Easyjet A319 Performance Issue

[leisurelad]

Hi,

Not sure where to post this to be honest but here it is.

Recently come back with Easyjet CFU - BRS on the A319 and although the flight wasn't completely full, just the odd seat or so, we were 8pax too heavy for take off due to the current temperature and wind conditions in CFU at the time. They only had to offload 6 people in the end.

Now as ex crew myself, i realise that this is more of a paperwork exercise but does the A319 struggle quite often.

Thanks

[Zippy Monster]

Depends on the MSN. They are registered to different MTOWs - some are 66000kg but most are 64000kg (there are also a few 62000kg and I believe one or two 68000kg knocking about, but I haven't come across the latter yet.)

Obviously it makes sense if you've got a long sector to put a 66 tonner on it because that's nigh on an hour's extra fuel you can carry over a 64 tonner. Of course, operational and maintenance requirements mean that might not always be possible. I was in a similar position bringing a flight back from Faro last year where we had strong headwinds and a full load, and we had to offload about 8 or 9 pax. If we'd had a 66 tonner, we'd have been OK. No it doesn't always happen, in fact as far as I know it's quite rare. But it can.

EDIT to add: Just re-read your post and yes, either conditions aloft or on the ground can have an effect. It can affect the climb performance when there are obstacles around - I had it in Naples a couple of weeks ago, we had to wait 20 minutes for Rwy 06 because we were too heavy to clear the hill at the end of Rwy 24 with the weight and slight tailwind. I believe in Corfu the favoured runway is 35, and on the departure from there you have a massive great bloody mountain in the way - so at high weight, high temperature and unfavourable wind, yes it is possible but again, probably quite rare.

[lederhosen]

Interesting also how winds are reported on the ATIS. Took off from a northern Greek airlield yesterday with one runway notamed out of service. We were just able (performance wise) to take off from runway 16 wind reported as 160/10. On departure we heard a Greek aircraft requesting a straight in for runway 32 being told the actual wind was 160/15. No problem for us, but the BA aircraft that took off ahead of us from the opposite direction, due to performance issues, looked very low as he went past us!

[frontcheck]

What happens to the passengers left behind?
Do Easyjet have agreements with other airlines?
Cant imagine there are that many EZY flights back to BRS :eek:

[MerchantVenturer]

It's a good question. I would be interested in the answer and not just out of idle curiosity as I know people who are seriously thinking of booking EZY to Corfu from Bristol.

easyJet's website suggests they only fly to Gatwick, Manchester and Bristol from Corfu - LGW daily (increasing to double daily on some days in July and August), MAN and BRS both Mon and Fri only.

[leisurelad]

Hi,

Thanks for your replies, much appreciated.

Easyjet were offering £100pp compensation and you could go on the manchester flight later that day and be coached back to bristol or take the £100pp and be put up in a hotel and go on the Gatwick flight the next day and be coached back to bristol.

I must say that the crew dealt with it very quickly and in a very good manner so well done guys, not a nice situation to be in but with only causing no more than 45min delay, you and the ground staff did good.

[student88]

I think the problem lies with the runway at CFU not the A319.

Someone else may be able to enlighten you a little further.

[BusBoy]

Have the same thing on A321 at CFU, 17 far less restrictive (if Wx permits) but often 1h+ delay waiting for it if ATC can accommodate the request at all.

[brs planespotter]

not sure what the length of brs runway,7000 ft?compared too cfu,we loaders put on 4 and a half trollies of bags on it this morning!runway 09 was in use.not sure why 09 always seems too struggle compared too 27?

[kriskross]

It's often not a question of take off weight, but of performance. The 319s have 22k engines and with close on 3 hours back from CFU and 156 pax with holiday bagage, then if 35 was in use it could present a problem.

The aircraft also weigh a little extra too, with the changed 320 centre section to accomodate the extra overwing exits for the 150+ seats( the CFM 320s are only 1 1/2 tonnes heavier with 180 seats, and also have 27k thrust engines).

This problem does not depend necessarily on the MTOW, 64,66, or 68 tonnes may still struggle on 35, but it may be the case, say 8.5 tonnes of fuel, 41.5 tonnes APS, and 156 pax and bags (actual bag weights), say 16 tonnes, then even a 66 tonner may struggle just to take the weight not allowing for performance restrictions due to temperature, obstacles, runway etc.

The problem occurred a couple of times last year at CFU, and ACE (r/w 03) when a 319 was sent to rescue the pax from a u/s 320, and had to tech stop on the way back.

The CFM 320s would eat it but not necessarily the 319s - there are no 320s at BRS as of today.

[Charlie Roy]

What happens to the passengers left behind?
Do Easyjet have agreements with other airlines?

Since this is not an act of God, and a fly operating within the European Union then Easyjet are obliged to bend over backwards to get you to your destination. This often means putting you on one or more flights with other airlines. They must also compensate you 250 euros for flights less than 1500km, 400 euros for flights between 1500km and 3500km, or 600 euros if greater than 3500km. It's equivalent to overbooking "Denied boarding" in a way...

[boredcounter]

Is the 22k thrust an engine, or derated limit by the Company?

Bored

[Swedish Steve]

Are these different MTOW A319 actually different, or is it all paperwork.
The BA A319 are 68 tonnes, and the Qatar A319 are 75.5 tonnes. Saw one at ARN last night that was 55.3 ZFW and 20.2 tons of fuel.
If Easyjet have a problem, can they buy more MTOW, or are the aircraft physically different.
Or maybe they are artificially limited? BA tried limiting their fleet to 64 tons recently ( to save on landing fees) but had too many problems and are back at 68 again.

[kriskross]

Please someone correct me if I am wrong, but the engines are 'pin' derated to 22k by limiting EGT, the engines are physically the same - the 319s were powered to fit in with the EZY network at the time when ATH from LTN and LGW was the longest, and INV,ABZ and CIA were probably the most performance limiting airfields. With the increase in routes following the GB amalgamation the extra profit seen from the longer 'holiday' routes has called for increased performance - hence the EZY CFM 320s and keeping some of the 321s to do Egypt. Thus we have many more performance limited airfields.

The weight reduction is a simple paperwork exercise on the 319, 64, 66, or 68 tonnes depending on the routes ( the CFM 320 is the same, some at 77t and some at 73.5t) purely to cut down on eurocharges and landing fees, but unfortunately the paper work to change from one to the other in DifficultJet means that a change takes some weeks to implement. So sometimes the wrong weight, wrong performance aircraft is used to the wrong destination.