What effect does the new cadet program requirement has on the future of DESO/FO?

[EPASZ]

Now that the Cadet program are open to all nationalities instead of HKIDers, might as well tell the world Cathay is hiring expats on half price (on local terms)...by simply lowering the hour requirement to 0. Im sure there will be people interested in this new scheme.

[SMOC]

If the AOA doesn't negotiate a decent package for these guys, CX will have a new low to aim for!

[Ex Cathedra]

Im sure there will be people interested in this new scheme.

Low time pilots will probably be interested for the opportunity to enter a major airline and fly widebodies, even if it means being an SO for 4 or 5 years. But unless they're locals, I can't see them staying on those conditions much past the JFO upgrade with a rating in hand.

Living here as an SO, even on COS99, is tight enough, so I can't imagine how it would be having to pay rent somewhere making 30K a month. They'd be better off coming to HK as english teachers...

I hope they don't expect to get cheap(er) expats that way.

[14MonthInterview]

I hope they don't expect to get cheap(er) expats that way.

Interesting choice of words ex Cathedra. I would have personally asked "I hope they don't expect to get cheap(er) PILOTS that way." Which to be honest is redundant anyway as they already do! I hope you are not insinuating that certain type of people, because of their origins, are better suited to sit in the cockpit of a Cathay jet. :=

[jonathon68]

A free Hong Kong CPL/IR w/frozen ATPL, and then a P2X rating on a 340, 777 or 744 without having to sign a training bond... sounds like a bargain to me.

[Humber10]

sounds like management dont mind CX being a stepping stone for bigger and better things (pay packet). A few years in CX, free licence and a free jet rating. After a year or so as F/O, one will be ready for a better paying job!

[flynhigh]

I was just thinking if they want to save money why dont they just offer what KAL is offering. Give people 12 days OFF a month at home and put them up in Headland while in HKG.

[ShirleyNot]

Its looking more and more likely that to join Cathay as a thirty something with a few thousand hours is becoming a thing of the past. I hope not.

[Sqwak7700]

I think it is funny that you all assume that the waiver of the HKID card requirement means they will bring in western expats. They would never do that. A western pilot has the option to piss-off if they don't like it here.

No, this new requirement is to bring in mainlanders to Cathay. No matter how low we think Cathay's cadet program package is, it is much better than what you make as a Chinese pilot in Mainland. Guarantee that :ok:

This will allow them to hire masses more pilots and get rid of the really expensive ones... you and me. :hmm:

[mizzy]

Low time pilots will probably be interested for the opportunity to enter a major airline and fly widebodies, even if it means being an SO for 4 or 5 years. But unless they're locals, I can't see them staying on those conditions much past the JFO upgrade with a rating in hand.

Living here as an SO, even on COS99, is tight enough, so I can't imagine how it would be having to pay rent somewhere making 30K a month. They'd be better off coming to HK as english teachers...

I hope they don't expect to get cheap(er) expats that way

hey guys,

there is something i can hardly understand with the current local SO pay. Honest speaking, HKD30k/mo. is = some USD3.8k, which is very close to some junior capt's pay in US regional or similiar. I can survive with 20k or even 15k (HKD) /mo. with a comfortable life (not luxury). yet to mention, this is the 1 year basic pay only and will increase accordingly. you will get about double when you reached 1 yr F/O.

to rent a nice and nearly new condo in Tung Chung cost about 7-8k, allow some additional 2k for internet, TV, h20 etc. you still have some 20k in your account.

after all, who don;t want the expats pay? but what i am try to say is even with local pay, you can survive perfectly. dont forget we are talking people with Zero to low flyign hours.

the CPP = express elevator, 13 moths **** allowance while training in ADL + not bad local terms, some 3-3.5 yrs P2x on wide-body, type rated afterward...

V.S.

you may -
forget paying your own training, forget the ****ty pay FL instructor (1-2years), forget about the ****ty pay regional time (2-3years min)

well...in my opinion, it isn't too bad after all....

