Singapore Airlines Storms

[keltic]

Well, I am one of those passengers who hate flying, and after AF447 storms makes me feel quite uneasy, and even scared. Of course I know about the weather radar, the lightning doesn´t harm the aircraft, but I am still really concerned as there has been too many events involving storms which shouldn´t have never happened.

Flying on SQ321 (A380) to Singapore next saturday I am starting to take pills. I know it´s early to check weather forecast, but Asia is tricky at this time of the year, and storms are predicted next saturday, and a 17:55 is not a really nice time if one wants to avoid storms.

I would love to hear if weather could get really nasty in Singapore, and what are the procedures when the pilot receives the report of storms in the landing path. Avoid the landing, wait, get into it (I hope not) and how well can the A380 cope with turbulence, and storms. :{

I do trust SQ trainning, and suppose they know their place quite well,

[Andy_S]

Without pre-empting any report into AF447, it's likely that the accident was due to a combination of reasons. The weather may have been a factor, but is most unlikely to have been the outright cause.

As you say, the aircraft is designed to cope with bad weather, and the pilots have weather radar and can avoid the worst of any storms.

Just think about the statistics. Think about the hundreds of flights that land and take off at Changi every day, week after week, year after year, without any dramas. Why should yours be any different?

[parabellum]

I flew with SIA for ten years and the policy was always to avoid storms like the plague. If a storm is passing at the time you are due to land then then you can expect to hold off until the storm passes, usually absolute maximum of forty five minutes but generally a whole lot less. It is normal procedure to fly around active weather cells whilst en route but you can still expect some buffeting, somewhere, on a thirteen hour flight.

[keltic]

Thanks a lot.

I do love this

Think about the hundreds of flights that land and take off at Changi every day

the policy was always to avoid storms like the plague

Two ideas which sound reasonable and conforting. Pills and a glass of wine :)

But I mean.....when storms are reported, I suppose it doesn´t necessary mean that they should be in the approach path. Isolated T-storms, means for instance that they could be in one side of the runway but not in the other?. Or even in the vicinity, but not necesarily over the airport?. Are the weather radars effective to check where they are?. Do the crews always know what kind of clouds they are getting in?. Are all clouds turbulent?.

I know rain doesn´t usully mean "turbulence".

[Load Toad]

I used to live in Singers and was a pax flying in and out of there up to 80 times a year and never had the slightest problem.

[keltic]

Hi Load Toad;

Thanks as well. In fact and flying back from Hong Kong in 10 days time with VS. I know Hong Kong weather is a little bit more "complex" than Singapore one and we might encounter a typhon, or similar storms.

However, I don´t know the reason, but storms don´t scare me that much in taking off, since I suppose I could cancel or postpone my flight from the ground if I see that the situation gets nasty.

Anyway, it doesn´t sound too drammatical though.

[VH DSJ]

I think you'll find their pilots just as scared as you are with thunderstorms; read that as "they'll do their best to avoid them"

I do trust SQ trainning, and suppose they know their place quite well,

Well, as a matter of fact, SQ trains their pilots in Western Australia on the edge of the Australian desert. They'd be lucky to see one puff of cloud in all their training. :E

[Donkey497]

Hi Keltic,

I did LHR - SIN a couple of months ago in the A380. We had a couple of thunderstorms floating about when we were coming in to land, and all we did was to change the approach pattern & timing to avoid flying through the storms on finals.

Likewise on the return flight, there was a storm on the "ideal" flightpath, so we had a slightly early turn to port, there was also a farily nasty line of thunderstorms all the way up the east coast of sumatra, so we kept a bit west of them passing Kuala Lumpur.

Apart from that the flights were completely uneventful. I have immense respect for the A380. I appreciate that I travelled on the top deck in business class as I was out there for work, however, I found it to be the smoothest, quietest and least fussy aircraft that I have ever travelled on. There is very little sensation of movement during takeoff and landing and I cannot say that I noticed anything like the "normal" levels of vibration or turbulence at any point of the flight.

Enjoy the flight and enjoy the overall experience.

