 66 years old, I find that 34" seat pitch is simply not sufficient for a long journey. And I am no longer prepared to put myself through the shame and degradation of the 'passenger handling' process at Heathrow.
As for UK internal flights - a visit to relatives in Cornwall can be achieved much quicker and usually much less expensively than an airline - particularly Ryanair - by booking a reserved seat on the train.

[TSR2]

There are obviously other reasons for you to fly from BKK to AMS then on by rail to London.

To me it makes no sense at all to fly 11 hours then opt to continue your journey for another two and a half hours (and the rest) by train when another 45 minutes on board an aircraft, which you clearly state that you have no complaints with, gets you closer to your final destination.

[Wycombe]

Xeque....to your last point, indeed so. I am taking the train from Reading to Penzance next month, price booked in advance with seat reservation £37 First Class! - not bad for a Saturday in August.

[crewmeal]

And what would the fare be using a LCC to NQY be I wonder?

[Lord Bracken]

I don't really understand this thread.

The reason air travel is so crap for the man in the street is that they are paying a pittance for it. The article fails to make the connection between this and "the airline industry is in deep crisis."

You pays yer money and takes your choice.

Once in your seat, a bevy of attendants would cater for your every whim. They provided you with socks, eye-masks, blankets, pillows, earphones; you could have spent a weekend camping with all the equipment they laid on.

If your seat belt wasn't tight enough, they'd see to it. If you wanted a drink, they'd bring one. You could have what you pleased, and it came with a bag of roasted peanuts. The cheery cabin crew produced nattily packed meals as often as you could consume them. They were at your service at the click of a button, and their wares came free of charge.

OK, legroom was often a problem, even in the good old days, and the air con has always dried out your skin. But you were comfortable enough, and on balance the experience was a treat. Your holiday began at check-in.

Remember, paying £400 to cross the Atlantic 20 years ago was a hell of a lot more expensive than paying £300 to cross it today.

The price of air travel has fallen dramatically but so has the quality (it's debatable whether it was as good as people remember it anyway, but that's another thread).

Personally, I find spending a little bit more money in order to gain status (frequent flier) on an airline is worth it. For example, on BA, if you get a Silver card you can
- allocate a seat before everyone else - I always manage to get the first row of Economy if travelling in that
- use Fast Track security - bit of a lottery at T5 sometimes, but most of the time it's a great benefit
- use the lounges at T5, free food, drink, free wi-fi.
- Board the aircraft early (again variable at T5).

I suppose if you want to go back to late 1980s, early 1990s standards of service, you'll have to start paying (inflation adjusted) fares from the same time.

[racedo]

There was a time when I considered travelling by plane the last word in luxury. You arrived at the airport and handed over your luggage, tickets and passport to a coiffed and smiling airline representative.

Ok when I got to this I realised she was copying from a Chick Lit book.

[ChrisGr31]

The airline industry is no different to any other. They have continually reduced the prices for a service and have done that by making more use of technology, cutting staff numbers etc. In reality like everyone else they have cut the quality.

The customer in the meantime complains about the cut in quality, but at the same time wants the lowest fare. You can't have both.

Mind you ironically as I was discussing with my brother the other day nowdays you can check-in online but when you get to the airport you discover you shouldn't have bnothered as the queue for check-in is shorter and moving faster than the baggage drop line!

[The SSK]

Or, to put it another way, when you fly, you pay for what you get.

When you take the train, the taxpayer is paying for what you get.

[Boeing 77W]

Call me feeble and unadventurous, but from now on you'll find me – where possible – on board the soothing, scenic and outmoded railway train.I'd hardly use these words to describe my numerous journeys standing, for several hours, on Cross Country Trains. Or the scene of a First Great Western train departing Paddington on a Friday night bound for the West Country.

If I want to go and visit friends in Leeds for the weekend I usually fly from Plymouth, the times work perfectly, I get picked up by friends as they leave work. Example booking for a weekend in August, up Friday and back Sunday:

Air Southwest (via Bristol)
Depart Plymouth:16:00
Arrive Leeds: 18:10

Depart Leeds: 19:10
Arrive Plymouth: 21:15
Journey time approx 2 hrs, total cost: £160

Cross Country Trains
Depart Plymouth: 12:21
Arrive Leeds: 18:04

Depart Leeds: 16:00
Arrive Plymouth: 21:52
Journey time approx 5hrs 45mins, total cost: £120 - booked in advance

Although it's an extra £40 (I appreciate this is a significant amount to some people) I'd rather fly. Spend an extra 6/7 hours in Leeds and not face the prospect of standing for 5 hours on the way home! My experience of seat reservations: :mad:

There are a number of journeys I do take by train, mainly because they're significantly cheaper and I don't mind the extra time it takes. However, on certain routes the plane will always win hands down for me!

