series pass

[zuluflyer]

what does first,second,third series pass mean? is a second or third series pass bad and does that mean you have no chance of getting a job.

[Whirlygig]

If you pass first time, you pass first time at series one and all's well with the world. If you get a partial pass at first attempt and later resit the partial and pass, it's still a series one pass. Partial passes are quite common and nowt to be ashamed of.

However, if you fail that first partial pass, you have to retake the whole skill test and this becomes series two.

So you can imagine series three ain't going to look too good on a CV.

Cheers

Whirls

[Artie Fufkin]

I know someone who got a 5th series IR pass and got a job on the B757 within a year!

[clanger32]

a 5th series pass? Bloody hell! They probably deserve the job for having the sheer nerve to keep going (at what? near on £2k per series I'd hazzard!)

Only other thing to mention is that if you fail the first flight test outright, (i.e. you fail more than one section of the test) then you go straight to a second series - taking the whole test all over again. Therefore if you fail more than one section, you CAN NOT get a first SERIES pass at all.

Personally I doubt a second series pass would seriously hamper your job prospects, as there's an AWFUL lot that can go wrong on test day - not least of which are nerves. Beyond that and I'd have to say you'd need to consider...

[INNflight]

Why would you put your pass rate on your CV. First series PPL and CPL...wow, you're a good pilot. Hours and experience count, I bet hardly anyone gives a lot about your pass rate.

(for the record, I had first time passes in all my flight tests and theoretical exams, no partials too. It is still not on my CV)

[mad_jock]

Some people seem to make a big deal on there CV's about it.

Same with the theory exam scores.

It doesn't look right to my eye, but I am sure some CP's like the information. First job I wasn't asked about it. Second I was, but only for about 5 mins. Then came the tech questions about airframe icing, deicing fluid, tail stalls and prop theory. ouch!

[zuluflyer]

sorry guys i should have been more clear i meant regarding groundschool exams

[Whirlygig]

I've not heard of the term "series" passes used in a groundschool context. Do you mean sittings? Six sittings, four attempts at each subject.

If you can't pass all of the exams in the timeframe with the above restrictions, then you have to resit all the exams again even if you have already passed them once. If THIS is what is meant by a "series", I would question whether that person is up to it if they are on their second or third series :}

Cheers

Whirls

[Artie Fufkin]

Again, I know someone who is on a second round of groundschool after having to start all over again by failing his 14th exam by some miniscule amount on the last available attempt. He is now consistantly failing his way through the exams a second time, and most people seem to think him unemployable as a consequence.

On the other end of the scale, no disgrace in the odd 74% in Met / Gen Nav etc.

[clanger32]

Good God Artie! You don't half know them, don't you!
Nearest I can come is someone who was deliriously happy and telling everyone he had passed his 3rd series CPL when he had in fact partialled it. In fairness, he did then pass the partial, but even so - he just didn't understand at that point that a partial was NOT a pass....worrying!

And also, I;m with Whirls....I would be seriously worried about aptitude and more so application for anyone who was on their second or third attempts at all 14 ATPL exams!

[zuluflyer]

thats the thing its a vicious cirlce and i do feel sorry for those who are in it once u have done the apptitude tests for the flying school thats it your supposed to be "capeable" of passing each exam and everythings hunky dorey. but from what i have seen is that people go back to bad habits i.e just bristolling everything as they are desperate to fly and cram in a many exams as they can in a short time like two months. i would actually question wether the apptitude tests are too easy at some of these flying schools(and maybe they are because they want our money and dont care about satisfaction) not the student.

[Whirlygig]

Can't see why it's a vicious circle; more like throwing good money after bad.

A lot of students/pilots won't ever have done aptitude tests so I can't see the relevance to your point. If someone is continually failing ATPL exams, it's not because an aptitude test incorrectly predicted the outcome but because the student has not applied him/herself and become lazy.

From an employer's point of view, it's a concern as a bad track record in exams might indicate that the student would struggle to pass a type-rating paper and no employer is going to be too sympathetic.

Cheers

Whirls

[dream747]

Do employers usually look at the scores of the subjects? I mean it's good to pass everything in the first attempt, but is it also the case if you score all 75s in the first attempt as compared to a student failing one subject and scoring 90s in the rest?

[quant]

From an employer's point of view, it's a concern as a bad track record in exams might indicate that the student would struggle to pass a type-rating paper and no employer is going to be too sympathetic.

i'm not to sure how a potential employer would know about repeated ATPL attempts or for that matter the series of pass? can someone enlighten us? is it written on your license?

Off course i'm aiming for first time passes but you never know :8

[Whirlygig]

The original question referred to the theory and no, it's not on your licence but, if an employer asked to see the results letters ...?

The point is though, if a student cannot pass the theory within the six sittings/four attempts rules, they might want to question either their committment or ability.

Cheers

Whirls

[clanger32]

Fully agree with Whirls - if you can't pass the 14 exams within the 6 sittings/four attempts rule then you really should be questioning your aptitude/attitude/whether you really want to do this.

In answer to "does it matter"? I don't know the answer but would bet large sums of money that the value placed on your theory results and series passes varies hugely from employer to employer. I know for a fact, for one, that Ryanair ask to see your original ATPL exam results notification sheets....you may have awkward questions as to why you failed (if you did) - but clearly I can't say whether or not one or more failed ATPL subjects would effectively be a bar on employment there...only Ryanair HR could do that.

The overall point is though, there is no reason to fail any ATPL subjects....there is more than enough excellent training and feedback available that you shouldn't be in that position. Of course anyone can fail one of the harder subjects - partic gen nav and met - but I don't see much excuse for multiple failures if you really have the drive to do this career...

[quant]

Thx wingo ;)

The original question referred to the theory and no, it's not on your licence but, if an employer asked to see the results letters ...?The original question my have referred to the theory however i was curious about the point and did not want to start another thread. Off course you could always say you lost it?..

I've just asked the chief pilot of my airline and he said that he didn't care about how mant attempts it took to get the atpls however anything more than a second series pass in the IR might concern him alittle if the pilot in question was a 'noobie'.

:ok:

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

The current airline that I work for never asked about passes. However, a couple of airlines most certainly did, three in fact. They were also asking about how many ATPL exams I failed. It was probably more about showing that you can learn from mistakes than to see if you are an ace pilot.