[keltic]

Thanks both of you too. I have been reading about the new vertical weather radar fitted on the A380 from Honeywell, sounds good.

I will try to enjoy the experience.

[leewan]

Have no worries, dude. The weather for the last few weeks in SIN has been hot as hell. But then again, SIN weather can change without warning like a womens' mood during PMS.;)
All pilots including incl SQ's are professionally trained to avoid nasty storms and other nasties along their flight path. They can see this through their weather radar.
And storms in SIN , no matter how heavy they are, very rarely pack strong winds which is the main danger point for the tech crew.
In the worst case scenario, they will just circle the airport for up to an hour or land at alternative airports like KLIA or Batam.

[Rush2112]

Flying in and out of SIN on a very regular basis, almost always on SQ. Never had an issue with the weather. And as leewan notes, it's pretty warm just now. Did have some rain over the weekend IIRC but I may have hallucinated it after a session at Brewerkz.

[Load Toad]

Sit back, have a drink, chill out.

[keltic]

And off topic question...........as weather seems to be not a matter of concern. Do you know if the cruise terminal can be reached using the underground?.

[Rainboe]

I'm trying not to comment here, but it is proving too much. So we have yet another nervous passenger who buys himself a ticket on an airline he's probably never heard of before, then lies awake at night worrying about it. Here's (http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/378356-question-pilots-your-average-frequent-flyer.html) another running (scared) now.

An airline pilots forum is not necessarily the place where you will find reassurance or sympathy! Either go or don't (and forego your fare), but please don't bore us all to death with your nerves. I do this job for a living. What do you want people to say? 'yes, you are in extreme danger!' or 'what are you worried about, you wimp! Do you want a guarantee you are perfectly safe in life until cancer gets you at 85?' Go or don't go, but the rest of the world does not have to witness your shakes or pander to your nerves! Be a man and conquor this nonsense- I have done countless trips through there over nearly 40 years- how did I manage?

I think maybe time for a sticky for nervous passengers, but how many new threads from wobblies do we need?

[keltic]

Thanks for your kinds words too. Technically you´re right, but I can´t understand what makes you feel so angry. No, absolutely. I don´t want to hear any encouraging comments, that´s my psycology task.

I think you have misunderstood me. The issue here, as it´s the passenger forum, it´s not a fearful flier wimp cry, but just some information about what are the procedures like in the case of storms in the landing paths. I am so sorry to have upset and bored you. However from the hard and unfair comments, I do appreciate some of your remarks.

I have done countless trips through there over nearly 40 years- how did I manage?

Sounds good, Rainbow. :D
Best wishes

[Scumbag O'Riley]

I completely know where you are coming from keltic so take a look at this thread, http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/349752-nervous-flyer-thread.html, just on page one a SN3Guppy has some wise words.

[Final 3 Greens]

Rainboe

I really don't get you.

Here is a passenger with a concern, who is asking questions about something of concern and learning. Keltic even says "as weather seems to be not a matter of concern."

So s/he has used the forum to put a reasonable concern into perspective and overcome a worry.

From where I'm sitting, this looks pretty positive.

Then you come along like the local bully.....

What is it with you?

I saw your stupid comment about the 'ride of the valkyries' on the other thread and thought how juvenile it sounded.

Research suggests that somwheat over half of all airline pax are nervous - they are your customers, so please treat them with some respect.

[clareprop]

I'm trying not to comment here, but it is proving too much.

So here we have an arrogant pilot who, as a number of recent threads seem to show, thinks he's God's gift to psychology, flying for some second-rate airline we probably don't care about.

A passenger forum is a fairly acceptable place to ask questions about fear of flying, especially after recent events but this "pilot" enjoys boring us all to death about how only weaklings have concerns and anybody who isn't a hetrosexual, able-bodied human being who is prepared to pay their money, strap in and shut-up, shouldn't leave home.

However, there is some good news in the offing. On the basis that he, allegedly, has been flying for 40 years, he will soon be sent home where he can spend his days happily fulminating about how bad it is now and how wonderful it all used to be.