[Wycombe]

Crewmeal said:

And what would the fare be using a LCC to NQY be I wonder?

Actually, I looked and for the day in question LGW-NQY with BE could be had for about 30 quid all in - which seems quite good (for me, not BE, would have expected yields to be a bit higher on an August Saturday!)

But I live near Reading and where I am going to in Kernow is near Penzance (ie, quite a way from NQY) so the train just made more sense. Door-to-door times would be not too different I suspect.

The Standard Class Fare was £27, by the way, I thought the extra tenner for the comfort of First Class was well worth it.

[Xeque]

Hi all,

Thanks for responses.

My rationale:

Take the trip from London to Cornwall. To make it easy I am going to count 'London' as a departure point from any mainline station. I am also going to take Truro as my destination.

By plane from Stansted

Liverpool Street station to Stansted (Stansted Express) - 45 minutes
Check-in, security clearance, boarding - 60 minutes
Flight time to Newquay (block to block) - 80 minutes
Baggage claim at Newquay - 20 minutes
Taxi to Truro (cost £35 the last time I did it) - 40 minutes
TOTAL TIME: - 4 hours 5 minutes

The time is about the same for Air Southwest out of Gatwick. I know they land at Plymouth but Gatwick is closer to the West Country so the additional time gets canceled out.

By train from Paddington

The train from Paddington to Truro takes 4 hours 25 minutes. (You can easily loose that extra 20 minutes in a delayed pushback or take-off queue at Stansted). Here I will also amend my original statement that it is 'much quicker' - it isn't but not by a big margin.

I'm not really worried about the fares. With a bit of forward planning you can get to within £5-£10 or even better than the best fare that MOL can come up with. Anyway, I am more interested in the comfort and lack of hassle.

You might like to do some comparisons with a journey from London to (say) Glasgow.

With regard to my trips from Bangkok to London (now much reduced since I retired); I would love to continue going through Heathrow but the way the airport is operated now makes the experience so awful that I am very happy to use Schiphol instead where the basics of politeness, real passenger service and operating efficiency come naturally.

The flight time difference between BKK/LHR and BKK/AMS is 30 minutes. The Thales train from Schiphol to Brussels and the Eurosatar from there to London St Pancras is 4 ½ hours. Ok, so that looks like 4 hours added but Schiphol immigration and baggage pickup is streets ahead of Heathrow in terms of speed and efficiency. The cross-over time between trains at Brussels is a couple of minutes and the Eurostar takes me right into London. I do not have to spend an additional 60 minutes in a train, bus or taxi to get there from the airport.

Again, very competitive train fares can be found if you book in advance so the difference in cost is marginal.

What I really love about the train from Schiphol is that I can really relax and unwind after the flight. I can stretch my legs, walk around, get a really good meal at a proper table and enjoy the view through the windows.

[RB311]

Regarding weekend rail journeys. Have you checked whether "engineering" work, (used to be called track maintenance) is being carried out. I know of a friend who did exactly what you did, and found that the line was closed between Tiverton Parkway and Plymouth. This entailed a 45 minute "transfer" from train to bus and a 2 and a half hour bus journey as it had to go to Exeter, Teignmouth, Newton Abbot, and Totnes to drop pax off.

And, as a previous poster also mentioned, the huge subsidies from government make it possible only.. No private company would consider, nor get the backing to run a railway purely as a private enterprise.

In addition...

The time comparison between London and Penzance is fine, if, of course you live in London. For someone like myself, I would have to get to Paddington or Reading first, adding at least an hour onto the journey not to mention the additional costs of tickets/petrol/ etc...

Unfortunately, successive governements, Dr Beeching, and of course, the unions have done for the railways ever being a realistic transport alternative in this country.

Oh, and don't get me started on how much more "green" high speed rail links are....

[LH2]

If I have to go to the UK, generally I have no problems flying into it, as long as it's not one of the London airports involved. After all, once arrived, all that can happen is they throw me out of the airport for being a prick so no problems there :}

However, when it comes to escap... err, leaving the country, I have to choose between a two to three hours flight for about £30.- or a six to nine hour train ride for about £300. Well, there is no question, the train wins hands down every time :ok:

[MUFC_fan]

I thinks it is down to what suits who. I would choose flying if the difference was competitive as I love to fly, if the train/car was a clear winner then I would choose on of those respective options.

However, saying that ALL airports have become a challenge and it is always a chore to fly is not always true.

He clearly hasn't flown SQ or got a BA black card!:ok:

[The SSK]

So, Xeque, if you're flying, you get to the airport 60 minutes before departure.

If you're taking the train you get to the station ... 0 minutes before departure.

