A Return to Rates?

[ALM In Waiting]

Hi,
Sorry if this has been done to death on another thread, but rumours are rife at LYE that BZNs Sqns are back on rates and that we will also be from 1st July. The imprest office here denies everything however. Can anyone on 101, 216, or 99 confirm these rumours?

Thanks.

[Door Slider]

ALM,

Not at Brize but when I was on an overseas exercise a couple of months ago we were issued old school rates. I'm surprised that the rotary fleet would be ahead of the fixed wing guys on this matter!

[ALM In Waiting]

Thanks for the info, maybe its a step in the right direction. Have rotary crews previously been on the JPA actuals system?

[Whenurhappy]

Horses @rse! The clue is in the name Joint Personnel Administration. The Services cannot elect to wiggle the rules without Joint approval; moreover JPA cannot be altered to reflect 'local' arrangements'. We can debate all day about the benefits and cahllenges of JPA, but it's here, and it's staying!

[minigundiplomat]

I'd love to worry about sh1t like this.

[OS82]

It's been said before in similar threads, any financial benefit from not using allowances for the purpose intended is taxable. Actuals were introduced to satisfy the Treasury on this point so I cannot see them being reintroduced.

[waddingtonpete]

It had been agreed by all 3 service's that the system is too complex and has only saved £2 mil, however to audit and run the system it has cost £10 mil, therefore a flat rate will be introduced, so no matter where you go in the world you will get the same amount. The system was about to be introduced when the MP’s expenses scandal hit the street. The treasury therefore wanted the introduction to be postponed. Hopefully it will hit the streets sometime late summer to autumn. :ugh:

[Arty Fufkin]

OS82,
Not strictly true. IE is an allowance (Not Receipted) as is disturbance allowance, LOA, and a whole load of other flat rated allowances. Moreover, many companies outside use flat rates, including the airlines. Those who claim we were forced to go onto actuals for tax reasons are telling porkies. The intention was to save money, JPA gave (they thought) a suitable vehicle to do it. And it's A*se!!

Also, have you ever noticed how if JPA says you have been paid X amount into you bank, its always another invariably lesser sum that actualy appears on your statement? This is because they don't take overissued money from your account/ wages as advertised. Instead, they keep a total of what they think you owe, and just take it of your next claimed amount. The snag being that it is impossible to see what deductions are being made as you are never told what the ammount is or why you owe them.:confused:

Reduces the number of disputes I suppose!

[Grimweasel]

Well said Waddo Pete - exactly as I heard it this week - about time too!

[ALM In Waiting]

A flat global rate would certainly save money and time for all concerned. Some places you'd be up, others you'd be down, but it was largely like that on rates. So in the absence of any coments from 101 et al, I take it BZN are still on JPA actuals?

[Arty Fufkin]

It always seemed to me that varying the rate depending on the country was about the simplest and fairest part of the old system. It's all vey well hankering after a flat rate, but bear in mind that in the UK you get about £17 for each 24hrs and the $50 that was suggested some months ago is worth naff all now. It won't seem like such a good idea when you find yourself somewhere that your flat rate won't cover your lunch.

This will have to be sold as a cost reduction measure, so I wouldn't expect "some you win some you loose", more like "you loose." That said , I conceed that it will be better than what we have now.

PS, BZN are still on JPA actuals.

[Door Slider]

The exercise I was refering to in my earlier post was in Kenya. The rotary chaps were on rates, I think it came to about £25 a day whilst the visiting
C-17 crews were on actuals.

We have another exercise on going just now in Spain, I will find out if they on are rates.

[Wensleydale]

Capped Actuals vs Rates. The question was asked during a CAS visit to Waddo. The feedback from this visit was put onto the Waddo Website recently - the answer re Capped Actuals is as below:

"The request to go back to rates was raised at both the WOs, Seniors and Officers sessions. Explained that this was work in progress.

Initiating Study Paper in draft to go for initial consideration by SP Pol and 3 Services. Given their agreement the paper will be discussed at the Service Personnel Operating Board (SPOB) for PPOs to decide whether a scoping study should be undertaken. Draft was to be completed by 31 May 09."



In other words, it is being looked at but in its infancy.

[Arty Fufkin]

Ah, a scoping study. That'll be alright then!!

[heights good]

"The exercise I was refering to in my earlier post was in Kenya. The rotary chaps were on rates, I think it came to about £25 a day whilst the visiting
C-17 crews were on actuals."

They were on actuals. We got issued the daily rate and had to put in a claim when we got back to back up the amounts. Any short fall we paid out our own pockets. It was an advance of rates. Made is easier for the imprest holder.

Hope that helps

HG