[keltic]

I don´t want to sound like a trembling piece of jelly myself, and don´t want to go directly to the fearfull stuff. I fly, I assume the minimum risk, and I know is more likely to be killed bitten by a bee for instance. I do trust the pilots, and I have never wanted to imply that flying is dangerous. Not at all.

One out of five passengers are fearfull fliers in a different degree, because they don´t have enough information, which is usually increased by biased media. That´s why those who love aviation, like me, like this forum as an valuable source for technical information. I suppose that´s why the passengers forum is aimed to. A point of contact between passengers and pilots. We might sound stupid sometimes, but we need to understand things from your prespective. It´s a privilige for us. Taking into account that the passengers, are a prime target for airlines, since we are the source of income, it´s normal that we can share our feelings with you.

I have had a lightning strike on landing in Venice, which wasn´t too serious, and now roughly that storms are not dangerous at all. I suppose AF447 made us to be a little bit more surprised, because as we have always been told: storms are not a matter of concern. Still nothing definite on the crash, but I still have in mind: how could he get into there with the radars?. I still trust in aviation, but need to understand some things, not questioning the ability of pilots, but needing to know more.

Thanks Scumbag O'Riley, Clearpop and Final 3 Greens, and all those who have clarified some points. You all have been of great help. :ok: I didn´t mean to create such a controversy.

[TightSlot]

Rainboe - has been given a short break from PPRuNe to calm down. Twenty Four hours on the naughty step should focus his attention.

[ceeb]

excellent move TightSlot, makes it a better place IMO

[angels]

Like loadtoad, I used to live in Singers and although I didn't do as many trips a year as him, I can assure you that the pilots know exactly what they're doing.

The storms in Singapore are generally extremely localised and over quite quickly. I was in a Garuda flight once which did a touch and go in the middle of a storm and when it came back a few minutes later the sun was out.

I was far more scared by a lightning strike I experienced on finals at LHR and I see you've been through that!

Re your question about the cruise terminal, no it can't be reached by underground. Are you going directly there from the airport? If so, just use a cab, they're efficient, metered etc. It won't cost much.

Cheers.

[passy777]

Two ideas which sound reasonable and conforting. Pills and a glass of wine



May I suggest this is not a wise idea?:=

On BA10 from BKK - LHR last Friday (19th June), on approach to Heathrow, one pax still had his seat in the recline position. A member of the cabin crew who thought he was asleep, attempted to wake him up to adjust his seat into the upright position. Unfortunately, he could not be woken and despite the efforts of other members of the crew to 'revive' the pax, this proved to be unsuccessful.

After checking the passenger’s vital signs, his hand luggage was inspected which contained a pack of sleeping pills and due to the obvious copious amount of wine he had drunk (empty bottles filling the seat pocket), this had likely had an adverse effect.

As we were now well into the descent into LHR, the pax sitting next to the 'ill' person was moved to a CC jump seat which allowed a member of the cabin crew to accompany the ailing passenger.

On arrival at LHR, the Paramedics were boarded immediately after landing and the passenger was still 'out of it'.

One wonders if this passengers 'situation' had been discovered 'mid flight', would a medical emergency have been declared which potentially could have required the aircraft to be diverted??

I do enjoy a drink on a flight, but irrespective of how fearful of flying a person is, if the cause of this passenger’s situation was purely to drink and drugs, this was pure stupidity and irresponsible. Of course, there may have been another cause to this person’s illness, however, if indeed there was an underlying medical problem with this passenger, taking alcohol and sleeping tablets makes his actions even more stupid in my opinion.

Regarding responses to the initial posting, I do concur with some of Rainboe’s comments.

[keltic]

Thanks Angels. I am surprised of one thing. Singapore is a small place, and they have different weather forecasts according to the area. woww, thats unpredictability. Well, I am quite happy now, and not really concerned.

I had already considered the cab option, but I thought there was a station at water front. It would depend where the ship is berthed. Anyway, taxi option is fairly more quick and convenient.