That's a trick the railways have always pulled in making time comparisons. Eurostar omits to mention that there is a statutory - and enforced - 30-minute check in time.

[IB4138]

Quite right SSK.

Even on other rail services in the UK, doors close 1 minute before departure.

If you are unfortunate enough for your train to be on platforms 13 or 14 at Manchester Piccadilly it's a long walk, although with travelators, when working and a space they jokingly refer to as a lounge, with their "wait in lounge" message before you decend the stairs to these platforms to the scrum and hopefully board the correct train.

[Xeque]

I said that the journey started from any mainline London station. The time started from the trains departure.
If you are connecting through Brussels you walk across the platform. I think there was a 5-6 minute wait before the Eurostar departed.
Going back to Thailand I checked in at St Pancras about 40 minutes before. I also left some extra time at Schiphol in case of delays.

[ConstantFlyer]

This train vs. plane debate is wearisome. The vast majority of journeys begin and end at either a home, a hotel or a workplace, not a city centre railway station or an airport.

[Michael SWS]

If you are connecting through Brussels you walk across the platform... The cross-over time between trains at Brussels is a couple of minutesNo, you don't, and no, it isn't. The Eurostar terminal in Brussels is quite separate from the rest of the station and you cannot simply "walk across the platform" in "a couple of minutes". When transferring from Thalys to Eurostar you have to go through the same check-in, security and UK immigration formalities as passengers commencing their journey in Brussels, with a recommended minimum connection time of 40 minutes.

Even though I also prefer rail travel to flying, the lengths you claim to go to to avoid flying into London sound extreme, to say the least.

[WHBM]

Seem to be a number of inaccuracies here.

There is no train from Amsterdam to London, and unlikely there will ever be. This is due to the over-zealous government security requirements (now where have we heard that before) on Eurostar which so inflates the cost of running a station with Eurostar services that they just can't justify expanding beyond the present London/Paris/Brussels setup.

If you go from Amsterdam via Brussels you have all the re-check in palaver onto a second non-integrated rail sevice at Brussels which requires you to turn up more than 30 minutes ahead - they just close the gates at this time. Eurostar service to Brussels has been a financial disappointment to them, so intervals before the next one if you miss it are now down to every 2-3 hours.

For those who speak about travel in Britain at peak weekends with seat reservations, you have presumably never experienced that when things get a bit disrupted the railway companies just say "no time to organise the reservation numbers, sit wherever there's a seat". Except there probably aren't any left by this time. Several hours standing ? Even the worst LCC doesn't do that.

If you get put off onto a bus (as mentioned above), don't expect to have a reserved seat on the train at the other end of the blockage.

All this stuff about quoting the railway timetable duration as the journey time. We don't expect an air journey door-to-door to take the aircraft block time, same is true for the railway. This only really applies to car travel.

Of course if you are going to Truro (on the main line, no airport) rail has an advantage. If you are going to Newquay (not on main line, has an airport) the reverse applies.

[Baltasound]

1) There will be a direct train to Amsterdam within 3 years, as there will be direct trains to Germany.
2) As far as I am aware the airline industry has benefitted from large dollops of taxpayers cash in the past which has been conveniently written off, and still does as it's passengers use taxpayer funded forms of transport (i.e. roads and railways) to get to the respective terminals. Airtrack and Heathrow Express also (and will) benefit from taxpayer funded facilities and I use a taxpayer funded service when I fly to Sumburgh. And the airlines still benefit from taxpayer funded services now (see NATS).
3) Funnily enough I was under the impression that the Train Operators were private companies who responded to the whims of the market (allegedly).
4) But a fair and valid comparison is made -When I travel to Scotland via Southampton, I would rather be on a delayed plane then a delayed train.

[Peter47]

I often think that the railways are mis-identifying the market they are competing with. London to Amsterdam in 5hrs 15 min - thats at least three hours longer than flying and rather puts a damper on a long weekend.

For short journeys air has a high fixed cost and low marginal costs. It doesn't cost an airline much more to fly from MAN - CDG as LHR - CDG (actually given the time it takes to taxi at LHR probably very little more).

Railways in the UK are great for getting to, from and around London but not much good for much else (some local regional journeys excepted). You are never going to compete with air from Plymouth to Edinburgh - even if you have to change at BHX.

It doesn't have to be like that. To see what I mean go to Switzerland. You can get from almost anywhere to anywhere effectively by train. Think of Zurich main station as the ATL of the Swiss rail network.

No, rail is competing with the car and to compete effectively it needs an integrated network. It just thinks that it is competing in the main with aviation.

As a matter of interest there is a group called the Swiss Railway Society that organises day trips by easyJet to GVA or ZRH with their user friendly rail stations where they trainspot for the day. Not quite my cup of tea but think about it, you couldn't do it without the plane but wouldn't do it without the train.