[flynhigh]

You must be be a single guy in the mid 20. Dont forget Local Tax. Your math is fuzzy, when I was a Capt on a CRJ 5 years ago I made $5800 a month after tax. If you are willing to take it than you can have my spot. Good Luck.:ok:

[mizzy]

You must be be a single guy in the mid 20. Dont forget Local Tax. Your math is fuzzy, when I was a Capt on a CRJ 5 years ago I made $5800 a month after tax. If you are willing to take it than you can have my spot. Good Luck.


hi flynhigh,

no, i am in my mid 30s and don't get me wrong, what I am talking about is 1yr S/O pay with local package is totally survivable and as well as local pay. i am talking about the CPP, not DE. i believed only people with low or no pervious fying experience will consider and this is what I am talkign about. person like you with thousands of flying hours will not even think about the CPP.

the tax rate in HK is relatively low (approximately 1 month of your average salary), of course extra tax form other country isnt inculded.

so, my opinion is - people with no or low hours

(basic pay)
****ty allowance during initial FL training (free) (+13months in ADL)
USD3.8k - USD5.2k for the initial 3-4 years
some USD 6k - 9k for the next 5 years

vs

paying your own training all the way to CFII/MEI (say USD+35k-40k)
instructing for 1.5 years at about USD2-2.5k
Regional (F/O) or similiar for 2-3 years USD1.8k-3.2k (say 80 hrs)

the CPP still look attractive after all & don't forget, you still have a choice once the contract is finished. And again, I am just talking about the pos and cons for people with no or low flygint hours. experienced pilots are excluded.

[mizzy]

I think it is funny that you all assume that the waiver of the HKID card requirement means they will bring in western expats. They would never do that. A western pilot has the option to piss-off if they don't like it here.

No, this new requirement is to bring in mainlanders to Cathay. No matter how low we think Cathay's cadet program package is, it is much better than what you make as a Chinese pilot in Mainland. Guarantee that

This will allow them to hire masses more pilots and get rid of the really expensive ones... you and me.


i don't think the HKID wavier is targeted on the mainland people. their overall standard, english in particular can hardly fulfilled the CX standard. on the other hand, western with low or no experience is their target or people around the asia pacific region. please don;t forget that expats package is designed to attract expats and the CPP is designed to attract non-expats. well, after all, this CPP really can cut cost but at the same time, is a great opportunity for low hrs pilot or prople w/ no perious experience but wish to jumpstart a career in aviation.

[holdmetight]

after all, who don;t want the expats pay? but what i am try to say is even with local pay, you can survive perfectly. dont forget we are talking people with Zero to low flyign hours.

spot on.

whether your pay is "enough" really is dictated by what kind of a lifestyle you lead. when you remember that there are so many others who are paid significantly less than pilots, and who live free of poverty and impoverishment, you will understand that a LEP's pay package is not that bad.

i do wonder, though, how CX plans to attract expatriate cadets with such a package. if these expatriate cadets are also trained from ab-initio, how would they view the fact that they are being given a local contract?

[Grivation]

I was at a fleet forum recently where it was hinted that the DESO program would be coming to an end. Future hiring to be CPP & DEFO only.

[flynhigh]

mizzy

Hello. I see what your saying now and your point is taken. Take care and good luck:ok:

[the reo]

What standard of english do you think that they want.
If they achieve the ICAO standard for the ATPL licence do you really think that pirate organisation will really care about anything else.

As far as your costs of living, I'd suggest to you that they don't care. This just another step to prove that Cathay is already a low cost carrier. The Premier FLag airline of 20 years ago is long dead.

[ShirleyNot]

I was at a fleet forum recently where it was hinted that the DESO program would be coming to an end. Future hiring to be CPP & DEFO only.

It actually sounds like a much better plan than what they have been doing. What would happen to the SOs though? Will they upgrade all the SOs then start hiring DEFOs when they need them?

[mizzy]

Hello. I see what your saying now and your point is taken. Take care and good luck

honest speaking, i do think western cadet will move on to other much better pay carrier when they have finished the contract or when they have enough hours unless something is tying them to HK. local cadet is different, many of their roots are here, harder to move.

i do wonder, though, how CX plans to attract expatriate cadets with such a package. if these expatriate cadets are also trained from ab-initio, how would they view the fact that they are being given a local contract?

well, 13 months form nothing or just a few hundreds + 1 interview to working for a major airline flying wide-bodies vs 4/5 yrs min. (instructing/regional time) then possible a chance to have interview offer. this is the attractive part. if i already am instrcuting, i would definately aim for DEFO, or DESO (if still offering). after all, you already know the terms when you send the appication, cant have a "red-eye" on the expats package.