Thanks Passy777, I was just joking http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif I take a pill but never dared to mix it with alcohol

[Load Toad]

They have weather forecasts even though the weather is the same every f'day! The easiest job in the world is the Singapore weather girl 'Bright and sunny in the morning with the chances of showers over some areas in the afternoon - temperature 26o - 33oC'.
Never a degree over by the way - I'm sure some H&S rule comes into force if it gets officially hotter.
There is a 'slightly more rainy season' which IIRC was something like Nov - March.
Humidity is always set at 'Oh God'.

[leewan]

Hey Keltic,
There is a train going down to the cruise terminal at harbourfront. It costs roughly around $2 compared to $30 - $40 for a cab ride. But if you are taking alot of luggage and coming down at peak periods, it's better you stick with the cab as the trains can be quite packed and need at least 2 transfers.

To give you a idea of how varied the weather can be within a small island, take a look at this pic:
Photos: Boeing 737-3B7 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Thai-AirAsia/Boeing-737-3B7/1403082/L/&sid=df8d071cceed9306b65f0db914a3193a)

[angels]

keltic - humble apologies. Thanks to leewan for correcting me, I see they have indeed opened a route through to the harbourfront.

I would still get a cab though. Despite the increased cost (and it really isn't that much) the convenience is well worth it.

The pic is a great illustration of what the weather can be like. As loadie says, I've always maintained that being a Singapore weather person is a doddle.

I was fortunate enough to be posted to Singapore at the height of the Hong Kong summer, which IMHO is far worse than Singers ever was!

[Load Toad]

Yes indeed - I used to drive home down the PIE or AYE and you could drive from bright sunlight into a storm so ferocious with rain you'd struggle to see the front of your car and then back into bright sunlight 200m later - quite startling. Not as startling as driving down the north south highway in Malaysia and being in similar storms and noticing the lorries never slowed down - you didn't know whether to keep speeding a long and risk driving up the arse end of another vehicle or slow down and get totalled from behind - mostly I would take the opportunity to stop at a service station and stock up on beef rendang pie.

[keltic]

wowww, the pic simply amazing and beautiful.:ok:

Take note of the underground.

[Donkey497]

Hi Keltic,

If you are heading to the cruise terminal directly from Changi airport and have more than a small bag with you, I'd recommend taking a taxi, rather than the underground, as they are trying to reduce the number of people travelling on the underground with lots of luggage, especially at peak hours. I usually do Changi - Orchard street with a medium size laptop backpack and a Samsonite trolly bag, about the size of typical US passenger carry on & recently that's been frowned at as being excessive.

Basically, they are trying to keep the underground system running to time by limiting the hold-up of people getting on and off, which is no bad thing. Also if you take a taxi & it's during the day, you'll get a neat littel tour od Singapore, or if it's by night, Singapore has a pretty good nightscape as well & as has been said earlier, the taxis cost a bit more than the underground, but they're not expensive by any comparison.

[Rainboe]

Rainboe is out of the naughty corner, and i know some of you are just dying to have your misconceptions answered! So
only weaklings have concerns and anybody who isn't a hetrosexual, able-bodied human being who is prepared to pay their money, strap in and shut-up, shouldn't leave home.
The point is, if you buy a ticket for something you find scary, you still have to get on and do it, or find an alternative. Either fly, or walk. If really scared, then people like Pablo Mason who does it professionally will hold your hand and try and get past your problems. I will chase you like a Doberman up the stairs. I think my way is better. And I never said anything about able bodied, or otherwise, human beings. Don't understand that comment from a nasty individual- am I accused of poo-pooing Christmas too? (I do).

I had the pleasure to fly for a great airline for many years before being retired (honorably and unwillingly, but that was before the law changed). I now fly for a small airline with incredibly professional standards, and I am having a total blast and enjoying flying fantastically. Certainly not some 'second rate airline' Clareprop! We have at least 2 multi-millionaires flying for us...for the enjoyment of the job. So you nervous types, what does that tell you about the dangers of the air? If you still can't see it, then admit you have a problem and use surface transport- just allow 6 weeks to Singapore and treble the expense. But no sympathy because you have forfeit your fare- just don't hold 350 people up having a 'crisis'.

