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350Z
2nd Jul 2009, 11:25
First of all a quick warning- This post contains a large amount of possibly incorrect, negative and or unbalanced economic data/viewpoints with a dose of sarcasm and spelling mistakes in places.

Depression, no not the global economic type, the mental state of mind. It's all to easy to read the doom and gloom on here, in the broadsheets and see it on the TV. This constant feed of bad news takes its toll on young twenty somethings who thought the world was their oyster and that they could achieve anything they set their minds to. Incidentally, this was me and now I feel depressed!

Unfortunately for many these dreams have been shattered. After years spent at school, university/ flight training or otherwise they now realise that there is NO light at the end of the tunnel. Previous generations and governments have ruined any chance of prospering due to a crippled global economy.

The UK government sat back, got fat and spent a great deal during the 'good times', only to be left in ruins once the inevitable bursting of the bubble occurred. It was clearly very irresponsible of the people in power to let the house price bubble and lending levels get to the heights they did, after all, stamp duty was a nice little earner for them and we were happy because we all felt rich thanks to the vast amount of equity built up (and subsequently drawn on and spent). Oh no wait, hold on a second, I went to university and graduated with no job and zero opportunity of getting on the housing ladder thanks to ridiculous prices often 6+ times annual earnings.

Gordon Brown said he would end boom and bust- the idiot was wrong! VERY wrong. In addition, he has made numerous other cock ups from selling our gold at historical lows (loosing £3bn- pocket change really) to the pointless decision of cutting VAT which resulted in a £12.4bn black hole! Good work, he'll probably fix that by raising it to 20%

Ok so I've rambled on long enough, let me bullet point the main issues and finish making my point.
UK economy shrank by 2.4 per cent in the first quarter at the fastest rate in more than 50 years and far worse than expected.
According to the ONS, year on year, GDP had fallen 4.9 per cent, the biggest drop on record.
OECD is also predicting that UK unemployment will top 3 million over the next 12 months taking the unemployment rate to 11.2%
1 million 16-24 yr olds NEETs (Not in Education, Employment or Training) ME.
Vast public debt which has been racked up, currently £750.3 billion, equivalent to 52.0 per cent of GDP (end Dec08) However, this is estimated to reach £1.2 trillion by 2012, a massive 79% of GDP!
Taxation- watch it rocket!...Don't even get me started on MP's expenses, pension deficits, oil/ fuel prices etc.

UK PLC is not in a good position, If I had family overseas I would be out of here for the next decade! All it will take is a ratings downgrade from S&P for the world to truly realise how completely shot our finances are. Bottom line, Britain is buggered! Despite recent troubles China will probably make a return to 10% annual GDP growth during the next few years; think I might look into learning Mandarin!

I guess things could have been different for me. Some of my friends that didn't go to university have worked their way up in decent bluechip companies, achieving a half decent salary (£30k) and bought houses. At least I didn't buy at the top and watch my property tumble in value, same goes for stocks and shares- no money no investments, no 30%+ falls in portfolio values.

After all of this, I guess the point I'm trying to make is; the global economy is crippled, UK's even more so. However, there is sweet FA we can do to change this, it is not the end of the world and the sun is still shining! I will continue to read the broadsheets every day but will not let the persistent doom and gloom get me down! Life is what you make it and despite the really poor economic environment I am happy to have my health and happiness.

Just a quick note regarding the airline industry and integrated flight training; it's wrecked and don't do it! There are NO jobs with airlines, they are cutting capacity quicker than anything, there is a huge pilot surplus especially now that it's possible to work longer before retiring. Flight training will financial and mentally cripple you! Debt is evil and will ruin your life. Get a normal job (if you can), live at home, save your pennies and put it into a pension so you can afford Sky tv when you are old and wrinkled ;-)

Oh and to those that will post figures relating to positive news and a possible economic recovery; don't be silly, happy talk will not turn things around!

Pprune economist and spelling/grammar police, do your worst. In all seriousness though, I went to a crap comprehensive school (a whole new topic in itself) so any tips on grammar would be great, only thing I got taught was 'I' before 'E' accept after 'C'.

I'm still smiling. Sorry if I over did the bold!

disco87
2nd Jul 2009, 11:45
I'm sure thats help to lift some people out of their depression

2 Whites 2 Reds
2nd Jul 2009, 11:55
Wow.....that was intense reading!

Oh and to those that will post figures relating to positive news and a possible economic recovery; don't be silly, happy talk will not turn things around!


Yeah you're right, the world is coming to an end so we best all go hide in the bunker for the next decade then ay?!?! :ugh:

350Z it would seem your own dreams sadly haven't materialised 350Z and if that is the case then I'm very sorry to hear that. Honestly I am.

However.......being depressed and unhappy is one thing but please don't presume that we're all in the same state. You say you're happy but if you were would you really feel the urge to come on hear and spout all this nonsense about depression, evil debt ruining our lives and being financially and mentally crippled???? I think not. I think that the guys and girls on here are well able to see the economy for what it is right now, and infact don't need yet another person ramming the blindingly obvious down their throats!