It actually sounds like a much better plan than what they have been doing. What would happen to the SOs though? Will they upgrade all the SOs then start hiring DEFOs when they need them?

i don't thik they will wait as long as they can start hiring DEFO. i think upgrade will properly like the current DEFO/SO procedure (a mess).

As far as your costs of living, I'd suggest to you that they don't care. This just another step to prove that Cathay is already a low cost carrier. The Premier FLag airline of 20 years ago is long dead.

PRC has more teh 1 bil people, i honestly believed that whoever could go through the CPP process, they really are the top few percents. on the other hands, working visa is another problem, not as simple as other foreigners.

sorry for a bit long reply!:)

[Loiter1]

It actually sounds like a much better plan than what they have been doing. What would happen to the SOs though? Will they upgrade all the SOs then start hiring DEFOs when they need them?

God, I laughed so hard it almost hurt. Given recent history you really have to be kidding?:}

[ShirleyNot]

Yeah i am kidding, but f**k it, id thought id bring some logic into the equation.

[Loiter1]

Don't worry Shirley, I was crying while I was laughing.:{There is a certain irony to this though. Cathay, an airline that has had other airlines/militaries do the initial hard training yards for them for so long, is now going to become the training ground for other international airlines.:ok:

If I was 20 I'd go for it. I was making s#%t money back then anyway, but I sure didn't get myself a free widebody endorsement out of it!

[CokeZero]

The hiring of Expats on Local terms has started!!! (no Housing, schooling etc)

But who will come?

The American's??? No I don't think so
The Aussies - With a criminal record they can't travel.
The Brit's - After a cup of tea they might shuffle along
The Canucks - No - they're getting ready for Canada Day 1 July
The New Zealanders - The Rugby is on TV so No.

So that leaves

India, Indonesia, Malaysia and South America.

Hong Kong Airlines - watch out. We want your staff



No animals were hurt in the writing of this email - HK SPCA

[Ex Cathedra]

I hope you are not insinuating that certain type of people, because of their origins, are better suited to sit in the cockpit of a Cathay jet.


Huh?

Logic has it that the ONLY reason CX is dropping the HKID requirement to apply for the Cadet Pilot Program IS to get expats (as in: people who aren't from HK).

Native HKers do have an easier time living in HK without the expat package because they have family here, already have their own housing accomodation, speak the language and generally spend less money in HK for an equivalent lifestyle, although it's still not a fair deal. But the problem (and the reason CX wants cheaper expats) is that the 'local' contracts they are offering do not even attract enough locals. Many would rather study and work for a different sector where it is not hard to make at least as much money.

So, instead of offering more money to local cadets, CX is trying to see who else in the world is desperate enough to land that kind of job with that kind of money. And as others have mentionned, they will probably find them in countries where aviation is very unrewarding.

But again, once they come here and realize they do the same job other expats do for much more, and the kind of lifestyle their contract will provide them in HK, their sense of commitment to CX will be pulled very taught once they have an A330 or T7 rating in hand. Especially since, contrary to native Hkers, they'll have nothing holding them here.

[skyflyer737]

Hi - realistically how many hours to Cathay want for direct entry FOs? Would 2000 hours on 737s be enough to give you a chance at an interview or do they require a lot more?

Thanks
SkyFlyer737

[SMOC]

The hiring of Expats on Local terms has started!!! (no Housing, schooling etc)

But who will come?

The American's??? No I don't think so

From the Fragrant Harbour Wannabes

http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour-wannabes/378978-cathay-pacific-cadet-pilot-programme.html

So, the minimum flight time required, which I know is 0. But what is the maximum flight time allowed to enter the cadet program?
And if selected are you allowed to bring your wife to AUST. and she can be in her own place. Shes a lawyer and might be able to get a visa to AUST. via the territory.

Please no funny answers, just straight answers please. Myself and wife are seriously disscussing this issue...Thank god my wife say "wherever we need to go baby, we'll go there"

This guy is from Los Angeles.

If you built it they will come.............whether they stay is another thing!

[calvin.&.holmes]

hey everyone,

when will they start the recruitment for the 0 hr. pilots

[broadband circuit]

Dear Moderators,

this thread has devolved into a wannabees discussion. Can you please either close the thread, or move it to the wannabees forum.

Thank you.