[keltic]

A little bit of clarification again. I have been friendly answered about all I wanted to know. That was not having sympathy, receive confort, or creating a crisis. I bought a ticket, I assume the risks, it´s my problem, and probably I will enjoy my flight. Pilots are professionals who take their own life onboard and will do their very best to operate the aircraft safely.

Pilots usually understand that passengers are not only pieces of flesh with eyes which allow them to earn money, but human beings with questions. It might be an inconvenience giving information to all their querries, but I suppose airlines know the importance of having people happy and informed. After being happy and informed, the number of passengers increase and all will be satisfied.

Going strickly to the point, which is asking for information, most people still have some doubts about the implications of storms. Passengers are told about weather radars, about avoiding them at all costs, and then...oppps....we have planes being caught in the middle, and causing problems and crashes. So I don´t know if it´s a question of limits, or not doing things in a proper way, or simply inherente risks of life which can be avoided. .

Travelling to Singapore using ground transportation would be an excelent idea. Probably next time. Anyway.....I AM HAPPY AND READY TO FLY. Thanks again to all people who has provided me with vital pieces of information, including Rainboe. There are SOME interesting ideas.

[leewan]

Take the cab. You get to see enroute from the airport:
Singapore Flyer - the biggest Ferris wheel in the world
Singapore CBD skyline
Glimpse of the Esplanade - Singapore's controversial answer to the opera house
The casinos taking form
The Formula 1 pit stop buildings plus going right under the tracks
And a view of one of the world's busiest sea port.

[keltic]

Yes, I think I´ll do that. After a long flight, underground is probably a little bit exhausting.

Thanks

[Andy_S]

keltic,

I'm not sure what day or time you'll be arriving at Changi. You also don't make it clear whether you'll be going directly from the airport to the cruise terminal, although my assumption is that you will.

For reference, I took a cab a few weeks ago from Serangoon Road (Little India) to Changi and it cost me 13 Singapore Dollars - about £ 6.50. Having said that, it was a Sunday morning and the traffic was light so you may end up paying more - the cabs are metered. I would agree with other advice that this is the best way - the MRT is busy and will involve a couple of changes of train en-route not to mention escalators, ticket barriers etc. If you try it, I suspect you'll regret it.

[keltic]

I will be getting at 18:00 (SQ321) on saturday, so I suppose it´s evening in Singapore. I think almost at night (19:00?). I don´t know how quick are the airport formalities, baggage collecting and so on.

But I will definitely take the taxi.

[angels]

keltic - assuming you have an EU passport you will breeze through immigration.

I mainly went through Changi with hand baggage only, but on the occasions I had hold baggage I literally can't think of any time that I was delayed. Quite often the baggage will be waiting for you.

Changi doesn't get all those 'best airport in the world' awards for nothing!

Have a great trip!

[parabellum]

And a view of the world's busiest sea port.


Can you really see Rotterdam from Singapore?

(It depends on how you measure it, Singapore, for instance, container in, container transhipped, container out = 3 movements but at Rotterdam that is only one movement).

[Load Toad]

My personal record from getting through the gate, over to immigration, grab my baggage and get my car and head off up the East Coast Parkway was a little over 15 minutes. Darn good airport Changi.

As per the weather the days in Singapore are pretty much identical - pitch back at 6.30am - buy the time you are off the bog, out th' shower and getting breakie it is broad daylight at 7am. and at night - yup about 7pm it's gone black again.

[angels]

You can always tell when its winter in Singers because there's a two minute difference to loady's times above!!

My personal record for getting into the motor at Chagni was around 10 minutes (without bags).

[torquemada60]

Keltic
Don't worry. Singapore airlines is one of the best in the world. Pilots are great. I fly regularly around the region and trust me you have nothing to worry about. Relax!
I just got back from Manila a few days ago, nasty TS around, cathay crew were great flying around those CB's.
Thank you guys!!!

[leewan]

And a view of one of the world's busiest sea port.

Happy now, Parabellum .:)

[parabellum]

Excellent stuff leewan!!!:ok: