20 Year Reunion

[blue belly]

It's approaching that day in August 1989 again and I was wondering if any of those involved were going to get together? If so, pls let me know when and where (as I am in Europe, I'll try to make appropriate plans).

I was not sure if I should have made the title "remembrance" or "reunion" or perhaps someone out there has a better idea?

Wishing all my fellow colleagues who stood by their principles back then all the best.

[RHLMcG]

For those of us who were involved it would be rather fine to catch up on this significant occasion.

Perhaps those who might be interested could indicate so and we could work up RVs in a number of places.

[Buster Hyman]

I think you'll need to define "interested" RHLMcG. And even if you do, good luck moderating anything to do with 89!!!:eek:

[Lookleft]

In 1966, England and West Germany played in the final of the soccer World Cup. England won and I don't think that it was just because it was a good sporting contest that they celebrated so hard. If war is politics by another means then sport is war by another means.

So why is the 20th anniversary of "The Dispute" not celebrated with a masters game of Rugby or Aussie Rules or both? It might be a good opportunity to let both sides have "one more go" before age wearies them.

[tail wheel]

This thread is “on probation”. History will not be debated or re-written!

:=

For the new comers, the events of 20 years ago have been a somewhat "restricted" subject on PPRuNe for some years due to the passion of a few.

The thread may be used to organize a reunion for those interested. That is all.

And if you are not or were not involved and don’t wish to attend a reunion, please refrain from posting.

If the thread drifts towards the old animosities and vexatious debates of the past, it will be treated like any other thread and closed.

Tail Wheel

[Captain Sherm]

Yes it should be the occasion for a get-together. And no small part of that will be a time for remembrance of staunch friends who folded wings forever in that time.

On the afternoon of Sunday 23rd August there'll be one such get together/BBQ in Gisborne (Vic). All welcome. PM me for details

[Zapatas Blood]

OK. There appears to be some bias when it comes to which posts will be deleted and which wont.

I will try again.

I have arranged to meet up for some beers with mates to celebrate our decision made 20 years ago.

Feel free to PM if you are interested (a lot already have)

Enjoy.

Is this ok moderator? Tame enough?

[Buster Hyman]

Perhaps there should also be one for the thousands of Groundstaff & HO staff that were really put under the pump during this time? Gee, it may even be neutral....


(Ok...preparing for either the Incoming or the delete switch...) ;)

[RHLMcG]

Upon reflection, clearly there were three groups -

(a) those who were prepared to lose their jobs over a point of honour. We will enjoy a convivial with like-minded pilots from that time.

(b) those who were in another pilot camp. They are, of course, welcome to celebrate their decisions at the time, even though such decisions conflicted with those taken by pilots in (a). I have no antipathy toward Zapatas Blood and his colleagues - life is too short to get ulcers over such matters - albeit that I will choose not to drink with them then, now, and always.

(c) those in other disciplines within the airlines, and the general public, who were subjected to a great amount of disinformation and suffered, quite needlessly and painfully, while a number of combatant egos (on both sides of the table - management/government and the AFAP) would not back down when that became a sensible option early in the battle. It would be entirely appropriate for the non-crew airline people to reflect on their trials at the time and what they may have done subsequently. I think that most, and possibly all, of the pilot group at (a) felt, and still feel, strongly over the iniquities dealt you as collateral elements of the battle.

Only too happy to have a beer with Buster and his colleagues.

I can only hope that, were we all to have our time over, things would have been very different. However, the nature of life is that we make decisions, based often on imperfect information, and then have to live with whatever consequences our decisions may entail.

Like so many, in all three camps, I have lost in some areas of the fallout, both professionally and personally. However, I have done many interesting things which I would not otherwise have done and, looking back on the past 20 years, I sleep well at night.

[Buster Hyman]

It is a pity that this caused such a fierce divide. Being firmly in the (c) camp, I worked with parties from both sides and think I could attend the (a) & (b) partys. Some might recall that Kaptin M & I (where is he btw?) had some heated exchanges but, over time, agreed to disagree and even agreed on some points. It can be done.

However, always remembering I was not directly affected (just so my comments can be put in context). Hopefully, most from the (a) & (b) camps are in a better place now than they were 20 years ago & as RHLMcG said, life's too short.