Anyway thats your two pennys worth from someone who wants to see a vastly improved rail network but thinks that building high speed lines is not the best way to spend limited funds.

[WallyWumpus]

I prefer trains to flying, and I am a pilot!

I would, however, respectfully question the economy of time in travelling Schiphol to London after a flight from the far east. It is 2hrs45 from AMS to Brussels south, followed by a 30 minute check-in for Eurostar, and then 2hrs to St Pancreas. All in all 5hrs15mins for a journey that takes 45 mins by air, followed by the same to get through LHR.

As romantic a traveller as I am, that does not add up.......

Wally.

[Bealzebub]

Not a great fan of trains, but this last winter I had a dozen occassions to have to travel from Gatwick to Paris Orly on company business. Initially I took the company option and towards the end opted to self position on the Eurostar. Here is how the two compared:

On price the airfare was an average of £200 r/t by air. The Eurostar with a bit of flexibility was around £150 r/t leisure select (first class.) Both fares had advance booking requirements, and neither was flexible.

The journey by air, involved a taxi ride to LHR (no flights to Paris from LGW) on average 1 hour. Check-in was 2 hours in advance of ETD. Flight was 75 minutes blocks to blocks. Passport/luggage another 45 minutes. Wait of 30 minutes on average for coach to ORY 1.5 hours (if you struck lucky with the traffic). Total non delayed travelling time 7 hours. By train 50 minutes to St Pancras for a 1 hour check-in time. 2hours and 15 minutes to Gare du Nord. 1 hour (including ticket purchase time) on the RER subway train from Gare du Nord to Orly. Total time 5 hours 10 minutes.

The experience. By air involved a car journey in stop/start traffic around the M25 admiring the signs displaying 50, and wondering if that was in fact the highest recorded speed the cameras had witnessed that day? A shuffling queue at heathrow to deposit by mildy overweight suitcase on a scale and hoping that I wouldn't be punished by way of fine, or redeployment to a distant customer service desk for the transgression. Another long queue to endure the privilige of removing various parts of innocuous clothing, and still having my fillings set of the arch metal detector. Put aside all thoughts of financial acumen, and purchase a sandwhich and coffee for the thick end of £10. Eventually join another queue to board the flight, and queue to sit down. Once airborne receive some strangely branded, salty and otherwise bland bag of something that looked like a pretzel. Have a small glass of highly processed "orange juice". Realize that without some form of gastric asbestos lining, I would not be able to consume the superheated cup of proferred coffee, before the cleanup shift started 81 seconds after the initial serving. Land and taxi across 3 small countries to the gate. Walk across another small country to join the snaking immigartion line occupied by a collective assortment of travellers from various nations, who not only find queue a difficult spelling, but also an entirely alien concept. Breath a sigh of relief as my curiously battered and injured suitcase did at least arrive on the carousel. Retrace my airside ambulatory adventure landside, to the bus pick up point. Watch the drizzle for 30 minutes until the bus arrived. Pay the driver the equivalent of £18 for the stop/start (but mainly stop) trip around Le Emm 25 or whatever they called it. Eventually arriving at Orly hungry and tired.

By train, there was only ever a maximum wait of 15 minutes for the commuter train to St Pancras, No luxury, but there was time to read a newspaper before arriving at St Pancras. Up the escalators and through the security and passport checks with never more than a few minutes wait. Your luggage, you lug, so it never leaves your sight, and if it is overweight that is your problem, no one else cares. Time for a coffee and quick free WiFi session before boarding the comfy Eurostar train, and taking up your pre-booked seat of choice. Nice wide single or Duo seat with seat side powerpoint and plenty of legroom. Your suitcase is in a rack at the end of the carriage never far from your sight. Train pulls out of station and smoothly glides across Kent, through the tunnel, and zips across the French countryside as it races to Paris. You are served glasses of champagne or another tipple of choice, and a 3 course meal with tablecloth and metal cutlery. By the time your glass has been refreshed a couple of times and the last vestiges of coffee and chocolates are being cleared away, you notice CDG airport sliding past the outside panorama. Fifteen minutes later you arrive at Gare du nord. The 9 euro underground journey to Orly can be a bit of a faff with a suitcase, but nobody minds, and it is at least something to sit on if you have the misfortune to arrive during rush hour.
Arrive at Orly, with 2 hours to freshen up before your collegues who left the same time you did using option 1, arrive!

Plane, longer, cramped, queue, queue, queue, frustrating, wait, expensive, paupers catering, inconvenient, queue, queue, queue.

Train, relaxed, space, fast, comfortable, quicker journey time, little or no Queueing, food and drink in comfort, quiet.

It is a no brainer!