I well know and agree with all the things you said about the UK Government, they're a joke and Greedy Gordie wants shooting, quick!

However, similar to the afore mentioned happy thoughts, whinging and whining about it isn't going to make things better either! The need for making sensible, informed, realistic and mature decisions regarding training has never been more crucial. But that's all it is. I'm in a large amount of debt from training but don't feel mentally or finacially crippled. I've now chosen to put my training on hold for a while and go back to work so that I can afford the repayments and do my IR at a time which will give me the least rust when recruitment starts again.

I've adopted my own (probably not unique) approach to handling the pressures of flight training and financial responsibility in times of economic poo, here goes..........some day long into the future when I'm sitting there in the cruise and number 1 engine bursts into flames what am I going to do......

A) Panic, scream and whinge that my day has turned to **** and all is lost???

OR

B) Calmly, sensibly and briskly assess and deal with the situation???

Maybe a personal choice but I'll stick my neck out and say that in my book any pilot should be thinking option B. So if that's that way I would approach an airborne dilemma, why not approach the one on the ground in the same way???

Just my 2 penneth worth anyway. I don't man this to sound as a battering 350Z....but whilst the economy is **** you've still got you're health and things WILL improve sooner or later.

Have a great afternoon all.

2W2R :ok:

350Z
2nd Jul 2009, 12:16
Yeah you're right, the world is coming to an end so we best all go hide in the bunker for the next decade then ay?!?! :ugh:
I did actually feel this way at one point! WWW made me buy a shotgun, some beans and dig a whole in the garden! :ooh:

2W2R, my original expectations were very high; I actually thought I was going to walk into a grad job in the city earning £30k straight from uni! My life has taken some unexpected turns in the last year and a half, I am in fact going to start flight training before the end of the year :eek: I expect to graduate into a market with few, if any, job opportunities! (no change there then) However, you have to start somewhere and I have re-adjusted my goals and decided to think long term!

I am glad that you are managing your training and finances appropriately. It seems you have a good mental outlook, I am somewhat pessimistic by nature unfortunately and I seriously over think everything! It's all about being happy now!

Have you ever thought that it is in fact in all of our interests to discourage potential flight training candidates and bad mouth the airline pilot profession? I for one truly believe the job isn't what it was and that training now or any time soon is one BIG expensive mistake!! :ok:

...Sorry for spouting this nonsense ;)

flying_highover
2nd Jul 2009, 12:34
I think you're being a bit melodramatic.

Things are bad but if you step back and look at the big picture it's more normal than you may think. Things got out of hand, prices have to come down. It was unsustainable. But the cycle goes round and things will pick up.

It's very easy to look at trends, assume they will continue as such and then look at one's own personal aspirations and become very depressed.

If you look at how prices have dropped and how wages have either stayed the same or dropped you'll probably find the price of goods have fallen further. That's good. It means more spending power. Cold comfort to those that have no jobs but for recovery it's necessary. Politicians and business leaders aren't sitting on their laurels. They are adjusting the system that will enable growth.

You say there's a surplus of pilots. There's a surplus of everything. I bumped into a recently qualified lawyer I know working in a bar.

You sound like a man that needs to go with the flow a little more. You'll look back in years and regret getting so strung up over this. Have sex, get drunk and go surfing. It'll give you a more balanced view of things...

2 Whites 2 Reds
2nd Jul 2009, 12:34
I did actually feel this way at one point! WWW made me buy a shotgun, some beans and dig a whole in the garden! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/icon25.gif



Hope that's a joke....otherwise WWW has got some explaining to do!!! :)

When I started training I had just left a very nice and lucrative Accountancy based role so am all to familiar with looking at things, especially anything with money involved, with a very pesimistic and critical perspective. Always assume the worst as one of my lecturers used to say!!!

I do agree that being happy is what its all about, we could all go off and earn large sums of money in other jobs but we picked this one to invest in with the end goal of being happy in what we do.

The job isn't what it once was from what I've seen in the dramatic decline in T's and C's over recent years, but it still beats sitting in an office any day! Also, I fail to see how it's in our interests to bad mouth the a profession we love and discourage new blood from entering the industry. It may mean less pilot's train and thus the pilot's that do can expect better T's and C's but that just make the whole profession look like a collection of arseholes frankly. And that's not something I'm prepared to sign up for.

Training now is perhaps somewhat less than ideal, but I'm stuck with it, I started the process in mid 2007 at which point things were still faily dandy, albeit with signs of a storm on the horizon. I chose to go for it and am thus now nearly finished ut with little chance of a job. A big expensive mistake......No. I've made an investment in my future. If the fruits of my work and money don't grow over night then so be it, but sooner or later they will and that's what I'm focuissing on. In the mean time the hurdle of staying current and indeed financially solvent is just another challenge which I'll have to face and deal with even though it is definitely one which I would rather not have to. Hence my analogy to an engine fire in flight earlier on. Now hopefully you can see my point and the relevance.

2W2R :ok:

jonnyhock
2nd Jul 2009, 12:37
Dear god, here's the Samaritans number 08457 90 90 90.

DONT DO IT! you're a young man and have your whole life ahead of you!!!

350Z
2nd Jul 2009, 13:26
DONT DO IT! you're a young man and have your whole life ahead of you!!! What, start flight training? You mean I shouldn't be writing this check for OAA APPFO? ;)

Hope that's a joke....otherwise WWW has got some explaining to do!!! :)lol

I fail to see how it's in our interests to bad mouth the a profession we love and discourage new blood from entering the industryDon't you want a job? I was merely poking fun at the possible agendas of some dooms dayers :oh: ;)

I started the process in mid 2007As did my brother!

2W2R, I have to say some of my comments have been misinterpreted but I do love your attitude! Good luck for the future :) (no sarcasm)

Flighing Highover

I think you're being a bit melodramaticDo I get a :D? Thanks lol

Politicians and business leaders aren't sitting on their laurelsNo you're right, they are sitting on their rich fat backsides wondering where it all went wrong and trying to work out how to dig themselves out of the mess they made and make more money from us!

Have sex, get drunk and go surfingBest. Advice. Ever! Really could do with a surf!! (Used to live in Cornwall, man I miss that overcrowded tourist trap lol)

flying_highover
2nd Jul 2009, 13:42
Used to live in Cornwall, man I miss that overcrowded tourist trap lol

This exemplifies your attitude problem.

Glass half empty: overcrowded, noisy, dirty

Glass half full: more babes in bikinis(weather depedent of course), good craic, better atmosphere

Chill out fella... Live the life...

clanger32
2nd Jul 2009, 14:44
350Z,
Much of what you say is actually pretty much 100% in accordance with my own views.
However, the bit where I got pissed off, is this:



Just a quick note regarding the airline industry and integrated flight training; it's wrecked and don't do it! There are NO jobs with airlines, they are cutting capacity quicker than anything, there is a huge pilot surplus especially now that it's possible to work longer before retiring. Flight training will financial and mentally cripple you



Please explain, given - by your own admission - you haven't ever had a proper job, you aren't finished - or even IN - flight training yet and you haven't had any real world experience of life under any other government than the current labour monkey shop, precisely why your opinion should be taken even remotely seriously?

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't say you're entirely incorrect, but half the reason we're in this mess is because people have acted on advice from people that don't have any basis to make the assertions they do. Be very careful offering expertise in anything, when you have no expertise to offer...

JB007
2nd Jul 2009, 15:02
WWW made me buy a shotgun and dig a hole in the garden!

Can I pull the trigger then?!?

350Z
2nd Jul 2009, 15:16
However, the bit where I got pissed offSorry if I pissed you off, perhaps you missed the disclaimer at the top of my first post? Some of my original post was FACT, some my personal OPINION and the rest playful SARCASM...perhaps I was too subtle.

My short and sweet paragraph regarding industry and training was my way of summarising the numerous discussions in the '...upturn upon us' thread. I am well aware of industry issues, having read all of IATA's reports, and the topic of integrated training and it's cost's is well documented. My statement was simply how many dooms dayers call it. Notice how I just chucked it in at the end of my post and note the comments regarding evil debt, normal job and a pension so you could just afford Sky when you retire. I am pessimistic but regardless of everything I am going to actually start integrated training soon! :eek: I would rather take the risk, train now, find a way to survive after graduating and work my way into the industry when growth returns.

I like WWW and co schooling wannabes, telling them they have no chance because it ultimately reduces competition. I'm also conscious that property values have dropped (less equity), savings are low, banks aren't keen to lend and consequently less people can afford to train. Once again, this reduces competition. It could also be argued that more people will undertake modular training to reduce costs and that this *could* possibly give those brave/rich/stupid ones that paid out for integrated, an edge. :oh:

given - by your own admission - you haven't ever had a proper jobI'll stop you there, I worked in shipping for a year. Office life sucks, fact. Why do you think I want to be a pilot lol.

/offering my expertise ;)

JB- Go for it, so long as I get my last meal of beans on toast! lol

Artie Fufkin
2nd Jul 2009, 16:41
What a load of old tosh!

"Dreams shattered" ?? "No light at the end of the tunnel" ?? "ruined any chance of prospering..." ??

1. There's a recession on.

2. There are currently no jobs

3. Give it a few years there will be a recruitment bonanza.


Get a job in another industry until we see the inevitable recovery in the pilot job market. Then go train as a pilot. Then get the job you love.

Those saying that things will never improve sound as silly as those who said it would never go bad.

Wee Weasley Welshman
2nd Jul 2009, 18:52
If you'd said I would have lent you one of my shotguns and I've also got a massive hole in my back yard you could have had the use of..

(That was a joke btw)

WWW

helimutt
3rd Jul 2009, 07:17
and to add insult to injury, go and take a look at the USA's latest financial papers. Check out the oil prices and latest unemployment figures. The only thing good that I can see is that the dollar will strengthen again. Or you could buy gold?