(Anyway, enough from me. Probably should have a Non Crew thread for all the other stories. It was, without doubt, a fascinating time for us..) :ok:

[RHLMcG]

It is a pity that this caused such a fierce divide.

That is an understatement if ever I have read one.

However, the management/government side of the table milked the divide and conquer strategy for all it was worth and the collective pilot groups - we must acknowledge some unpleasant truths and personal inadequacies about many pilots the world over - were just too short sighted to see what was going on. A bit more in the way of rational assessment and judgement at the time and perhaps some may have been able to interrupt the dreadful goings on - all history now, unfortunately.

worked with parties from both sides

As have I on several occasions since the dispute. Working amicably with the other pilot side is not a problem - many are just as reasonable and rational as they were prior to the dispute - I just choose not to socialise with them.

Kaptin M

typifies those who tend to extremis, regardless of whichever camp one looks at. However, like you, I have no difficulty interacting with him, albeit it is quite some time since I last saw him.

Hopefully, most from the (a) & (b) camps are in a better place now than they were 20 years ago

Some have done very well, others managed, yet others have gone downhill, and some are no longer with us. However, regardless of the side with which the pilots threw in their individual lots, they were directly involved in the dispute and must necessarily wear the outcomes, good, bad or indifferent.

The third party collateral damage to other airline staff and the country generally, however, was plain inexcusable and a disgraceful behaviour by a government which sought to win regardless of the overall cost to whomever.

For me, I wish it had never happened - however, given the circumstances, my action was the only path available to me with which I could face my reflection in the mirror of a morning thereafter.

Whether I was stupid (or whatever term you might like to apply) or not - well, I guess, that is a moot point. Either way, I sleep well at night even though I might have desired a different career pathway over the past 20 years.

[tail wheel]

Give it a rest, eh?

:{ :{

[Balthazar_777]

Hey tail wheel,

Why are you so patronising and dismissive.

I assumed you were not involved, I wasn't, but it would seem to me that only someone with an agenda could feign such dispassion.

Whatever your opinion, 1989 was a watershed event, where the government used the military to alleviate an industrial situation. the silver bodgie, a unionist supreme, sold his soul. Aviation and Australia is no better off.

I have flown with guys from both sides of the dispute, and they all hurt. Some more than others.

It is appropriate that we learn from this. And purge the Oldmeadows legacy.

Sorry if this inflames, but i think it was going swellingly until the you made your comment.

Lets learn from our mistakes.

[tail wheel]

I'll try once more. Yes, I was involved, but on neither "side". I can look back dispassionately, without bias and see strategic mistakes by all involved. I feel for all those families affected at Ansett, TAA, IPEC etc and the traveling public who were seriously disadvantaged.

I have no personal opinion on whether any participant was right or wrong; each participant acted in accordance with their own decision, conscience and morals and paid the price of that decision.

Nothing - no amount of debate will ever change history. The world has moved on. The airlines involved no longer exist.

On a number of occasions the events of '89 have created serious problems in the management of PPRuNe, including serious threats of legal action.

Those involved may use this thread to organise reunions if they wish, however we simply are not going to again re-hash and debate history.

Tail Wheel

[RHLMcG]

Give it a rest, eh?

Why are you so patronising and dismissive

It appears to me that Tail Wheel is managing this thread quite objectively by removing blatantly stupid/inflammatory posts and endeavouring to keep those remaining on a low key path. Salut !

If we collectively play sensibly then we might just be successful in using this thread as a convenient vehicle for organising a few reunions - regardless of which side of the fence the people involved might be.

After 20 years direct animosities ought to have evaporated if we are rational people.

[tail wheel]

Indeed, you are correct. Thank you for your understanding and support. :ok:

So far eleven posts have been removed by myself and the other Moderators as they were inflamatory, inappropriate, plain stupid or bear no relevence to organisation of reunions. So far no one has been denied access to this thread, but if the vexatious or stupid posts are repeated, that may occur as an alternate to closing or removing the thread.

We would prefer not to exclude anyone from accessing this thread and would prefer the thread to remain open. That is not censorship or patronising - it is simply common sense!

We would appreciate assistance in objectively managing this thread, to successfully organise reunions for those interested.

Tail Wheel